Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindcat7 View Post

On the 3600, do you have to select the surround format from a list or does the button cycle through options. Since I can't read the menus onscreen, I would prefer to cycle, but I guess I could just memorize the list of options since I can see the options box and could probably follow the change of color or whatever indicates which format is detected.

Thanks,

Chris

You have to select the mode from a list. You do have the option to have the reciever automaticaly select the "best audio". That is how I have my avr set, and I really like it.
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post #722 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 05:55 PM
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thanks for all the info. One more question on auto mode. Does it favor Logic 7 over PLII? I've never tried Logic 7, but I've been using PLII over the DTS equivalent on my current reciever. The issues with Logic 7 being forced even over lossless material from BDs was one of the reasons I skipped the last generation. I have a 5.1 setup and only want to use processing to extract 5.1 from soundtracks with fewer channels. If the auto mode works well on the 3600, I will be one happy camper when I finally have it. The less tinkering I have to do with settings the better.

Thanks,

Chris


Quote:
Originally Posted by griffs theater View Post

You have to select the mode from a list. You do have the option to have the reciever automaticaly select the "best audio". That is how I have my avr set, and I really like it.

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post #723 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 07:13 PM
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PROBLEM :

Hi,

I just bought a HK 2600... hooked it up to the following
Polk RM85 system
Sony BDP S570
Sony XBR8

The problem is when I am playing a blu-ray disk (Quantom Solace in this case)... and FF to a different chapter...I get the 2-3 second sound pause.... the screen flickers on and off for a second... then the AVR turns off. (UPDATE: Actually... it happens within 30 seconds of playing anything in the blu ray player... regardless of whether I FF or not)

Any idea why this is happeneing ?

The volume isn't that loud (everything is brand new)
The BDP is hooked into the AVR via HDMI... and there is one HDMI going directly to the TV from the AVR. (...so.... it is a simple, basic connection)

Any help would be appreciated.

Alf
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post #724 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 07:33 PM
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With only 15 watts seperating the two, would there be any sound and/or power difference between the 2600 and 3600? I am coming from a Denon AVR987. My speakes are Infinity Primus 7.0 with Klipsch Sub 12. M Code or anyone that knows these HKs, please chime in. I would appreciate it very much.

Sincerely...

<><

RTR
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post #725 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I think I might have gotten my volume issue resolved. But I have another one. Thanks to all that answered my prev Q.

When I played Dark Knight, I was not able to switch from 2 channel. There were only 3 options. AvR selects the best, Virtual Surr & 2 channel. I could not choose Logic 7 or Dolby PLII modes. Without changing anything, if I popped in a video game disc in the PS3 (slim), it would then show me all the modes. If I then put back the Dark Knight BD, it would show multi-channel PCM and then again go back to 2 channel. The other modes got disabled.

Why can't the other modes be available ? I thought I was able to change the modes for this movie before.

Hi again,

The choice of surround sound options is a function of number of channels, type of input. There are many posts about this and I believe that some of the user manuals have a table in the back that might help you understand these relationships. Your AVR is fine.

Cheers
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post #726 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 09:04 PM
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Is anyone else passing a component signal from a device into the AVR 2600 and then out the AVR 2600 component monitor out to their TV? I have to do this with my Wii and PS3 because my older Sony XBR690 TV only shows a blanks screen when the AVR transcodes the component in to HDMI out.

My issue is with the way I have it hooked up PS3 -> AVR 2600 via component and then AVR 2600 -> TV via component, the picture is severly crushed. The picture is really dark and there is no black detail at all. If I bypass the AVR2600 and hook the PS3 directly to my TV via component, the picture is perfect.

Ive messed with all of the Video modes and they all look just as bad, even Video mode OFF. To me, Video mode OFF should pass the component signal to the TV untouched without any processing.

My HK AVR 250 which is being replaced with the AVR 2600 did not have this issue.

Anyone else experiencing this?
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post #727 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER View Post

With only 15 watts seperating the two, would there be any sound and/or power difference between the 2600 and 3600? I am coming from a Denon AVR987. My speakes are Infinity Primus 7.0 with Klipsch Sub 12. M Code or anyone that knows these HKs, please chime in. I would appreciate it very much.

Sincerely...



The power difference is slight between the 2600 and 3600, major cost differences are related to features such as Zone II and Bridge III being included in the 3600. Also note that the power supplies within the 2600 and 3600 have significantly higher voltage capability than the models they replaced 254/255 and 354/355/3550HD this will deliver harder hitting dynamic power..

Just my $0.01..
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post #728 of 2839 Old 03-11-2010, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

The power difference is slight between the 2600 and 3600, major cost differences are related to features such as Zone II and Bridge III being included in the 3600. Also note that the power supplies within the 2600 and 3600 have significantly higher voltage capability than the models they replaced 254/255 and 354/355/3550HD this will deliver harder hitting dynamic power..

Just my $0.01..

thanks...I am really considering the 2600. At first I wanted the 3600 but looking at it, they really look identical besides the differences you mentioned that don't have to do with sound or function. I would never use the pre-outs or very rarely the bridge. J&R has a good price for it. Now to bargain with the WAF.

Again...Thanks.

BTW, Is there ANYONE who has had both of these hooked up to your system speakers and compared sound and power? Just curious.

<><

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post #729 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzoom1 View Post

Hi again,

The choice of surround sound options is a function of number of channels, type of input. There are many posts about this and I believe that some of the user manuals have a table in the back that might help you understand these relationships. Your AVR is fine.

Cheers

I will check. I understand that. However, I find it odd that a modern BD like Batman Dark Knight is playing in 2 channel stereo and cannot be changed. I have not updated the fw yet.

Would someone who owns/has Batman Dark Knight mind testing this for me ?
My PS3 displayed Dolby True HD in the info if that helps.
Edit : My setup is 5.0

NOTE : I do not believe its a PS3 setting. When I change the disc to the game, it works. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure it showed Logic 7 the first time I tried it. I am playing this using the DVD input over HDMI.

EDIT : I looked at the appendix in the manual. The source was DVD and its default is Logic 7. I'm pretty sure the SAME BD and input allowed me to change it earlier. Now it does not. I do have TV optical connected and it was playing 2 channel at some point of time (on the TV input). The AVR did correctly detect and enable all surround modes when I popped in a game disc on the same (DVD) HDMI input and player. In case I did not make that point clear earlier.

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post #730 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I will check. I understand that. However, I find it odd that a modern BD like Batman Dark Knight is playing in 2 channel stereo and cannot be changed. I have not updated the fw yet.

Would someone who owns/has Batman Dark Knight mind testing this for me ?
My PS3 displayed Dolby True HD in the info if that helps.

NOTE : I do not believe its a PS3 setting. When I change the disc to the game, it works. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure it showed Logic 7 the first time I tried it. I am playing this using the DVD input over HDMI.

EDIT : I looked at the appendix in the manual. The source was DVD and its default is Logic 7. I'm pretty sure the SAME BD and input allowed me to change it earlier. Now it does not. I do have TV optical connected and it was playing 2 channel at some point of time (on the TV input). The AVR did correctly detect and enable all surround modes when I popped in a game disc on the same (DVD) input and player. In case I did not make that point clear earlier.

I you are connected via optical, you will not get the HD codecs (Dolby TrueHD of DTS Master Audio)

what is your set up? 5.1? or ???

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post #731 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon884 View Post

I you are connected via optical, you will not get the HD codecs (Dolby TrueHD of DTS Master Audio)

what is your set up? 5.1? or ???

As I mentioned earlier, I am connecting VIA HDMI. Not optical. I mentioned optical in case its some weird bug.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I had clarified that part.

I am using a 5.0 setup which I mentioned now.

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post #732 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

As I mentioned earlier, I am connecting VIA HDMI. Not optical. I mentioned optical in case its some weird bug.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I had clarified that part.

I am using a 5.0 setup which I mentioned now.

The core thing to check is whether your version of the PS3 (I believe there are two?) supports bitstreaming audio through HDMI. Some systems do their own internal decoding and trasmit the pre-decoded stream as a PCM multi-channel signal. That's what you're seeing. The AVR needs to receive the raw bitstream in order to decode it as DTS HD Master Audio or DolbyHD etc.

BTW, some BD players don't come with the bitstreaming option enabled by default either, just FYI.

Cheers
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post #733 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

As I mentioned earlier, I am connecting VIA HDMI. Not optical. I mentioned optical in case its some weird bug.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I had clarified that part.

Looks like you did an edit AFTER I responded to your question...

I am using a 5.0 setup which I mentioned now.

If you are connected through HDMI and the AVR is set on Auto select for the source you have the PS3 hooked to, then it is a PS3 setting that needs to be changed. The link below will help.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931796

The Dark Night does play "Dolby TrueHD" correctly from PS3 to the AVR.

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post #734 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 04:06 PM
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Blindcat7. It will favor dd and dts over logic 7. The auto select works great, I'm sure you will agree.
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post #735 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

I will check. I understand that. However, I find it odd that a modern BD like Batman Dark Knight is playing in 2 channel stereo and cannot be changed. I have not updated the fw yet.

Would someone who owns/has Batman Dark Knight mind testing this for me ?
My PS3 displayed Dolby True HD in the info if that helps.
Edit : My setup is 5.0

NOTE : I do not believe its a PS3 setting. When I change the disc to the game, it works. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure it showed Logic 7 the first time I tried it. I am playing this using the DVD input over HDMI.

EDIT : I looked at the appendix in the manual. The source was DVD and its default is Logic 7. I'm pretty sure the SAME BD and input allowed me to change it earlier. Now it does not. I do have TV optical connected and it was playing 2 channel at some point of time (on the TV input). The AVR did correctly detect and enable all surround modes when I popped in a game disc on the same (DVD) HDMI input and player. In case I did not make that point clear earlier.

When i watched the dark night it seems like the movie defaults to 2.1. I had to go into audio options on the disk and select Dolby True HD. Then all was good. Have you tried this? BTW.. My 3600 was set on "best audio".
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post #736 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon884 View Post

If you are connected through HDMI and the AVR is set on Auto select for the source you have the PS3 hooked to, then it is a PS3 setting that needs to be changed. The link below will help.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931796

The Dark Night does play "Dolby TrueHD" correctly from PS3 to the AVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the link you provided View Post

How can I determine what audio (and video) format the PS3 is currently decoding and outputting when playing a Blu-ray Disc?

While playing a disc press the button on the game controller or remote with the triangle icon. This will bring up a 'control panel'. Use the cursor (or arrow) keys to highlight and select the i+ icon and this will display the current audio and video codecs being used and the associated bit rates.

I mentioned above that in doing so my PS3 says its Dolby Digital 5.1 ch 48kHz. I also changed the setting to play Dolby True HD. BOTH these still do not change the AVR.

Please note this sentence : If I eject the BD disc and pop in Uncharted 2 (PS3 game), it enables all the surround sound effect menus/options.

I fail to see why it cannot play 5.1

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post #737 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffs theater View Post

When i watched the dark night it seems like the movie defaults to 2.1. I had to go into audio options on the disk and select Dolby True HD. Then all was good. Have you tried this? BTW.. My 3600 was set on "best audio".

Thanks. Yes I did this. It does display Dolby True HD. If I do not do this, it displays Dolby 5.1.

I do not have a sub. 5.0 setup. BUT, with Uncharted 2, all the options are enabled. I also have the PS3 set to determine the best option. The info on the PS3 shows what the encoding is. It is just that the AVR refuses to accept it FOR THIS BD.

I have not updated the FW. I think its Ver 1.

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post #738 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinadvl View Post

PROBLEM :

Hi,

I just bought a HK 2600... hooked it up to the following
Polk RM85 system
Sony BDP S570
Sony XBR8

The problem is when I am playing a blu-ray disk (Quantom Solace in this case)... and FF to a different chapter...I get the 2-3 second sound pause.... the screen flickers on and off for a second... then the AVR turns off. (UPDATE: Actually... it happens within 30 seconds of playing anything in the blu ray player... regardless of whether I FF or not)

Any idea why this is happeneing ?

The volume isn't that loud (everything is brand new)
The BDP is hooked into the AVR via HDMI... and there is one HDMI going directly to the TV from the AVR. (...so.... it is a simple, basic connection)

Any help would be appreciated.

Alf

It sounds like a "handshake" issue thru HDMI between the blu-ray and the avr. You can try hooking up the blu-ray to the avr using a diffrent connection and see if that helps. I would bet that it would.
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post #739 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 05:24 PM
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OK. I found out that it does display all the modes only if I am playing of the special features of the disc. I tried this with 2 different BD's and they both did the same thing. The moment I go to play the regular movie content of that same disc, it goes back 2 channel.

Maybe with this info, someone can tell me what I need to do ? That PS3 link is too much info.

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post #740 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I started this thread back in September. Still have the 2600. I'm really getting irritated with it though. The problems just keep piling on. No word of any firmware update either. What good is the USB without any updates?
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post #741 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 05:43 PM
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Does anybody know what the warm up delay setting should be set to on the Harmony One? Whenever I start my system up to a diffirent source than it was turned off it doesnt change to the appropriate source. Also, how do I control the Bridge III with the Harmony? thanks
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post #742 of 2839 Old 03-12-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

OK. I found out that it does display all the modes only if I am playing of the special features of the disc. I tried this with 2 different BD's and they both did the same thing. The moment I go to play the regular movie content of that same disc, it goes back 2 channel.

Maybe with this info, someone can tell me what I need to do ? That PS3 link is too much info.

I think I know what is happening with yours. Is your PS3 also hooked up through optical to your TV. Disconnect it. We need to get to the basics to troubleshoot. I don't have your model of HK, but I have the older HK 745. Love the receiver. I also have the first gen PS3 doing internal Linear PCM. If I were to do Linear PCM from PS3 and I am running over optical or if the PS3 thinks that the destination device only supports 2.0 PCM, then it will only output 2.0 PCM. In your audio settings of the PS3, you need to check if PCM 5.1 is selected. If you do auto settings, sometimes, it becomes unchecked. I always do this manually. The reason you are getting full surround in special features and in the games is because they might be doing Dolby Digital 5.1 and not Linear PCM 5.1.
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post #743 of 2839 Old 03-13-2010, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I think I know what is happening with yours. Is your PS3 also hooked up through optical to your TV. Disconnect it. We need to get to the basics to troubleshoot. I don't have your model of HK, but I have the older HK 745. Love the receiver. I also have the first gen PS3 doing internal Linear PCM. If I were to do Linear PCM from PS3 and I am running over optical or if the PS3 thinks that the destination device only supports 2.0 PCM, then it will only output 2.0 PCM. In your audio settings of the PS3, you need to check if PCM 5.1 is selected. If you do auto settings, sometimes, it becomes unchecked. I always do this manually. The reason you are getting full surround in special features and in the games is because they might be doing Dolby Digital 5.1 and not Linear PCM 5.1.

Nope. I know what you're talking about. The PS3 is NOT connected through optical (as well) and neither is the setting on to simultaneously send audio through both. It did show Dolby Digital 5.1 (PS3 info) when playing the regular content but the AVR would show 2 channel. I don't think I pressed PS3 info with special content to see if it said something different. I will check that part.

I'm pretty sure PCM 5.1 was selected on the PS3 as well as a host of other ones. Which is why the special content would play correctly.

I have optical 2 connected on the AVR. I do not know how to play this input yet. If that is interfering with it, it "may" be a bug.

EDIT:
-----
I checked PS3 info when playing special content. It says - get this - Dolby Digital 2 ch 48kHz and the receiver is now enabling other modes

Strangely, the video resolution when playing back special content is also low. Connection is HDMI from PS3 to AVR. And HDMI out from AVR to HDMI in to the TV.

I checked the automatic audio output settings. It has prob all of them listed. DTS, TrueHd, LPCM 2.1,5.1, 7.1, etc etc.
Audio multi-output as I confirmed is OFF and neither is the optical connected to the PS3

Basically, its playing 2 channel (BD movie) when the PS3 is saying 5.1 and its playing 5 channel when the PS is saying 2 channel.
With the game, it works because the game is set to output Dolby PLII


I tested the game where it works. I had set the output format of the game to Dolby PLII. If I set it to LPCM 5.1 for eg, the receiver goes to 2 channel.

Firmware has not been updated. I want to like it but I will return this AVR if I cannot get this resolved. This is an absolute deal breaker. As of now, I am still considering its something I have yet to set correctly.

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post #744 of 2839 Old 03-13-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wongmtz View Post

Does anybody know what the warm up delay setting should be set to on the Harmony One? Whenever I start my system up to a diffirent source than it was turned off it doesnt change to the appropriate source. Also, how do I control the Bridge III with the Harmony? thanks

I use two seconds and it works every time.
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post #745 of 2839 Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon884 View Post

If you are connected through HDMI and the AVR is set on Auto select for the source you have the PS3 hooked to, then it is a PS3 setting that needs to be changed. The link below will help.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=931796

The Dark Night does play "Dolby TrueHD" correctly from PS3 to the AVR.

See post 735 (yours) which contains the pre-edited post. I edited a different portion.
This line : I am playing this using the DVD input over HDMI. I just made it bold.
I also provided some more info just above.

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post #746 of 2839 Old 03-14-2010, 12:10 PM
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i was looking to update my 6 year old onkyo tx-sr700 avr( ..to the hk avr3600) after reading this post i may look elsewhere now...i currently have axiom epic80 home theatre 6.1 setup with 4 ohm towers (everything else 6ohm)....so i need a good amp to drive them....also have ps3 fat for blu-ray/gaming and bell 9200 hi-def pvr (sat) /display optoma 1080i dlp front projector...50/50 music/ hometheatre ...if u guys had a do-over would u still get the avr3600 knowing what u know now?what were your other options?thanks in advance
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post #747 of 2839 Old 03-14-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theskins44 View Post

i was looking to update my 6 year old onkyo tx-sr700 avr( ..to the hk avr3600) after reading this post i may look elsewhere now...i currently have axiom epic80 home theatre 6.1 setup with 4 ohm towers (everything else 6ohm)....so i need a good amp to drive them....also have ps3 fat for blu-ray/gaming and bell 9200 hi-def pvr (sat) /display optoma 1080i dlp front projector...50/50 music/ hometheatre ...if u guys had a do-over would u still get the avr3600 knowing what u know now?what were your other options?thanks in advance

I would definatley keep my avr 3600. It is the best avr I have ever owned. Some people may have some issues with theirs whether it is user error or something more involved, HK's customer support is the best around and they will help you get to the source of your problem (which are almost non-existant). As with most things in life, If you are happy with something, you may tell a couple people about it. But if your not happy or frustrated with something, you will tell everybody you know. With that being said, I wouldn't read thru this thread and make your decision based upon a few people having some minor issues. The avr 3600 is a great reliable power house and I think most people would tell you it is worth every penny.
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post #748 of 2839 Old 03-14-2010, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by theskins44 View Post

i was looking to update my 6 year old onkyo tx-sr700 avr( ..to the hk avr3600) after reading this post i may look elsewhere now...i currently have axiom epic80 home theatre 6.1 setup with 4 ohm towers (everything else 6ohm)....so i need a good amp to drive them....also have ps3 fat for blu-ray/gaming and bell 9200 hi-def pvr (sat) /display optoma 1080i dlp front projector...50/50 music/ hometheatre ...if u guys had a do-over would u still get the avr3600 knowing what u know now?what were your other options?thanks in advance

My AVR 3600 is solid, except for the clipping issue using HDMI bypass. I had the AVR 354 and would certainly not recommend it, but the 3600 seems to be a whole different animal. The only receiver that I would put above it now are the Pioneer SC-25 and SC-27 with ICE power, but then the Pioneers are also more expensive. If you look into any of the AVR threads here, you will find that all have their issues and a lot of it still seems to be HDMI related.

Sean
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post #749 of 2839 Old 03-14-2010, 09:43 PM
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I love my 3600. HDMI cut-out happens but not that often so no big deal. IMHO, avr should be selected per speakers used. Pioneers sounded very different and the HK was the perfect match for my Polk RTiA5 towers.
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post #750 of 2839 Old 03-15-2010, 02:51 PM
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Did you explicitly turn off the sub channel in the 2600's settings? If the reciever is trying to send out a signal to a sub that doesn't exist that might cause some odd quirks. Also, you might check what settings are available on the HK for accepting and processing PCM. I just keep thinking of all of the times I've gotten a new reciever and thought I had a bug and found the problem to be some obscure setting or something so simple that I didn't even think to look for that particular cause. I've read most of your posts on your ordeal, but I can't recall if you've tried switching HDMI cables and inputs. I doubt that is your cause, but it doesn't hurt to check.

All of this is from someone who doesn't yet have his HK, but I can recall reading of issues like this on threads for different recievers from different brands over the past two years as I've been researching for my eventual upgrade and they all seemed to turn out to be a settings problem on the reciever side either in the speaker setup or the HDMI or other settings areas where the reciever is told what kind of signals to expect.

Chris

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Originally Posted by Audiotitis View Post

FWIW, I had done that too. I think I missed saying it. Still did not work. I will have to call HK. Anyway, the game would also be using LPCM (default setting of my PS3) and it works when it sends Dolby PLII. In the game, when I explicitly made it output to Dolby 5.1 (like Dark Knight shows me on my 5.0 setup), it agains enables only 2 channel and the other options are disabled.

Here is my bug theory. The receiver says .../.1 EX-Off when its 5.1. I assume that means the sub is off. I believe in this case, the receiver does not play 5.0 and simply downgrades it to 2 channel.
With Dark Knight, I had to change the default of 5.1 to Dolby True HD. With that option, it still played 2 channel. If the disc had an option for Dolby PLII, I'm pretty certain the other modes would get enabled. I think it has issues with 5.1 decoding.

Thanks for the help. I hope HK will solve it as I'm wary of trying a 2nd AVR and having the same issue.

-----
EDIT : Just called HK support. Based on this call, their level2 support was incredible. Anyway, you guys did say the same thing. I'll try it and edit my posts later.

I need to set Bitstream AND uncheck the 2 channel options on the PS3. I did both but not together. Which I realize in hindsight made no sense, as LPCM would mean the PS3 is deciding what to use. Can't wait to retry it when I'm home.

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