Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 84 - AVS Forum
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post #2491 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Hi

I just got the AVR-3600 as it supports Logic-7 from any stereo or multi-channel source.

However, when I connected my Direct-tv receiver with Optical input, all I can select in surround movie mode is Dolby PLIIx. Why? any ideas?

The 3600 only supports Logic 7 from Stereo sources. not from multi-channel. That is why when running optical from your DVR with your DVR set to output DD or 5.1 you only have PLIIx.
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post #2492 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Hi

I just got the AVR-3600 as it supports Logic-7 from any stereo or multi-channel source.

However, when I connected my Direct-tv receiver with Optical input, all I can select in surround movie mode is Dolby PLIIx. Why? any ideas?

Can't L-PCM be transmitted over optical? -- If that's the case, just change the dish's STB config.
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post #2493 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweaked05 View Post


The 3600 only supports Logic 7 from Stereo sources. not from multi-channel. That is why when running optical from your DVR with your DVR set to output DD or 5.1 you only have PLIIx.

That is not what the owners manual states. The 2600 owners manual states very clearly. Which is why i upgraded from 2600 to 3600.
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post #2494 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

That is not what the owners manual states. The 2600 owners manual states very clearly. Which is why i upgraded from 2600 to 3600.


Be careful..
It has been mentioned many times, the HK brochures, website, operation guides had many errors..

The 3600 uses the same CL49700 audio DSP as the 2600 and has identical surround audio DSP features/capabilities.

Just my $0.02..
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post #2495 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

The 2600 owners manual states very clearly.

What did it say?
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post #2496 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

That is not what the owners manual states. The 2600 owners manual states very clearly. Which is why i upgraded from 2600 to 3600.

If you want to use Logic 7 with multichannel streams, you will need to upgrade to the (discontinued) 7550HD. It can layer Logic 7 onto nearly any multichannel stream, even hi-res 5.1 DTS-HD or TrueHD formats.
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post #2497 of 2839 Old 05-10-2012, 06:54 PM
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If you want to use Logic 7 with multichannel streams, you will need to upgrade to the (discontinued) 7550HD. It can layer Logic 7 onto nearly any multichannel stream, even hi-res 5.1 DTS-HD or TrueHD formats.

---or---

If you want to use Logic 7, you will need to change your tv stb signal to L-PCM (over HDMI). The 26/3600 can convert any stereo or multichannel digital audio source into discrete 5.1 or 7.1 channel Logic 7.
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post #2498 of 2839 Old 05-12-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by designit View Post

If you want to use Logic 7, you will need to change your tv stb signal to L-PCM (over HDMI). The 26/3600 can convert any stereo or multichannel digital audio source into discrete 5.1 or 7.1 channel Logic 7.


With the 2600/3600 (and all other 1, 2 and 3 series HK AVRs to date) Logic 7 is not available with multichannel digital audio. This is a feature reserved for the top-end HK AVRs (AVR 435/635, 4/6/745, 7550) as significantly more processing power is required for the L7 overlay, exceeding the capabilities of the DSPs found in the lower level AVRs.

The 1600 and 2600/3600 can apply Logic 7 to 2.0 PCM (from any digital input) or 2 channel analog for 5.1 or 7.1 sound.

With the source device set to PCM, if it converts a multichannel stream (e.g. 5.1 DD) to 5.1 MPCM, then Logic 7 will still not be available.
If when set to PCM the source device downmixes a multichannel stream to 2.0PCM, Logic 7 could be used however in doing so the source content is being decoded&downmixed to two channels, then re-processed to get them back.
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post #2499 of 2839 Old 05-12-2012, 06:10 PM
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I have a Samsung Bluray player hooked up to my HK 3600 (HDMI connection). What should the display read when I play a Bluray disk? It shows "multi-CH PCM" (AVR is set to "AVR Selects Best Mode" for the surround mode").

When I click on "surround mode" while a disk is playing, my options are:
* Auto Select - AVR Selects Best Mode
* Virtual Surround - For Two Speaker Systems
* Stereo - 2 CH Stereo

Is that correct? Or is my surround not working properly?? Or is it normal that I can't select "Logic 7 Movie" per the explanation above?
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post #2500 of 2839 Old 05-12-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by luciano136 View Post

I have a Samsung Bluray player hooked up to my HK 3600 (HDMI connection). What should the display read when I play a Bluray disk? It shows "multi-CH PCM" (AVR is set to "AVR Selects Best Mode" for the surround mode").

When I click on "surround mode" while a disk is playing, my options are:
* Auto Select - AVR Selects Best Mode
* Virtual Surround - For Two Speaker Systems
* Stereo - 2 CH Stereo

Is that correct? Or is my surround not working properly?? Or is it normal that I can't select "Logic 7 Movie" per the explanation above?

If you are playing a disc that uses a multichannel PCM audio track, then yes you will always see MPCM as the incoming audio format and no other surround modes can be selected besides those listed.

However, if you are seeing the MPCM message while playing any other audio track / surround format (e.g. DTS-HD, TrueHD, DD or DTS) then your disc player is set to output PCM. Change the player's audio output setting from PCM to bitstream native, which will let the AVR decode the surround tracks in their native format. Doing so will also allow other surround modes to be used (which will depend on the source content / format), including modes to create a 7.1 presentation from 5.1 DD+DTS material. In most cases, leaving the AVR surround mode to AVR select best mode will do this automatically if you have a 7.1 speaker configuration.

Once again, L7 including the Movie mode will not be available with a multichannel input signal, be it PCM, DD, DTS, etc. (or a two channel digital format besides PCM, such as 2.0 DD)


In the appendix of your owner's manual there is a table of all the surround modes and with what incoming audio stream/format they are available.
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post #2501 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 07:44 AM
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No offense dRock, I'm talking about TV and the STB. -- Setting your STB to PCM will give you Logic 7 if you want to use it. -- PCM is digital, and I do not believe* any TV STB will send 6 or 8ch PCM... -- So yes, the STB would have to wrap the 6ch DD into 2 before Logic 7 does it's thing. -- Which imo, is the better setup (for me anyway) since it keeps the AVR from freaking out when changing channels, (audio drops etc.)

I can't comment on multichannel pcm because I don't have a device that will send it (bluray etc)... So I'll take your word on all of that..

** does the AVR really display MPCM? or just PCM 48kHz

And for what it's worth, just to share some interesting stuff here: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDat...970x4_PP11.pdf

cheers.
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post #2502 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

No offense dRock, I'm talking about TV and the STB. -- Setting your STB to PCM will give you Logic 7 if you want to use it. -- PCM is digital, and I do not believe* any TV STB will send 6 or 8ch PCM... -- So yes, the STB would have to wrap the 6ch DD into 2 before Logic 7 does it's thing. -- Which imo, is the better setup (for me anyway) since it keeps the AVR from freaking out when changing channels, (audio drops etc.)

I can't comment on multichannel pcm because I don't have a device that will send it (bluray etc)... So I'll take your word on all of that..

** does the AVR really display MPCM? or just PCM 48kHz

And for what it's worth, just to share some interesting stuff here: http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDat...970x4_PP11.pdf

cheers.

What STB do you have?
I would love to get rid of the drop outs when changing channels and between some commercials...

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #2503 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

What STB do you have?
I would love to get rid of the drop outs when changing channels and between some commercials...

HD box from comcast... I'm quite sure all TV STB's are not created equal... But there should be a config option you can access on all of them... (note: this is not the typical config menu one would see in the STB audio config or box setup menus... It's a menu that, as I'll put it, configures the STB at the firmware level)

To access this 'hidden' menu for my box... I have to power off the STB, (AVR and TV still powered on) then from the power off position, hit the menu button on the STB remote. -- will bring up configuration options for the STB itself. -- I then scroll to the hdmi options section and select either "auto , pass-through, or PCM" with another toggle to turn on or off "auto-detect"... -- I choose, PCM and turn off auto-detect.

In addition to that... The STB should also be able to set up what resolution you want to send to the AVR (from the STB) -- The menu really puts it in the form of a question.

"what resolution is your TV able to display"

The selections are:

1080i
720p
720i
480p
480i
-------
1080/30p
1080/24p

by default, all but the 1080 options are set to "yes"...

** HD broadcasts are either in 720p or 1080i

I set all options to "no" except 720p, 1080/30 and 1080/24 are set to "yes" -- You could set 1080i to 'yes' and 720p to 'no' -- but the point being, you only want one resolution going to the AVR. (I've played around with both, & just settled on 720p since it's not interlaced)

Doing this (only keeping 720p selected) prevents the AVR 2600 from doing all kinds of crazyness on the screen... weird green flashes, some pops etc... as the AVR switches from 720p to 1080i depending on what channel you're watching (re: changing channels) or between programming (re: commercials)...

I then configure the AVR to upscale the 720p into 1080p...

Channel changes (in both video and audio) are as smooth as a babies rear end! lol...
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post #2504 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

No offense dRock, I'm talking about TV and the STB. -- Setting your STB to PCM will give you Logic 7 if you want to use it. -- PCM is digital, and I do not believe* any TV STB will send 6 or 8ch PCM... -- So yes, the STB would have to wrap the 6ch DD into 2 before Logic 7 does it's thing. -- Which imo, is the better setup (for me anyway) since it keeps the AVR from freaking out when changing channels, (audio drops etc.)

None taken. My post was only in response to this statement;
Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

The 26/3600 can convert any stereo or multichannel digital audio source into .... Logic 7.

...Was only clarifying to avoid confusion about when and how you can use Logic 7 with the x600s

Quote:

** does the AVR really display MPCM? or just PCM 48kHz

Yes, the AVR will display "multi-CH PCM" on the VFD front panel, as well as the audio format from source box in the source information/source settings popup menu when a multichannel PCM audio stream is being received.

When you just see "PCM" followed by the sampling rate, this is just 2.0 stereo PCM. Nearly all surround modes are available with this audio stream, however options drop sharply once the sampling rate exceeds 96khz.

Quote:
Doing this (only keeping 720p selected) prevents the AVR 2600 from doing all kinds of crazyness on the screen... weird green flashes, some pops etc... as the AVR switches from 720p to 1080i depending on what channel you're watching (re: changing channels) or between programming (re: commercials)...

I then configure the AVR to upscale the 720p into 1080p...

Channel changes (in both video and audio) are as smooth as a babies rear end! lol..

I've experienced similar issues with the x54, x600 and 7550HD AVRs when using HDMI and comcast boxes (Moto DCX3400s). Keeping the boxes forced to a specific resolution helped a lot though I still had occasional dropouts or green flashes as you noted, particularly with the x54 series (which are very HDMI-buggy to start with)

Now I'm just using component cables from the Comcast STBs to my AVRs instead (with optical for audio, resolution fixed @ 1080i with receivers transcoding+upscaling to 1080p on HDMI) which solved all of my problems. Doing so also allowed me to run the STB HDMI out directly to the display for non-surround viewing when desired without having to purchase any splitters/amps (was surprised these STBs kept the component and HDMI outputs active simultaneously at the same res)
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post #2505 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 01:26 PM
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I’m intrigued to know how Logic 7 was working in the 7550HD’s etc… -- As you (and others with other models) have said, Logic 7 could be applied on top of ‘surround-encoded programs’ (or multi-channel programming)… So did Logic 7’s spec. change?… Are the x600’s using some form of L7-lite?… Or were the 7550’s etc. doing the conversion onboard itself, from multi-channel input, down to 2, then back to 6 or 8ch L7?

Both of these quotes were taken from the same white paper: http://www.3dsi.co.za/HarmanKardon/A...0LOGIC%207.pdf

“Logic 7 decoding is a sophisticated surround sound process that creates a 7.1- or 5.1-channel sound field from two-channel recordings”

“Logic 7 processing changes all of that. Originally developed for high-end processors and available exclusively in A/V receivers from Harman Kardon, the Logic 7 modes use proprietary processing techniques to create discrete 5.1 or 7.1 sound fields from stereo and surround-encoded programs”

Which I assume the meaning is: ‘stereo’ = 2ch / and “surround encoded programs” = quad, 6, 8 etc. channel.
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post #2506 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

I’m intrigued to know how Logic 7 was working in the 7550HD’s etc… -- As you (and others with other models) have said, Logic 7 could be applied on top of ‘surround-encoded programs’ (or multi-channel programming)… So did Logic 7’s spec. change?… Are the x600’s using some form of L7-lite?… Or were the 7550’s etc. doing the conversion onboard itself, from multi-channel input, down to 2, then back to 6 or 8ch L7?

Both of these quotes were taken from the same white paper: http://www.3dsi.co.za/HarmanKardon/A...0LOGIC%207.pdf

“Logic 7 decoding is a sophisticated surround sound process that creates a 7.1- or 5.1-channel sound field from two-channel recordings”

“Logic 7 processing changes all of that. Originally developed for high-end processors and available exclusively in A/V receivers from Harman Kardon, the Logic 7 modes use proprietary processing techniques to create discrete 5.1 or 7.1 sound fields from stereo and surround-encoded programs”

Which I assume the meaning is: ‘stereo’ = 2ch / and “surround encoded programs” = quad, 6, 8 etc. channel.


Harman/Kardon AVRs for different generations have had multiple versions of Logic 7..

The most latest and powerful version used by HK & Lexicon was called full process, while the lower AVR segment used a liter version. The full process version required 3x the DSP resources of the lite version. AVRs implementing the full process version were using the TI DAxx processor families while the lite version was using the Cirrus Logic DSPs..

The full process Logic 7, had incredible capabilities and could even overlay a DTS Master Audio 7.1 stream, or post-process a 5.1 SD or HD stream to 7.1. Over the last 10 years HK has marketed well over 2 million AVRs using Logic 7 in various versions....

Just my $0.02...
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post #2507 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

I’m intrigued to know how Logic 7 was working in the 7550HD’s etc… -- As you (and others with other models) have said, Logic 7 could be applied on top of ‘surround-encoded programs’ (or multi-channel programming)… So did Logic 7’s spec. change?… Are the x600’s using some form of L7-lite?… Or were the 7550’s etc. doing the conversion onboard itself, from multi-channel input, down to 2, then back to 6 or 8ch L7?

Both of these quotes were taken from the same white paper: http://www.3dsi.co.za/HarmanKardon/A...0LOGIC%207.pdf

“Logic 7 decoding is a sophisticated surround sound process that creates a 7.1- or 5.1-channel sound field from two-channel recordings”

“Logic 7 processing changes all of that. Originally developed for high-end processors and available exclusively in A/V receivers from Harman Kardon, the Logic 7 modes use proprietary processing techniques to create discrete 5.1 or 7.1 sound fields from stereo and surround-encoded programs”

Which I assume the meaning is: ‘stereo’ = 2ch / and “surround encoded programs” = quad, 6, 8 etc. channel.

That document was released just a couple generations after Logic 7 first appeared in the HK lineup, and is describing L7 as it pertains to the HK AVRs at that time. Like most present-day models, all HK AVRs were only able to apply Logic 7 to stereo analog / 2.0 PCM digital sources because of DSP limitations, as M Code explained above.

The ability to overlay multichannel streams with L7 was limited to the more powerful, higher end Lexicon processors (Logic 7 originated from the Lexicon brand)
This changed with the AVR435/635. Since then "full process" L7 as M Code described has also been available in the AVR x45s, and the 7550. There have been tweaks between each gen and software updates to improve performance and correct bugs.
This full process version is not just for creating discrete surround back channels for a 7.1/7.2 presentation from 5.1 source material, but is layered over a multichannel digital audio stream applying it's own filters and channel steering. The change can be subtle, or dramatic depending on the source material (purists may not like that L7 is altering the presentation)


"Are the x600’s using some form of L7-lite?"
Yes, as M Code described. This includes all L7 equipped 1/2/3 series or pre AVRx35 4/5/6/7 series HK AVRs to date.
Even the more powerful full-process version found in the recent top-end HK models is dumbed-down compared to real-deal found in the late Lexicon processors, which have several user adjustments for the L7 processing


"Which I assume the meaning is: ‘stereo’ = 2ch / and “surround encoded programs” = quad, 6, 8 etc. channel."
It is referring to 2 channel matrix-encoded (Dolby Surround / Pro logic)


Here is an actual Lexicon white paper explaining Logic 7 in detail;
http://www.lexicon.com/downloads/pro...per%202006.pdf
Long read but has some interesting info
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post #2508 of 2839 Old 05-13-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

Here is an actual Lexicon white paper explaining Logic 7 in detail; http://www.lexicon.com/downloads/pro...per%202006.pdf
Long read but has some interesting info

Yes, I judge the length of reading material by the number of knocks I get on the bathroom door from my wife... LOL

This should be interesting to say the least..

Thanks guys.
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post #2509 of 2839 Old 05-14-2012, 11:32 AM
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This may sound like a strange question, but I think I saw a reference to this a while back;
In "2 Channel Stereo" mode does the AVR still use the subwoofer crossover point that is defined in speaker setup?
I was running some REW sweeps last night to check my room's bass response using the front panel analog left channel input and the 3600 set to "2 channel stereo" mode so that only the sub and left front speaker would be working. The graphs seem to show pretty significant bass beyond 80hz - so I thought I would check.

-Aaron
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post #2510 of 2839 Old 05-14-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

In "2 Channel Stereo" mode does the AVR still use the subwoofer crossover point that is defined in speaker setup?

Yes, the speaker crossover points / bass management is used when the AVR is in 2 channel stereo mode.
In 2 channel stereo bypass the front speakers will be full range.
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post #2511 of 2839 Old 05-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post


Yes, the speaker crossover points / bass management is used when the AVR is in 2 channel stereo mode.
In 2 channel stereo bypass the front speakers will be full range.

I thought it would be - but my graphs made me wonder.
Hmmm...

-Aaron
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post #2512 of 2839 Old 05-14-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post


HD box from comcast... I'm quite sure all TV STB's are not created equal... But there should be a config option you can access on all of them... (note: this is not the typical config menu one would see in the STB audio config or box setup menus... It's a menu that, as I'll put it, configures the STB at the firmware level)

To access this 'hidden' menu for my box... I have to power off the STB, (AVR and TV still powered on) then from the power off position, hit the menu button on the STB remote. -- will bring up configuration options for the STB itself. -- I then scroll to the hdmi options section and select either "auto , pass-through, or PCM" with another toggle to turn on or off "auto-detect"... -- I choose, PCM and turn off auto-detect.

In addition to that... The STB should also be able to set up what resolution you want to send to the AVR (from the STB) -- The menu really puts it in the form of a question.

"what resolution is your TV able to display"

The selections are:

1080i
720p
720i
480p
480i
-------
1080/30p
1080/24p

by default, all but the 1080 options are set to "yes"...

** HD broadcasts are either in 720p or 1080i

I set all options to "no" except 720p, 1080/30 and 1080/24 are set to "yes" -- You could set 1080i to 'yes' and 720p to 'no' -- but the point being, you only want one resolution going to the AVR. (I've played around with both, & just settled on 720p since it's not interlaced)

Doing this (only keeping 720p selected) prevents the AVR 2600 from doing all kinds of crazyness on the screen... weird green flashes, some pops etc... as the AVR switches from 720p to 1080i depending on what channel you're watching (re: changing channels) or between programming (re: commercials)...

I then configure the AVR to upscale the 720p into 1080p...

Channel changes (in both video and audio) are as smooth as a babies rear end! lol...

Thank you for this!!
I was able to access the "hidden" menu on mine

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #2513 of 2839 Old 05-15-2012, 08:00 AM
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Does anyone know under what conditions the coax digital out port on an AVR3600 would be outputting audio? I wanted to use it to feed an Amp for speakers in another room but it is not live. The instructions are not entirely clear (to me) on this either. Instructions say:

...only PCM digital audio signals are available for recording. Both coaxial and
optical digital audio signals are available at this Digital Audio Output
....

called HK and they said I would need to have audio coming in from either one of the coax inputs or optical input to have sound come out from the coax output, however, I have audio coming in from a Mac mini through toslink into Optical1 which I believe is PCM and still no audio comes out of coax audio out port. Cable comes in through HDMI so perhaps that audio will never be available for output through the coax audio out. Havent tried to from coax audio on cable box yet to see if that works because 1)I don't have the right cable to try this and 2)don't want to lose HDMI for TV audio as it will be lower quality.

Have been using the Left-Right pre-outs into the Amp to drive a pair of speakers in the adjoining room but I get no dialog as that is all directed to center channel. Wanted to use coax digital out into a DAC that will mix the sound back into Left-Right.
Thanks.
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post #2514 of 2839 Old 05-15-2012, 09:09 PM
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I have an AVR 3600. Is the only sub crossover setting the automatic 100hz setting? If so, and I want to set it at 80 via my subwoof crossover, what effect will that have on the crossover slope? Should i just leave it alone and set my sub crossover to bypass? I like 80 better because 100 hz can be slightly boomy.
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post #2515 of 2839 Old 05-15-2012, 09:41 PM
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Only saw your response now. Thank you for the explanation!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

If you are playing a disc that uses a multichannel PCM audio track, then yes you will always see MPCM as the incoming audio format and no other surround modes can be selected besides those listed.

However, if you are seeing the MPCM message while playing any other audio track / surround format (e.g. DTS-HD, TrueHD, DD or DTS) then your disc player is set to output PCM. Change the player's audio output setting from PCM to bitstream native, which will let the AVR decode the surround tracks in their native format. Doing so will also allow other surround modes to be used (which will depend on the source content / format), including modes to create a 7.1 presentation from 5.1 DD+DTS material. In most cases, leaving the AVR surround mode to AVR select best mode will do this automatically if you have a 7.1 speaker configuration.

Once again, L7 including the Movie mode will not be available with a multichannel input signal, be it PCM, DD, DTS, etc. (or a two channel digital format besides PCM, such as 2.0 DD)


In the appendix of your owner's manual there is a table of all the surround modes and with what incoming audio stream/format they are available.

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post #2516 of 2839 Old 05-16-2012, 09:56 PM
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I've been playing with REW to set some filters for my subwoofer... and in the process I noticed that the crossover on the 3600 doesn't appear to do much!

I have the crossover set to 80hz... here is a graph of the subwoofer alone - I assume that above 80hz I should not see anything - but... that isn't the case.


Doing just the speaker I got this:


Something doesn't look right about this... any thoughts?

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #2517 of 2839 Old 05-17-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

What did it say?

"Surround yourself with superior Logic 7® (5.1 and 7.1) sound.
Offering a universal multichannel sound solution for your movies, music and games on either 5.1-channel or 7.1-channel sound systems, harman kardon® Logic 7® processing takes original recordings (from stereo or any other source material) and transforms them with proprietary algorithms all our own."

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Pr...PID=AVR%203600
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post #2518 of 2839 Old 05-17-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

"Surround yourself with superior Logic 7® (5.1 and 7.1) sound.
Offering a universal multichannel sound solution for your movies, music and games on either 5.1-channel or 7.1-channel sound systems, harman kardon® Logic 7® processing takes original recordings (from stereo or any other source material) and transforms them with proprietary algorithms all our own."

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Pr...PID=AVR%203600

Yeah, it’s sad the general population has allowed itself to be dumbed down with deliberate and relentless attacks on common sense, with ‘vague’ being used as the catalyst. – you know:

Yes = no
Right = wrong
Wrong = right
Fresh = rotten
Bad = good

And “any other source material” = stereo (or 2 channel source material)

Others point to errors in documents, and while that is true with most any publication, it’s pretty clear that what was said on that page was exactly how it was 'intended' to be worded.

I hear ya… It is misleading at best… But buyer beware I suppose… I (like most of you) can’t count the days worth of hours I’ll spend in reading up on something when I have a specific requirement or question about a product before I buy it. -- I'd still bet the 2600 PCB area for pre outs (as in the 3600) is the same as the 3600 -- and those circuits are live, only lacking the RCA headers. (love to find out, but can't find any pictures of the 3600 inside) -- anyone care to share?

But L7-lite in the x600's does a pretty nice job with 2ch feeds IMO. -- at least it's not a Yamaha... lol. (j/k)
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post #2519 of 2839 Old 05-17-2012, 12:57 PM
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Even with this misleading information, I have decided to keep my 3600 with me for 2 reasons:

1. I already sold off my AVR-2600 for a decent price locally @ craigslist.
2. The AVR-3600 sound is definitely better than the 2600 when playing Dolby Prologic IIx movie. I don't know why. With the 2600 when I switched to Dolby PLIIx movie mode, the sound level would drop as well as sound a bit muffled. Not so with the 3600. The sound remains sharp & clear.
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post #2520 of 2839 Old 05-17-2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

The AVR-3600 sound is definitely better than the 2600 when playing Dolby Prologic IIx movie. I don't know why. With the 2600 when I switched to Dolby PLIIx movie mode, the sound level would drop as well as sound a bit muffled. Not so with the 3600. The sound remains sharp & clear.

Huh? -- I don't believe* there's anything different between the two (besides the obvious specs...? You sure crossovers, levels, distance, tone, lfe trim, the 2 Dolby volume settings, etc. and maybe a need to processor reset, weren't the issue?
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