Official Harman Kardon AVR 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread - Page 86 - AVS Forum
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post #2551 of 2839 Old 06-07-2012, 08:48 PM
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Some subs have a remote, mine does.

guitarman - i also was unhappy with the lack of bass coming from my mains in 2 channel stereo (mains + lfe for bass management). so i reset the system, disconnected the sub, ran the ezset/eq without the sub. then connected my sub and manually set the crossover. much happier now. can't tell you why this would occur with my mains set to large for full range, but 2 channel music sounded horrible before i did all that. running forte ii's as my mains.
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post #2552 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 01:14 PM
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I had those II's and setting them say 10" from the wall they would have great bass. I haven't ran the EZ set, mainly becuase I found with a Onkyo 608 I didn't like Audessey it sounded thin and dry. Tuning manually gave a much better sound but still no where near what I'm hearing on the AVR-3600.

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post #2553 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

"setup" button >> speaker setup >> manual setup >> number of speakers >> subwoofer [off]... -- is the only option...
unless your sub has a remote of it's own?... (which doesn't exist, or you wouldn't be walking to it...)... just sayin.
b.t.w... if you're programming (tuning) something with the sub off -- vs. "on"... = something in your settings is out-a-wack.. ?

Thanks I had a feeling I'd have to go through some changes each time I wanted to hear music. An Arcam I have here sets the sub off when you hit stereo, plus it make the fronts full band at the same time. That's the way I prefer music.

I like the idea of the direct mode for better sound the 3600 has.

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post #2554 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 01:32 PM
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I'm gonna have to try running EZset/EQ with no sub and see if that really helps the bass output from my 604's. Thanks for posting that. I'll let you all know if I have similar results.
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post #2555 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 02:13 PM
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It's good you can turn off the EZQ EQ settings if you want, makes it easy to do a A/B. My first tuning is manual DB meter at 75db everything flat accept the sub where Doctor HSU recomends putting the sub at +3. I put all the speakers at 80hz THX.

That setup sounds pretty good I'll have to try EZQ but I don't think I'll like it.

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post #2556 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 09:50 PM
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I have Klipsch RC-25, RB-25, and RS -25 and have been using a AVR 635 for the last 6 years. Decided to 'upgrade' to a Denon AVR 2312CI and just don't seem very happy with it no matter how much 'tweaking' I do but looking at the Harmon Kardon line up it seems as though they don't offer very high end receivers anymore or maybe I am mistaken. Any suggestions on getting rid of the Denon and replacing it with a new HK as the AVR 635 doesn't have any HDMI inputs. Anyone think HK and the Klipsh is a good match or any other receiver suggestions? Thanks!

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post #2557 of 2839 Old 06-08-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

I have Klipsch RC-25, RB-25, and RS -25 and have been using a AVR 635 for the last 6 years. Decided to 'upgrade' to a Denon AVR 2312CI and just don't seem very happy with it no matter how much 'tweaking' I do but looking at the Harmon Kardon line up it seems as though they don't offer very high end receivers anymore or maybe I am mistaken. Any suggestions on getting rid of the Denon and replacing it with a new HK as the AVR 635 doesn't have any HDMI inputs. Anyone think HK and the Klipsh is a good match or any other receiver suggestions? Thanks!

The latest HK AVRs series 50 products should be a good match for the Klipsch...
They utilize the same amplifier topology as previous HK AVRs but traded off some of its high-current capability for more dynamic headroom power..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #2558 of 2839 Old 06-09-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

It's good you can turn off the EZQ EQ settings if you want, makes it easy to do a A/B. My first tuning is manual DB meter at 75db everything flat accept the sub where Doctor HSU recomends putting the sub at +3. I put all the speakers at 80hz THX.
That setup sounds pretty good I'll have to try EZQ but I don't think I'll like it.

It seems that the ezq has some issues or maybe I just have a defective unit. Processor reset, then ezset eq always works. Could also be that I run Klipsch speakers and the horn tweeters and mid's throw off the setup. Everytime I change speakers or speaker positions, I have to fully reset the unit, then re-run the ezq for it to sound right. I use the eq for tv/movies and no eq/tone controls for music or gaming.

Is Direct Mode different than just setting to 2 channel, turning off eq/tone controls and maybe turning off the sub? If it is, I don't know it and would love to know - would be nice if it was a one button thing versus all those changes.
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post #2559 of 2839 Old 06-09-2012, 11:01 PM
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I ran the ezq for the first time. Good and bad, it seems it think I need more treble probably because of the full carpeting. I like what it did there, but it put my sub up way too high so I lowered it to the analog method. Also it set my crossovers to full for the center and 80hz for the fronts, Didn't think that was right with the Reference Paradigm Fronts so I made the fronts full also. All in in I'm liking the sound better now due to the treble gain ezq offered. It takes some tweaking though.

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post #2560 of 2839 Old 06-10-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by reisb View Post

So I figured I'd try turning on the AVR only first.


Turned it on (no TV, no DirecTv). It went into protect and turned off. Turned back on and it's fine.


AVR is plugged directly to a UPS. Maybe UPS is going bad? It keeps Tv, D* box, and AVR on if unplugged from outlet...

Anyone have any ideas? This happens first time I turn my receiver on almost every time. Even without turning on TV or Dtv box.
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post #2561 of 2839 Old 06-10-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designit View Post

Seven-Channel Surround Modes:

Power per Individual Channel

Front L & R channels:

65 Watts per channel

@

Center channel:

65 Watts @

Surround (L & R Side, L & R Back) channels:

65 Watts per channel

@

I assumed the op was asking this... But then again, what do I know... -- I like 7 channel stereo HK style... lol.
Be careful how you read the wattage specs on newer HKs. Unfortunately many of the manuals and cut sheets were loaded with mistakes and conflicting information.
That wattage spec (65wpc) is correct for the 2600 per individual channel, however this is only while two channels are being powered. The spec for the AVR 3600 is 80wpc, 2 channels driven. The OP's question of "all channels driven" is referring to HK's former traditional method of rating their AVRs with all channels simultaneously being driven continuously 20hz-20khz into 8ohms @<.07%THD.
HK stopped rating AVRs in this fashion with the AVR 354 and following. Like their predecessors, the 354, x550s and x600s are still rated continuously driven 20hz-20khz into 8ohms @<.07THD, but with 2 channels being powered rather than all.
The new x650 models stray a bit further, with the wattage ratings taken at a higher distortion (<.09%) and as I am told not a "continuously driven" rating, rather a peak rating of some sort. Bench tests show the new models are still potent AVRs, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAQS View Post

Is Direct Mode different than just setting to 2 channel, turning off eq/tone controls and maybe turning off the sub? If it is, I don't know it and would love to know - would be nice if it was a one button thing versus all those changes.
Are you referring to the 6/8 channel "Direct" inputs? Or by direct do you mean the 2 channel stereo analog bypass mode?
Using the 6/8 channel inputs would be direct analog audio to the amps, just as using an analog stereo input and having EQ+Tone OFF with Stereo bypass as surround mode as I posted earlier. However, with the 6/8 channel input you can also supply direct audio to the SL/SR/SBL/SBR channels where as analog stereo bypass is 2 channel FL/FR only.

To use the analog stereo bypass mode you don't have to change the speaker settings / sub. Select 2 channel stereo under the stereo surround mode group. Turn EQ and Tone Control off (Dolby Volume will then be unavailable/grayed out). The AVR should now display the bypass mode as the current surround mode. Remember this only works when using a 2 channel stereo analog input.

If you don't feel like turning EQ+Tone off everytime you want analog direct, just program another source input for the device (e.g. Aux, or Media Server). Remember to use the stereo analog input as the audio input from source. Choose the 2 channel stereo surround mode, and leave EQ/Tone/DV always off. Then anytime you want direct stereo analog from that device, just switch to the new programmed source and you will be listening to the same content in 2 channel stereo bypass with 1 button press on the remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

He better leave the subwoofer wire in if running that test. Turning an amp on with no speakers the amp has no gate the power will run to infinity, bye bye amp.
AFAIK this only applies to tube amplifiers.
Turning on the AVR with no signal / no load should not damage the output transistors or transformer, and is also how HK specifies the idle current/voltage (which is preset by factory) be set after nearly a half hour of warm-up time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reisb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by reisb View Post

So I figured I'd try turning on the AVR only first.


Turned it on (no TV, no DirecTv). It went into protect and turned off. Turned back on and it's fine.


AVR is plugged directly to a UPS. Maybe UPS is going bad? It keeps Tv, D* box, and AVR on if unplugged from outlet...
Anyone have any ideas? This happens first time I turn my receiver on almost every time. Even without turning on TV or Dtv box.
Did you try my suggestion posted earlier? This should help you isolate the problem to a source device, connection or internal AVR fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post



Unlikely the UPS can cause this, though it certainly will not hurt to test unit plugged directly into an outlet/strip/etc first.


If you notice the same behavior, disconnect all the speaker wires from the AVR then try power up. There could be a small wire strand shorting across.

If still no change, disconnect anything connected to the channel preout(s), sub included!!

If this still has no effect, disconnect any remaining cords from the unit except power. Power on unit. If unit repeats "protect" shutdown symptom, AVR is faulty and will have to be serviced or exchanged.

You can try a processor reset though this type of error/failure indicates a hardware fault.



While you are able to turn the unit back on and have it functional, the problem (be it a faulty cord, short, or internal failure) is likely to just get worse until corrected.
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post #2562 of 2839 Old 06-10-2012, 09:27 PM
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The audioholics guys rated the avr3600 at more like 105 watts. It definitely has more power than I need, turn it way up it still sounds clear and great by the way. Time for me to unload my Arcam and Onkyo this is the sound I was looking for with the video capabilities needed.

Yeah I'm from tube amplifiers, Fishers for music. They're gone now and I feel fine with the HK for warm tones that don't hurt the ears. I have my Rega Planar hooked up to it and it's great. I still listen to records.

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post #2563 of 2839 Old 06-12-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

Bench tests show the new models are still potent AVRs, though.

Hmm...

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post #2564 of 2839 Old 06-16-2012, 01:32 AM
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Hey fellas, I have an avr2600 and ran into a problem.How do I use the default audio decoder such as DTS HD Master Audio instead ofa dsp such as Logic 7. i don't want post processing to bluray audio, I just want to listen to it natively. When I go to surround modes while in a bluray (star wars) it only allows me to select dts 6, logic 7 and some dolby dsp, how do I get the receiver to use the plain
Original audio track in surround mode without processing, or does it not work that way? Also does the 2600's logic 7 properly retain discreet channels for say 6.1 dts master audio when used? Or is it limited due to not being a 3600? Thanks in advance for your wisdom.
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post #2565 of 2839 Old 06-16-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ultra5711 View Post

How do I use the default audio decoder such as DTS HD Master Audio instead ofa dsp such as Logic 7.

You'll need to access the players audio setup section and select Bitstream (uncompressed) or = (see your blu-ray manual)... I assume you're using HDMI to carry A+V...
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post #2566 of 2839 Old 06-17-2012, 11:14 AM
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Hello,
I have an AVR 2600. In addition to my TV, DVD player, and cable box I also have an apple TV hooked up.  I'd like to hook up a pair of outdoor speakers in zone 2 and  i have a few questions for you experts:

1) can I use an outdoor volume knob to control the zone 2 volume?
2) can I access the apple tv for both the indoor and outdoor speakers, and just the outdoor speakers?
3) can I change the volume of both?
4) can I hook up another apple tv, or airport express so that I can control the outdoor speakers my the remote iPhone app?

Thank you so much 
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post #2567 of 2839 Old 06-18-2012, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldberg View Post

Hello,
I have an AVR 2600. In addition to my TV, DVD player, and cable box I also have an apple TV hooked up.  I'd like to hook up a pair of outdoor speakers in zone 2 and  i have a few questions for you experts:
1) can I use an outdoor volume knob to control the zone 2 volume?
Yes. I've had an AVR254, the 2600's predecessor, setup this way (impedance matching volume control/8ohm speakers outside) without issue. Keep the 2600's Zone2 volume level up higher, use the external volume control to actually set the volume level (though the AVR Z2 volume control can be left at fixed level and used as a limit/max, and can always be lowered from inside to reduce level outside whenever desired / don't feel like walking outside)

Remember, you will be using what was the surround back channels to power the outdoor speakers - so main zone limited to 5.1

Note: The Zone2 speakers are being powered by the AVR and it's power supply. As the 2600/3600 do not have a dual secondary style power supply such as their predecessors, demanding material/speakers/volume level in Zone2 will also affect the peak performance capability of all channels in Zone1, and vice versa. This is of little concern under normal circumstances / operation.

BTW: If you can mount the volume controller in a shaded or covered area, you may want to consider a model with built-in IR sensor/repeater system to send commands back to the AVR to change sources and for playback control of other IR controlled sources.
Quote:
2) can I access the apple tv for both the indoor and outdoor speakers, and just the outdoor speakers?
Zone 2 is limited to analog L/R stereo audio sources.
If using an original Apple TV, use the analog RCA connections to receiver for the Zone 2 audio source. The main room source can remain HDMI or Optical/Coax.

If using a newer Apple TV with digital-only outputs, you will need an adapter such as this from Monoprice to convert the digital Optical/Toslink output to stereo analog;
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=6884&seq=1&format=2
*Apple TV's output must be 2.0 PCM (digital stereo)
Again, main room can remain HDMI

With the stereo analog connection made, use the source setup/settings menu to select this new analog connection as the Zone2 audio source for whatever source selection you are using for the Apple TV .

Zone2 can use an analog stereo audio input regardless of what is going on in the main room (including -off-, only Zone2 on)


Quote:
3) can I change the volume of both?
Yes, AVR's Zone 2 volume control is independent of main room. Use remote and slide selector to Zone 2, then use remote volume control buttons to adjust Zone2 volume. Or if using the external control as mentioned earlier, just use that for Zone2 volume.
Use the remote (set to zone1) or AVR volume knob to control main room volume as before.

As the apple tv is being used as a shared source device for both zones, changes to it's volume output will affect both zones.
If you use the Apple TV's volume control (older versions), the level will be cut in both zones equally. When using airplay, reducing volume from streaming device iphone/ipod/ipad will also cut volume level in both zones equally.
Quote:
4) can I hook up another apple tv, or airport express so that I can control the outdoor speakers my the remote iPhone app?
Thank you so much 
You will be able to use the remote app with just the one apple tv, however of course the content and controls will be the same in both zones if both zones are using the same Apple TV as the source.

Zone 2 volume level will ultimately be controlled by AVR and/or your optional external volume control. Though remote app's volume control (when/where applicable) can always be used to REDUCE volume level without touching AVR Zone2 volume and/or an external volume control. I would recommend to just use the external/outdoor volume controller only, however.

If you want to be able to have different audio streams playing in each zone, then yes you will need more than one source device (or a multi-stream source device, such as a media server). If you want to stream content from a different Apple device in each zone, another apple tv or airport express will be needed and used as another AVR source input.
Remember the AVR 2600's Zone2 is limited to analog stereo analog, so a new Apple TV will require an adapter such as that linked earlier. The Airport express has analog audio output ,no third-party adapter required.
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post #2568 of 2839 Old 06-20-2012, 08:30 PM
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How do I get tv sound through the AVR 3600?

Example: I have a tv with built in Netflix, Vudu, Hulu etc. but I cant figure out how to push the sound through the receiver. I tried pluging a HDMI cable from the tv to input 4, but i get no sound. I set the tv to "external speaker", but that doesn't work either.
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post #2569 of 2839 Old 06-20-2012, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacstaco View Post

How do I get tv sound through the AVR 3600?
Example: I have a tv with built in Netflix, Vudu, Hulu etc. but I cant figure out how to push the sound through the receiver. I tried pluging a HDMI cable from the tv to input 4, but i get no sound. I set the tv to "external speaker", but that doesn't work either.

Hi isaacstaco, connect an optical cable from tv "Digital Auddio Output" to receiver optical input.
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post #2570 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 04:56 PM
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Hi isaacstaco, connect an optical cable from tv "Digital Auddio Output" to receiver optical input.

Or HDMI out from cable box or satellite box to AVR3600, then out of AVR3600 to TV
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post #2571 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reisb View Post

Or HDMI out from cable box or satellite box to AVR3600, then out of AVR3600 to TV

Hi reisb, +1 but the OP is asking about tv internet apps.
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post #2572 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

The latest HK AVRs series 50 products should be a good match for the Klipsch...
They utilize the same amplifier topology as previous HK AVRs but traded off some of its high-current capability for more dynamic headroom power..
Just my $0.02... wink.gif

Thanks. Would you say the new receivers are as well built as the 635? The 635 weighs over 40lbs for 75w x 7. The best HK now weighs significantly less.

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post #2573 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

Thanks. Would you say the new receivers are as well built as the 635? The 635 weighs over 40lbs for 75w x 7. The best HK now weighs significantly less.
Amp-wise, the 635 is a much beefier unit, making 75wpc (8ohm, 20hz-20kz, <.07%THD) with ALL of it's seven channels being driven continuously. The new 3650 will make around half that under the same conditions. ....But remember you are comparing what was a top-end 6 series HK to a "mid level" 3 series (although there is nothing higher at the moment) It's not really a fair comparison.
If you are using power-hungry, low sensitivity loudspeakers (especially if 4ohm and/or running full range), this would be a concern when it comes time to "crank it"
If you are using high sensitivity, efficient, 8ohm speakers crossed over - don't get too hung up on it.

The 3650 obviously crushes the 635 with newer technology. Nice HD GUI, HDMI w/ 3D and ARC support, DTS-HD/TrueHD, PLIIz, Dolby Volume, Internet radio, Network playback, etc.
It also won't end up with a floppy front panel door like that which plagued the 4/6 x30, x35, and x45s. The new AVR design is also very sharp looking, though I was fond of the old ones as well.

One note, unlike the 2650/3650 (and all other 1/2/3 series HKs to date) the 635 was capable of post-processing/layering Logic 7 over 5.1 streams. If this is a must for you, then you will need to stick with one of the 6 or 7 series models which succeeded the 635 - such as the (discontinued) 7550HD (which offers nearly all of the modern technologies found on the current 3650, but on the same chassis and a bit more powerful than your old 635 - along with the higher end features that were on it and successors)
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post #2574 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

Amp-wise, the 635 is a much beefier unit, making 75wpc (8ohm, 20hz-20kz, <.07%THD) with ALL of it's seven channels being driven continuously. The new 3650 will make around half that under the same conditions. ....But remember you are comparing what was a top-end 6 series HK to a "mid level" 3 series (although there is nothing higher at the moment) It's not really a fair comparison.
If you are using power-hungry, low sensitivity loudspeakers (especially if 4ohm and/or running full range), this would be a concern when it comes time to "crank it"
If you are using high sensitivity, efficient, 8ohm speakers crossed over - don't get too hung up on it.
The 3650 obviously crushes the 635 with newer technology. Nice HD GUI, HDMI w/ 3D and ARC support, DTS-HD/TrueHD, PLIIz, Dolby Volume, Internet radio, Network playback, etc.
It also won't end up with a floppy front panel door like that which plagued the 4/6 x30, x35, and x45s. The new AVR design is also very sharp looking, though I was fond of the old ones as well.
One note, unlike the 2650/3650 (and all other 1/2/3 series HKs to date) the 635 was capable of post-processing/layering Logic 7 over 5.1 streams. If this is a must for you, then you will need to stick with one of the 6 or 7 series models which succeeded the 635 - such as the (discontinued) 7550HD (which offers nearly all of the modern technologies found on the current 3650, but on the same chassis and a bit more powerful than your old 635 - along with the higher end features that were on it and successors)

Thanks. Is HK basically out of the high end receiver game? I am looking at the Onko 818 and 3009 and wish I had a comparable HK to consider.

Jutter is gone..zipadeedoodah zipadeeday!!!
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post #2575 of 2839 Old 06-21-2012, 06:49 PM
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I don't have the connections or contacts like some of our more industry-informed members to answer that (read: M Code wink.gif ) I think the "high end" receiver market as a whole is dwindling rapidly in favor of more profitable and successful entry-mid level models.
I can tell you that while having several discussions with top-level HCG support last year on unrelated matter, I asked and was told that there were mentions of a new flagship HK AVR in development. Whether this came to fruition and is still being developed, or the project was canned before it even started, I don't know. New HK AVRs are on the horizon for next year, so the HK fans can only hope!
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post #2576 of 2839 Old 06-22-2012, 05:21 PM
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When do we expect new HK models?

Jutter is gone..zipadeedoodah zipadeeday!!!
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post #2577 of 2839 Old 06-22-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dRockHK View Post

I don't have the connections or contacts like some of our more industry-informed members to answer that (read: M Code wink.gif ) I think the "high end" receiver market as a whole is dwindling rapidly in favor of more profitable and successful entry-mid level models.
I can tell you that while having several discussions with top-level HCG support last year on unrelated matter, I asked and was told that there were mentions of a new flagship HK AVR in development. Whether this came to fruition and is still being developed, or the project was canned before it even started, I don't know. New HK AVRs are on the horizon for next year, so the HK fans can only hope!

Hmmm.. biggrin.gif
As dRockHK stated the high end AVR segment is contracting..
Several reasons...
The primary ones being the crappy global economy and the point that the primary AVR brands are stuffing more into their mid-line AVRs while they face off with one another @ Amazon (internet sellers) and Best Buy/Magnolias (brick & mortar stores) in various price wars to gain market share..

Regarding Harman International they have several interesting things under development for their higher end brands such as ML, Revel, Lexicon, Crown, JBL Synthesis....
For the lower positioned, more mass market oriented segment covered by Harman/Kardon they will focus more on the mid-AVRs and down.. But these will not be available until 2013..
Though there are some very interesting, innovative proprietary audio algorithm developments done for their high end brands that could drift down into HK..
It really depends upon the direction of their revised consumer management team and distribution strategy, as the key members of the ole HK team has moved on to bigger & better things or retired..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #2578 of 2839 Old 06-28-2012, 07:54 PM
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Hi isaacstaco, connect an optical cable from tv "Digital Auddio Output" to receiver optical input.
Thanks. This ended up working, but how come I cant get audio through the HDMI?
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post #2579 of 2839 Old 06-29-2012, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by isaacstaco View Post

Thanks. This ended up working, but how come I cant get audio through the HDMI?

Because the 2600 doesn't support Audio Return Channel (ARC).
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post #2580 of 2839 Old 07-01-2012, 03:59 PM
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Hey guys -

I recently moved and had to switch to comcast. They supplied a motorola dvr, model number rng200n. When the dvr is connected directly to the TV, there are no issues. When the dvr is connected to the 2600 and then out to the tv, I get either no signal or choppy video/sound. This wasn't happening 2 days ago in my last apartment with a time warner dvr.

Have there been issues with the 2600's hdmi out? Should I try component out? Do I lose any functionality making that switch?

Thank you. Sorry if this is a repeat.

I should also note that the 2600 is approximately 2 years old and has never been updated.

Thanks
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