Marantz SR6004/SR5004 Owners' Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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IMPORTANT UPDATE - PLEASE READ BELOW BEFORE BUYING

MARANTZ SR6004 AND SR5004 POP OF DEATH

IMPORTANT UPDATE: MARANTZ HAS ALLEGEDLY SAID THE THAT SURROUND, CLEAR, AND EXIT RESET AFTER A POD CAN VOID THE WARRANTY

Numerous 5004 and 6004 owners both in North America, Asia, Australia and Europe have reported complete and inexplicable failure of the units with exact same POP of DEATH. Most of the failed units do so within the first 30 days, but others have reported POPs of DEATH after nearly four months of use. There is a poll tracking the failures and timing here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1199061






Marantz introduced the SR6004 in early September 2009. It is the successor to the SR6003, offering the upgraded features of Dolby PLIIz processing, an extra HDMI input (total of 4), Bluetooth connectivity, Audyssey Dynamic Volume and EQ, and 10 more watts per channel.



The player shares its chassis with its little brother the SR5004. THe SR5004 only has three hdmi inputs one output (compared to the second HDMI output of the 6004). The 6004 also has the Bluetooth adapter standard and a front-mounted USB port to stream MP3s. The front fascia is also concealed on the 6004. The remote of the 6004 also has an LCD screen.



The SR6004 retails for $1,249.
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post #2 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz increased the stated wattage per channel to 110 watts from 100 watts in the SR6003. Marantz has a reputation for rather conservative power ratings. The linked article from Sound and Vision shows the performance of the 6003 well exceeded the stated power: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...ics-page2.html.

I am currently comparing the Marantz SR6004 to the Onkyo TX NR807 and the Denon AVR-2310CI. It's a bit of a lop-sided fight in that the onkyo is rated at 135 watts per channel and the Denon at 105 watts. That said, the Marantz performs very admirably compared to the 807 despite the 807's higher stated power and weight (29lbs vs the Onkyo's near 40lbs). The Marantz delivers a bit more refined of a sound - case in point, I was watching a scene in Mad Men via optical and comparing the two. Subtle sounds like someone turning the pages of a paper or typing on a typewriter had a bit more detail in A/B comparison with the Marantz. The Onkyo's THX modes bring out a bit more thud, which sounds louder and more aggressive, but I found the Marantz a bit more realistic.

Music was a bit clearer. The Onkyo seemed to offer similar performance in regard to bass and lows, but the Marantz had a bit fuller sound on mids. All of this is subjective, but found the Marantz a bit warmer in listening to the Kings of Leon's newest. The vocals simply had a little bit more range and fullness to them. The Onkyo is no slouch - I would subjectively give the Marantz a 9 and the Onkyo an 8. I am afraid the Denon was not as pleasant in music listening. It sounded a bit tinny or bright and seemed to lack some of the grunt that the Onkyo had.
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post #3 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Using S&M's synthetic test disc, notably the racecar tests, here are the deinterlacing results using source direct from a bd player and letting the receivers do the work:

Test Denon AVR-2310ci Pioneer KuroOnkyo TX NR1007 Onkyo TX NR807 Onkyo TX NR906 Marantz SR6004
ABT 2010 Unknown Farjouda DCDi Cinema Farjouda DCDi Cinema Reon HQV VX I Chips
2:02 Pass Fail Fail Fail PENDING N/A**
2:2:2:4 Pass* Pass* Pass* Pass* N/A**
2:3:2:3 (PF-T) Pass Pass* Pass* Pass* N/A**
2:3:2:3 Pass pass* Pass Pass N/A**
2:3:3:2 Pass* Pass* Pass* Pass* N/A**
3:2:3:2:2 Pass Fail Fail Fail N/A**
5:05 Pass Marginal Fail Fail N/A**
6:04 Pass Marginal Fail Fail N/A**
8:7:8:7 Pass Pass Fail Fail N/A**
24p - pass Pass Pass Pass Pass N/A**
Time-adjusted Pass Fail Fail Fail N/A**
Ship Jaggies Pass Marginal Marginal Marginal N/A**

* denotes lock-on in second sequence
**Receiver lacks ability to scale digital signals
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post #4 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz's remote is well laid out and largely logical in its placement of buttons and their relationship to each other. It is back light via a side-mounted toggle button.

In respects of programming, one limitation in my opinion is the preset codes are locked according to type of source. If you want to label a secondary BD player as CD for example, only CD codes are available and you must manually program the remote via the learning feature. The learning feature is superior to both Denon and Onkyo. It allows you to hold the learning function open for programming indefinitely. This cuts down time significantly and is superior to Onkyo where you must manually turn on the learning feature with each button. That said, Onkyo offers a really cool feature on the higher xx7 models that allows for remote programming via typing in the manufacturer and type. This is industry-leading in my opinion.
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post #5 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz takes a bit of a purist's approach in a very competitive landscape. They offer fewer HDMI inputs, less snazzy GUIs, non-brand name video chipset, and aren't quite pushing the feature envelope the way Onkyo or Denon do. It has the basic features in my opinion: audyssey multieq, dynamic volume, and dolby pliiz with adequate hdmi inputs to deal with most setups. I get the feeling this receiver is not marketed to the folks with gaming systems and the alike that have the need for the six hdmi inputs an onkyo would provide.

In regard to style, Marantz is hands down one of the most attractive receivers out there. Its curved design is as unique as its pleasing to the eye. While I do not mind the boxy, angular look of the Onkyos, they do not stand out or "look" the part despite their featureset and cost.

The remote is similar to Onkyo's, but you can tell is focused more on critical audio listening than universality. What do I mean by that? It has preset buttons for basic functions like tone control and audyssey settings that do not appear on the Onkyo. The latest Onkyo remote is reflective of Onkyo's push for featureset with pre-programmed macro buttons that turn all devices off or pre-set My Movie or My Music components. These are nice and very wife friendly, but it does lack quick-linked buttosn for audyssey manipulation and things audiophiles might be more concerned with.

update: 9/26/09

After playing with my new onkyo TX NR1007 (which I incedentally bought for the same price as the Marantz SSR6004), I have been very much impressed with the capablity of the Onkyo. Although some redbook cds might sound a hair better on the Marantz, the Onkyo is more versatile. more powerful, and brings a lot of fun into the equation with its 9 amps. I think the more I compare the two, the more likely I would opt for the Onkyo again provided I had a room that would showcase its 9 amp capability. Smaller rooms and setups needing less power would work well for the Marantz.
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post #6 of 1706 Old 09-14-2009, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Why opt for the 6004 over the 5004?
The 6004 offers more power - 90W vs 110W per channel. The 6004 also offers an additional HDMI input (total of four) and additional HDMI output (total of 2) for folks with two displays. It should be noted that the HDMI output is not a true repeater; only one output can be chosen at a time. The 6004 comes with the Bluetooth/IR extender for streaming music from bluetooth enabled devices like an iphone. This is an accessory that is available separate from the 5004. The 6004 has one additional optical input as well (total of three).

How warm does the unit run?
The unit runs warm, but not as hot as the Onkyo 807 (which is uncomfortable to leave your hand atop after about 30 minutes of use), but not as cool as the Denon 2310. The Marantz appears to run the hottest at the back left over the component and composite video inputs (which I am not using). The Onkyo runs the hottest in the rear right over the hdmi board. It is safe to say, I would not recommend putting anything directly above the 6004 because of the heat it generates.

What does the GUI look like?
The GUI is rather simple and limited. It is not available overlaid over hdmi video sources; sound is available, but you must exist the video screen. The HDMI handshake is a bit rough and I noticed it produced a strange quilted color screen prior to the guide (alternating of light green or khaki color). Things like volume and info also cannot be overlaid via hdmi.

The GUI itself is a simple blue blackground with white lettering. It allows you to assign inputs in a common table similar to denon's gui. One can rename any input using a very easy to view screen of letters and numbers (much superior to Denon's painful scrolling). There are resolution adjustments assignable by input and to effect either or both hdmi and analogue (if you are running parallel connections with component). You also have the choice of enabling or disabling the i/p scaler as well. I have everything set to pass through, which did not effect colorspace, colors or resolution in my testing. You can manually set distances, speaker size, and crossovers to LFE. Missing is Onkyo's assignment of crossovers per speaker.

When is Audssey active and when is it not? What about bitstreaming lossless codecs?
From p38 of 6004 manual, Audyssey is not always active. Most importantly, it is not when you are internally decoding lossless codecs. If you decode externally and send via LPCM (ie in your player), then Audyssey is maintained. This is the desirable route regardless if you want to take advantage of secondary audio tracks. Marantz reps claim this is to retain the purism of the lossless codec; my personal belief is it is a hardware limitation in respects of the number of DSPs.

From the manual:

• “Audyssey Front”, “Audyssey Flat” and
“Audyssey” can be selected after executing the
Auto Setup feature.
• If a speaker that was determined “No” in Auto
Setup is manually turned on, the “Audyssey”,
“Audyssey Front” and “Audyssey Flat” modes
cannot be selected.
• If, after auto setup was performed, changes were made
to the settings, such as the speaker confi guration and
distance, channel levels and crossover frequencies,
without increasing the number of speakers whose
characteristics were measured, “*” will be displayed
for the name of the mode.
Example: “Audyssey Flat*”
• The equalizer turns off when the Pure Direct
mode, Source Direct mode, Dolby Headphone or
Virtual mode is set.
• Acoustic EQ Modes are not used during playback
of Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, or DTSHD
signals.
Even in this case, settings made using Speaker
Auto Setup (speaker yes/no, distance, size,
channel level, crossover) are enabled.
• Tone Control is disabled when an EQ Mode is in
use.

There are two schools of thought on the Audyssey limitation. The official word from Marantz is the Audyssey processing inadverntantly degrades the quality of the lossless audio. According to dealers and Marantz reps, they actively made the decision not to apply it as it is more in-line with Marantz's belief that processing is generally degrading (this is evidenced on their video side as well in things like display, which even thx recommend you do not use). Another theory is it is simply a hardware limitation and there are not enough DSPs to handle both the decoding and Audyssey. Marantz's answer is you have the choice of PCM with Audyssey or lossless via bitstream without any manipulation. Speaker levels, distances, and configurations are still in effect.

How does its Featureset Compare to Other Competitors?
Marantz is rather basic in its featureset (not really a brand name video, no Audyssey DSX and limited number of HDMI). It's really differentiating factor is Blue Tooth and USB playback to a lesser extent. Marantz's strength is in quality audio playback. As I mentioned earlier, it is not as bright as a denon or as dim as Onkyo's THX processing modes can create.
Click on this link for detailed comparison specs: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1173185
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post #7 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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It is hard to see in these pics, but the display color is a bit different between the two. The 7004 is a bit bluer, the 6004 is a bit whiter.

Attachment 152652

Attachment 152653
LL
LL
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post #8 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
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Thanks for the comparison of these popular receivers Winston...I appreciate the time you're taking to offer this info. In your comparisons do you have Audyssey engaged? If so are you using the Audyssey or flat setting (if available - I've heard flat is not an option with some Onkyos)? Which mode are you using for music (stereo, PLII, etc.)?
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post #9 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_w View Post

Thanks for the comparison of these popular receivers Winston...I appreciate the time you're taking to offer this info. In your comparisons do you have Audyssey engaged? If so are you using the Audyssey or flat setting (if available - I've heard flat is not an option with some Onkyos)? Which mode are you using for music (stereo, PLII, etc.)?

I did two comparisons - turning Audyssey off and then using the settings it automatically provides without manipulation save changing my fronts to small (or in the Onkyo's case setting crossovers to 80hz from full range to match the settings in the Marantz).

Onkyo does not have a flat setting as well visible in the menus, but I think you can opt for it (as I have read).

My two cents is the Marantz offers a slightly more refined sound. The Onkyo has more thud and splash, but the Marantz offers more detailed dialogue and vibrant character to music.
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post #10 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 09:14 AM
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Thanks. It's sounding like the Denon is out and you are down to the Onkyo and Marantz...will you be keeping one of them?
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post #11 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_w View Post

Thanks. It's sounding like the Denon is out and you are down to the Onkyo and Marantz...will you be keeping one of them?

In a perfect world, I would have the video processing of the Denon, the Sound quality and style of Marantz, and the featureset of Onkyo. And yes, the Denon will likely get the boot.
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post #12 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 09:29 AM
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Any plans on trying height speakers?
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post #13 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_w View Post

Any plans on trying height speakers?

Forgot to mention - my layout is 5.1 plus two in-ceiling height speakers (sonance thx certified).
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post #14 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Forgot to mention - my layout is 5.1 plus two in-ceiling height speakers (sonance thx certified).

Two more questions and then I'll stop bothering you Winston...

1. If you've played with it at all I'd like your thoughts on the height channels.

2. I've read a couple complaints on the 6003's remote performance (poor performance off-axis) - any issues with the 6004 remote signal?
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post #15 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 10:59 AM
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hi winston,

thanks for your review. but what i am missing is the comparsion between dsx height (onkyo) and dolby iiz (marantz).
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post #16 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_w View Post

Two more questions and then I'll stop bothering you Winston...

1. If you've played with it at all I'd like your thoughts on the height channels.

2. I've read a couple complaints on the 6003's remote performance (poor performance off-axis) - any issues with the 6004 remote signal?

1. height presence's (in respects of dolby pro-logic IIz processing) effect depends on source material. I like it for action movies, but find it displeasing for music listening. It adds value, but candidly think it's rare where you really get a lot of spatial separation to gain value over running parallel fronts.
2. 6004 remote works great - no issues at all best i can tell.
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post #17 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taubenspikes View Post

hi winston,

thanks for your review. but what i am missing is the comparsion between dsx height (onkyo) and dolby iiz (marantz).

have not played with the dsx height on the onkyo yet. I might move it into a room where i can try a dsx wide set up.
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post #18 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 01:49 PM
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I don't suppose you have (or know anyone with) an iPhone. I'm interested in the BT capabilities of the receiver and was wondering if the 1st generation iPhone is supported (non-3G/S).

Thanks for the great review, keep it coming.
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post #19 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valkyrie View Post

I don't suppose you have (or know anyone with) an iPhone. I'm interested in the BT capabilities of the receiver and was wondering if the 1st generation iPhone is supported (non-3G/S).

Thanks for the great review, keep it coming.

my wife has a 3G. haven't tried to hook it up. To be honest, I did not get time to fool with the bluetooth deal that much. I was able to get it to synch to my home computer, but did not investigate further.
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post #20 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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if there are any other 6004 owners, i am curious to hear about the transition to the menu and hdmi handshake. trying to confirm it's specific to my pioneer kuro or universal
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post #21 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 03:37 PM
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sounds like a nice receiver...wish they made a pre/pro like that with a few more features....but I'm sure this unit sounds great!

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would I be getting better results with multiEQ XT, or is a subtle difference from this unit's multiEQ (no XT)???

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Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

would I be getting better results with multiEQ XT, or is a subtle difference from this unit's multiEQ (no XT)???

number of factors could impact the difference...i would say more incremental, but other folks might disagree.
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post #24 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Music was a bit clearer. The Onkyo seemed to offer similar performance in regard to bass and lows, but the Marantz had a bit fuller sound on mids. All of this is subjective, but found the Marantz a bit warmer in listening to the Kings of Leon's newest. The vocals simply had a little bit more range and fullness to them. The Onkyo is no slouch - I would subjectively give the Marantz a 9 and the Onkyo an 8. I am afraid the Denon was not as pleasant in music listening. It sounded a bit tinny or bright and seemed to lack some of the grunt that the Onkyo had.

Winston,

How would you describe music in 2 channel mode (w/ sub) with Audyssey on for the Onkyo and with the 'Flat' curve chosen for the Marantz?

I've been thinking of getting an Onkyo but not being able to set Audyssey to Flat in 2ch/stereo mode sort of bothers me because of the slight high-frequency roll-off in the default setting Onkyo uses. I have no experience with Onkyo or Audyssey, so who knows, maybe I wouldn't be bothered by it if I actually heard one in person. Still, I'd like to hear some other opinions on the difference.

Thanks

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post #25 of 1706 Old 09-15-2009, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsandvb View Post

Winston,

How would you describe music in 2 channel mode (w/ sub) with Audyssey on for the Onkyo and with the 'Flat' curve chosen for the Marantz?

I've been thinking of getting an Onkyo but not being able to set Audyssey to Flat in 2ch/stereo mode sort of bothers me because of the slight high-frequency roll-off in the default setting Onkyo uses. I have no experience with Onkyo or Audyssey, so who knows, maybe I wouldn't be bothered by it if I actually heard one in person. Still, I'd like to hear some other opinions on the difference.

Thanks

the marantz gives you an option of audyssey, audyssey front and audyssey flat. The onkyo does not give you these options. my preference is flat but i have the marantz in a small room that is not very deep.

per audyssey:

What target curves does MultEQ use?
Contrary to popular belief, a target curve that is flat from 20 Hz to 20 kHz is not always the one that will produce the correct sound. There are several reasons for this including the fact that loudspeakers are much more directional at high frequencies than they are at low frequencies. This means that the balance of direct and room sound is very different at the high and low ends of the frequency spectrum.

The Audyssey target curve setting makes the appropriate correction at high frequencies to alleviate this problem. A slight roll-off is introduced that restores the balance between direct and reflected sound.

The Flat setting uses the MultEQ filters in the same way as the Audyssey curve, but it does not apply a high frequency roll-off. This setting is appropriate for very small or highly treated rooms in which the listener is seated quite close to the loudspeakers. It is also recommended for all rooms when the receiver is in THX processing mode. This allows THX re-equalization to operate exactly as it was intended.

The Front setting uses the MultEQ filters that were calculated for the entire listening area, but it does not apply any filtering to the front left and right loudspeakers. The average measured response from the front left and right loudspeakers is used as the target curve for the remaining loudspeakers in the system. The subwoofer in this case is equalized to flat as is the case for all the settings described above.
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post #26 of 1706 Old 09-16-2009, 02:55 AM
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Hi, Winston, thanks for the review.

Does the Audyssey can be applied to lossless audio (bitstream to the SR6004) now? (The SR6003 can't.)

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post #27 of 1706 Old 09-16-2009, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

Hi, Winston, thanks for the review.

Does the Audyssey can be applied to lossless audio (bitstream to the SR6004) now? (The SR6003 can't.)

Only if the lossless codecs are sent via lpcm.
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post #28 of 1706 Old 09-16-2009, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mpyw View Post

Hi, Winston, thanks for the review.

Does the Audyssey can be applied to lossless audio (bitstream to the SR6004) now? (The SR6003 can't.)

I'll add this to the FAQ
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post #29 of 1706 Old 09-16-2009, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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FAQ updated
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post #30 of 1706 Old 09-16-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

[b]You can manually set distances, speaker size, and crossovers to LFE. Missing is Onkyo's assignment of crossovers per speaker.

So the crossover point is global for all speakers on the Marantz? I believe the Denon also has the ability to set different crossover points for each speaker group (front, center surround, rear surround)...correct?
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