*Official* Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23THX Owners Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3529 Old 11-24-2009, 04:58 PM
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Are these the only differences between the 21 vs 23?

21 has:
PQLS on only 2 channel where 23 has it on multi channel
2 zone vs. 3 zone
4 hdmi vs 4 + 1 on front
1 hdmi out vs. 2 hdmi out

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "

Sony 55EX500 Settings
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post #632 of 3529 Old 11-24-2009, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburbs View Post

Are these the only differences between the 21 vs 23?

21 has:
PQLS on only 2 channel where 23 has it on multi channel
2 zone vs. 3 zone
4 hdmi vs 4 + 1 on front
1 hdmi out vs. 2 hdmi out

That's it beside a slightly different front panel layout.

Tony B
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post #633 of 3529 Old 11-24-2009, 08:47 PM
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let me first say that the last time i went shopping for stereo equipment was 1998. basically,the cheapest sony receiver available and a set of low end !jbl 3 ways. i only replaced the sony once since then with another comparable. thats about as far as my understanding of whats available went,back then. so my preception of how it is supposed to work now a days may be a little dated and limited. although my knowledge of the basic set ups have expanded somewhat since i got my first PC. my conscience of it is still very "end-user". i have slowly migrated to using the pc as a multimedia hub. but i still cant get used to the idea of a 2 way speaker with no built in subwoofer. knowing how to set it up and knowing what components to get are two different things. as we all know the golden rules. i know im missing something but what it is i cant narrow down.

i am primarily concerned with music playback and not movie soundtracks. what my set up is missing is,when i turn it up,all i get is blare or distortion. i have been around a few good systems in my day and one thing was always for sure,no matter how loud it was it still sounded as good as if it were at a moderate level. my dad had a real nice 2 ch set up,with a weighted volume knob you could spin and was very responsive. unlike the new ones you gotta "turn half way up before you get any sound". my set up is more like,rather than a wall of sound its more like its coming over a PA. perhaps i misconstrued about what a "loud speaker" is supposed to do. but loudspeakers seem to be the only thing available in my price range. the sound is very thin,there is just no depth to it. sorta like the difference with the onk 607 in direct mode the sound is very flat but in stereo mode some depth kicks in seems a lil more solid and airy. maybe one good way to describe it is the sound is not very dense(like me). there is just not that old faithful solid base of sound. no depth,no weight. no sonic density. no fullness.

my set up is im playing flac files from an external WD HD with foobar. foobar is configured to run my sound cards native asio with asio4all channeled through the digital output. the card is c-media b enspirer. the PC is a compaq sr2180nx. s/pidf out with a belkin optical. to the onk 607 (cd)optical in. stereo mode.with the audyssey set up only with the speaker level adjusted for balance. out to the cf-50's and a polk psw 111 sub. i originally had the speakers "bi amped" but energy dose'nt recommend the set up. and everything ive read says thats not true bi amp. so now ive got them set up with the jumpers and one set of banana plugs. to the low posts from the onk main terminals. a lil eq with foobar i keep the volume at about 50%. keep the onk at about 50. and the pc digital output volume at 100%. if i turn up the volume with foobar or onk the outcome is the same. thank you very much for the response.
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post #634 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelln79 View Post

I have the VSX-23TXH. I am unable to get the TV to output HDMI to a Samsung FPT5084 50". The system will not pass through system menus or a Mac Mini.

Additionally I am unable to get the Pioneer to pass any Optical Out out from the an Apple Mac Mini or newer MacBook Pro laptop.

Optical Out from an Xbox 360 does work for audio.

Any suggestions or known issues with using a Mac.

Can't comment on passing DVI/HDMI from the Mini through the AVR as I connect mine directly to my panel. Clearly the potential for problems exists, given the different signals involved, but I believe some Pioneer AVR owners are doing this successfully. Perhaps more information on your connections would help.

However, I have had no problem with the optical audio connection from my Mini to either a VSX-01 or an SC-07. There seems to be no reason to believe it wouldn't work with your VSX-23 as well. You might want to go into your Mac's System Preferences > Sound menu to be sure your Mac is sending a digital audio signal.
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post #635 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 10:01 AM
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xsony... if you can break that down into paragraphs, i'll take a shot at it...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #636 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

xsony... if you can break that down into paragraphs, i'll take a shot at it...

LOL. I had the same thought, but just gave it a pass instead. Spaces between sentences would help too.
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post #637 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelln79 View Post

Here is a more concise break down...

---SNIP---

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm new to these forums and not sure what else to try. I tried calling Pioneer but they said they are closed for training.

Sorry, I can only sympathize. I had similar problems with my Panasonic SA-XR57, but somehow, running the audio through an optical cable to the Panny, it solved itself...

Maybe you wanna trade your 23 for my (5 year old) Panasonic?

Seriously, I was thinking of replacing the Panasonic with a VSX21, but now you've got me wondering...
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post #638 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelln79 View Post

I finally got Digital Audio Out (optical) to work on the receiver from the Mac, tracked this down to a possibly faulty cable (though it works on the Xbox 360), I've been told that the Mac is more vulnerable to flakey optical audio cables.

I hadn't heard that, but have experienced it. I could get no sound through one optical cable from my Mini, switched to another and all was well. Meanwhile, the first one works fine with something else. I attributed it to "one of those things" and never gave it a second thought until you mentioned this.

Quote:


I still am unable to get any HDMI signal out of the Elite to my TV (Samsung FPT5084 50") though. This goes for on screen menus and DVI > HDMI from the Mini. It's as if the receiver just never sees a TV there or something.

I know the receiver is in some part working as the Mac flashes blue and the receiver name can even be seen in Display prefs as an output device (I have mirroring setup)

I have a hunch you have already tried this, but the first two culprits I'd investigate are the HDMI cable and the output you are using from the AVR to the TV. I'd test the first by connecting the Mini directly to the TV to see if that works. (If it did, I'd probably leave it that way, but that's just me. I did it that way from the start.)

If the cable is okay, then I'd try the other output to see if that is the problem. If you have the option, you might try various combinations of outputs on the AVR with different inputs on the TV.

I can understand the possibility that the AVR might not pass computer RGB signals (or have an HDCP issue with them) but not that you get no setup menu. That, at least, should work. If you haven't already, you might try to see if that works with the Mini disconnected from the AVR. Kinda grasping at straws there.

Are you using the same input on the Samsung for both video and computer signals? If you are, it might be confusing the TV. Try separate inputs. Since you don't seem to be using it, you might try turning Video Conversion off, as Pioneer has suggested doing that will solve some problems. (More straws. )

Hopefully, someone else has tried this the way you did and can offer some insight.

Quote:


I tried calling Pioneer but they said they are closed for training.

Well, that's frustrating, but also encouraging. Judging by some of the posts on this forum, they need it!
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post #639 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 01:58 PM
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Is it OK for me to mix 3 front JAMO speakers rated at 6 ohms, with two surround energy speakers rated at 8ohms on my vsx-21? Is there a setting that allows that?
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post #640 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 05:00 PM
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I just got an XM radio tuner for my VSX 23 and the volume is considerably louder when I switch to that input (so much so that it startles people in the room until I lower it.) Is there a way to adjust this so the volume level is more consistent with other inputs? I know I can set a max volume, but that's obviously not what I want. Any help appreciated. Thanks.
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post #641 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I hadn't heard that, but have experienced it. I could get no sound through one optical cable from my Mini, switched to another and all was well. Meanwhile, the first one works fine with something else. I attributed it to "one of those things" and never gave it a second thought until you mentioned this.

i personally haven't had it happen to me, but while helping someone get their mbp setup via pm's, we tore our hair out (well, she did, i don't have much left to tear out ) trying to get it to work, until she swapped out the cable...

similar to the other poster's experience, the "bad" cable worked with something else... so i think there's something to the "sensitive to flaky cables" theory...

ymmv...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #642 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i personally haven't had it happen to me, but while helping someone get their mbp setup via pm's, we tore our hair out (well, she did, i don't have much left to tear out ) trying to get it to work, until she swapped out the cable...

similar to the other poster's experience, the "bad" cable worked with something else... so i think there's something to the "sensitive to flaky cables" theory...

ymmv...

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately the XM dock comes with its own cable so no swapping.
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post #643 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 08:40 PM
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^^^

that response was in reference to macs... cables wouldn't cause something to be "louder" or "less loud"...

i wouldn't be surprised if the xm was "louder"... ime with my sirius tuners, they are always appear to be hotter than everything else... probably because all the dynamic range has been squeezed out of the signal...

i don't believe you can set volume level by input on the 23, but someone will correct me if i'm wrong... only solution i can think of is to reduce the volume before you switch to the xm source...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #644 of 3529 Old 11-25-2009, 08:57 PM
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Sorry. Quoted the wrong post. But I suspect you're right. It's the one additional feature I wish this receiver had....

If anyone knows a workaround, please let me know.
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post #645 of 3529 Old 11-26-2009, 11:21 PM
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My equipment has different volume levels too.
I have a Harmony One remote and I have it programmed to lower the volume from 10 to 20 steps (depending on the source) when an activity is exited.
Not the most elegant solution but it keeps us from getting blasted.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #646 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 01:00 AM
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Will the VSX-21TXH be capable of driving B&W CM series speakers without an amp?
I'm looking at CM1, CM5 or CM7's.
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post #647 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 10:40 AM
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Hello
Can't find if this was answered.....if so, please point me to it....otherwise here goes.
I have the VSX-21TXH and want to hook up my MAC BOOK PRO using a DVI to HDMI converter. How do I assign an optical out from the MBP into the VSX-21TXH using an optical OUT CABLE??? I can get sound without Video or Video without Sound. If I tell HDMI through the sound comes out of the TV, but I can not seem to find the proper setting for both Sound through AMP's 5.1 Speakers and TV. If I unplug DVI / HDMI cable the sound comes through Speakers with HDMI set to AMP....once DVI/HDMI cable is plugged back in the SOUND goes away unless I change HDMI audio setting to through - but then it comes to TV...I want it to come out of the amp!
Thanks
Art
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post #648 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormeye View Post

Will the VSX-21TXH be capable of driving B&W CM series speakers without an amp?
I'm looking at CM1, CM5 or CM7's.

Definitely in a 5.1 or 7.1 system. For stereo, you may need the SC-25 to be happy unless you only have a 2.1 setup (as you can biamp the channels in the setup menu). Now I am 53, half deaf and it's all just my opinion. I know a 23 drives my CDM 7NT's and center very well in a 5.1 system and stereo with good stuff like SACD.

Tony B
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post #649 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormeye View Post

Will the VSX-21TXH be capable of driving B&W CM series speakers without an amp?
I'm looking at CM1, CM5 or CM7's.

Pioneer and B&Ws sound very nice together.. no worries,
The CM 5 and 7s series are rated at 88db sensitivity (the CM8 is slightly higher and the CM1 is slightly less) with recommended receiver power of 30 to 150 watts @ 8 ohms.. the VSX21 should handle that easily.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/displa...nfid=816&sc=ht

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post #650 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amattiel View Post

Hello
Can't find if this was answered.....if so, please point me to it....otherwise here goes.
I have the VSX-21TXH and want to hook up my MAC BOOK PRO using a DVI to HDMI converter. How do I assign an optical out from the MBP into the VSX-21TXH using an optical OUT CABLE??? I can get sound without Video or Video without Sound. If I tell HDMI through the sound comes out of the TV, but I can not seem to find the proper setting for both Sound through AMP's 5.1 Speakers and TV. If I unplug DVI / HDMI cable the sound comes through Speakers with HDMI set to AMP....once DVI/HDMI cable is plugged back in the SOUND goes away unless I change HDMI audio setting to through - but then it comes to TV...I want it to come out of the amp!
Thanks
Art

Page 43 and 44 in the manual detail how to do this.
KURO Link must be turned off or the audio assignments won't be available.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #651 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

Page 43 and 44 in the manual detail how to do this.
KURO Link must be turned off or the audio assignments won't be available.

Hi - We (my son and I) have been trying to figure this out for a few hours....we have went over pages 43 / 44 and read and re-read the book many times. Is there something specific.....we turned Kuro Link off and we have a optical cable coming out of the MAC BOOK PRO in to the OPTICAL 1 port tv/sat - the MBP has a DVI to HDMI convertor and we have that going into HDMI 3. Then in SETUP as per PAGES 43/44 we assigned the following:
TV/SAT INOUT SET UP (we changed name to MAC-SETUP)
INPUT SKIP to OFF
DIGITAL IN to OPT-1
HDMI INPUT to INPUT-3
COMPONENT off
12V TRIGGER 1 and 2 OFF

As I mentioned- the sound comes through SPEAKERS of AMP when Video isn't plugged in....once DVI/HDMI is plugged in all goes quiet unless we changed HDMI to THROUGH....
What are we missing!?
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post #652 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 02:25 PM
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^^^

you need to use "signal select" to tell the avr to get the audio from the optical input... when you have a device connected by hdmi and you have the avr on "amp", it "assumes" that the audio is coming over the hdmi input unless you tell it otherwise...

see page 61 of the manual to find the button on the remote to do this...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #653 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 02:45 PM
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Hi - WOW! Thanks so much! That did it! If either of you guys are in NYC ping me at AMATTIEL@gmail.com and I will meet you for a STARBUCKS CAWFEE!!! Thanks!
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post #654 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 03:04 PM
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you are welcome... glad you got it straightened out...

next time i'm in the city, maybe i'll take you up on that...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #655 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 07:14 PM
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Sorry for the referring you to bad instructions amattiel.
Good save Chris, I will try to remember this for future reference.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #656 of 3529 Old 11-27-2009, 08:48 PM
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Well, just got my new VSX-23 all hooked-up and will declare the operation a "partial success." Actually, it probably went a little better than I expected. The only problem I'm still having is when trying to send video from a Motorola DVR (model DCT6412/2005), via its DVI output, into the receiver's HDMI1(or 2 or 3...) port.

I've used several different DVI-to-HDMI cables with the same result: a combination of no video, flickering partial video and an occasional error message stating that my display's H/D signal has been compromised and that I should use component video instead (I'm paraphrasing). The audio is fine (via coax). I can go straight into my projector using the same DVI-to-HDMI cables with no issues. I guess this is the dreaded HDMI handshaking issue?

I'd appreciate any input before admitting defeat and switching over to the DVR's component outputs!
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post #657 of 3529 Old 11-28-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

Sorry for the referring you to bad instructions amattiel.
Good save Chris, I will try to remember this for future reference.

you had the first part right... he did need to turn off kurolink in order to assign the optical input to the hdmi input...

don't kick yourself... if i had a nickel for every time i only gave incomplete information, i'd have a big stack of nickels...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #658 of 3529 Old 11-28-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog951 View Post

Well, just got my new VSX-23 all hooked-up and will declare the operation a "partial success." Actually, it probably went a little better than I expected. The only problem I'm still having is when trying to send video from a Motorola DVR (model DCT6412/2005), via its DVI output, into the receiver's HDMI1(or 2 or 3...) port.

I've used several different DVI-to-HDMI cables with the same result: a combination of no video, flickering partial video and an occasional error message stating that my display's H/D signal has been compromised and that I should use component video instead (I'm paraphrasing). The audio is fine (via coax). I can go straight into my projector using the same DVI-to-HDMI cables with no issues. I guess this is the dreaded HDMI handshaking issue?

I'd appreciate any input before admitting defeat and switching over to the DVR's component outputs!

yup. sure is. doesn't sound like the dvr likes a repeater in the middle. not unusual.

admit "stalemate" (not defeat ) and hook up with component...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #659 of 3529 Old 11-28-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yup. sure is. doesn't sound like the dvr likes a repeater in the middle. not unusual.

admit "stalemate" (not defeat ) and hook up with component...

Thanks for that info! I'd done some intense googling before posting the question and found several references to problems similar to mine, but pretty much nothing about fixing the issue. What was strange to me is that almost all the info returned was several years old. I'd think that as more people were getting their hands on HDMI-capable receivers, that more people would be running into this problem. Maybe my backwards local Comcast are the only ones still handing out DVRs with a big, honkin' DVI output on the back!

Anyway, I posted a thread over in the DVR section as well so, if no answers present themselves over there, I guess I will have to punt on the idea.
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post #660 of 3529 Old 11-28-2009, 02:07 PM
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Count me in, I pulled the trigger on a 21. Can't wait to get it!
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