*Official* Pioneer Elite VSX-21/23THX Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave41200 View Post

Hi Again...since I have never done any of this before, I do not know what my needs are when you mention whether or not the Pioneer Elite TXH 23 is what I should consider or some other Receiver such as the Onkyo 876 which is at a killer price.

I do not even know what you mean by conversion and I see the Elite does not do that if I understand the few posts listed above.

All I know out of the starting gate is that I will be watching my TV 75% of the time through my Time Warner Cable Box, watching regular HD channels, sports and some movies. The other 25% will be devoted to DVD's or Blue Rays through my new slim PS3, along with listening to music from my I-Pod.

Really, pretty simple. Not into movies that much, but into old black and white movies and old TV shows.

So, with that in mind, does this make my receiver choice any easier for you to make a suggestion to me?

Thanks Again

The built in iPod controls are nice to have with no extra add on dock/etc. Otherwise, sounds like you'll be hooked up via HDMI for all else? If so, I can't see you going wrong with either. It's just a feature driven decision at that point. I chose and would chose again a 23. Biased, I am.

Tony B
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post #92 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 03:41 PM
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Hi Again. Thanks for the response WabKab. Don't know why I am struggling so much. I just need to do it and get it over with. Many on the Onkyo thread have said the 876 would be good because of the Reon upscaling, AND they are talking about setting your BD inputs for pass through and letting the 876 take over to give you a stunning picture.

What does that pass through mean? Does that mean you bypass the TV settings when viewing a DVD or Blue Ray Disc and let the receiver internal parts take over? I wish I knew and understood more to know what features are key, which ones will make a difference to me and which ones are not lacking features to provide the best audio and video picture and sound, because everyone seems to think both the Elite and Onkyo 876 and their newer models are fairly equal and it just boils down to certain features.

If that is the case, why does the 876 list for $900 more than the Elite TXH23? If they are both close to being equal, something has to be making the Onkyo $900 more, doesn't it?
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post #93 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 05:14 PM
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Hi,

I bought a 23txh a few weeks ago and am very happy with it as the main theater receiver. I currently have it directly connected to front, center, and subwoofer and will be connecting rear speakers for 5.1 later.

My question is what are folks doing for multi-zone setups? I bought the 23 because of the 3 zones as I plan on delivering sound to another room and to outdoor speakers. Do I need to buy additional equiment for this? The manual implies I need an amplifier for at least one of the zones. Is this correct? What amp would you all recommend?

Thanks!
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post #94 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 06:05 PM
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do any of you use your avr to process (upsample) cable tv? or does cable tv look good on a hdtv straight from the cable box?

i have no idea as i just got a new hdtv and don't yet have cable. i'm trying to decide what avr to buy and whether i need video processing.

the cable company in my area is fiber optic, so there is no compression of the signal. i don't know if that matters or not.

thanks,

jeff
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post #95 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by paranoidsailor View Post

Hi,

I bought a 23txh a few weeks ago and am very happy with it as the main theater receiver. I currently have it directly connected to front, center, and subwoofer and will be connecting rear speakers for 5.1 later.

My question is what are folks doing for multi-zone setups? I bought the 23 because of the 3 zones as I plan on delivering sound to another room and to outdoor speakers. Do I need to buy additional equiment for this? The manual implies I need an amplifier for at least one of the zones. Is this correct? What amp would you all recommend?

Thanks!

It will power and send video to zone 2 via composite out video and uses the 2 amp section of the 7.1 to power the audio. So, you need nothing for zone 2 as long as you use it as a 5.1. For zone 3 it will be a line level stereo out which will need an amp to push speakers. You have dozens of choices of 2 channel amps, but if for outside speakers you don't have to spend much. This zone flexibility was a compelling reason I bought this AVR.

Tony B
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post #96 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

this is why we are lucky that we have options...

since it is a dealbreaker for you, you are fortunate that there are other avr's that do what you want...

as much as i like pioneer equipment, i would never try to talk someone like you into one. it makes no sense. one of your "primary needs" can't be fulfilled, so why even look at a pio?

however, since i cannot resist throwing in my 2 cents...

this comes from someone who is, ummm, picky about video quality... imo, you are worrying way too much about the video processing part... unless you are the type of person who pauses and pixel peeps, it's unlikely that in everyday viewing that you'd be able to consistently differentiate between any of the video processing in any of your components...

ymmv... just keep in mind that "night and day" isn't really "night and day" in the great majority of cases...

Actually, after reading much around in this forum, i had decided that is not a deal breaker for me. I have already planned to buy a projector with good video processing and just ask the pio to do the sound. I am learning
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post #97 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave41200 View Post

Hi Again. Thanks for the response WabKab. Don't know why I am struggling so much. I just need to do it and get it over with. Many on the Onkyo thread have said the 876 would be good because of the Reon upscaling, AND they are talking about setting your BD inputs for pass through and letting the 876 take over to give you a stunning picture.

What does that pass through mean? Does that mean you bypass the TV settings when viewing a DVD or Blue Ray Disc and let the receiver internal parts take over? I wish I knew and understood more to know what features are key, which ones will make a difference to me and which ones are not lacking features to provide the best audio and video picture and sound, because everyone seems to think both the Elite and Onkyo 876 and their newer models are fairly equal and it just boils down to certain features.

If that is the case, why does the 876 list for $900 more than the Elite TXH23? If they are both close to being equal, something has to be making the Onkyo $900 more, doesn't it?

The 876 has a very powerful amp section and that REON proccessor are the main reasons. Don't get me wrong, it is a very very good reciever and at the same price as a 23, likely a great deal. It's down in price because been out a while(don't know if a new model is out) and make sure your getting it with a factory warranty.(authorized dealer). I don't know enough to tell you how to choose between the models, but it seems like head to head the 876 would be competing with the upper, older Elites like the SC-05/07. The only negative thing I ever read about Onkyo's was that they ran hot, some describe as very hot. I don't know much about that, but I can tell you my 23 runs cool, especially compared to my Denon2808ci. My only other point is that I found out having excellent amplification alone is not as key as room correction. In other words, my previous set up in the same room/same speakers with Denon/Auddessy/B&K200x5 amp has nothing on this 23 and I actually like this better on several fronts. I really use the Nueral THX mode for anything not DD/DTS/DTruHD/DTSMA and love it. I never liked anything like that before. Bottom line--its fun to get a new toy and you'll be getting a great AVR, either way. Maybe Chris will help with some of you technical questions about scaling/upconversion/pass thru, etc.

Tony B
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post #98 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Dave, I can't imagine any way for any processor chip to improve upon a BD signal passed via HDMI. They must be talking about passing thru the AVR. You can't pass thru the TV because it the final link in the chain. I would seem counterproductive to mess with a BD players 1080p output with a BD disc. My Samsung 2500 has a good upconverting chip(REON if I remember correctly) for DVD and also helps with Netflix streaming. Another reason why I like the idea of my 23 not messing with the HDMI signal--just passing it thru. I think that was some of the thinking about why Pioneer did that design.

Tony B
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post #99 of 3525 Old 10-01-2009, 11:56 PM
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Sorry to ask....

I am updating my receiver and have looked at everything. I think I am settled in with PIO because of sound and because of some of the reviews that relate to my previous setups. Can someone give me a quick snapshot difference between the 23 vs 21? I am on the fence.

TIA,
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post #100 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szar View Post

Sorry to ask....

I am updating my receiver and have looked at everything. I think I am settled in with PIO because of sound and because of some of the reviews that relate to my previous setups. Can someone give me a quick snapshot difference between the 23 vs 21? I am on the fence.

TIA,

I think you'll find that answer in this short thread's 4 pages. Also, a quick look at pioneer's website has a features/specs links and a pdf of the product brochures and owners manual (which is the same--21/23. Basically a few features, mainly a 3rd zone audio, extra HDMI out and extra HDMI in. Same amp and processor section. Lastly, 23 with multichannel PQLS vs 2 channel PQLS for the 21. I'm going to let you research that one.

Tony B
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post #101 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 07:55 AM
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Thanks Again Wabkab(Tony)...All of this is very interesting to me. A great learning experience. From what you are saying, since you have an Elite, the novice in me should be just fine with either the 21 or 23. I never had any doubts about the sound quality of the Elite. I have been more concerned about having to make a zillion adjustments after I hook everything up for the first time. When people mention various things on this thread, I wasn't sure if they were talking about changing connections, or making adjustments by remote to the TV and or receiver.

I think I am also going to have one of these places come to my home and do the calibration set up. They also said they connect everything including receiver. I hope that includes programming the settings to the TV and receiver.

Unless anyone has any reasons why I should get something different that would be better, I think I will make the Elite purchase of the 21 or 23 sometime this weekend.

Dave
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post #102 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 08:44 AM
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I have a PS3 hook up to Pioneer thru HDMI sending PCM multi-channel audio, since the audio signal is already decoded by PS3, how does the use of various surrounding modes (such as PLIIx, or NERO, or Neutral THX) in the receiver affect the sound? Does it do further distribution or processing? Typically what surrounding mode should be used best for multi-channel PCM signal?
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post #103 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 12:22 PM
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Thanks to all of you at AVS. I finally pulled the trigger and bought the VSX-23 and should have it by Tuesday!
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post #104 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave41200 View Post

Thanks Again Wabkab(Tony)...All of this is very interesting to me. A great learning experience. From what you are saying, since you have an Elite, the novice in me should be just fine with either the 21 or 23. I never had any doubts about the sound quality of the Elite. I have been more concerned about having to make a zillion adjustments after I hook everything up for the first time. When people mention various things on this thread, I wasn't sure if they were talking about changing connections, or making adjustments by remote to the TV and or receiver.

I think I am also going to have one of these places come to my home and do the calibration set up. They also said they connect everything including receiver. I hope that includes programming the settings to the TV and receiver.

Unless anyone has any reasons why I should get something different that would be better, I think I will make the Elite purchase of the 21 or 23 sometime this weekend.

Dave

That should be good as long as they know what they are doing. The Full Auto MCACC is easy to run and when you plug in the mic set at your listening position, it leads you to the menu to start it. Later you can tweak things--really very easy.

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Originally Posted by avdigger View Post

I have a PS3 hook up to Pioneer thru HDMI sending PCM multi-channel audio, since the audio signal is already decoded by PS3, how does the use of various surrounding modes (such as PLIIx, or NERO, or Neutral THX) in the receiver affect the sound? Does it do further distribution or processing? Typically what surrounding mode should be used best for multi-channel PCM signal?

I use the Neural THX mode for all that is PCM or Analog whether music, sports or movies. I obviously like it better than DDPLII and DTS Neo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by szar View Post

Thanks to all of you at AVS. I finally pulled the trigger and bought the VSX-23 and should have it by Tuesday!

Congratulations! I think you will be very impressed. It was much better than I was expecting.

Tony B
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post #105 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by avdigger View Post

I have a PS3 hook up to Pioneer thru HDMI sending PCM multi-channel audio, since the audio signal is already decoded by PS3, how does the use of various surrounding modes (such as PLIIx, or NERO, or Neutral THX) in the receiver affect the sound? Does it do further distribution or processing? Typically what surrounding mode should be used best for multi-channel PCM signal?

I may have misunderstood you. If you have uncompressed MC-PCM from a blu ray, then you don't want any processing. I don't have that issue as I send bitstream to the avr, but my guess is you would use the Direct mode, not Pure Direct. I bet it just reads PCM on the front panel and you probably don't need to do anything.

Tony B
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post #106 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wabkab View Post

I may have misunderstood you. If you have uncompressed MC-PCM from a blu ray, then you don't want any processing. I don't have that issue as I send bitstream to the avr, but my guess is you would use the Direct mode, not Pure Direct. I bet it just reads PCM on the front panel and you probably don't need to do anything.

Yes, I am talking about uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 PCM already decoded by PS3. I found I can still use various surround modes with them in the 21TXH, that is why I asked this question, I want to understand how these various surround modes process the already decoded 5.1 or 7.1 uncompressed PCM input signal.
In my case, I only have 5.1 speaker system, so somehow the receiver should downmix if the input PCM is 7.1, right? but if the input PCM is 5.1, then what kind of processing does the receiver do to the input signal when I select a surround mode (such as PLII or Neo) other than Direct?
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post #107 of 3525 Old 10-02-2009, 08:57 PM
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I just switched to the 21txh from the onkyo sr605 and have some observations and problems. First the good, I notice a better picture for some reason. I was running the same HDMI cables to my tv and from the cable box and PS3 but the picture is better and noticeably. The MCACC seems far more indepth than any thing I have seen in Denon or Onkyo.

Now for my problems and issues.....The HDMI handshake takes twice as long as the Onkyo. Can anyone tell me how to speed up the handshake time? The remote and manual are pretty much useless. I am pretty technical and an engineer by trade but this menu is craptastic. The remote really does suck.....whenever you need to adjust your receiver you need to hit the receiver button. You will need a harmony remote with this thing.

I noticed that the speaker terminals on the back panel are not of the highest quality either. The Ipod control isnt what I hoped for either. If you have a plasma you are asking for burn-in and the button lag is enough to abandon the ipod control and just plug in my laptop and use the iphone remote feature.

Sound quality though is very very good. I auditioned this versus the AVR-890 and there was really no comparison and I generally dont have the ear to tell two devices this close apart either. By better I mean a more complete sound. I felt the highs with the denon were noticeably more harsh. The bass was very similar between the units but the real winner was the mid's and that is where I felt the pioneer rocked.
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post #108 of 3525 Old 10-03-2009, 04:23 AM
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Hi Everyone...Planning to purchase my Receiver on Sunday. Still have the Pioneer Elite TXH-23 on top of my list, but have my second choice of the Onkyo 707 on the mind. Many of you on this thread and the Onkyo thread have been very helpful in pointing out many things for me to consider. The receiver is the last piece of equipment I need since everything else I just purchased has been shipped and is on the way.

I guess so I do not drive myself crazy anymore trying to determine which one of the two above receivers I buy, someone suggested I go into BB and listen to both of them back and forth for awhile and play around with settings, the remote, etc. Maybe that is what I need to do because I am obviously not coming to a final decision to this point.

The tough decision is probably because I am brand new to this stuff and do not understand what most of you are talking about when you mention different issues with various receivers and TV's, even though, I am learning from all of you.

One question I have that many of you write about is handshake issues. Can you please tell me what that means?

Today, the last day of research for a receiver again and Sunday, the big purchase day.
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post #109 of 3525 Old 10-03-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave41200 View Post

Hi Everyone...Planning to purchase my Receiver on Sunday. Still have the Pioneer Elite TXH-23 on top of my list, but have my second choice of the Onkyo 707 on the mind. Many of you on this thread and the Onkyo thread have been very helpful in pointing out many things for me to consider. The receiver is the last piece of equipment I need since everything else I just purchased has been shipped and is on the way.

The 707 will scale anything to 1080p while the Pioneer will do anything but 720p and 1080i. The 707 will also do PLIIz. I don't think you can really go wrong with either of these choices.

Quote:


I guess so I do not drive myself crazy anymore trying to determine which one of the two above receivers I buy, someone suggested I go into BB and listen to both of them back and forth for awhile and play around with settings, the remote, etc. Maybe that is what I need to do because I am obviously not coming to a final decision to this point.

Good idea about playing around with the remote, but don't expect much of a listening experience from this. You never know how each will be setup and how that will affect perceived differences. With most speakers, I would expect the two to sound very similar (and quite good).

Quote:


One question I have that many of you write about is handshake issues. Can you please tell me what that means?

When two HDMI devices start talking to each other they exchange some information. This is the handshake. Sometimes devices don't play nice with each other and you end up with a handshake issue. For example, lets say you turn on your TV, Receiver, and Blu-Ray. For some reason you don't get a picture or some other strange problem. You power cycle something or everything then everything works (or not). This is most likely a HDMI handshake issue, but could be many things (including a configuration error).

Enjoy your purchase! Don't forget, these are the good old days.

-Sean
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post #110 of 3525 Old 10-03-2009, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szar View Post

Sorry to ask....

I am updating my receiver and have looked at everything. I think I am settled in with PIO because of sound and because of some of the reviews that relate to my previous setups. Can someone give me a quick snapshot difference between the 23 vs 21? I am on the fence.

TIA,

Try Looking Here
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post #111 of 3525 Old 10-03-2009, 01:52 PM
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I have had my 23 about a month and am still working my way around. I have run the AUto MCACC a couple of times. The last two times I ran it my sub woofer hasn't worked. The only thing that changed is that someone was in here programming my MX3000 to include the 23 TXH but doubt that would change anything.

I went to go find where I change the Sub woofer from Yes to Plus but haven't stumbled on that yet...nor do I know if that is what will solve the problem.

Any pointer would certainly be appreciated.
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post #112 of 3525 Old 10-03-2009, 05:26 PM
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I thought I had this right, but no sound. I'm connecting the Wii using the component cable. I plugged the RGB wires into the component 1 input (dvd) and plugged the RW audio cables into the analog dvd input, but get no sound. The input menu doesn't let you assign an analog audio input to any of the video inputs. What am I missing? EDIT: I'm a jackass. I split the feed so I can play straight through the tv if I want when listening to music and I had the audio in to the tv in the wrong jack. All good now.

But everything else is going well. The sound is good, the MCACC I did during the week is working well. I was finally able to watch some HDDVD with uncompressed audio...very nice!
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post #113 of 3525 Old 10-04-2009, 09:56 AM
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Ok, so I got my 21 on Thursday. I have finally been able to play with it over the last couple of days. All I can say is WOW!! I am totally impressed! The SQ is amazing!! The PQ seems to be the same, all HDMI. Much better then my 3 year old Onkyo HTIB receiver could ever dream of being!!

I love how the MCACC is so easy to run. It is also very customizable and fun to play with. Although, my wife and kids hate when I play with it!!

Blu-ray's no sound like they should!

I like to listen to XM on DirecTV and with Neural THX, it is awesome.

Some people say that the remote sucks but I actually like it. Programmed well for all my equipment. I don't even have to use the others now. Very handy. (Well at least until I can get a Harmony!)

I did have one problem though. Friday morning while I was at work, my wife called and said that she was watching TV and wanted to watch a Blu-ray. So, I walked her through changing the input. I set it up so all she has to do is hit the BD button and it changed everything for her. She stated that it wouldn't change or do anything (volume up/down, power, input select, etc). I asked her if she had the slider switch on Main, and she said, yes. The weird part is, she couldn't even do any of these tasks from the front controls on the unit. I told her to leave it and I would look at it when I got home. When I got there I verified everything was right, it was. I actually had to pull the power cord from the back and plug it back since it was completely locked up.

Anyone else had issues with theirs locking up? I have not seen it again since, but was wondering if this happened to anyone else.

Equipment:
LG 50PS60
Sony BDP-S550
DirecTV HD
Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH
JBL Venue Stadiums (Front)
JBL Venue Stage (Surrounds)
JBL Venue Monitors (Backs)
JBL Venue Voice (Center)
Klipsch RW-10d (Sub)

Does anyone have speakers similar to these? I have the Fronts as "Large" so I can get the "Plus" for SW. Otherwise I can't get Plus, it would be grayed out (I like the bass output better on Plus). All the others are set to "Small". If you do have something similar, what are your size settings? I haven't set the fronts to "Small" and ran the MCACC, but am planning on trying it, since I have read others have theirs set like this.

Thanks everyone for helping me make my new receiver choice a no brainer!! Love it!
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post #114 of 3525 Old 10-04-2009, 12:00 PM
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First hello to all and thank you for a wealth of knowledge - sometimes I overloaded by reading to much. And I apologise at this being a bit long.

I've been looking to replace my Kenwood KR-V8050/Technics SH-8046 and a Sony STR-K7000 for awhile to simplify my setup. I bought the Sony , admittidly no research -doh, thinking it would do this only to find it's performance much inferior to my Kenwood. So the Sony ended up being used as an HDMI switch. I've read through the threads for AVRs ,Denon/Harmon Kardon/Pioneer etc, in my price range. I found a HK354 at a great price but I was worried with all the issues - I have a PS3 for one. I've been leaning toward the VSX-23 for features and reliability - I have a Pioneer SX-3700 receiver that still works great. To muddy all my thinking I have found an open box SC-05 close to the street price of the 23. The 05's better amp section and a phono input ,have a Pioneer turntable, are a couple of the inviting points to me. What I'm asking is given the same price range what would be the better out of the two (VSX-23 or SC-05)? I appreciate any input.

My other equipment;
Samsung HLS6187
Motorola HD cable box DCT6200/1000 (Charter cable)
Sony DVP-NC85H (came with the K7000)
Samsung DVD-HD850
Sony SLV-595HF
PS3 20GB "fat"
Kenwood/Pioneer/Optimus speakers
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post #115 of 3525 Old 10-04-2009, 01:31 PM
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So what does the 21 use to de-interlace 480i? It must be ABt, correct?
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post #116 of 3525 Old 10-04-2009, 01:59 PM
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has anyone experience remote problem with 23txh when you set your kurolink off? When I turn the kurolink feature off, I couldn't turn it on by the manufacture remote nor the logitech universal harmony 550 remote after a few hours. Please adivse?
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post #117 of 3525 Old 10-04-2009, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolram62 View Post

First hello to all and thank you for a wealth of knowledge - sometimes I overloaded by reading to much. And I apologise at this being a bit long.

I've been looking to replace my Kenwood KR-V8050/Technics SH-8046 and a Sony STR-K7000 for awhile to simplify my setup. I bought the Sony , admittidly no research -doh, thinking it would do this only to find it's performance much inferior to my Kenwood. So the Sony ended up being used as an HDMI switch. I've read through the threads for AVRs ,Denon/Harmon Kardon/Pioneer etc, in my price range. I found a HK354 at a great price but I was worried with all the issues - I have a PS3 for one. I've been leaning toward the VSX-23 for features and reliability - I have a Pioneer SX-3700 receiver that still works great. To muddy all my thinking I have found an open box SC-05 close to the street price of the 23. The 05's better amp section and a phono input ,have a Pioneer turntable, are a couple of the inviting points to me. What I'm asking is given the same price range what would be the better out of the two (VSX-23 or SC-05)? I appreciate any input.

My other equipment;
Samsung HLS6187
Motorola HD cable box DCT6200/1000 (Charter cable)
Sony DVP-NC85H (came with the K7000)
Samsung DVD-HD850
Sony SLV-595HF
PS3 20GB "fat"
Kenwood/Pioneer/Optimus speakers

I had that same decision, but I needed the inputs/outputs of the 23 so it won. The SC-05 is a better AVR, though with better amp section and has the phono input you need. The 05 is also firmware updatable.

Tony B
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post #118 of 3525 Old 10-05-2009, 12:03 AM
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Need help from those who have PS3 connected to 21 (or 23):
I found the bass is weaker when I set the PS3 to output decoded LPCM than when I set PS3 to output undecoded bitstream (both thru HDMI). Seems like I have some settings wrong either in the receiver or PS3. Can someone kindly point out what setting I need to correct this problem? Thanks. I have made sure it is not volume level difference, but just weaker base. I heard some threads talking about receiver should have 10db boost for PCM LFE, does 21/23 have this bug?
My settings are:
(1) All the DRC in PS3 and receiver are set to off.
(2) McACC on
(3) Standing wave on
(4) Loudness on
(5) I only have 5.1 speakers
(7) LFE attuna set to "0db"
(8) I have tried all possible surround modes with same result.
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post #119 of 3525 Old 10-05-2009, 01:31 PM
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Is this good price for VSX21 $498 from authorize store, is the VSX23 worth $110 more just to had 1 more hdmi input and 1 output?

Is either one of these match with Onkyo 806?

I had Pionner 03 elite model from last year might actually able to sell for $480. Since only has 3 hdmi port.
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post #120 of 3525 Old 10-05-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabkab View Post

I had that same decision, but I needed the inputs/outputs of the 23 so it won. The SC-05 is a better AVR, though with better amp section and has the phono input you need. The 05 is also firmware updatable.

Thank you wabkab for your thoughts on having to make a similar decsion. The phono input would be nice to have but I could always run the phono thru my Kenwood then pre-out to the 23 (provided that the Pioneer will accept the signal). The network capability of the 05 is a nice plus to think about. Have you experienced or heard any mentioned HDMI issues particulary with the PS3 -except for avdigger's post above. I've read through the 05/07 "official pages and didn't notice any. The fact the 23 is newer and has many of the 05's features ,except for the amp section & network, has me leaning toward it. By doing a comparison on Pioneer's site the 23 fits nicely between the 05 and it's replacement the 25 with the exceptions already noted. Or am I missing or misreading them? One thing I will say is I wish Kenwood would have been able to stay in the US market.
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