Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 3212 Old 11-12-2009, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know how to "reset the microprocessor?" I have done the update but Jeff's final instructions are to reset the microprocessor? I've e-mailed him and I'm sure he will get back but Noah do you know? My menus are not working properly and I assume it is because I have not done this.
As far as how good this unit sounds, I totally agree with previous statements that my evaluation of the sound is close to worthless. My speakers are 15+ years old and one is fried, the unit I replaced was 10+ years old and I wear hearing aids. I have stopped posting because I don't have anything to add as far as the sound.
I am just an everyday user and for me it has been working fine except for the scaling issues - I have figured a work around for that with a macro on my harmony so even the wife doesn't complain about it any more. I did not have set up issues - I set it up and we have been using it - end of story for me....
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post #272 of 3212 Old 11-12-2009, 04:54 PM
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for a r-872, reset was :
power down, power up in standby, press and release the "standby" and the "memo/enter" bottons at the same time
power system up again and you should see FM 87.5. done.
~ keep in mind that was for a different model sherwood.
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post #273 of 3212 Old 11-12-2009, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&W700guy View Post

Is any other manufacture using, or, going to use the Trinnov AP? Oops..except for OutLaw, YEEE..HHHAAA

Thanks

SCOTT and NOAH...ARE YOU MAD! I asked nothing out of the ordinary! I asked if any other manufacturer built, or, is going to build a receiver using the same AP.

Again, does anyone know of another company using the Trinnov AP, except for Outlaw?

Scott and Noah, if you do not know the answer, then act like adults and don't reply...Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott911 View Post

Can't there be some sort of informal agreement that those who are interested in the product itself will be using this "user" format, and those with nothing better to do but add drivial (like you cybersage, gurkey, & BW700guy) use the other threads?

I recall cynic steve doing this - and I respect him for that.

My point - I'm getting skin in the game here. I'm getting a r-972; shipping out this week. I've read everything I can find out, including every message, every thread here on AVS.

I know what I'm getting into, it's my choice, I'm a grown up. I highly suspect that I'm going to need to come to this forum for *help*, and sincerely hope that process doesn't become a senario like we're seeing all to often here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"those with nothing better to do but add trivial (like you cybersage, gurkey, & BW700guy) use the other threads?"

yes, please use the other Sherwood haters thread for that and don't waste everyone's time here, thx

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post #274 of 3212 Old 11-13-2009, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I'm disappointing to hear that the latest firmware doesn't fix your issues."

I haven't done the update yet, will do it this weekend.

I'm hopeful it will do the trick, as the symptoms Jeff said it addresses seem to describe my main problem - setup difficulty w/dipole tweeters unless the mike is placed at nearly the height of the speakers.

Great news Noah. I look forward to hearing your assessment of Trinnov.

Truth
Malice may attack it
Ignorance may deride it
But at the end of the day there it is
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post #275 of 3212 Old 11-13-2009, 10:47 AM
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http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Hi guys, Is this the right cable for any r-972 fireware upgrades?
(laptop I want to use going forward only has usb ports...) thanks.

update - I recieved note from Sherwood support that this is the correct cable...
fyi, about $5 from monoprice - a proud sponsor, I'm sure, of avsforums!
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post #276 of 3212 Old 11-13-2009, 11:16 AM
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B&W Guy-

I have read somewhere (perhaps one of the R972 threads) that ADS is going to be making something w/Trinnov. Whether this is true or not, when or what I do not know. ADS just came out with a new A/V rec'r ( a clone of the ARCAM AVR600), so I personally think it is unlikely
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post #277 of 3212 Old 11-13-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

B&W Guy-

I have read somewhere (perhaps one of the R972 threads) that ADS is going to be making something w/Trinnov. Whether this is true or not, when or what I do not know. ADS just came out with a new A/V rec'r ( a clone of the ARCAM AVR600), so I personally think it is unlikely

Not ADS. ADA.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #278 of 3212 Old 11-13-2009, 01:43 PM
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deegggo,

Jeff's instructions:

"To reset, with the unit in the standby mode, press the "stanby" and "memo/enter" buttons simultaneously and hold them down for at least 3 seconds. When the unit turns on, it should be in the FM mode and tuned to 87.5.

After re-set you will have to re-run the auto-setup."

Noah
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post #279 of 3212 Old 11-14-2009, 05:50 PM
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Thanks Robert and Kal, I will check into it.
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post #280 of 3212 Old 11-15-2009, 12:11 PM
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Jeff said the new f/w dramatically increases bass, and if it's too much there will be easy remedies.

On the off chance that that means another f/w update, I've decided to hold off until I hear from Jeff again.

The update process seems somewhat involved and risky to me, as someone who hasn't had good luck w/such things in the past and bad luck w/computers in general.

Noah
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post #281 of 3212 Old 11-17-2009, 06:01 AM
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Noah,

How long have you had this receiver? You are one patient man. I would have thrown in the towel after a few iterations of firmware didn't resolve the problem(s).
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post #282 of 3212 Old 11-17-2009, 08:49 AM
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I think there's been only one (e-mail nov 10th.) since Noah got the reciever.

From what I can tell from Noah's msg, he has no reason to believe that it's not the "fix", but is checking with SW before going through the effort to apply...
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post #283 of 3212 Old 11-17-2009, 10:18 AM
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"I would have thrown in the towel after a few iterations of firmware didn't resolve the problem(s)."

I'm on the f/w that came w/the unit..

"no reason to believe that it's not the "fix", but is checking with SW before going through the effort to apply..."

right

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post #284 of 3212 Old 11-19-2009, 05:25 PM
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Noah,
Wow, you're patient. Are you that busy that it can wait or does it sound good enough without the Trinnov that you're willing to wait?
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post #285 of 3212 Old 11-19-2009, 06:06 PM
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I'm that busy.

For the few hours I've been getting to use the system during the week, I want to watch something, not fiddle w/setup and struggle w/computers.

I'll do the update this weekend.

Noah
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post #286 of 3212 Old 11-20-2009, 10:33 PM
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I'm wondering why the HDMI audio does not work. I must be missing something. I have my DirecTV receiver and LG BluRay player (BD370) hooked in using HDMI.

Why is it that I can see the video but not the audio? I thought HDMI cables carried both audio and video. I set the input source to use HDMI for both video and audio no luck. The only luck I have had was using the optical audio cable. I thought using HDMI would eliminate at least 23 cables.

What am I doing wrong?
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post #287 of 3212 Old 11-20-2009, 10:56 PM
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Did you select HDMI for "audio output" in the setup menus for your source devices?
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post #288 of 3212 Old 11-20-2009, 11:06 PM
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Hmmm... I have HDMI1 assigned just like yours with an LG BD370 BluRay player but I'm not getting any audio. Is there something that I am missing? How is your LG BluRay player setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by z6p6tist6 View Post

So, after a bunch more experimentation this week I have concluded that the bass management issues that I was experiencing were almost certainly not because of Trinnov not working.

As it turns out, I have not been decoding the highest quality audio signals off of my DVDs. In essence, I believe I have spent several months hearing the Dolby Pro Logic audio as opposed to the (much higher quality) Dolby Digital audio that is on most of my DVDs.

I will say that this is in part due to a less-than-clear manual, but I should have noticed it long ago.

Now that I'm hearing my movies as they should be heard, I believe the Trinnov optimization in my R-972 has done a damned fine job of calibrating my system. (I have actually gone back and turned my sub down to the level it was calibrated at. Good sign, huh?)

Oh, and every DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD Blu-Ray that I have watched sound frakking brilliant.

Still looking forward to the upcoming firmware update, to see if it improves some other little things, but my situation is much improved.

For those following along at home (with their own R-972s), these are the current settings for my Blu-Ray input (LG BD-390 connected via HDMI).

HDMI Assign: HDMI 1
Video Assign: ---
Video Mode: HDMI
Audio Assign: ---
Audio Mode: HDMI

Auto Surround: On*
Audio Remaster: Off
HD Audio: On**
A/V Sync: 0 ms
DC Trigger: Off

Trinnov Position: 3
Trinnov Room EQ: Natural
Trinnov Spatial Mode: 3D Remap
Trinnov Remapping: Cinema
Cinema EQ: On

*Auto Surround had been turned off, which was apparently keeping the receiver from switching to Dolby Digital

**I believe you have to have HD Audio set to On for the new Blu-Ray audio formats (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA)

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post #289 of 3212 Old 11-20-2009, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay View Post

Did you select HDMI for "audio output" in the setup menus for your source devices?

Audio output is off. The audio mode is set to HDMI for each of the input sources.
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post #290 of 3212 Old 11-21-2009, 12:13 AM
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Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the 972's settings. I'm talking about the source devices you have connected to the 972's inputs. Check their settings menus to ensure HDMI is selected as the audio output method.
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post #291 of 3212 Old 11-21-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay View Post

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the 972's settings. I'm talking about the source devices you have connected to the 972's inputs. Check their settings menus to ensure HDMI is selected as the audio output method.

Yes... Here are the DVD audio settings. I have set it up at Primary Pass Thru and have tried PCM Multi-Ch. By default it was set to PCM Stereo. On the R972 the HDMI light is blinking.

Any other suggestions?

HDMI / SPDIF (Digital Audio Output)
Select the output sound format when a device equipped with a HDMI or
Digital Audio input jack is connected to the HDMI OUT or DIGITAL AUDIO
OUT jack on this player.
[PCM Stereo] - Select if you connect this unit's HDMI OUT or
DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with two-channel digital stereo
decoder.
[PCM Multi-Ch] (HDMI only) - Select if you connect this unit's
HDMI OUT jack to a device with multi-channel digital decoder.
[DTS Re-Encode] - Select if you connect this unit's HDMI OUT or
DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with DTS decoder.
[Primary Pass-Thru] - Select if you connect this unit's DIGITAL
AUDIO OUT and HDMI OUT jack to a device with LPCM, Dolby
Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS and DTS-HD decoder.
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post #292 of 3212 Old 11-21-2009, 09:28 AM
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It looks to me like you've configured the source device and the receiver input correctly, although I don't have a 972 so I can't say for sure what other settings there may be.

The only other thing I can think of is to check if the receiver is sending audio through the HDMI output to your display. Many receivers will not power the connected speakers if the unit is configured to output audio over HDMI.
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post #293 of 3212 Old 11-21-2009, 09:32 PM
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I got two of the three parts of the f/w upgrade done but couldn't finish because of incomplete instructions, or potentially just not foolproof enough for me.

Will finish when I hear back from Jeff.

Noah
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post #294 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 06:26 AM
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noah -- first, take your cup of coffee off the little retractable drink holder - the one that's labeled: "dell re-writable compact disc"
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post #295 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 10:15 AM
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Turned out I didn't know the 972 needed to be set to the USB input to get the last file from the memory stick.

Update done and seems to have addressed the issues, but I can't get lossless audio so can't say much.

Excerpts from our emails:

Jeff:

Based on suggestions and comments from you and others, Trinnov has developed a way to adjust bass level without having to run a new calibration. This does require updated the factory.hex file but does not require a new calibration. The factory.hex update is done by copying the file to a USB stick/thumb drive. The only file that can be on the stick is the factory.hex. After copying the file to the usb stick, turn on the receiver and select the USB input. After a few brief moments (3 to 5 seconds) the receiver will recognize that the file is an update. The 972's front panel display will flash UPDATE for about 1 minute. When the update is complete, the message UPDATE OK will appear on the front panel. Remove the USB stick and use the receiver normally. You do not need to reset the receiver after updating the .hex file.
Please find a zip file attached. When unzipped there are three versions of the factory.hex file. Burn one to a USB stcik, follow the directions above and load one into the R-972. The represent 3 bass levels. One is laboratory correct; one is 3 dB louder and the other is 6 dB louder. Please use the one you find most pleasing."

Me:

Do these different levels do anything other than change the sub trim level? If not, most everyone has a control on their sub that would be easier to adjust than loading a new file.

As far as the new f/w, it's good news/bad news, mostly good I guess.

The upgrade definitely made setup more robust, but not completely so.

With the mike lower than before but still higher than the listening position, it went OK but not w/o the surrounds still needing more than the standard 3 bursts.

It gave XO freq for all the main channels and sub -6 dB freq which is cool.

One of the setups reported the sub's horizontal angle as 90 deg, which was odd.

I tried a rotated soundstage setup and it worked, though not exactly as I expected.

It was pretty far off on the surrounds' angular positions, like 20 deg. I put a piece of foam on one side of each tweeter to monopolize them but it didn't help.

I don't much difference in bass, but hard to say w/o more extended listening which I didn't have time for.

The tonal balance was even more toppish than before, to the point of being "shushy", even with Cinema ReEQ on.

When I put the mike at actual listening position height, it took 3 tries before not failing on one or both of the surrounds.

But the third try was good and the angles were a lot closer on the surrounds, which makes sense when you look at the geometry.

Sounds maybe more spacious but tonal balance seems the same at first blush. I wanted to try some movies but there's no sound from lossless audio tracks.

I struggled w/no sound the first time I set things up, but I can't seem to klutz my way out of it this time.

HDMI audio is Off in System Setup

HDMI cable from Bluray player is plugged into HDMI 1.

Input settings for Video 1:

HDMI Assign HDMI 1

Video Assign Component 1

Video Mode HDMI

Audio Assign Optical 1 (I get sound for the parts of the DVD that aren't in lossless)

Audio Mode I tried both HDMI and Auto, no luck

In sound parameters I tried Dolby TrueHD both On and Auto

The HDMI light on the front panel isn't blinking.

Any suggestions?

Some general comments:

The manual sucks. Disorganized, and when you do find the topic you're looking for, it's cryptic and not very helpful.

I find it very irksome that the tone controls are not available w/Trinnov on.

I believe imaging cues are concentrated between 2 and 3 kHz, so I can't see any harm to Trinnov's space control by having some control outside that range.

Even if there were, the user should be able to make their own choice between spacial characteristics and tonal balance if that's what it comes down to.

Re bass, the trouble w/just changing the sub's level is that it doesn't raise the level of bass instruments' harmonics, so it can end up sounding thick and inarticulate.

Ideally there would be a tilt control like Lexicon's, but enabling the tone controls would help a lot.

Questions:

1) Trinnov and surround modes - as far as I can tell Trinnov disables all others; correct?

2) The surround button next to the Standby switch - the display indicates that it turns Trinnov on and off; it toggles between saying "Trinnov Surrou" (no surround modes can be selected) and whatever the last selected surround mode was, and it can be changed. I was surprised today that when I turned it off that the rotated soundstage I had set up stayed rotated.

So just what is that button supposed to do?

3) Why does the front panel have two different indicators saying V.UPSCALE and Video Scaling when I set scaling to Bypass in the menus?

Noah
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post #296 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 11:21 AM
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I agree about the documentation... as a newbie with high-end receivers, I found it difficult to get through the documentation to figure out how to configure everything. I'm still making my way through it.

I'm still trying to get audio to work over HDMI before doing any of the Trinnov optimization.

My setup currently is as follows:

HDMI audio is Off in System Setup

HDMI cable from Bluray player (LG BD370) is plugged into HDMI 2. Blueray player has been setup to "pass through" audio via the HDMI connection. Although I also tried the PCM, PCM Multi-Ch, and DTS Re-encode settings on the Blueray player to no avail.

Input settings for Video 2:
HDMI Assign HDMI 2
Video Assign <--->
Video Mode HDMI
Audio Assign <--->
Audio Mode I tried both HDMI and Auto, no luck

The HDMI light on the front panel IS blinking.

I'm all out of thoughts. Any one else have any?
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post #297 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 03:03 PM
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Well I am getting closer.

When the TV is off the audio comes through fine. It's when I turn on the TV that I lose the audio but gain the video. It seems as though the HDMI to DVI connection to the TV is what is causing the problem. :-/

Any thoughts? One suggestion was a Gefen HDMI detector?

Quote:
Originally Posted by p26963 View Post

I agree about the documentation... as a newbie with high-end receivers, I found it difficult to get through the documentation to figure out how to configure everything. I'm still making my way through it.

I'm still trying to get audio to work over HDMI before doing any of the Trinnov optimization.

My setup currently is as follows:

HDMI audio is Off in System Setup

HDMI cable from Bluray player (LG BD370) is plugged into HDMI 2. Blueray player has been setup to "pass through" audio via the HDMI connection. Although I also tried the PCM, PCM Multi-Ch, and DTS Re-encode settings on the Blueray player to no avail.

Input settings for Video 2:
HDMI Assign HDMI 2
Video Assign <--->
Video Mode HDMI
Audio Assign <--->
Audio Mode I tried both HDMI and Auto, no luck

The HDMI light on the front panel IS blinking.

I'm all out of thoughts. Any one else have any?

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post #298 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 03:53 PM
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You need to have HDMI Audio turned off in the System Setup menu - it's for sending audio to a TV and stops sound from coming out of the 972, and the HDMI light will blink.

That's in the manual, so I guess it's not totally useless, but they should rename it something more indicative of what it does.

Noah
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post #299 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 05:29 PM
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It was already turned off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

You need to have HDMI Audio turned off in the System Setup menu - it's for sending audio to a TV and stops sound from coming out of the 972, and the HDMI light will blink.

That's in the manual, so I guess it's not totally useless, but they should rename it something more indicative of what it does.

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post #300 of 3212 Old 11-23-2009, 06:04 PM
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when you say " My setup currently is as follows: HDMI audio is Off in System Setup"

Did you try this to ON? I wasn't sure if you were talking about a setting in the blue ray, or not... but it would be worth a try to reverse it.

I would also try to swap out HDMI cables - maybe you have a bad connection point, or break in the cable.

I'd also try to set this all up through port three. That would rule out a cold solder, or similiar problem on the r-972 itself.

I'd also try to route the audio from the blue ray by way of a digital audio cable, or similiar. Again - ruling out physical connection problem... but more importantly, just get it working to enjoy system for awhile before trying to tackle that issue again later. Keep in mind that although there's no excuse to not being able to use the cabling method you want - there is no quality difference between pulling audio through HDMI, or instead one of the other digital audio connect methods...
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