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post #3181 of 3216 Old 05-13-2014, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

The other thing to watch for IMO is that having another device in the signal chain (i.e. Dspeaker Dual Core or a MiniDSP) can have an impact on the gain structure. At least with the MiniDSP, there's something like a -6 db decrease in signal by inserting it between the pre-out and subs, with the usual unbalanced RCA connection. I had to do some finesse with the MiniDSP volume levels and a control I have on my Denon that I used as the amp for individual channel level adjustment to avoid having strange db levels show up in Trinnov Optimizer - e.g. a sub at -6db and the mains at -11 to -15 db. The odd thing is exactly the same volume levels when I ran Audyssey XT32 resulted in a tighter trim range - subs at -0.5, and my mains between -1 and -4 db.

Don't know about you, but I also found it harder to get the subs recognized by having that extra device in the mix. It appears to be more "all or nothing", meaning that literally just adding the external sub management device and keeping the volume level at 0 led to the subs not being recognized by the R-972 version of Trinnov, or creating sub trims that were too high in Trinnov Optimizer (e.g. that discrepancy I cited above, which is usually a sign that the subs are too hot).

Hmmm...did you do any measuring to see if the Dual Core was improving the sub channel? Curious, since with REW, I've found that at least this version of Trinnov does very little to correct the bass other than broad volume gain/boost adjustments, at least vs. XT32.

The first problem that I am having with the DC (Dual Core) is one that I am not sure can be overcome: Transparency. I am not using it in conjunction with my R-972 at all. My goal was to head towards a MAP (Multi Analog Preamp where I would only EQ my 2ch audio below the Schroeder Frequency. The R-972 would be used with a BD player for SACD, movies, Blu ray concert videos, etc., whose pre RCA outs would also be routed to the MAP. I had read on several sites where DC owners had complained transparency. So, after getting one I went after testing this first as this from the get-go could be a deal breaker for me. Secondly, I tested the DC's ability to EQ. Here is a brief sequence of my test procedure. Only XLR cables were used except for: A) USB Pangea-AG from PC to DAC B) Morrow RCA M1's from R-972 > Power amps

Test 1: Computer > DAC (FAT, Firestone Audio Tobby) > Power Amps
Test 2: Computer > DAC (FAT, Firestone Audio Tobby) > DC (By Pass Mode) > Power Amps
Test 3 Computer > DC > Power Amps
Test 4: Computer > DAC (FAT, Firestone Audio Tobby) > R-972 > Power Amps vs Test 1, and Test 2

In Test 1 I established the baseline for transparency. BTW, after owning a number of DAC's. I found the FAT's USB implementation to be superior. My W4S DAC 2 could only compare equally when inserting an Audiophilleo.

In Test 2 I inserted the DC in By Pass Mode into the chain. The was a slight flattening of sound in the upper midrange, and treble areas. A slight loss of "black" between the notes. Had I been using the W4S DAC 2 in USB mode I might not have heard it. This was a big disappointed to me as it means that the DC does not have true By Pass capability.

In Test 3 I took the FAT completely out of the chain to see if somehow it together with the DC was causing the transparency issue. I tested this way, and then back to Test 1. Again transparency was an issue. Doing this A/B between TEST 1 and 3 clearly revealed it as a problem.

In Test 4 I wanted to compare the transparency of the R-972 in the chain with Trinnov OFF (in both the EQ Mode, and the Spatial Modes) vs the DC in the chain in By Pass Mode. Here R-972 was completely transparent.. Zero loss in transparency, whereas again, there was a minor, but noticeable loss of transparency with DC even in By Pass Mode.

Bass EQ Test

2 CH Stereo with Dual Subs: I have been experimenting with DC almost everyday, but cannot achieve an equal quality of bass equalization as I can with Trinnov. Trinnov also seems to meld the subs with the mains better than DC. There is a more awareness of crossover points with DC, whereas it is more seamless with Trinnov. More to come on this later as I am still testing here.

An Experiment with 2ch Bi-amped mains:

As as experiment to avoid the transparency issue but still have good bass eq in 2ch stereo I put the DC in the part of the chain that only feed the lows of a 2.5 Polk Audio LSI9 speaker set up. Here was the chain:

Computer>DAC - XLR out directly to power amps channel one. Speaker cables from channel one of power amps to mids/highs on speakers
- RCA out to RCA in of DC. RCA out of DC to RCA in on channel two of power amps. Speaker cables from channel 2 of power amps to lows on speakers.

In this way I am attempting to avoid the transparency issue in the mids/highs which I do not want to EQ anyway, and EQ only the lows <200hz of the speakers (which is the crossover point in the speakers own crossover) system in hopes that this non-transparency issue will not be noticed.

I have run out of time for now, but will report back on this. But what I am realizing more and more is what a truly high quality processor the R-972 really is. I really had no idea of the R-972's transparency until testing the DC. It's was just something I had not thought about or considered. But now that I am aware of this I am appreciating the R-972 all over again in a new way.
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post #3182 of 3216 Old 05-13-2014, 03:31 PM
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from sdrucker: "Hmmm...did you do any measuring to see if the Dual Core was improving the sub channel? Curious, since with REW, I've found that at least this version of Trinnov does very little to correct the bass other than broad volume gain/boost adjustments, at least vs. XT32."

I meant to answer this earlier. The DC has a screen that shows the "before and corrected" room responses. Actually what is does to correct the modal peaks is quite amazing...... in graph form anyway. However, at this point in my system, Trinnov in the R-972 is doing a much better job....e.g., bass has more punch and definition. With DC the bass is like bouncing a half deflated basketball off a wall. With Trinnov, it's like bouncing a fully inflated basketball off the wall. The sound is more defined with punch. With DC it's as if there is fuzz around the edges. I don't know why though. I expected DC to trump the bass correction in Trinnov. But there is something in Trinnov's correction algorithms that is superior in my sustem so far. I don't have REW so I can't see what Trinnov is actually doing. But I wonder if Triinov takes into it's calculations an extra dimension of measurement that the DC does not?
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post #3183 of 3216 Old 05-22-2014, 11:03 AM
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I had read about another DC user who had problems with lack of transparency and returned the unit. Transparency is hard to measure. Are you using your headphones to compare the sound in your room?
BTW. I'm in the same boat where I like my 2CH music routed thru SB Touch->USB DAC (Ciunas)->Bel Canto Pre-6(MCH analog preamp) -> Amp,
Good thing about 972 is, it gives you an option to perform EQ below Schroeder frequency for watching Blu-ray concerts.

Speakers: Pioneer/TAD S-1EX, S-7EX, Ascend with RAAL upgrade
Pre/Pro: Onkyo PR-SC5508,Bel Canto Pre-6, Sherwood 972
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post #3184 of 3216 Old 05-22-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post

I had read about another DC user who had problems with lack of transparency and returned the unit. Transparency is hard to measure. Are you using your headphones to compare the sound in your room?
BTW. I'm in the same boat where I like my 2CH music routed thru SB Touch->USB DAC (Ciunas)->Bel Canto Pre-6(MCH analog preamp) -> Amp,
Good thing about 972 is, it gives you an option to perform EQ below Schroeder frequency for watching Blu-ray concerts.

Hi Sam. I tested the transparency by simply putting the DC in my audio chain with it in "bypass" mode, and then with it not in the audio chain at all. In "bypass" mode this should take the DC's eq processing out of the signal path. But even with the DC in bypass it still affected the transparency somewhat in my system. I am still testing the DC against the R-972, and hopefully will get time to talk about this some more soon.
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post #3185 of 3216 Old 05-23-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quick question on the R972, I have not been able to figure this out since I've owned the unit.

How do I get an audio source to play while watching a separate video source. Like can I play music while watching TV or DVD with all sources connected to the 972

Thanks.
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post #3186 of 3216 Old 05-24-2014, 07:29 PM
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Are folks still using +3/+6 DB files with firmware1.47i. I tried +3DB and I could tell it was too hot and was drowning music.

Speakers: Pioneer/TAD S-1EX, S-7EX, Ascend with RAAL upgrade
Pre/Pro: Onkyo PR-SC5508,Bel Canto Pre-6, Sherwood 972
Amp: Outlaw 770
Source:Oppo 105, Ciunas DAC, SB Touch
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post #3187 of 3216 Old 06-15-2014, 01:46 PM
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Hi!
Are these measurements correct?

HT Labs Measures Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 65.8 watts
1% distortion at 67.9 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 39.5 watts
1% distortion at 38.1 watts

Please comment will this receiver reach reference levels with 4 (front, back) lower impedance (4 Ohm, dropping to 3.5) power hungry (87 dB) speakers?

Thanks!
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post #3188 of 3216 Old 06-15-2014, 03:36 PM
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Those ratings look typical of a 100w per channel amp. I used my R-972 to power 5 x Polk Lsi series speakers for about 1 1/2 years. These speakers are 4 ohm and demand a lot of power. I never had even one problem with the R-972 powering these although there is warnings against powering below 6 ohms I believe. Although the R-972 powered these Polks to ear shattering levels it wasn't until I got some higher power external power amps that the Polks truly came to life fidelity wise. Now I just use the R-972 as a pre/pro into external power amps.
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post #3189 of 3216 Old 06-22-2014, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post
Are folks still using +3/+6 DB files with firmware1.47i. I tried +3DB and I could tell it was too hot and was drowning music.
I'd also like to know??
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post #3190 of 3216 Old 06-22-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by calpon View Post
I'd also like to know??
I'm using it.

After running the Trinnov process, I adjust the sub amp gain to suit my taste.

All the +3db/+6db files are doing is raising the sub level, not different than just doing that on the sub amp.

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post #3191 of 3216 Old 06-30-2014, 10:04 AM
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New SEOS Speakers.

I need some help as I recently replaced my L/C/R with this SEOS kit.

A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design


I'm struggling with my implementation of Trinnov. Trinnov seems to suck the life out of the speakers when it's on. I ended up turning off Trinnov and manually played with the xo points (starting at 100 hz). I eventually ended up at a xo point at 70hz and to my ears it seemed to have the smoothest response.

The 1099's kit replaced my Infinity Primus 360's that had these Trinnov results (January 2013). The sound was very good and had a fullness to them.

The SEOS Kit doesn't seem to have any midbass when Trinnov is on. I can't seem to get my head around the difference in Trinnov's xo settings are the L/C/R are identical in regards to parts. The only difference is the orientation of the center but that's it.

As for placement, the Infinity's were farther apart on the outside of bookcases but the SEOS kit's i have on the inside of the bookcases. the reason is the right side of the bookcase is in the corner of the room and i wanted to move the right speaker further away from the right wall.

Thoughts on where to start?
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg Infinity's xo settings.jpeg (21.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpeg Infinity's distance settings.jpeg (21.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg SEOS Kit 1099 2.jpg (148.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg SEOS Kit 1099.jpg (152.3 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Aug's 1099.jpg (222.6 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Augmont; 06-30-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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post #3192 of 3216 Old 06-30-2014, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
I need some help as I recently replaced my L/C/R with this SEOS kit.

A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design


I'm struggling with my implementation of Trinnov. Trinnov seems to suck the life out of the speakers when it's on. I ended up turning off Trinnov and manually played with the xo points (starting at 100 hz). I eventually ended up at a xo point at 70hz and to my ears it seemed to have the smoothest response.

The 1099's kit replaced my Infinity Primus 360's that had these Trinnov results (January 2013). The sound was very good and had a fullness to them.

The SEOS Kit doesn't seem to have any midbass when Trinnov is on. I can't seem to get my head around the difference in Trinnov's xo settings are the L/C/R are identical in regards to parts. The only difference is the orientation of the center but that's it.

As for placement, the Infinity's were farther apart on the outside of bookcases but the SEOS kit's i have on the inside of the bookcases. the reason is the right side of the bookcase is in the corner of the room and i wanted to move the right speaker further away from the right wall.

Thoughts on where to start?
94 hz is really high for the crossover point. Have you tried turning down the sub volume?
Curt has said in the past that the crossover point takes into account the subs output.

My Kef Ls50's are crossed at 76hz using the Trinnov auto-eq.

Another thought if one of the drivers in the LCR's is wired out of phase with the other
this could cause a high crossover point because of the cancellation. Trinnov would
measure a lack of output and raise the crossover point.

Steve
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post #3193 of 3216 Old 06-30-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4a View Post
94 hz is really high for the crossover point. Have you tried turning down the sub volume?
Curt has said in the past that the crossover point takes into account the subs output.

My Kef Ls50's are crossed at 76hz using the Trinnov auto-eq.

Another thought if one of the drivers in the LCR's is wired out of phase with the other
this could cause a high crossover point because of the cancellation. Trinnov would
measure a lack of output and raise the crossover point.

Steve
I have adjusted the volume but not to the point where Trinnov barely picks it up. The changes were probably more in increments of 15-20 degree turns. It's currently at the 12-1 o'clock position. I'll try smaller increments.

With Trinnov off and the xo point manually set at 70 hz, I really like the sound and blend I get with the sub.

I guess the part that's a little confusing is theoretically the LCR's are supposed to be identical in terms of frequency which is why i can't understand the center lower xo. the xo's boards are all wired identically, even though the center configuration is horizontal. These highly sensitive speakers (99 db) so i'm not sure if that may be a culprit as well.

Thoughts?
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post #3194 of 3216 Old 06-30-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augmont View Post
I have adjusted the volume but not to the point where Trinnov barely picks it up. The changes were probably more in increments of 15-20 degree turns. It's currently at the 12-1 o'clock position. I'll try smaller increments.

With Trinnov off and the xo point manually set at 70 hz, I really like the sound and blend I get with the sub.

I guess the part that's a little confusing is theoretically the LCR's are supposed to be identical in terms of frequency which is why i can't understand the center lower xo. the xo's boards are all wired identically, even though the center configuration is horizontal. These highly sensitive speakers (99 db) so i'm not sure if that may be a culprit as well.
Thoughts?
I'd start by measuring your room before running any REQ, with an OmniMic or REW kit + USB mic (assuming you have a relatively recent laptop to facilitate measuring). I'd see if you're running into a room null that's getting picked up by the change in your center placement, and try placing the center and/or mains to avoid the null if possible (likewise, to see if you're capturing a reflection that might be creating the null due to the orientation of the center).

Measuring the speaker+sub response without the R-972's version of Trinnov engaged, but experimenting with different crossovers, will help you see where this null might be occurring, and track the change in your frequency response visually. On the REW/HDMI thread in particular, there's a fair number of experienced folks that can help provide you with guidance for your room, and diagnose possible remedies (whether placement related, or using acoustic treatments).

Also, one issue may be that your sub is simply more capable than your new mains in the 70 to 100 Hz area, and given the change in speakers, is shifting the bass load to a more capable channel. A 60 to 100 Hz crossover still will give you bass response that's not localized, although it will be more of an issue if you prefer two-channel stereo listening than for, IMO, multichannel music or movies. You can try, say, a two-channel correction with just the L/R on, and save it to one of your three calibration positions. The Sherwood will provide full range correction for those mains, and you can see if you prefer the sound with no subwoofer active and just your mains in action.

Otherwise, I don't know anything about your SEOS speakers, but with the large range of db between your fronts vs. surrounds (-15 to -16 db for L/R to -26 db for a surround, with the subs at - 20 db?), you've got some components in your system driven very hard, with Trinnov trying to maintain constant gain by drastic correction to the individual speaker levels. That large a range can't be good for the Sherwood Trinnov's gain structure. But working with high efficiency speakers is outside my level of experience - others will have to chime in on that front viz. the R-972.

A couple of questions, though:
a) Are you using external amps with the SEOS, or are they being powered by the R-972? IDK how well the Sherwood will power high efficiency speakers
b) What MV level are you using in the calibration? Do you get the same result with the gain/levels with a lower absolute volume?

I'd also try turning the sub down a bit to see if you can tighten the range vs. the mains, preferably with an SPL meter to see if you can pre-match the sub volume to the individual speakers before any REQ is applied.

Finally, you also might want to check your mic placement to make sure that you're not placing the mic too close to a seat back or a wall. That center angle also needs to be closer to +/- 1 degree horizontally to get a good result for use of Remapping.


Curt may chime on some of this...and given the issues, it's an area where you might want to consider professional consulting to get all of these things correct for best results.

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...


Last edited by sdrucker; 06-30-2014 at 06:54 PM.
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post #3195 of 3216 Old 06-30-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
I'd start by measuring your room before running any REQ, with an OmniMic or REW kit + USB mic (assuming you have a relatively recent laptop to facilitate measuring). I'd see if you're running into a room null that's getting picked up by the change in your center placement, and try placing the center and/or mains to avoid the null if possible (likewise, to see if you're capturing a reflection that might be creating the null due to the orientation of the center).

Measuring the speaker+sub response without the R-972's version of Trinnov engaged, but experimenting with different crossovers, will help you see where this null might be occurring, and track the change in your frequency response visually. On the REW/HDMI thread in particular, there's a fair number of experienced folks that can help provide you with guidance for your room, and diagnose possible remedies (whether placement related, or using acoustic treatments).

Also, one issue may be that your sub is simply more capable than your new mains in the 70 to 100 Hz area, and given the change in speakers, is shifting the bass load to a more capable channel. A 60 to 100 Hz crossover still will give you bass response that's not localized, although it will be more of an issue if you prefer two-channel stereo listening than for, IMO, multichannel music or movies. You can try, say, a two-channel correction with just the L/R on, and save it to one of your three calibration positions. The Sherwood will provide full range correction for those mains, and you can see if you prefer the sound with no subwoofer active and just your mains in action.

Otherwise, I don't know anything about your SEOS speakers, but with the large range of db between your fronts vs. surrounds (-15 to -16 db for L/R to -26 db for a surround, with the subs at - 20 db?), you've got some components in your system driven very hard, with Trinnov trying to maintain constant gain by drastic correction to the individual speaker levels. That large a range can't be good for the Sherwood Trinnov's gain structure. But working with high efficiency speakers is outside my level of experience - others will have to chime in on that front viz. the R-972.

A couple of questions, though:
a) Are you using external amps with the SEOS, or are they being powered by the R-972? IDK how well the Sherwood will power high efficiency speakers
b) What MV level are you using in the calibration? Do you get the same result with the gain/levels with a lower absolute volume?

I'd also try turning the sub down a bit to see if you can tighten the range vs. the mains, preferably with an SPL meter to see if you can pre-match the sub volume to the individual speakers before any REQ is applied.

Finally, you also might want to check your mic placement to make sure that you're not placing the mic too close to a seat back or a wall. That center angle also needs to be closer to +/- 1 degree horizontally to get a good result for use of Remapping.


Curt may chime on some of this...and given the issues, it's an area where you might want to consider professional consulting to get all of these things correct for best results.
Thanks Stuart for your response. I do own an OmniMic and my testing experience is very limited but the OmniMic is very easy to use however.

First -The speakers are DIY kits from the DIYSound Group http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ utilizing directional waveguide. They are the pretty hot thing right now over at the DIY section in this forum. The designer specifically designed these to be mated with a sub for HT purpose for high output and they are 8 ohms. Each speaker (all identical in terms of components and speakers) has dual 10" woofers, dual 5" mids, and directional waveguide with a compression driver.

Second - The L/R are on an external Emotiva 5-channel amp and these are the only speakers on this amp. With only 2 channels being driven, the amp should be able to drive them at 125 watts per. The center and surrounds are being driven by the R-972.

Third - The sub is Rythmik 15" entry level sub with a 350w plate amp. with a couple of bass mgmt. filters (dampening and crossover).

Fourth - The MLP is about 6 ft from the back wall.

Fifth - I'm not really sure I understand your question "b" and the MV level as I thought the Trinnov calibration dictates the tones to be around 85 db. I wasn't aware this can be changed.

I believe the L/R aren't being measured correctly for some reason. The xo boards for the LCR are interchangeable so i can take a xo board from either L/R and swap out with the center's xo board. If i do this and get the same calculations where the xo point for the center is still 79 hz and the L/R's are 94 hz, what info would i be able derive from this? Just orientation differences? Center placement? Also, can the narrow linear spacing between the L/R play a roll in their higher xo point measurement?

Thanks.....
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post #3196 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 08:09 AM
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What surround speakers are you using? If the LCR are 99db/watt and the surrounds are much lower like 88-89db/watt, there's just too much difference in speaker sensetivity for trinnov to compensate. Meaning, for their output to match up it maybe turning down the SEOS too much to a point that it's barely there. You might have to get surround speakers that are much more closely matched in sensitivity.
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post #3197 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 08:15 AM
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What surround speakers are you using? If the LCR are 99db/watt and the surrounds are much lower like 88-89db/watt, there's just too much difference in speaker sensetivity for trinnov to compensate. Meaning, for their output to match up it maybe turning down the SEOS too much to a point that it's barely there. You might have to get surround speakers that are much more closely matched in sensitivity.
You guessed right. I'm using Infinity Primus 150's that have a sensitivity of 88 db. I just don't quite understand why the center was crossed at 79 hz while the L/R are 94 hz.

Last edited by Augmont; 07-01-2014 at 08:19 AM.
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post #3198 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 10:48 AM
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A friend of mine brought his newly built 1099's over to my house but we used his Integra 80.3 instead of my 972 because we were comparing speakers in mono only. The 1099's are really nice sounding speakers and we were all impressed. I just ordered 3 Tempest from diysoundgroup.com to possibly replace my Triad Gold LCR's I use in the theater room, I was really that impressed with the 1099's for movies.

As far as the crossover settings my downstairs 972 does odd things for my full range Von Schweikerts which are full range on all 5 channels. It sometimes chooses a lower crossover around 40hz then sometimes higher around 90. I usually just go in to the menu, turn off Trinnov, adjust the crossovers then turn Trinnov back on and it works fine. It has also set my center lower than my mains a couple of times. It is just another quirk of the 972 but it is not that big of a deal to get the expansive soundstage I so enjoy.

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post #3199 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post
A friend of mine brought his newly built 1099's over to my house but we used his Integra 80.3 instead of my 972 because we were comparing speakers in mono only. The 1099's are really nice sounding speakers and we were all impressed. I just ordered 3 Tempest from diysoundgroup.com to possibly replace my Triad Gold LCR's I use in the theater room, I was really that impressed with the 1099's for movies.
I really do like their sound and i hope at some point in the future Trinnov does too!

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I usually just go in to the menu, turn off Trinnov, adjust the crossovers then turn Trinnov back on and it works fine.
How does this actual work? I thought the results of the Trinnov calibration are fixed and can't be changed? I think i'm not picking up what you're putting down.
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post #3200 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 12:55 PM
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It has been awhile since I have done it but either it was Curt or Stereo Jeff who mentioned you could turn off Trinnov, change the crossover points, then turn Trinnov back on and it will work fine. Can't remember if it matters doing it before running the calibration or after but it works for me.

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post #3201 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 03:16 PM
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When Trinnov is off, the 979 uses the manual settings for speakers, crosovers, etc. When Trinnov is on, the manual settings are ignored.

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post #3202 of 3216 Old 07-01-2014, 08:13 PM
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You guessed right. I'm using Infinity Primus 150's that have a sensitivity of 88 db. I just don't quite understand why the center was crossed at 79 hz while the L/R are 94 hz.

Even though they are the same speakers, they are placed in different area in the room so it makes sense that the croosover are different. I think once you use a surround speaker with comparable sensitivity to the mains, you'll be much happier with the result
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post #3203 of 3216 Old 07-02-2014, 07:17 AM
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You guessed right. I'm using Infinity Primus 150's that have a sensitivity of 88 db. I just don't quite understand why the center was crossed at 79 hz while the L/R are 94 hz.

Even though they are the same speakers, they are placed in different area in the room so it makes sense that the croosover are different. I think once you use a surround speaker with comparable sensitivity to the mains, you'll be much happier with the result
Can you explain a little more the relationship of the lower sensitivity surrounds (same timbre) to the higher sensitivity mains (same timbre) and what Trinnov is doing and thus crossing the L/R higher while crossing the center much lower?

Thanks..........
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post #3204 of 3216 Old 07-08-2014, 08:56 AM
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2nd results - better

I relocated my L/R to the outside of the bookcase (like my original Infinity speakers were placed) and received better results. I did this after reading some posts on the DIY forum about toe-in and image width. the way i currently placed them on the inside didn't allow hardly any to toe-in. This made me think the L/R were too close to the center as they were only 5.5 ft apart. They are now closer to 11 ft apart.

I would like to get the xo a little lower or closer to the center's xo. I didn't change the sub setting yet but wondering if lowering the trim level on the sub amp will affect the xo setting of the fronts?
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post #3205 of 3216 Old 07-11-2014, 03:09 PM
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I didn't change the sub setting yet but wondering if lowering the trim level on the sub amp will affect the xo setting of the fronts?
any thoughts on this? anybody?
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post #3206 of 3216 Old 07-11-2014, 03:18 PM
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any thoughts on this? anybody?
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post #3207 of 3216 Old 07-11-2014, 05:14 PM
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any thoughts on this? anybody?
yes, lowering the sub trim will affect other speakers output gain from the 972.
the 972 has limits on how much it can decrease or increase the output level on each channel to balance the output from each speakers. If all the speakers are identical it makes it easy for the receiver to do this but when you have mismatched speakers like in your case, you have to be aware of how much it can adjust to get the same output from each speakers. I find that I get better results when I turn the subwoofer trim (volume control on the subwoofer itself) down and have the 972 turn it up through the calibration process. Most subwoofer has pretty high gain and the receivers having to turn it down and sometimes they hit their limits.
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post #3208 of 3216 Old 07-11-2014, 05:52 PM
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I have a Roku 2xs and whenever I try to play a Netflix movie using DD+, I get a black screen and no audio. If I play the same title from my Pioneer BDP220, it works fine. I've ended up always using stereo. My TV is a Mitsubishi 73738. The Roku is up-to-date as well as the Netflix app (white background). Any ideas?
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post #3209 of 3216 Old 07-11-2014, 09:15 PM
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I have a Roku 2xs and whenever I try to play a Netflix movie using DD+, I get a black screen and no audio. If I play the same title from my Pioneer BDP220, it works fine. I've ended up always using stereo. My TV is a Mitsubishi 73738. The Roku is up-to-date as well as the Netflix app (white background). Any ideas?
Oops, I meant Panasonic BDP220.
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post #3210 of 3216 Old 07-12-2014, 08:01 AM
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yes, lowering the sub trim will affect other speakers output gain from the 972.
the 972 has limits on how much it can decrease or increase the output level on each channel to balance the output from each speakers. If all the speakers are identical it makes it easy for the receiver to do this but when you have mismatched speakers like in your case, you have to be aware of how much it can adjust to get the same output from each speakers. I find that I get better results when I turn the subwoofer trim (volume control on the subwoofer itself) down and have the 972 turn it up through the calibration process. Most subwoofer has pretty high gain and the receivers having to turn it down and sometimes they hit their limits.
Output isn't my issue, xo points are but if they are related than that makes sense.
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