Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 110 - AVS Forum
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post #3271 of 3300 Old 12-03-2014, 09:07 AM
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Still Available for purchase?

Hi, I lurked on and off this thread but haven´t checked it for quite some time. Although the above posts about Sherwood service and warranty are concerning, I am just wondering if these units are still available for purchase anywhere. I checked accessories4less and couldn´t find them. I would probably still get one despite the problems if they are indeed available anywhere.
Thanks
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post #3272 of 3300 Old 12-03-2014, 01:53 PM
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There have been used ones on ebay recently.

Noah
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post #3273 of 3300 Old 12-05-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stucandu View Post
Hi, I lurked on and off this thread but haven´t checked it for quite some time. Although the above posts about Sherwood service and warranty are concerning, I am just wondering if these units are still available for purchase anywhere. I checked accessories4less and couldn´t find them. I would probably still get one despite the problems if they are indeed available anywhere.
Thanks
I got mine off Amazon last month - individuals sell on Amazon now and you get the 30 day return policy with most of them. Last I checked there was one for sale there for $425. Also an AVS user says he has one new in box (a spare) and he may sell it this winter.

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3274 of 3300 Old 12-05-2014, 12:35 PM
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Two questions:

1 - What is the latest firmware number, so I can check and see if mine is updated?
2 - What exactly does the "cinema eq" option do? The manual says it takes the edge off "overly shrill" movie soundtracks but goes into no detail. Note, this has nothing to do with the 3D spatial remapping cinema-vs-music option

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3275 of 3300 Old 12-05-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post
I got mine off Amazon last month - individuals sell on Amazon now and you get the 30 day return policy with most of them. Last I checked there was one for sale there for $425. Also an AVS user says he has one new in box (a spare) and he may sell it this winter.
I'm also selling mine after I get my Trinnov Altitude delivered in the next few months. It was purchased from AC4L as "A" stock, not refurbished.

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

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PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #3276 of 3300 Old 12-06-2014, 12:19 AM
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R972 Cinema EQ Curve

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post
Two questions:

1 - What is the latest firmware number, so I can check and see if mine is updated?
2 - What exactly does the "cinema eq" option do? The manual says it takes the edge off "overly shrill" movie soundtracks but goes into no detail. Note, this has nothing to do with the 3D spatial remapping cinema-vs-music option
Cinema EQ approximates a "modified SMPTE Film X Curve" for small rooms. I've attempted to upload a representation of the curve, but the 29kb exceeds the 20kb limit! Description: the Cinema curve is flat to 2k, then rolls off -3.6dB @ 10k, -6dB at 20k. When engaged, Cinema EQ modifies the output in addition to any other EQ settings.

If a Trinnov correction EQ is selected, then the "Cinema EQ" is added to this. Typically, one would add Cinema EQ to Trinnov "Flat" or "Natural" correction curves. Trinnov Set to "Flat" with Cinema EQ would net a correction to the Cinema EQ.

If interested, I can update the R972 User Notes to include a copy of the curve.

Cheers,

___________
Curt Hoyt
3D Audio Consultant

Trinnov Audio
USA

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post #3277 of 3300 Old 12-06-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

If interested, I can update the R972 User Notes to include a copy of the curve.

Cheers,
Hi Curt,

Thank you so much for that great answer - really appreciated. And I am really grateful to see you taking the time to provide information about a product well out of warranty.

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3278 of 3300 Old 12-06-2014, 01:02 PM
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Couple more questions for anyone who wants to chime in:

1- when using my Roku 3, if I hit the "30 second rewind" button the entire picture and sound disappears (I'm using a JVC RS4910 projector), then I see some gray snow, then the picture comes back after a few seconds. If I do that a few times in a row I lose the picture entirely, and have to power cycle the AVR.

Is this issue related to the HDMI problems of the receiver?

2 - Does anyone have the firmware file and might be willing to e-mail it to me so I can ensure I'm updated to the latest firmware?

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3279 of 3300 Old 12-07-2014, 10:16 AM
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To check the version of your R-972 firmware:
hold Display and Enter/Memo while the receiver is in standby mode. It will display this and then scroll.


Last edited by jtenn; 12-07-2014 at 10:27 AM.
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post #3280 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 10:38 AM
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Sony Blu Ray and 972 - HDMI not seeing DTS

Question for experienced 972 owners on BD Device selection.. here's my issue on new 972 A Stock from Accessories 4 Less (latest firmware).. I have two disc input devices..

An Oppo 981 HD (mostly only for SACD and DVD-Audio) - this is working fine over HDMI to 972 - but 972 does not see DTS formats over HDMI - Oppo Manual says DTS has to be over COAX or Optical, so that probably is that..

Sony BD - BDP-N460... When I play just a plain vanilla DTS disk 972 sees DTS over HDMI, but not advanced DTS Master, DD TrueHD, etc.. With anything higher I see Multi-PCM as a choice or Dolby PLIIx choices (movie, music, etc.) .. I using manual not auto for Surround so I can what the 972 is actually seeing..

Now despite the following from a review:

"In terms of video connections, the BDP-N460 offers HDMI, component video, and composite video outputs (no S-video). This player supports both 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 output resolutions via HDMI. The only picture adjustment is the ability to choose between three preset picture modes (standard, brighter room, and theater room). Audio outputs include HDMI, optical and coaxial digital, and two-channel analog. As I mentioned, the BDP-N460 has onboard Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, and it also passes these high-resolution audio formats in their native bitstream form over HDMI, for your A/V receiver to decode. The player lacks multichannel analog audio outputs, so the only way to pass decoded high-resolution audio formats is via HDMI. Audio adjustments include A/V lip sync and an audio filter (sharp or slow) for analog signals."

The back of the Sony BD has optical and digital out and it labeled DTS... The manual points to DTS as coming from Optical or COAX.. When I hook a COAX over to 972, it now sees DTS (still no DTS Master or TrueHD labels but at least DTS).

So, I think I'm leaving some sound on the table by not getting the full level of DTS or DD TrueHD..

First.. Any thoughts on the above.. I know the Sony is older and just could be one of the devices the 972 doesn't completely like.. Second, what BD players are folks using with 972 where full DTS signals are coming across on HDMI only.. Appreciate any and all thoughts, help, etc..

Jay S.
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post #3281 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post
Question for experienced 972 owners on BD Device selection.. here's my issue on new 972 A Stock from Accessories 4 Less (latest firmware).. I have two disc input devices..

An Oppo 981 HD (mostly only for SACD and DVD-Audio) - this is working fine over HDMI to 972 - but 972 does not see DTS formats over HDMI - Oppo Manual says DTS has to be over COAX or Optical, so that probably is that..

Sony BD - BDP-N460... When I play just a plain vanilla DTS disk 972 sees DTS over HDMI, but not advanced DTS Master, DD TrueHD, etc.. With anything higher I see Multi-PCM as a choice or Dolby PLIIx choices (movie, music, etc.) .. I using manual not auto for Surround so I can what the 972 is actually seeing..

Now despite the following from a review:

"In terms of video connections, the BDP-N460 offers HDMI, component video, and composite video outputs (no S-video). This player supports both 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 output resolutions via HDMI. The only picture adjustment is the ability to choose between three preset picture modes (standard, brighter room, and theater room). Audio outputs include HDMI, optical and coaxial digital, and two-channel analog. As I mentioned, the BDP-N460 has onboard Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, and it also passes these high-resolution audio formats in their native bitstream form over HDMI, for your A/V receiver to decode. The player lacks multichannel analog audio outputs, so the only way to pass decoded high-resolution audio formats is via HDMI. Audio adjustments include A/V lip sync and an audio filter (sharp or slow) for analog signals."

The back of the Sony BD has optical and digital out and it labeled DTS... The manual points to DTS as coming from Optical or COAX.. When I hook a COAX over to 972, it now sees DTS (still no DTS Master or TrueHD labels but at least DTS).

So, I think I'm leaving some sound on the table by not getting the full level of DTS or DD TrueHD..

First.. Any thoughts on the above.. I know the Sony is older and just could be one of the devices the 972 doesn't completely like.. Second, what BD players are folks using with 972 where full DTS signals are coming across on HDMI only.. Appreciate any and all thoughts, help, etc..

Jay S.
DTS Master and Dolby True HD only work on HDMI
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post #3282 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4a View Post
DTS Master and Dolby True HD only work on HDMI
Thanks.. That's helpful.. Since the 972 is seeing DTS coming in on the cable I need to be looking for anything Audio based and HDMI from the Sony. I could switch HDMI inputs from 1 to 2 to try a different circuit in the 972, different HDMI cable, etc. Any thoughts relative to the 972 to be sure of? The video set up was set for HDMI on all fronts originally.. I switched to Digital to accommodate the COAX connection. The thing that is troubling is that despite what it says in the manual, the connection in the back is specific to DTS and the two digital outs (COAX and Optical). There is nothing in the manual specific to the higher levels of DTS or DD as far as connections go..

May I ask with Blu Ray you have hooked up?

Jay S.
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post #3283 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 05:13 PM
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Thank you.. Found it.. Was a somewhat obscure setting under audio about Direct and Mixed.. If set to mixed, forces things down to 48 instead of any higher rates.. Switched to Direct and lo and behold DTS Master and TrueHD..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayS99 View Post
Thanks.. That's helpful.. Since the 972 is seeing DTS coming in on the cable I need to be looking for anything Audio based and HDMI from the Sony. I could switch HDMI inputs from 1 to 2 to try a different circuit in the 972, different HDMI cable, etc. Any thoughts relative to the 972 to be sure of? The video set up was set for HDMI on all fronts originally.. I switched to Digital to accommodate the COAX connection. The thing that is troubling is that despite what it says in the manual, the connection in the back is specific to DTS and the two digital outs (COAX and Optical). There is nothing in the manual specific to the higher levels of DTS or DD as far as connections go..

May I ask with Blu Ray you have hooked up?

Jay S.
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post #3284 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 05:28 PM
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Jay

I have an OPPO BDP83

Steve

P.S The 972 has a lot of obscure little settings.
2 years with it and I still am finding things.
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post #3285 of 3300 Old 12-13-2014, 05:55 PM
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Steve,

This was an obscure little setting on the Sony BD.. :-) but I'm sure I'll have a lot more to learn on the 972.. Would love to jump to an Oppo BD, just can't right now.

Thanks again.
Jay S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tr4a View Post
Jay

I have an OPPO BDP83

Steve

P.S The 972 has a lot of obscure little settings.
2 years with it and I still am finding things.
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post #3286 of 3300 Old 12-15-2014, 07:14 PM
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It is disappointing to read of the apparent abandonment of these units for any service, but I can't say that it surprises me too much. My HDMI board is completely shot - started with the HDMI output going bad, followed a bit later by all inputs also going bad - and I had assumed that getting it fixed would be a longshot at best.
The dilema now is how to move forward. The 972 still works for typically lossy soundtracks over spdif, so the question is whether to live with Trinnov + degraded source material or else plan the upgrade to be able to use higher-bandwidth source but without remapping. I'm probably leaning towards the latter due to

a) I still haven't installed the surrounds in the new space yet, and can probably get pretty good layout
b) The 972 is likely to die at some point anyway, so it may be wisest to make the transition now rather than after putting together a setup based on it.


One question I have is for anyone that has used the 972 with multi-channel analog inputs (if there is anyone out there) - how is the basic quality when used as a 7.1 integrated amp? My guess is that it's fairly decent given it's original target market/price, but I'm wondering whether it's good enough to serve as the basic volume/power provider for a setup using an external source (Oppo 103/105, HTPC with decent stutio soundcard, or even a pre-pro like the UMC200).
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post #3287 of 3300 Old 12-15-2014, 08:45 PM
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FWIW, I don't think the 7.1 input can be used with EQ and remapping.
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post #3288 of 3300 Old 12-15-2014, 08:49 PM
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Does anyone know the difference between firmware version 1.47 and 1.47i? I have 1.47. Was 1.47i the last one?

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3289 of 3300 Old 12-15-2014, 09:28 PM
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[It is disappointing to read of the apparent abandonment of these units for any service.]

**** I hear ya. I thought there was a Federal law that required that parts for discontinued products must be continued to be available for like 5-7 years but I am not sure about that. But overall, Sherwood was almost there with the R-972. They gave up too early. Only a few bugs to work out. If they had persevered like Emotiva did with it's buggy UMC-1 they would have still been producing this world class receiver today.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[One question I have is for anyone that has used the 972 with multi-channel analog inputs (if there is anyone out there) - how is the basic quality when used as a 7.1 integrated amp?]

**** I would like to know about this as well. Many that have an Oppo, or Cambridge BDP talk about the better audio of using the multi-analog outs rather than the HDMI

dwk123 just a heads up. There is a R-972 for sale on ebay for 450.00. Seller claims it's in excellent condition.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherwood-New...item339a6b96f0
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post #3290 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 01:12 AM
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There is no such Federal law that requires manufactures must keep parts available for any set amount of time like 5-7 years on discontinued products.
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post #3291 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 06:42 AM
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It could be state law then, and of course, will vary from state to state. Here is an excerpt from California State Law about the matter (esp' look at section (b):

(a) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with respect to an electronic or appliance product described in subdivision (h), (i), (j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code, with a wholesale price to the retailer of not less than fifty dollars ($50) and not more than ninety-nine dollars and ninety-nine cents ($99.99), shall make available to service and repair facilities sufficient service literature and functional parts to effect the repair of a product for at least three years after the date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the three-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product.

(b) Every manufacturer making an express warranty with respect to an electronic or appliance product described in subdivision (h), (i), (j), or (k) of Section 9801 of the Business and Professions Code, with a wholesale price to the retailer of one hundred dollars ($100) or more, shall make available to service and repair facilities sufficient service literature and functional parts to effect the repair of a product for at least seven years after the date a product model or type was manufactured, regardless of whether the seven-year period exceeds the warranty period for the product.
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post #3292 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post
Does anyone know the difference between firmware version 1.47 and 1.47i? I have 1.47. Was 1.47i the last one?
Chris: I'm using 147 on my R-972. I no longer remember the exact difference, 147i has something to do with 1080i (interlaced). I remember not being impressed with the change and thought it was a step back. Anyhow, my bottom line is that 147 or 147i are both acceptable for the R-972. If you are having video problems with the unit, 147i may be more forgiving.

Jeff
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post #3293 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 12:15 PM
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EDIT: Problem isolated - it isn't the receiver, it's the projector. Swapping to a Samsung DLP made the issue go away.


Thanks Jeff. BTW does anyone know if it is possible to solve an HDMI problem I'm having with my Roku 3? If I use the 30 second rewind button, or the "back" or home button which takes you out of a movie and back to the main menu - I lose the picture. In the case of the 30 second rewind button I get silver fuzz but the sound is retained.

I think what is happening is that the Roku is momentarily "disconnecting" its video signal from the receiver and losing the HDMI handshake. But this problem never occurs if I have the Roku hooked directly up to a projector.

I'll swap projectors tonight to see if the problem goes away using a DLP instead of my JVC RS4910 (which is known to have some HDMI handshake issues).

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum

Last edited by chrisreeves; 12-16-2014 at 12:55 PM.
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post #3294 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 01:17 PM
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Anybody have any idea of what percentage of R-972's have developed HDMI problems?

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3295 of 3300 Old 12-16-2014, 01:20 PM
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[QUOTE=islandman2020;29955721] They gave up too early. Only a few bugs to work out. If they had persevered like Emotiva did with it's buggy UMC-1 they would have still been producing this world class receiver today.

Out of curiosity what bugs are left? I only got mine a month ago, used, with firmware 1.47 and it seems stable so far to me.

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #3296 of 3300 Old Yesterday, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandman2020 View Post
It could be state law then, and of course, will vary from state to state. Here is an excerpt from California State Law about the matter (esp' look at section (b):
And it is also something that on a State level, that is not enforced very often. Don't forget, a law also has to be enforced to be effective, and often times the expense to a consumer of trying to enforce a law by hiring a lawyer to do that can be very expensive. And trying to do it via a class action don't help either, as then most of of the money awarded will go to pay lawyers first.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amt View Post
FWIW, I don't think the 7.1 input can be used with EQ and remapping.
Correct.. The direct Analog inputs cannot be used in conjunction with Trinnov.. Only digital inputs..

Jay S.
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post #3298 of 3300 Unread Today, 02:45 PM
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New question.... Anyone using DVD-Audio or SACD on 972 .. Can you test and see if you're getting the same results..

I've got most everything working the way I want it, but not sure if another "quirk" or "working as designed". With Trinnov on for DVD-Audio and SACD, the signal is seemingly restricted to 48kHz or lower (had an SACD at 44).. However, the Oppo 981HD is capable of delivering up to 128 over HDMI.. When I turn Trinnov off, using the same DVD-Audio, I'm greeted with a very nice 96/24 message and a constant 96kHz when it's playing.. still getting full DVD Audio surround, but lose Trinnov spatial correction.. Can you think of a reason why Trinnov is restricting the DVD Audio signal to 48kHz .. Like I said, turn Trinnov off and I get multi PCM at 96... Turn Trinnov back on and signal is coming in (at least on the display) at 48...

When playing Blu-Ray with the Sony, I'm clearly getting the higher resolution modes with Trinnov on... Any thoughts? Still debating whether I like Trinnov on or off for plain Stereo.. :-)

Jay S.
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New question.... Anyone using DVD-Audio or SACD on 972 .. Can you test and see if you're getting the same results..

I've got most everything working the way I want it, but not sure if another "quirk" or "working as designed". With Trinnov on for DVD-Audio and SACD, the signal is seemingly restricted to 48kHz or lower (had an SACD at 44).. However, the Oppo 981HD is capable of delivering up to 128 over HDMI.. When I turn Trinnov off, using the same DVD-Audio, I'm greeted with a very nice 96/24 message and a constant 96kHz when it's playing.. still getting full DVD Audio surround, but lose Trinnov spatial correction.. Can you think of a reason why Trinnov is restricting the DVD Audio signal to 48kHz .. Like I said, turn Trinnov off and I get multi PCM at 96... Turn Trinnov back on and signal is coming in (at least on the display) at 48...

When playing Blu-Ray with the Sony, I'm clearly getting the higher resolution modes with Trinnov on... Any thoughts? Still debating whether I like Trinnov on or off for plain Stereo.. :-)

Jay S.
That's a feature, not a bug. Trinnov on the R-972 processes at 48 kHz, regardless of source (DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, SACD). That's no different than Audyssey does on its AVR implementation. Somewhere on this thread or the R972 Trinnov Notes, Curt explained that as a tradeoff made due to DSP processing power.

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That's a feature, not a bug. Trinnov on the R-972 processes at 48 kHz, regardless of source (DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, SACD). That's no different than Audyssey does on its AVR implementation. Somewhere on this thread or the R972 Trinnov Notes, Curt explained that as a tradeoff made due to DSP processing power.
Thanks.. Had to assume it was something "preset" like that.. Question is DVD-Audio at 96 (or higher) in "normal" surround vs. Trinnov at 48 but 3D remapped.. Not sure yet. :-) Like I mentioned.. pretty well set on the Cinema side, but still playing on the Music side. Coming from a Sherwood Newcastle R865 which is likewise a GREAT receiver, as was it's upgraded sibling the 965...

Jay S.
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