Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3212 Old 12-26-2009, 04:48 PM
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thanks for the heads-up...I was going to start that process and go through all of the various iterations...hopefully this saves me a few steps...
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post #362 of 3212 Old 12-26-2009, 05:39 PM
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^^^^ Ugh, the HDMI 'green screen' handshake issue. I ran across this while auditioning a Pioneer VSX-23TXH. Nice unit, but it is not user-firmware upgradeable and who knows how long a repair shop would take to perform an upgrade (days or weeks, which could very much limit audition time or maybe even make it impossible to return within 30 days) for a firmware (that might not even exist) or if one does exist there is no guarantee it would solve the problem.

I also tried various turn-on sequences and such with my Harmony 670 remote, but didn't have any major luck solving the issue and decided that I didn't want to deal with a product that couldn't be more easily firmware upgraded. (Provided a fix for my pesonal issues was or would be available.)

So even though I temporarily gave up on the Outlaw iteration of the 972 I ultimately decided to wait it out since I think Outlaw is probably going to put more effort into takin care of such problems than Pioneer might and in a way that I can take care of without the hassle of repair shop visits that might not even solve the issue. I'm also hoping that when the 997 is out I won't have to worry about this with that model, but then it's such a fun gamble with HDMI, isn't it?
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post #363 of 3212 Old 12-27-2009, 02:21 PM
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Take a look at the new Integra DTC 40.1(receiver) or DHC 40.1 (pre/pro). They both have more features than the 997 or 972 and both offer user upgadable firmware. Reviews from users on AVS have been very positive.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #364 of 3212 Old 12-27-2009, 04:14 PM
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^^^^ Thanks for the suggestion. I'm leaning towards separates as I already have an Outlaw 7125 and with the DHC-40.1 costing about $200 less than the expected 997 that might be a better way to go.
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post #365 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 07:16 AM
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Regretfully, the DHC-40.1 is lacking in multi-channel audio inputs and it would probably cost more in the long run to replace my Panny DVD-CP72 with either a unit that plays DVD-Audio or get a Blu-ray player (probably the Oppo) that handles both Blu-ray and DVD Audio in one unit. On the other hand the Dennon AVR-3300CI does have multi-channel imputs, so that might work better. More studying to do...
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post #366 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 07:24 AM
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The DHC 40.1 is going for a under a $1000(pm me if you need the dealer) which will leave some left over for a new player if you need multi-channel inputs. Even with a new player it will still cost less for the DHC 40.1+player vs. the 997 or 972 and you'll get a lot more features than the 997 or 972 also and still pay less.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #367 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 07:43 AM
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PM sent. Also turns out that the Denon is a receiver, though I'm not entirely against buying one instead of a pre/pro. But I get the impression from the little I've read that the DHC 40.1 is probably a better product.
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post #368 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 07:49 AM
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The 40.1 is probably going to be my new pre/pro now that the 972 and 997 are a bust.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #369 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

The 40.1 is probably going to be my new pre/pro now that the 972 and 997 are a bust.

If the 972 is in fact "a bust" then they are about to commit public relations suicide by letting Kal Rubinson review one.

I guess we shall see though.

I'm still hoping that Outlaw gets their 997 right.
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post #370 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 06:03 PM
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I would not say the 972 is a "bust" I don't think they have had enough market penatration to say that. I will admit that the first batch may have had some problems, but lets not write if off yet. I am a network engineer by trade and will tell you that any cutting edge tech usually has significant bugs (just ask microsoft about Vista). I believe that Sherwood is commited (at least financially) to the project and will work it out. Most of the issues I have heard about are simply software issues and nothing else. The hardware works, and sound great, at least most people think so. Give them a little time, have faith. Good things come to those who wait. ( I mean after the release not the annoucement)

If I agree with you then we will both be wrong
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post #371 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 06:39 PM
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Newbie!

Well newbie to this forum anyway!
I just purchased a R972 over the holidays and my listening room has come alive!
I must be missing something!
Aren't receiver's supposed to reproduce the intended media as closely as possible.
Well the R972 does a magical job of just that. It has made my listening environment sound like a theater. My bass response is more localized. Movie soundtracks and movie
watching have approached a whole new level!

Just run Trinnov set-up, put in a blu-ray and enjoy!

KrazyK
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post #372 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 06:51 PM
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Have you had any HDMI handshake issues...as I have noted in earlier posts, I get a green-screen sometimes upon start-up...otherwise, it has been great!!
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post #373 of 3212 Old 12-28-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyK View Post

Newbie!

Well newbie to this forum anyway!
I just purchased a R972 over the holidays and my listening room has come alive!
I must be missing something!
Aren't receiver's supposed to reproduce the intended media as closely as possible.
Well the R972 does a magical job of just that. It has made my listening environment sound like a theater. My bass response is more localized. Movie soundtracks and movie
watching have approached a whole new level!

Just run Trinnov set-up, put in a blu-ray and enjoy!

KrazyK

I am glad you are happy with your new purchase. What you are feeling is what home theater is suppose to be about. I spent years tweaking and wondering if I had the best. I finally just got it the best I could, then just sat down and enjoyed my movies. I hope the 972 will take it one step further.

If I agree with you then we will both be wrong
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post #374 of 3212 Old 12-30-2009, 11:14 AM
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It looks like more r-972's are on there way out; hopefully mine is sitting in work's mailroom while I'm off on vacation!

I'd like to request that people who are posting problems & solutions list the firmware that's on the unit they are describing - that should make some of the early bugs easier to diagnose.

Sherwood Corp. themselves should also start posting what the latest verison number is and what that firmware's expected to fix. Most going down the Sherwood Newcastle route with this reciever are expecting to do some FW updates and being openly communitive about firmware options exist should be a given.

Nothing yet - Sherwood held back my pre-christmas shipment because a newer firmware had just become available. They reported FW would be applied Jan 4th or 5th, and r-972 would ship out the next day. My fingers are crossed.
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post #375 of 3212 Old 01-12-2010, 01:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott911 View Post

It looks like more r-972's are on there way out; hopefully mine is sitting in work's mailroom while I'm off on vacation!

I'd like to request that people who are posting problems & solutions list the firmware that's on the unit they are describing - that should make some of the early bugs easier to diagnose.

Sherwood Corp. themselves should also start posting what the latest verison number is and what that firmware's expected to fix. Most going down the Sherwood Newcastle route with this reciever are expecting to do some FW updates and being openly communitive about firmware options exist should be a given.

Nothing yet - Sherwood held back my pre-christmas shipment because a newer firmware had just become available. They reported FW would be applied Jan 4th or 5th, and r-972 would ship out the next day. My fingers are crossed.

Jan. 12th today, did you ever get the AVR?
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post #376 of 3212 Old 01-13-2010, 12:38 PM
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cybersage said: Jan. 12th today, did you ever get the AVR?

Hi cyber: I called and was told that the resources to get my r-972 moving out the door (they said they needed to apply the flash update) were tied up at CES... and that mine was being shipped on the 11th - yesterday.

At first I was thinking *new* flash update - good! (I think) - but I suppose it could be the same one that Kal Rubinson mentioned at end of December that was just being applied to my hardware now... anyway, I'm just anxious to get that damn cold metal box in my arms!
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post #377 of 3212 Old 01-13-2010, 03:22 PM
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Back from CES and finally got a chance to play with my 972. This is my initial impression and I will follow up with a more in depth review when I can spend some more time with the unit. Let me start with a quick equipment list.

Sherwood Newcastle 972
Integra Research RSA-7.1
B&W CDM 9NT, CNT, SNT
JVC RS-2
Stewart 120 inch Screen

Now a little background on myself. I have been an avid HT guy since about 1986 and have built 4 home theaters for myself and consulted on numerous others. I also have 20 years experience mixing live sound. I am a network engineer by trade (computer geek).

I have helped calibrate and installed systems from HTIB to 200k plus systems, so I would like to think I have a pretty good ear (at least I hope so).

I installed the 972 into my current rack replacing my Onkyo 805. I ran the calibration using a tri-pod at the center seating position. I used a laser point er to make sure the red dot pointed to the center speaker as best as possible. Now I will tell you the weakness of my current home cinema. The dimensions are 13 x 13 x 8 (insert gasp here), the worst possible shape. I have large bass traps in the back to help with standing waves, and acoustically treated the walls with Owens Corning panels. The rooms sound pretty good in the sweet spot, but does sound small and has some significant bass tone issues.

The first thing I noticed about the 972 was how open it made my room feel. I noticed detail in imaging that I never noticed before. The unit sounds very good even without the processing, but when Trinnov is turned on you can really here the sound stage open up. I have watched three movies now that I have tested on several high end systems during calibration. On every single movie, things moved around in the sound field in ways I rarely hear. In the movie "Meatballs with a chance of Rain" there is a scene where the fish bowl rolls toward you and then past you. I listened to this clip without Trinnov and the bowl rolls past you but you can here it pass from speaker to speaker as it moves. I then turned on Trinnov. Bowl rolls right through your head, but off to the left a little. Very hard to explain but it is in a 3d space I have only heard in one other theater. On another occasion I was watching a clip with some birds chirping between FR and RS. My old receiver put it smack dab in the middle of the two speakers on the right wall. I then turned the 972 and and kicked on Trinnov. I did not notice the bird at first, but heard something in the next room that sounded like a bird chirping. I stopped the sound and the bird stopped, I then turned it back on and the bird was back. I watched the clip again without Trinnov and the bird was IN the room on the right wall again. The fact that the bird sounded outside the room was amazing and I believe the way it was intended to sound.

Now the 972 does have some short falls. HDMI handshake being one of them. I feel this will be fixed very soon and is not really a deal killer for me. Also the lack of a good manual is a problem, but if you know your way around a home cinema you will find your way around the 972. First thing I learned ?...turn off "auto surround" under each input, this will allow you to select your surround mode instead of being locked into the surround mode the receiver chooses for you (selected by the source code). Also I don't really care for the full 3d Trinnov for movies. It will center the speaker where it needs to be, but I noticed that if you move your head one way or the other, the imaging seems to move with you. I love the 3d mode for stereo though. I wish the mic cord was longer but I used a cat5 coupler to extend the cable length.

Well I hope this helps those of you still on the fence. Give Sherwood some time and they will make this a great unit. If you are looking for the out of the box, plug it in and go solution, then I would stay away from the Sherwood. If you are very familiar with home cinema and can spend some time tweaking, then you can get very very good sound out of the Sherwood. Hope this helps.

OH, I do not work for Sherwood and just met Jeff at CES for the first time last week. I just love home cinema and love the idea of this product. Game changer? We will see.....it can do things that someone in my budget can not usually afford. Will it work in the average living room? I do not know, but I do not think that is really the target market. Just my 2 cents.

Flame suit on

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post #378 of 3212 Old 01-13-2010, 03:48 PM
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Very neat (and encouraging) description of the sensation of surround w/ trinnov. Thanks for the write-up.

I'm certain I'm at a lower level experience and smarts-wise than you, so please, please keep the set-up tips and suggestions coming as you experiment with your system!
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post #379 of 3212 Old 01-13-2010, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bighifi View Post

If you are very familiar with home cinema and can spend some time tweaking, then you can get very very good sound out of the Sherwood.

Tweak it how?

The biggest reason for returning mine was that it was way too bright w/Trinnov, and if it's engaged the tone controls are disabled.

Noah
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post #380 of 3212 Old 01-14-2010, 04:59 PM
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I meant tweak as in speaker position and calibration pointing. Turning off the Trinnov Eq did not help. How did it sound without trinnov?

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post #381 of 3212 Old 01-14-2010, 05:10 PM
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By speaker position do you mean physically moving your speakers?

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #382 of 3212 Old 01-14-2010, 07:23 PM
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yes. I did notice that symmetrical speaker placement is not really necessary but does make a huge difference in the calibration. Although Trinnov is said to re-position your speakers through voodoo magic, I did notice that it caused my sound field to sound........strange, not bad, just different. When I put the speakers symmetrical in the room (I use a tape measure and a laser pointer) things opened up even more. Sherwood may disagree (and they have much more experience than I with the unit), but do not think the 972 will take a poor sounding room and make it sound like a million bucks. I do think it can make some major changes but it does have it's limits. All of my speakers our point source, so someone with bi-pole or dipole or whatever pole speakers may not have as good a luck with the 972. The phase issues in a room can be a very hard thing to fix, so if Trinnov is spending a lot of processing power to fix phase and time issues, it may be limited on the the things it can fix acoustically. These are negatives, just limits like anything else. I think the 972 was targeted toward installers who have the time to make things right before any processing. Like I said, the 972 may not work for everyone. Just like some people love Audyssey and some people hate it. I really like my 972, because it seems to polish my home theater even more. When I get some more time I will do some hard core experiments to see how the 972 holds up.

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post #383 of 3212 Old 01-14-2010, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I just received a 972 for review and my understanding was that I would not get one until SN felt pretty comfortable about the firmware and performance stability, so I guess this is a good sign. I will post the F/W version when I get it hooked up next weekend.

How is this coming along Kal?
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post #384 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 07:27 AM
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yes. I did notice that symmetrical speaker placement is not really necessary but does make a huge difference in the calibration. Although Trinnov is said to re-position your speakers through voodoo magic, I did notice that it caused my sound field to sound........strange, not bad, just different. When I put the speakers symmetrical in the room (I use a tape measure and a laser pointer) things opened up even more. Sherwood may disagree (and they have much more experience than I with the unit), but do not think the 972 will take a poor sounding room and make it sound like a million bucks. I do think it can make some major changes but it does have it's limits. All of my speakers our point source, so someone with bi-pole or dipole or whatever pole speakers may not have as good a luck with the 972. The phase issues in a room can be a very hard thing to fix, so if Trinnov is spending a lot of processing power to fix phase and time issues, it may be limited on the the things it can fix acoustically. These are negatives, just limits like anything else. I think the 972 was targeted toward installers who have the time to make things right before any processing. Like I said, the 972 may not work for everyone. Just like some people love Audyssey and some people hate it. I really like my 972, because it seems to polish my home theater even more. When I get some more time I will do some hard core experiments to see how the 972 holds up.

Based on your assessment and others it sounds like this receiver(trinnov) is not for everyone. Sounds like it's pretty picky with speaker placement and speaker type(direct, bi-pole,di-pole)

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #385 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 08:08 AM
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Based on your assessment and others it sounds like this receiver(trinnov) is not for everyone. Sounds like it's pretty picky with speaker placement and speaker type(direct, bi-pole,di-pole)

and this means what? Legairre - you can visit every equipment thread in the world and post "is not for everyone": you'll be guilty of being...wait for it... right!

I, for one, haven't seen the volume of user experience that would lead me to draw *any* solid conclusions yet.

Though - I was sorry to see you go to the integra because you have the axiom bipole surrounds which I'm about to get and I was hoping to see what your experience was if you had gone with this reciever. So far, I think Noah was the only guy to report on the bi-pole / di-pole problem, and if I recall he had a lot of usually configuration going on with room layout, and speaker types, etc...- So I'm not going to give up on that whole class of surrounds yet.
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post #386 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 08:26 AM
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I would agree with scott911. I do not think there is enough market penetration to make that statement yet. I do not have any other speakers in my house except point source. I do have lots of friends who do though. I will try and do some testing and see how the 972 does. I think we forget the amount of processing that the 972 does have. I know we get caught up in bells and whistles and small details, but when push comes to shove it is about the sound. The 972 does make a significant difference to your system. Now is it good or bad? Well I have installed systems and calibrated everything to where is should be. I come back a month later and the bass is cranked up the rears our cranked up, and the client says he did not like the sound calibrated the way it was. Now is he wrong? It is his system, his ears, and his money. My kids think ear buds from K-mart sound great, I think they sound like crap. Give this product some time. It will make your system sound different, and I believe closer to what the industry says is the "standard", but you make not like the standard. This does not make this a bad product, just not your choice. Happy listening.

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post #387 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 09:18 AM
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How is this coming along Kal?

Just got it up and working before CES. Will get back to it this weekend. So far, no problems.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #388 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by scott911 View Post

and this means what? Legairre - you can visit every equipment thread in the world and post "is not for everyone": you'll be guilty of being...wait for it... right!

I, for one, haven't seen the volume of user experience that would lead me to draw *any* solid conclusions yet.

Though - I was sorry to see you go to the integra because you have the axiom bipole surrounds which I'm about to get and I was hoping to see what your experience was if you had gone with this reciever. So far, I think Noah was the only guy to report on the bi-pole / di-pole problem, and if I recall he had a lot of usually configuration going on with room layout, and speaker types, etc...- So I'm not going to give up on that whole class of surrounds yet.

For one you are incorrect, I haven't bought the Integra or any other receiver or pre/pro to replace emy current one yet. I made an observation based on assessments in this thread. I never asked you to draw any conclusions.

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post #389 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 10:21 AM
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My conclusion is that you've already drawn solid conclusions on the r-972. I'm just impressed that you're so smart, that's all.
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post #390 of 3212 Old 01-15-2010, 10:34 AM
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Good to hear to hear you're impressed.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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