Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3216 Old 03-06-2010, 10:24 PM
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If anybody is fence-sitting on buying a 972, projectorScreens( Mesa, AZ ) has been putting new ones on Ebay for starting bid of $1080( free shipping ) about once a week for the last month or so. They are an authorized dealer.
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post #632 of 3216 Old 03-07-2010, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjr15 View Post

If anybody is fence-sitting on buying a 972, projectorScreens( Mesa, AZ ) has been putting new ones on Ebay for starting bid of $1080( free shipping ) about once a week for the last month or so. They are an authorized dealer.

What do you want to bet those are returns being recycled?
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post #633 of 3216 Old 03-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjr15 View Post

And no, it's not our ears, or a "sampling error", it's the Trinnov EQ in some 972s.

Curious what you base that statement on.

Noah
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post #634 of 3216 Old 03-07-2010, 02:36 PM
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Who else has Inkel been the oem for?

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post #635 of 3216 Old 03-07-2010, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RoboRay View Post

What do you want to bet those are returns being recycled?

That's where I got mine and everything works for me but the Trinnov Room EQ( Trinnov remapping works well ). There are a few minor glitches like the "upscaling" light being on when upscaling is bypassed, but my 972 has not had the big problems many other users have reported. The lack of Room EQ is not a big deal for me because my speakers sound pretty good without it. Also, I am not using the video processing.
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post #636 of 3216 Old 03-07-2010, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Curious what you base that statement on.

I base it on my experience and my judgment.
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post #637 of 3216 Old 03-08-2010, 11:15 AM
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The vendor xjr15 mentions has sold at least 1 unit as a "demo" at a price less than mentioned. They claimed others as new & un-opened.

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post #638 of 3216 Old 03-08-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

Who else has Inkel been the oem for?

Found this AVS post on the subject.
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post #639 of 3216 Old 03-08-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

The vendor xjr15 mentions has sold at least 1 unit as a "demo" at a price less than mentioned. They claimed others as new & un-opened.

Mine looked new right out of the box. No fingerprints, smudges, etc., as you would expect on a refurbished unit. Also, the Ebay "Buy It Now" price is $1800, which is the MSRP for a brand new unit. The 972 is not yet completely debugged( duh! ), and that's probably why they are selling below list and not exactly flying off the shelves, even at a steep discount. Over the weekend I got a private email from a beta tester( who did not pay for his 972 ) and his 972 blew power amp fuses and destroyed a woofer with a noise spike, so he is sending it back. Unless you are really interested in the Trinnov Remapping and are dedicated enough to do a very careful setup and are willing to risk damage to other components, you should probably not get one until they are completely debugged. But by then you may pay full list.
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post #640 of 3216 Old 03-08-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

Who else has Inkel been the oem for?

Boston Acoustics, Denon, Harman/Kardon, Insignia (Best Buy), Marantz, NAD, Onkyo, Outlaw, Pioneer, Teac, Yamaha..

Just my $0.01..
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post #641 of 3216 Old 03-10-2010, 07:57 AM
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So by that list it is safe to assume that we have an implementation issue & not a quality control problem. What all can we assume they can fix with firmware??

Mark Conner
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post #642 of 3216 Old 03-11-2010, 09:03 AM
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Anybody know if the r-872 got it's initial hdcp handshaking issues sorted out? That might be a good indication.
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post #643 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 05:49 AM
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I'm sure a lot of readers of this thread are also interested in the Outlaw 997 which was to be a pre/pro based on the SN R-972. I say "was" because I just received an email from Outlaw where they stated they have Cancelled the 997. The email went on to say a lot about the frustration they have had with SN and how their 997 would be somewhat obsolete before it ever came out.

The good news is, they are not giving up on Trinnov. In the same email they talked about a new pre/pro that they are designing and building, tentatively called the 998. They claim it will have Trinnov implemented correctly.

I hope they get this out this year.
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post #644 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 06:07 AM
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Pretty damaging to S/N's reputation and pretty major shot against the R-972 for anyone that was on the fence waiting for this thing to get the bugs worked out.
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post #645 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 06:39 AM
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Outlaw took the shot at Inkel not SN
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post #646 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 06:46 AM
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Same thing in my book. Inkel owns S/N, right?
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post #647 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 06:52 AM
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"Why are we so excited about this development? As many of you know, we have an excellent working relationship with Inkel, Sherwood Newcastle’s parent company, and we worked closely with them to develop our award winning Model 990 preamp processor."

- Outlaw Audio, September 19, 2008.
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post #648 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkntz View Post

Pretty damaging to S/N's reputation and pretty major shot against the R-972 for anyone that was on the fence waiting for this thing to get the bugs worked out.

Can anyone blame Outlaw for pulling the plug on the 997? I received the e-mail this morning and feel Outlaw is making a wise decision. I am sure the information in the e-mail from Outlaw is factual or they would not have sent it out or put it on their site. The blame IMO falls squarely on Sherwood Newcastle as unfortunately their track record with AVR/prepros is not a good one.

I was very interested in the R-972 when it was first released after many delays. After reading many user reviews it is apparent that there are major issues that need to be resolved with the R-972. Its to bad as Trinnov looked to be an excellent room correction system if implemented properly.

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post #649 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 07:37 AM
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Its to bad as Trinnov looked to be an excellent room correction system if implemented properly.

Well, if you're looking for a pre/pro, the good news is that Outlaw will have Trinnov in their new unit. I would assume that their involvement with the 997/972 fiasco gives them a good start on getting it right in the 998.
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post #650 of 3216 Old 03-12-2010, 09:32 AM
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I think it tells us that the Inkel /SN 972 has little capacity for upgrades via firmware to go along with serious hardware limitations that Outlaw could not live with.

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post #651 of 3216 Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 PM
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FYI: There is a very positive review of the 972 in the April/May 2010 issue of Sound & Vision magazine. The reviewer really liked the Trinnov remapping. He did criticize some things: he thought that the Trinnov remapping changed the tonal balance on some recordings( but I'm wondering if it he had the Room EQ off ). Anyway, S&V gave the 972 their "Certified and Recommended" stamp of approval, which puts it in the running for a "Product of the Year" award next year. Some quotes: "What the R-972 is truly about is Trinnov...Sherwood's latest...is a VIP: Very Important Product...the R-972 lacks a few conveniences...but so what? The newest Newcastle is a fine performer, with an Ali Baba's cave of DSP delights at hand..." This review may cause demand for 972's to go way up, considering the wide circulation of S&V. But if Sherwood doesn't get on top of their quality control, strong early demand may backfire.
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post #652 of 3216 Old 03-14-2010, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon View Post

I think it tells us that the Inkel /SN 972 has little capacity for upgrades via firmware to go along with serious hardware limitations that Outlaw could not live with.

I'd say it is more like ham and eggs. The pig is committed, but the chicken is merely involved. Outlaw can still walk away--Sherwood cannot.

Even though the 972 seriously misbehaved in my trials, I saw nothing that could not be fixed by firmware. Whether Inkel takes the time, and has the skills to totally fix it is another matter. But if the firmware fix came tomorrow--the 997 would be essentially obsolete from an HDMI perspective. Makes sense for Outlaw to move on.
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post #653 of 3216 Old 03-14-2010, 01:27 PM
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I'd say it is more like ham and eggs. The pig is committed, but the chicken is merely involved. Outlaw can still walk away--Sherwood cannot.

Gee Roger, Ive been called a lot of things in the last three days--- but a chicken? I guess its better than being the pig.
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post #654 of 3216 Old 03-14-2010, 03:26 PM
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Gee Roger, Ive been called a lot of things in the last three days--- but a chicken? I guess its better than being the pig.

And that's no eggs-aggeration.
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post #655 of 3216 Old 03-15-2010, 07:47 AM
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post #656 of 3216 Old 03-15-2010, 12:57 PM
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I would think the S & V review would mention the speaker endangering volume spikes that a couple forum partisipants and I gave been dealing with, if he had experienced them.

So- either they were not using HDMI (would that be unlikely?) or they were treated to a special firmware upgrade where this has already been fixed.
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post #657 of 3216 Old 03-16-2010, 09:19 AM
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I never got any sudden noises from the R-972 I reviewed - if I had they would have been mentioned in my review (coming soon in Widescreen Review magazine). At least not anything remotely loud enough to startle or damage anything in the system. There were some very low level hums or pops - but I've heard worse in a $4000 surround processor. I'm not saying the 972 is bug-free, just saying sudden loud noises were not a bug I experienced.

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post #658 of 3216 Old 03-16-2010, 04:06 PM
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I had this issue with the two units I had for review. The first would raise up extremely loud in volume when jumping tracks on a CD or switching inputs. It would also mysteriously instantly raise up in volume and then drop. The second one did this as well--at least one time that I noticed.

B.

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post #659 of 3216 Old 03-17-2010, 09:47 AM
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So the Sound and Vision review is just the print version so far? I'm not seeing it online.

Noah
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post #660 of 3216 Old 03-17-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

So the Sound and Vision review is just the print version so far? I'm not seeing it online.

You can download it if you have an online subscription to S&V( $10/year ) or you can download a pdf from hotfiles.com for free. Google "Sound & Vision April/May 2010".
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