Sherwood R-972 User Thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praedet View Post

I tired 3 HDMI sources (Computer, Oppo BDP-83, Roku), 2 digital (1 coax, 1 optical) and 2 analog...

No dice

Oh yeah, nothing with the radio either

On the System setup page, do you have the HDMI Audio setting on or off? It should be off.

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post #1292 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 07:47 PM
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Is there a way to verify that the additional bass curves were loaded correctly into Trinnov? I updated the FW and reset and re-ran Trinnov. The bass seems better. Is there a way to select between the Flat, +3 and +6 curves? Are the curves visible somewhere in the setup menu though?

Thanks,
Matt
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post #1293 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 08:28 PM
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Steps for checking which db curve is applied.
Put the machine in standby.
To check firmware, on Standby mode, press DISPLAY and ENTER/MEMO button on the unit together.
Turn the multi control knob to the right, and DSP FLASH will be displayed. 090318/991119.
If you see 391119, it means that +6dB is applied. If it shows 691119, it means that +3dB is applied.

Manoj
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post #1294 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Is there a way to verify that the additional bass curves were loaded correctly into Trinnov? I updated the FW and reset and re-ran Trinnov. The bass seems better. Is there a way to select between the Flat, +3 and +6 curves? Are the curves visible somewhere in the setup menu though?

Thanks,
Matt

Do you have an SPL meter and test tones? You can verify that way. I do believe there is a way to check the firmware.

BTW...you do not have to reset the unit every time you load a new curve.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21768731

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post #1295 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 09:46 PM
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Just recieved my 972 today. Worked through many of the quirks mentioned here but i may have got a bad one. Its working pretty well except for Trinnov. On auto setup i get 3 tones from each speaker of my 5.1 setup but i get no results. Its always the same nothing on any channel except fr that shows 0 0 2.32. If i continue on to calibration it shows all speakers lit up on screen but no sound at all. Looks like i will be calling Sherwood tomorrow
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post #1296 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post

Just recieved my 972 today. Worked through many of the quirks mentioned here but i may have got a bad one. Its working pretty well except for Trinnov. On auto setup i get 3 tones from each speaker of my 5.1 setup but i get no results. Its always the same nothing on any channel except fr that shows 0 0 2.32. If i continue on to calibration it shows all speakers lit up on screen but no sound at all. Looks like i will be calling Sherwood tomorrow

Have you done a reset.

Another owner told me to do reset before I even get started...and I did.

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post #1297 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 11:31 PM
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in case the cheaper place runs out, there are more here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190624498004...ht_3436wt_1139

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post #1298 of 3209 Old 03-15-2012, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

As I mention above, I have also decided that the lack of Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume are not an issue for me at all:

Engaging Night Mode does seem to approximate Dynamic EQ close enough that I can't really tell much of a difference between the two.

In addition, I was surprised how well defined dialog was -- I was expecting it to be harder to make out without Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. But I found Trinnov to be doing noticeably better job of it than the combination of Audyssey XT and Dynamic EQ plus Dynamic Volume.

Interesting, as the manual (p. 75) doesn't say anything about loudness compensation:

" Night Mode/DRC : To adjust the dynamic range compression that makes
faint sound easier to hear at low volume levels.

This function compresses the dynamic range of previously specified parts of the Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD or DTS sound track (with extremely high volume) to minimize the difference in volume between the specified and non-specified parts.

This makes it easy to hear all of the sound track when watching movies at night at low levels."

Noah
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post #1299 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Have you done a reset.

Another owner told me to do reset before I even get started...and I did.

Thanks for the reply cs.

Yes i have done multiple resets. Had no sound at first that satrted working after a reset. Trinnov checks each speaker with just 3 tones( i dont have back surrounds so it hangs longer on them) but then reports back no values except the default looking numbers on fr of 0, 0, 2.32.
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post #1300 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 06:30 AM
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As promised, below are FR plots showing:

1) 0dB/+3dB/+6dB Curves and
2) Flat/Natural/Aphile1/Aphile2 Curves

Some caveats:

These were measured in a friend's 2.1 channel system - Martin Logan Prodigy mains (Big! dipole line source) + Velo DD-15 sub - measuring left channel only + sub. Although the room has been reasonably well-treated with various ASC and RealTraps products, there's no avoiding room response and others' results will certainly vary. Still, the general trends should be useful.

We also experimented with loading 0dB into position 1, calibrating, then +3dB into position 2, calibrating, and finally +6dB into position 3, calibrating, all with no reset. We had hoped that we might be able to "keep" all three curves by saving them into different positions. Unfortunately, it appears that, position aside, once you load a new curve via USB, all previous curves are overwritten.

Thanks to Sanjay and Ivan for their assistance, and to Greg, the long suffering owner, who put up with our shenanigans for many hours over a two day period.
LL
LL
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post #1301 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 07:02 AM
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After looking through many posts on this forum I have to say, we are very fortunate to have a couple experts following this and giving great advice. Thanks to Curt and Jeff

My question -- My Center channel will be below a 92" screen, should I raise the L and R channels (wall mounted speakers) above the middle of the screen to allow Trinnov to raise the center to mid screen? If so how much do I need to raise them?

Thanks, Jeff
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post #1302 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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I have the same setup. I recommend you have your L/R speakers at the vertical height you want to have for the image. You neither need nor want to have the L/R speakers higher than that. Were they higher Trinnov would be working to raise the center and to lower L/R.

Jeff
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post #1303 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JF911 View Post

After looking through many posts on this forum I have to say, we are very fortunate to have a couple experts following this and giving great advice. Thanks to Curt and Jeff

My question -- My Center channel will be below a 92" screen, should I raise the L and R channels (wall mounted speakers) above the middle of the screen to allow Trinnov to raise the center to mid screen? If so how much do I need to raise them?

Thanks, Jeff

I would mount the LR where you want the image to be (I would guess the middle of the screen in height...?)

REW...most expensive freeware ever...

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post #1304 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post

Thanks for the reply cs.

Yes i have done multiple resets. Had no sound at first that satrted working after a reset. Trinnov checks each speaker with just 3 tones( i dont have back surrounds so it hangs longer on them) but then reports back no values except the default looking numbers on fr of 0, 0, 2.32.

The best way to test this is to put the mic in front of each speaker and see if it gets a reading

if you are using an external amp or something run direct just to test

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post #1305 of 3209 Old 03-16-2012, 09:38 PM
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Thanks to all for trying to help out with Trinnov not working on my new receiver.

Now its my turn to hopefully help someone else out. Spoke to tech support today which was amazing! No computer voice menu thing and the person that actually answered the phone fixed the problem. So here is the firmware menu and versions that should have been on my r972

1)I was told to unhook the subwoofer output before stepping thru menu
2)From standby hold down Display and Enter/Menu button, then turn Multi Control one click to right to see following firmware/software(whatever it is) versions

Firmware version 1.47I
XM Part 2.16
DSP Part 10/07/15
DSP Flash 090318/020202 sometimes,can click past and back to it and get 090318/391119 (This where my new unit had an old file, mine read 090318/090415)
HDMI Part 1.11
DVP Part 09/08/19

Just to try to be clear, this fixed my unit from not reporting any values after the test tones. Its working fine now with the switching quirks most everyone else seem to have.

Really enjoying Trinnov so far, I put a movie on just to see if it was working and ended up sitting thru the whole movie
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post #1306 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 10:08 AM
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Just received my receiver yesterday, where/how do I download the newest firmware?
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post #1307 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post

Thanks to all for trying to help out with Trinnov not working on my new receiver.

Now its my turn to hopefully help someone else out. Spoke to tech support today which was amazing! No computer voice menu thing and the person that actually answered the phone fixed the problem. So here is the firmware menu and versions that should have been on my r972

1)I was told to unhook the subwoofer output before stepping thru menu
2)From standby hold down Display and Enter/Menu button, then turn Multi Control one click to right to see following firmware/software(whatever it is) versions

Firmware version 1.47I
XM Part 2.16
DSP Part 10/07/15
DSP Flash 090318/020202 (This where my new unit had an old file, mine read 090318/090415)
HDMI Part 1.11
DVP Part 09/08/19

Just to try to be clear, this fixed my unit from not reporting any values after the test tones. Its working fine now with the switching quirks most everyone else seem to have.

Really enjoying Trinnov so far, I put a movie on just to see if it was working and ended up sitting thru the whole movie

AcousticSoul,

Just sent you a PM. I also have a different DSP Flash version. Did they send you a new file? Not sure if it would help my problem with the R-972 recognizing my Martin Logans but this unit seems to be "sensitive". I got it to finally find my left speaker with just 3 bursts but won't do my right even though it has the same distance, spl, toe-in and rake as the left.
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post #1308 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Interesting, as the manual (p. 75) doesn't say anything about loudness compensation:

...

You are right, of course.

But when I first tried Night Mode and wrote this, it was actually late at night and to my ears, the compression sounded like it bumped up the bass a bit.

Of course, it could have been sheer enthusiasm -- we often hear what we want when we press a button....

Anyway, I have since turned Night Mode off, since I find that it muddles the sound a bit, plus Trinnov in 3D mode seems to make things so crystal clear and so distinct, even at low volumes, that I don't think it needs anything else.

But with or without loudness EQ, the R-972 sounds significantly better than Audessey XT sounded in my room, with or without Dynamic EQ or Volume EQ.

And that's not just a product of my enthusiasm, that's THE reason for it.
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post #1309 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereojeff View Post

I have the same setup. I recommend you have your L/R speakers at the vertical height you want to have for the image. You neither need nor want to have the L/R speakers higher than that. Were they higher Trinnov would be working to raise the center and to lower L/R.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twylight View Post

I would mount the LR where you want the image to be (I would guess the middle of the screen in height...?)

Raising the center to the height of the L/R would use just the L/R and no center, unless Trinnov is using psychoacoustic freq response manipulation in addition to phantom imaging, which it of course may well be.

Noah
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post #1310 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

We also experimented with loading 0dB into position 1, calibrating, then +3dB into position 2, calibrating, and finally +6dB into position 3, calibrating, all with no reset. We had hoped that we might be able to "keep" all three curves by saving them into different positions. Unfortunately, it appears that, position aside, once you load a new curve via USB, all previous curves are overwritten.

Thanks to Sanjay and Ivan for their assistance, and to Greg, the long suffering owner, who put up with our shenanigans for many hours over a two day period.

Right after our unsuccessful attempt at saving multiple curves on Greg's receiver, Ivan and I went over to Manoj's place, where he demonstrated that he apparently had two different curves (+3dB and +6dB) saved to different positions, confirmed by his measurements and our listening. I don't know if Manoj is using different steps to save the curves or whether there is some unit to unit variation in firmware that allows his receiver to do this. If anyone else has been successful in saving more than one curve, please chime in.

Sanjay
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post #1311 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Right after our unsuccessful attempt at saving multiple curves on Greg's receiver, Ivan and I went over to Manoj's place, where he demonstrated that he apparently had two different curves (+3dB and +6dB) saved to different positions, confirmed by his measurements and our listening. I don't know if Manoj is using different steps to save the curves or whether there is some unit to unit variation in firmware that allows his receiver to do this. If anyone else has been successful in saving more than one curve, please chime in.

I could swear I heared a difference with my setup and the different saved positions...and I followed what Manoj told me to do.

After Ken posted his findings, I chalked it up to psycho-acoustics. I did reload the +3dB curve, but have not made any more measurements/calcs/saves.

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post #1312 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I could swear I heared a difference with my setup and the different saved positions...and I followed what Manoj told me to do.

After Ken posted his findings, I chalked it up to psycho-acoustics. I did reload the +3dB curve, but have not made any more measurements/calcs/saves.

Heh, that's why it took us two days. We figured we must've done something wrong on day one and on day two we made double-damned sure we followed the published process - with the same results.

We need a videotape of Manoj's process. Or, as Sanjay says, it could be unit dependent, but that seems to me unlikely.
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Well, I didn't do anything special. Loaded 3db firmware, did measurement, saved the results. After the unit was on, updated to 6db curve. Put machine to standby. Turn on, do another measurement and save. Jin from Sherwood had told me that for the curves will only be effective after re-doing the measurements again. Because the target curve is taken into consideration during the calculation.

Curtis- will it be possible for you to do some quick measurements? That would help us understand whether I simply got lucky. :-)

Manoj
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post #1314 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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I just played a 60hz tone with all three positions and the measurement was the same every time.

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post #1315 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 04:22 PM
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I guess I did something funky then. Well, time to do few more measurements and observe accurately what I am doing.

Manoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I just played a 60hz tone with all three positions and the measurement was the same every time.

Try playing something further away from the crossover point, like a 40Hz or 30Hz tone.

Sanjay
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post #1317 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adude View Post

I guess I did something funky then. Well, time to do few more measurements and observe accurately what I am doing.

Manoj, if you could bust out REW or some such and capture some FR graphs, that would be ideal. If you like, I could pay you a visit to do this. Just let me know via PM.
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post #1318 of 3209 Old 03-17-2012, 04:56 PM
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Ken,

I have rebuilt my pc, so it would take some time to install REW and configure. Offcourse, you are welcome to visit anytime.

After we spoke on Thursday, I took some measurements with RS SPL meter and Sine wav test tones at different frequencies from 18 to 100. There was consistently difference between two position, max difference being 4 db. I only have measurements for +3db and +6db curves. I can post these if needed.

Manoj
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post #1319 of 3209 Old 03-18-2012, 01:44 AM
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Acoustic Soul initially reported successful data acquisition but failure in filter construction. When I was doing lots of Trinnov calibration I occasionally had that problem also.

After data acquisition is complete, it is possible to try to continue before the full results table is populated. I've done it. This results in an unsuccessful calibration. So my recommendation is to wait 30 seconds or so after Trinnov completes data acquisition (until the results table is fully populated) before telling the receiver to move on and calculate the filters.

Jeff
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post #1320 of 3209 Old 03-18-2012, 05:20 AM
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I'm going to play with a brand new 972 today.

Are there steps I should take prior to going through a complete setup, such as a hard reset of the unit or loading current firmware? If "yes" how do I go about those steps?

Thanks.
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