Sherwood R-972 User Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 3220 Old 09-15-2009, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that I have used the R-972 for a few days, my issues.

1. There does not appear to be any real time alteration of many of the sound properties. To change anything but surround mode you have to go into setup - Quick Audio ref./Adjust where you can change things such as Trinnov position /room eq,/spatial mode/ remapping, center and subw level as well as tone control. When I enter this I lose audio such that there is no real time monitoring of those changes. Surround mode is in real time but even with that there is a significant delay as it switches from mode to mode...
2. When I do go into setup mode and I come back out, I lose video from the source I was watching and the only way to restore it is to switch input sources and then go back to my original video source I was watching
3. The video scaler cannot upscale 480p. This may just be the nature of all scalers, I don't know. Most of the programs on my DVR are from cable HD channels which I believe for my cable provider are broadcast in 720p. The scaler has no problem upscaling these to 1080p for my display. But for non HD channels broadcast in 480p it is unwatchable such that I have to go into setup and change the scaler depending on what I am watchingTedious.
4. Neither of my USB players (Hong Kong Shuffle and Nano Knockoffs) would work on the USB input while a generic thumb drive did work.


Many of these issues may be related to older firmware ...how do I go about getting firmware updates?
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post #2 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 03:09 AM
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Will be interesting, when the next "new owner" (if any) will place a comment here ...
... or did they sell their only prototype
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post #3 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 06:24 AM
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Hi Deegggo.

I can't comment directly as I own a r-872. Similiar generation, lower spec. unit.

But I can get great upscaling of 480 content to 1080P on my unit. In fact, it's my main use for video processing - all my family's favority content is non-HD, badly compressed BBC programming from Time Warner. I'd assume that your unit would at least equal this with proper setting up.

I've also been treated to a firmware upgrade. I explained my issue to them support@sherwoodamerica.com and I got two files and instructions. Although personally, I'd probabaly go back to your dealer and have them give do it for you...
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post #4 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 01:37 PM
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Please send me your email address so I can get you the updates.

jeff@sherwoodamerica.com
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post #5 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 03:44 PM
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"Now that I have used the R-972 for a few days, my issues.

1. There does not appear to be any real time alteration of many of the sound properties. To change anything but surround mode you have to go into setup – “Quick Audio ref./Adjust” where you can change things such as Trinnov position /room eq,/spatial mode/ remapping, center and subw level as well as tone control. When I enter this I lose audio such that there is no real time monitoring of those changes. Surround mode is in real time but even with that there is a significant delay as it switches from mode to mode...
2. When I do go into setup mode and I come back out, I lose video from the source I was watching and the only way to restore it is to switch input sources and then go back to my original video source I was watching
3. The video scaler cannot upscale 480p. This may just be the nature of all scalers, I don’t know. Most of the programs on my DVR are from cable HD channels which I believe for my cable provider are broadcast in 720p. The scaler has no problem upscaling these to 1080p for my display. But for non HD channels broadcast in 480p it is unwatchable such that I have to go into setup and change the scaler depending on what I am watching…Tedious….
4. Neither of my USB players (Hong Kong Shuffle and Nano Knockoffs) would work on the USB input while a generic thumb drive did work. "



1. Not really user adjustable, but has settings or "curves" much like my wife's Sony mini system, "rock", "pop" , "jazz" etc.

2. Sad, never should have slipped past beta.

3. May just be that your box is doing a terrible job de-interlacing. Sad if it slipped through beta if it is in the rev.

4. No one at Sherwood own's an i-pod?

Don't worry the new rev will fix everything that has turned up so far...
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post #6 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. View Post

1. Not really user adjustable, but has settings or "curves" much like my wife's Sony mini system, "rock", "pop" , "jazz" etc.

2. Sad, never should have slipped past beta.

3. May just be that your box is doing a terrible job de-interlacing. Sad if it slipped through beta if it is in the rev.

4. No one at Sherwood own's an i-pod?

Don't worry the new rev will fix everything that has turned up so far...

I'm pretty sure he's still running beta firmware if he found this unit for sale someplace.

Are you going to clog this topic up with anti-Sherwood posts also? Do you own an R-972?
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post #7 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

Are you going to clog this topic up with anti-Sherwood posts also? Do you own an R-972?

Yes, please go dump on some other thread. Better yet, find something to do that isn't pointless and annoying. Your posts contribute nothing to this discussion.
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post #8 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 06:11 PM
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agreed:

boston steve - frankly, please piss off somewhere else about some *new* topic.

the relatively small audience in avs knows ALL about how poorly you've been done by... let's just say for the sake of arguement, we completely agree - do we have to hear over and over and over and over about it?
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post #9 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 07:01 PM
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Agreed +1.
I put Steve on my ignore list months ago, while following the other 972 thread, but it's still very annoying the way he (and others like him) drag these threads off-topic.
Maybe they ought to start a "S/N Bashing" thread. Probably wouldn't work, as those kind of folks would rather rain on someone else's parade...
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post #10 of 3220 Old 09-16-2009, 09:09 PM
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I know you guys have a Sher-woody for this thing but c'mon, the only reviews are from one guy with one a bedroom system (3.1 if I remember correctly) and another casual user that just pointed out all the bugs that prevented it from shipping last month. I was merely suggesting a "bug" thread because I know from experience it hasn't been beta tested 100%.
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post #11 of 3220 Old 09-17-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. View Post

I know you guys have a Sher-woody for this thing but c'mon, the only reviews are from one guy with one a bedroom system (3.1 if I remember correctly) and another casual user that just pointed out all the bugs that prevented it from shipping last month. I was merely suggesting a "bug" thread because I know from experience it hasn't been beta tested 100%.

Your post was obvious Sherwood bashing, especially the not-so-subtle comparison to your wife's mini system.

The OP listed his issues and was quickly directed to update his firmware. I think any comments based on a beta unit with old firmware should be taken with a several heaping helpings of salt.

That said, once I get my R-972, if it has these bugs, it will probably go back. I'm no Sherwood fanboy, I'm simply looking for good audio and would like to read comments from other owners--not people who are known to be unhappy with the brand and can't contribute to the actual topic at hand.
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post #12 of 3220 Old 09-17-2009, 06:21 PM
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Betas should never hit the street, again this demonstrates Sherwood's inability to deliver a finished product. Believe me, it's still not a "finished product" as more bugs are yet to be discovered I'm sure.
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post #13 of 3220 Old 09-17-2009, 07:26 PM
 
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And many more instances in this thread when a certain someone finds that he loves the sound of his own voice. This is really getting tedious.
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post #14 of 3220 Old 09-18-2009, 04:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve. View Post

I was merely suggesting a "bug" thread because I know from experience it hasn't been beta tested 100%.

You were not suggesting a bug thread, you were tryign to turn this thread into a bug thread. The solution is to create a bug thread if that is what you want. This thread is for people who own the product to post their findings.

Creating a new thread is simple, and it allows you to post whatever you want. A bug thread is a perfect place to crap on a product about its defects.

I crap on S/N when they deserve it, and they certainly have deserved it many times. This thread is not a place to do it, though.
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post #15 of 3220 Old 09-18-2009, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post


I crap on S/N when they deserve it, and they certainly have deserved it many times. This thread is not a place to do it, though.

I agree. I have questioned many times S/N's inability to get the R-972 to market. But I also feel R-972 users/owners should be able to post in this thread without all the BS from certain members. It is quite clear who they are and that they have no intention of buying the R-972. So their only reason for posting in the R-972 threads is to stir the pot.

As suggested let the select few start a "Lets bash S/N" thread and they will be happy as will the actual owners of the R-972. Of course I can see the reply "well there are no owners" already but give it time and we might all learn something about the R-972.

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post #16 of 3220 Old 09-18-2009, 01:20 PM
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You guys are right, I'm sorry. I won't pollute this thread any further.
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post #17 of 3220 Old 09-18-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deegggo View Post

Now that I have used the R-972 for a few days, my issues.

1. There does not appear to be any real time alteration of many of the sound properties. To change anything but surround mode you have to go into setup - Quick Audio ref./Adjust where you can change things such as Trinnov position /room eq,/spatial mode/ remapping, center and subw level as well as tone control. When I enter this I lose audio such that there is no real time monitoring of those changes. Surround mode is in real time but even with that there is a significant delay as it switches from mode to mode...
2. When I do go into setup mode and I come back out, I lose video from the source I was watching and the only way to restore it is to switch input sources and then go back to my original video source I was watching
3. The video scaler cannot upscale 480p. This may just be the nature of all scalers, I don't know. Most of the programs on my DVR are from cable HD channels which I believe for my cable provider are broadcast in 720p. The scaler has no problem upscaling these to 1080p for my display. But for non HD channels broadcast in 480p it is unwatchable such that I have to go into setup and change the scaler depending on what I am watchingTedious.
4. Neither of my USB players (Hong Kong Shuffle and Nano Knockoffs) would work on the USB input while a generic thumb drive did work.


Many of these issues may be related to older firmware ...how do I go about getting firmware updates?


Hi deegggo,

thanks for your observations so far, hopefully Sherwood will correct your issues in an software update. Could you tell us whether the unit allows you to create and store more than one curve for Trinnov or are there just presets and it only allows a single curve ?

Truth
Malice may attack it
Ignorance may deride it
But at the end of the day there it is
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post #18 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if I know what you mean by different curves, the choices are Trinnov off or on. If it is on you can calibrate using the microphone at 3 listening positions. (Rather than actual physical locations you could run different profiles with different room acoustic properites - i.e. change in furniture placement, drapes open / closed, etc). But when Trinnov runs it is all automatic calculating horizontal angle, vertical angle, distance, -6dB point, Level and delay for each speaker.
If Trinnov is off you can manually set 2 profiles - ref 1 and ref 2 which can be stored in memory. Manual profiles adjust speakers used, cross over frequency for each, speaker distance, speaker level trim, LFE level. There is no adjustment for horizontal and vertical spatial adjustment like Trinnov calculates within the manual mode.
If you are using Trinnov EQ for each position you can adjust:
1. Room EQ -
A. flat
B. Phile 1 - to adjust the frequency response of the all the speakers except the front speakers to match to characteristics of the front speakers.
C. Phile 2 - To adjust only the low frequency response of all the speakers to correct for the acoustic properties of your room.
D. Natural - to adjust the frequency response of all the speakers with a modest boost below 200 Hz and a slight cut above 10 kHz

2. Trinnov Spatial mapping
A. DLY + LVL - The distance and speaker levels are compensated so that all speakers seem to be the same distance from the listener and all speakers seem to be the same level.
B. Autoroute - each input channel is routed to the nearest speaker, according to the input stream format and to the ITU standards
C. 2D remap - no elevation compensation is done, the remapping calculation takes into account the coordinates of the speakers in the horizontal plane only.
D. 3D Remap - the remapping matrix is computed according to all the Trinnov criteria in order to produce the best spatial correction

3. Trinnov Remapping
A. Cinema - front speakers are suppose to be +22.5 and -22.5 degrees from the center channel
B. Music - the are supposed to be +30 and -30 degrees
4. Cinema EQ - on or off - on to compensate for edgy or shrill move sound tracks.

I prefer natural Room EQ and 3D remap. Does that answer your question?
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post #19 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I am wondering if anyone knows what the -6dB point refers to within the Trinnov calulations and more specifically why one of my front speakers is significantly different than all the other speakers - does that indicate a problem with that speaker?
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post #20 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deegggo View Post

I am wondering if anyone knows what the -6dB point refers to within the Trinnov calulations and more specifically why one of my front speakers is significantly different than all the other speakers - does that indicate a problem with that speaker?

I would presume that the -6dB point is the frequency at which the speaker is 6dB down from the baseline speaker output. That would be a speaker roll-off point from which it calculate appropriate crossover points.

How different are your readings? I haven't used Trinnov, but I'd expect each model of speaker in your room to have a different -6dB point with some minor variation between speakers of the same model. If your right was significantly different from your left, I guess it would be possible that one could be placed in the room such that it is experiencing a null that Trinnov is picking up on. That's just a guess, though - could be totally off base.

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post #21 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 08:52 AM
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Hello,
I am really intrigued by this AVR and am planning on purchasing it as soon as I can find one. Trinnov really sounds like a game changer. That coupled with Reon really has me sold. I have been using Reon the past two years and really think it really can help make non HD sources look their best.

Deegggo, how much of a difference of you noticed with Trinnov engaged compared to being off? I have not followed the earlier threads as they seemed to denigrate into an abyss due to an outspoken few. So forgive the question is asked a billion times prior.
Cheers,
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post #22 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deegggo View Post

I am wondering if anyone knows what the -6dB point refers to within the Trinnov calulations and more specifically why one of my front speakers is significantly different than all the other speakers - does that indicate a problem with that speaker?

Could you swap front speakers and see what happens ?
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post #23 of 3220 Old 09-19-2009, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Locomo,
Thanks for the suggestion (WDITOT)! Yup - that one speaker still comes in around 300 Hz while the other one is at 20 Hz and most all the other speakers are in the 25 - 60 Hz range....When I run manual test tones, its tonal quality is different - must of been damaged along the way....

Hello Audiodock,
Understand I am not a very critical listener - see above ( speaker issues) and I have a high frequency sloping hearing loss with thresholds around 60 dB at 8K. Given those limitations I would describe the Trinnov on sound as more open - the acoustic stage seems much bigger and the sound fuller....However, I would comment that I would NOT call it a "WOW blow me away" kind of difference
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post #24 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 10:39 AM
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Thanks deegggo for sharing your experiences. I have a question, as I understand it the speaker remapping (together with other techniques) would allow sounds to be heard all around you. Even if you sit back against a wall, sounds would seem to come from behind you anyway.
Can you comment on this?
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post #25 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 11:16 AM
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"Even if you sit back against a wall, sounds would seem to come from behind you anyway."

That's the first I've heard of that.

May be possible, but it seems setup would have to be done w/the mike in that position.

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post #26 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Even if you sit back against a wall, sounds would seem to come from behind you anyway."

That's the first I've heard of that.

May be possible, but it seems setup would have to be done w/the mike in that position.

Might just be my imagination, I don´t know. I was thinking that a sofa is placed against a wall and the surrounds are to the left and right of the sofa. And the measurements are done with the mike at the mid seating position that would be the sweet spot.
According to the pictures I have seen of the speaker remapping, the virtual speakers would be placed to left and right of the sofa, but a bit behind the wall.
Hope you get the picture.
I thought it was supposed to work, I mean, how many have the sofa in the middle of the room? Isn´t it most often placed against a wall?
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post #27 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 03:40 PM
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"how many have the sofa in the middle of the room? "

I swing mine out from a side wall to the middle, but you're right, most people probably have it against the wall.

I'm sure Trinnov will improve it, but that's a tough nut to crack and likely not going to match the ideal setup.

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post #28 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 03:41 PM
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deegggo,

Do you have any HDMI video devices?

Is the 972 "playing nice" with them?

Noah
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post #29 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 05:10 PM
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I also have my listen position against a back wall due to neccessity. I've heard good things about Axiom audio's surround speakers for this less than ideal situation...

they have at 45 degrees to front, and also drivers positoned top and bottom... the geometry reminds me of a pair of mains my granddad had - and father still uses. re-coned. the brand was/is human - I've never heard anything better.

I plan on picking up a pair of them soon - the axiom's that is...
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post #30 of 3220 Old 09-21-2009, 05:11 PM
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deeego - getting 480P in now?
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