Gefen Detective (EDID issues solved?) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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My Gefen HDMI Detective should arrive today. I am reserving this thread to discuss it.

The idea is that the Gefen will keep the EDID information from the TV "live" even when the TV is off. This will keep Tivo from resetting it's resolution when the TV is powered off, at least in theory.

This is a potential fix for owners of cable boxes/Tivos and receivers which handle the TV power off in such as way that the source device changes it's output resolution settings.

A description of the setup and whether it works will be forthcoming

Note that it's probably not in the budget for everyone seeing as how it's just over $100 for a little box that does nothing but send the desired EDID to your receiver when your TV is off.

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post #2 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 12:25 PM
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WOW-this sounds like what I need. I'm trying to "trick" the Arcam receiver to decoding lossless soundtracks/audio only from the sources HDMI output (using a two output switcher). When I try to send the audio and not have the receiver hooked up to the video, I get 2 channel only...only when I have the projector attached does the source send and Arcam decode the full 5.1 or 7.1 lossless audio soundtrack. I prefer to take the Arcam out of the video loop and send the video source straight to the projector. The Arcam is just too buggy in handling and playing nice with the Planar projector.

I would love to hear your feedback.

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post #3 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 01:00 PM
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Also very interested. In the bedroom, I have a JVC receiver (only will pass up to 1080i HDMI) and an early 42" Westinghouse 1080p LCD monitor and have trouble getting and maintaining an HDMI-HDCP sync every time I switch the monitor on from an off state. I've been thinking it's an EDID thing. I was going to get a DVI Doctor from Monoprice (Gefen also makes or used to make one), but if this Gefen HDMI Detective looks promising, I may consider it. Anxiously awaiting your report.

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post #4 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Review - partial. (EDITED!)

The device came with a locking HDMI cable (nice, I needed one), power supply and a mostly legible manual.

The locking cable locks into the box, a nice touch.

The manual has an error which makes me suspect it's accuracy. In one spot it says to set all switched off (down) position. Off is up. Stuff like that wastes my time, because I start question everything in the manual. You may know how this is. Or not

First I tried a default EDID setting via the DIP switches on the box. The Tivo would display an image, then lose it.

I tried programming it a few times with mixed results. The XBox 360 was happy, the PS3 would display nothing, and the Tivo would sometimes display and then stop.

Hmmm.

Ok, I tried hooking it to the Tivo directly. This worked, but even with the preprogrammed setting that looked like it should have supported all audio, DD was not being sent.

Hmmmm

I called tech support and left a callback number in case they had ideas.

In the meantime, I tried yet one more preprogrammed setting with the Gefen connected to the TV. It worked. I should point out that I actually made a mistake and set switch 4 to the on position rather than switch 3! And that matches nothing in the manual. Huh?

Ok, this is the deal. Read ALL the manual. You need to set switch 4 for HDCP!! Not having HDCP on would explain Tivo displaying an image only for a second, I think. I assume I am now using the programmed EDID rather than a preset.

So far all devices seem to display and hold the display and output proper audio. And, the reason I bought it to keep Tivo at the resolution I set, also seems to work. I can power cycle the TV and it will hold it's setting so far.

Another side benefit is that music does not interrupt when the TV is powered off, as expected.

I don't want to give this the MichaelJHuman seal of approval yet. I will do a follow up post after having it in the system for a week or two to ensure nothing is amiss.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 06:37 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. I placed an order for one at Amazon, but they currently don't have one in stock. I want to make sure I have a hassle free 30 day return policy incase it doesn't work for my needs, plus the price was right vs ordering from Gefen directly.

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post #6 of 32 Old 09-29-2009, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I bet it will work for you. Just turn the HDCP switch on

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post #7 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 03:29 AM
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I remember how great their DVI detective worked. It allowed us to send 1080p/24 thru some devices that didn't want to accept it at the time. That was before we could "force" it with some HD DVD and Blu ray players.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
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post #8 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 03:46 AM
 
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We've used Ethereal signal restorer with great success but a bit pricey.
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Gefen is about $100 cheaper.

I am not sure if the Gefen does exactly the same thing, though.

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post #10 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

We've used Ethereal signal restorer with great success but a bit pricey.

I don't think they provide the "exact" same function. The Ethereal DAD restores the signal for the projector to sync with the source component. I use one due to the long run I have with my set up.

Where the Gefen HDMI Detective takes the projector's signal and communicates to the source component so they think the projector is still present, even if the projector is turned off. So to a degree they do a similar function, but at different ends of the loop. Unfortunately with HDMI and HDCP we need these pricey little gadgets to make some of our systems/set ups run smoothly.

I'm hoping to use the Gefen to tricking the Arcam receiver that it's connected to the projector, so source component will transfer and the Arcam will decode the lossless soundtracks...otherwise all I'll get is the downconverted 2 channel soundtrack, if the projector is not in the loop.

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post #11 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 06:57 AM
 
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The SR-1 signal restorer and DAD are not the same. The DAD corrects HDCP and EDID errors, I haven't used one YET. The SR-1 is more like an EQ to make a correct signal, we have had good luck correcting problems with this in the past. The DAD is closer to Gefen's device and if the Gefen doesn't work Michael then I'd try this.

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Originally Posted by rboster View Post

Unfortunately with HDMI and HDCP we need these pricey little gadgets to make some of our systems/set ups run smoothly.

SO TRUE!!!!

Bob
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post #12 of 32 Old 09-30-2009, 07:31 AM
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Here's a copy of the manual for anyone that is interested

http://www.gefen.com/pdf/EXT-HDMI-EDIDP.pdf

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post #13 of 32 Old 10-01-2009, 12:24 PM
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The Ethereal Restorer (SR1) and the DAD do the exact same thing for the EDID/HDCP data.
The SR1 adds to this the ability to repair/restore the high speed (A/V) data.
That is why the cost difference between the SR1 and the DAD.

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post #14 of 32 Old 10-01-2009, 01:53 PM
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Brent: I could be wrong, but I don't think the Ethereal devices do the same thing the Gefen device does.

The Gefen device copies the EDID of the projector (you literally program the device, so it copies the projector's EDID). It's then placed near the source component in the loop and sends the projector's EDID to the source component and "tricks" it to think the projector is active and hooked up/communicates to the source.

I don't see the desciptions of the Ethereal products function the same way...

again I'm not saying I'm right, but I can't find any information that says the Ethereal products do the same thing as the description provided by Gefen in the HDMI Detective manual. The Ethereal looks like it corrects the signal from the source component and communicates to the projector.

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post #15 of 32 Old 10-04-2009, 05:48 PM
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We do not (if that was inferred it was not intended as such), my comments were about the SR1 and the DAD and how they compare to each other.
What we do is strip capacitance from the EDID data stream (correcting rise time issues).
We do not replace or copy EDID, I would question legality of that as part of the EDID stream is HDCP.
However as I am not a lawyer your mileage of that statement may vary.

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post #16 of 32 Old 10-04-2009, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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The Gefen manual says all devices must support HDCP for the HDCP switch to work. If the switch is off, then Tivo, for example was failing to maintain a connection.

I am not an expert on HDCP, and I know such protocols can be tricky, but it seems like the Gefen does not work much differently than any other repeater. Some receivers on the market seem to be able to do what the Gefen does, and maintain the display's EDID even with the display off.

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post #17 of 32 Old 10-05-2009, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent McCall View Post

We do not (if that was inferred it was not intended as such), my comments were about the SR1 and the DAD and how they compare to each other.
What we do is strip capacitance from the EDID data stream (correcting rise time issues).
We do not replace or copy EDID, I would question legality of that as part of the EDID stream is HDCP.
However as I am not a lawyer your mileage of that statement may vary.

My bad. I didn't realize you were drawing a comparison between the two Ethereal products.

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post #18 of 32 Old 10-05-2009, 12:26 PM
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Gefen manual can be a bit confusing.

Position of the switches onlt matters for programming. 4th switch controls HDCP. First three let you select between an external EDID (all off) and one of 5 presets. Once you set the switches, set WR to E, connect the unit to receiving device and to power.

So I set switches 1-3 to off, 4th to on, hooked it up. What confused me here is LED glowed red, then a second later became steady green - so I assumed the device got EDID from my AVR. So I hooked it up to my HTPC, which identified it as 'GEFEN'.

Problem was, I could not get anything but a low-sampled(44 and 48kHz) 8-channel LPCM out of my 4670. The 'Supported formats' page showed no encoded formats at all. At first I thought the problem was with Win 7, or maybe the drivers, or anything. Then, I started suspecting that maybe I messed up with the HDMI Detective. So I redid the programming, and this time actually held the programming button

Sure enough, green flashed rapidly for about a second, then glowed steady. This time, PC identified the HDMI connection as 'SONY AMP' (the way it did with a straight connection), and my ATI audio setup came up populated with all the proper formats, and sampling rates up to 192kHz.

Overall, I love this little device. My HTPC setup would get all messed up anytime I turned off either TV or AVR or switched the AVR to another input. Not anymore.
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post #19 of 32 Old 10-05-2009, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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We should get a commission for this if we helped their sales

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post #20 of 32 Old 10-06-2009, 01:05 PM
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Ordered the Gefen HDMI Detective Plus just the other day. Hope it helps with the HDMI/HDCP "handshake" issue between the bedroom JVC receiver and the Westinghouse LCD monitor. Could have gone with the cheaper Monoprice DVI Doctor (with HDMI/DVI adapters), but I liked the built-in HDMI inputs on the Gefen, and, as my current bedroom setup will eventually be replaced, may end up using the Gefen between an HTPC and a Sony HDTV elsewhere in the home. I especially like the previously reported ability that this unit enables music to be played through an AV receiver without the display being on (an HDMI/HDCP incompatiblity between my Onkyo AVR and Sony display that has always bugged me). Will report on any signifcant findings (if different from already reported) when my unit arrives.

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post #21 of 32 Old 10-06-2009, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Please report even if there are no differences from the reported situation It would be good to know it works for everyone.

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post #22 of 32 Old 10-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Please report even if there are no differences from the reported situation It would be good to know it works for everyone.

Right you are! Will do. BTW, maybe a little compensation from Gefen is in order for you.

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post #23 of 32 Old 10-18-2009, 04:18 PM
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I just this morning posted a message in the HDMI forum regarding listening to sound tracks of concert Blu-Rays with my projector turned off. This box should would. I would just leave in place between by Player and its input port on my DVDO VP50. Then when I wanted to listen to audio only the receiver output will still get EDID information of my turned off projector and allow decoding. I have the nearly the same issue with my Oppo DVD-Audio player. When ever I am listening to a music DVD or CD if I turn on any HDMI device that conects to the VP50 I lose Audio from the Oppo.
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-18-2009, 04:53 PM
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The Gefen device worked for me, in eliminating the handshake problems between my Yamaha 3900 receiver and my Verizon FIOS (Motorola) HD-DVR. Every time I shut off my system for the night, the next day the DVR would constantly reset it's output resolution to 480p.

For me, this device at $100 is a no-brainer!

P.S. This has already been said, but when you are finished programming the unit, flip toggle switch 4 on to get HDCP to work properly!!! Also, I believe that the manual says to set all four switches to off initially to program EDID. Only AFTER the programming is complete should you enable switch 4 to complete the setup process.
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post #25 of 32 Old 12-04-2009, 06:00 PM
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Can I use the HDMI Detective to convince my AVR (Yamaha RX-V663) that I am running 1920x1080, when in fact I am running 1920x1200 from my NVIDIA card? I am tired of getting persistence on my LCD from running in 1080p, when it is a native 1200p monitor. I'd rather not damage this monitor.

The output will be from a Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim, and will need to still perform HDCP / PAP / Bitstreaming of Hi-Def audio formats.

Thanks!
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post #26 of 32 Old 12-08-2009, 06:23 PM
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Anyone?
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post #27 of 32 Old 12-08-2009, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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That does not sound quite right. The detective does nothing but provide a specific set of device capabilities.

It can't change the signal.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #28 of 32 Old 11-02-2012, 01:30 PM
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HI,

i tested a edid-clone from edid-clone.com especially for hdmi version, its programmable version and dip switch at side, its more comfortable than the gefens dvi detector..
i unpacked it , make the dip switch resolution ettings and work... its more plug and play than all other devices, also there exist a rs232 interface version (with windows remote software ) a bit more expensive than other manufactors, but plug and play..... great product ! ;-)
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post #29 of 32 Old 03-01-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Choge View Post

Ordered the Gefen HDMI Detective Plus just the other day. Hope it helps with the HDMI/HDCP "handshake" issue between the bedroom JVC receiver and the Westinghouse LCD monitor. Could have gone with the cheaper Monoprice DVI Doctor (with HDMI/DVI adapters)
- da Choge

Wow...never thought of using the DVI Doctor with Adapters....Has anyone tried this and does it work?
Just ordered a Gefin for my new HTPC …. (Just about ready to bring it online). That would be nice if I could repurpose the old Doctor on another system.
There are a plethora of DVI adapters out there to choose from....
Could anyone recommend the right ones to try? I would be using a Blu-Ray so it needs HDCP pass-through.

Chris C
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-01-2014, 08:16 PM
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All DVI to HDMI adapters are the same - it's just a passive adapter (by the spec). The signalling is slightly different but every compliant HDMI device must handle it. You will lose audio pass through. HDCP is supported over DVI just fine.
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