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Old 10-16-2009, 03:43 PM
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I posted my set up and first impression earlier in this thread. However, I am having a hard time determining if the Sub outs are truly Stereo or simply dual mono. The Rcvr does permit separate settings for trim and distance for each sub. That alone tells me the Rcvr allows time alignment and level matching, but is it just separate Mono signals? The Owners Manual is mute on this specific question. Unless I missed it the five times I have read from cover to cover

Does anyone have a confirmation on this question?

P.S. The reason for the Question. I am in communication with Ed Mullen of SVS trying to determine the best configuration for running my dual sub with the AS EQ Sub Equalizer.

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:10 PM
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has anyone found a working code to control a dish network vipr 722 hd-dvr, i'm askink this in te 807,1007,3007 and 5007 forums. i hope that i don't need to manually add the codes any help will be appreciated.. thx
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

I posted my set up and first impression earlier in this thread. However, I am having a hard time determining if the Sub outs are truly Stereo or simply dual mono. The Rcvr does permit separate settings for trim and distance for each sub. That alone tells me the Rcvr allows time alignment and level matching, but is it just separate Mono signals? The Owners Manual is mute on this specific question. Unless I missed it the five times I have read from cover to cover

Does anyone have a confirmation on this question?

P.S. The reason for the Question. I am in communication with Ed Mullen of SVS trying to determine the best configuration for running my dual sub with the AS EQ Sub Equalizer.

mono, but with seperate Audyssey calibrations for time, distance and volume
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeljedi View Post

Darn, looks like using zone2 as a trigger option disables 'pure audio'. So close!

i use zone 3 trigger for my 1007 and i'm listening to pure audio as i type, works with both hdmi and analog......
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Old 10-16-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

mono, but with separate Audyssey calibrations for time, distance and volume

sterryo,

I don't mean to be impolite and I appreciate your input, but may I ask how you know this to be a fact? Can you provide a reference or link to where you learned this information?

On the other hand if this is just your opinion, that is fine but please indicate such.

Edit: I found this text from the Onkyo Site:

"With nine amplifier channels, dual independent subwoofer outputs, and up-to-the-minute networking and AV processing, the flexibility of the 'double-0' series is unprecedented," said Paul Wasek, Marketing Manager, Onkyo USA. "You can have a full-tilt 9.2-channel theater using Audyssey DSX or Dolby ProLogic IIz"

Again, Onkyo does not specifically say Stereo Sub outs. But the above seems to suggest that. Full tilt 9.2? Sounds pretty clear and yet muddy all at the same time.

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

sterryo,

I don't mean to be impolite and I appreciate your input, but may I ask how you know this to be a fact? Can you provide a reference or link to where you learned this information?

On the other hand if this is just your opinion, that is fine but please indicate such.

no offense taken, my opinion is based on experimentation ( I run dual eD A2-300 subs) I have used the 2 subs through a 3808ci and an Onk 807 before settling on the 1007. From listening test it produces the same information to both subs (my subs are 25 feet apart) the only AVR I know of that produces stereo out is the high end denon's. the new denon 4810 is lised as a x.3 however it sends the same signal to all 3 outputs with Audyssey pinging only once and computing a composite filter. The Onk's ping each seperately as I'm sure you already know and allow seperate distance and volume tweaking.

What kind of reference are you looking for? the Onk manual desribes it's abilities as described above.....
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:20 PM
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I am not sure exactly. This could be a case of independent mono rather than true stereo output. Again I am trying to answer Ed's questions more than mine. Ed is trying to advise me how to set the configuration for the AS EQ1. In as much as if I should set it to "1 in to 2 out" or "2 in to 2 discrete outs" This is in the As EQ1 and not the Rcvr.

Upon reflection this question may be better suited in the AS EQ1 Thoughts thread. I will move there and see what I can find out.

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

I am not sure exactly. This could be a case of independent mono rather than true stereo output. Again I am trying to answer Ed's questions more than mine. Ed is trying to advise me how to set the configuration for the AS EQ1. In as much as if I should set it to "1 in to 2 out" or "2 in to 2 discrete outs" This is in the As EQ1 and not the Rcvr.

Upon reflection this question may be better suited in the AS EQ1 Thoughts thread. I will move there and see what I can find out.

have you looked at the Audyssey thread, ask Chris your question if anyone knows the creator of the Audyssey and the AS EQ1 would be the most knowledgable
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Old 10-16-2009, 05:50 PM
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If anyone does get a difinitive answer on this please post it here. Thanks.

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Old 10-16-2009, 05:58 PM
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Adam,

Thanks for the nice review.

Can you elaborate on the improvements from DSX Wide?

Does it actually image things out as far out to the sides as the Wide speakers are, or does it just make the soundstage more believable?

I'm puzzled, because what I feel is more lacking for both music and video is a sense of height, not width, yet Audyssey says and users seem to agree that DSX Wide is the bigger improvement.

Noah
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:12 PM
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Question on basic sound quality - has anyone heard both these x007's and a 705? Or an NAD receiver?

I just switched from a 705 to a Sherwood R-972 (more here if you're interested - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179978 ) and noted a significant step up in sound quality; the 705 was kind of hard and unrefined compared to the 972.

And when I got the 705 I immediately missed the warmth and refinement of the HK 535 I had previously.

What I'm hoping to hear is that there's not a family resemblance between the 705 and these big brothers.

In case you're wondering, jury's still out on the 972 until I play with it some more this weekend, and get a firmware update in a week or so.

Noah
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Old 10-16-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Adam,

Thanks for the nice review.

Can you elaborate on the improvements from DSX Wide?

Does it actually image things out as far out to the sides as the Wide speakers are, or does it just make the soundstage more believable?

I'm puzzled, because what I feel is more lacking for both music and video is a sense of height, not width, yet Audyssey says and users seem to agree that DSX Wide is the bigger improvement.

Noah,
I decided not to wait on the SN and bought a 807 Onk, liked it so much I bought a 1007, previously I owned a 805 then a 3808ci, the new Audyssey features EQ, Loudnesss and now DSX make a real world difference over the Onk 805 I owned. I haven't owned a HK since 1976 so I can't compare musically as you asked, however on DSX I can offer some experiences. I find that heights either PLIIz or DSX are best suited for sports programs and some movie effecs. The wide experience for music is hard to explain without using trite superlatives. I'm currently been listening to some of my DVD-audio discs and I feel that they sound the best I've heard. The wides really expand the soundstage and immerse you into the mix. I find that the blending of the sound between the fronts and side surrounds makes for a pleasing transition of sound and not as abrupt a jump from front to side as you would normally experience with multi track. Stereo sounds so flat to me now as I use DTS neo:6 to present a multi-channel input to DSX (DSX does not accept a stereo only signal) The stereo experience is very similar the dvd-audio sounds now. Listening to ELP's LuckyMan with it's 360 surround effects now sounds really different in 9.2, the 360 sweep blends so much better as the sound goes from L,C,R,RW,Rs, BRs, BLs, Ls,Lw many more speakers to enhance the effect. I know that you and several others were hoping that Trinnov would be a "game changer" and from your's and deegggo's comments it doesn't sound like it's going to make it. I feel that the DSX and PLIIz really can claim "game changer" status ( I know I haven't heard Trinnov yet) but I continue to be amazed with the new Onkyo, If I could afford the Denon 4810 I'm sure that it would be even better giving 11.x over Onkyo's 9.2 but I would want to add a AS EQ1 also because the Onkyo's ability to calibrate my dual sub's is a feature I wouldn't want to live w/o and Denon didn't include it in the 4810....
Yes the Wides do sound better in most applications but heights also have their place (nice to be able to change between heights and wides with a push of a remote button). DSX needs to be heard to appreciate the enhacement of the sound, kinda of like describing stereo over mono and dolby surround over stereo (it is that noticeable) I believe proper setup does make a difference unlike Trinnov you need to place speakers within the spec tolerances to best appreciate.....
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

Noah,
I decided not to wait on the SN and bought a 807 Onk, liked it so much I bought a 1007, previously I owned a 805 then a 3808ci, the new Audyssey features EQ, Loudnesss and now DSX make a real world difference over the Onk 805 I owned. I haven't owned a HK since 1976 so I can't compare musically as you asked, however on DSX I can offer some experiences. I find that heights either PLIIz or DSX are best suited for sports programs and some movie effecs. The wide experience for music is hard to explain without using trite superlatives. I'm currently been listening to some of my DVD-audio discs and I feel that they sound the best I've heard. The wides really expand the soundstage and immerse you into the mix. I find that the blending of the sound between the fronts and side surrounds makes for a pleasing transition of sound and not as abrupt a jump from front to side as you would normally experience with multi track. Stereo sounds so flat to me now as I use DTS neo:6 to present a multi-channel input to DSX (DSX does not accept a stereo only signal) The stereo experience is very similar the dvd-audio sounds now. Listening to ELP's LuckyMan with it's 360 surround effects now sounds really different in 9.2, the 360 sweep blends so much better as the sound goes from L,C,R,RW,Rs, BRs, BLs, Ls,Lw many more speakers to enhance the effect. I know that you and several others were hoping that Trinnov would be a "game changer" and from your's and deegggo's comments it doesn't sound like it's going to make it. I feel that the DSX and PLIIz really can claim "game changer" status ( I know I haven't heard Trinnov yet) but I continue to be amazed with the new Onkyo, If I could afford the Denon 4810 I'm sure that it would be even better giving 11.x over Onkyo's 9.2 but I would want to add a AS EQ1 also because the Onkyo's ability to calibrate my dual sub's is a feature I wouldn't want to live w/o and Denon didn't include it in the 4810....
Yes the Wides do sound better in most applications but heights also have their place (nice to be able to change between heights and wides with a push of a remote button). DSX needs to be heard to appreciate the enhacement of the sound, kinda of like describing stereo over mono and dolby surround over stereo (it is that noticeable) I believe proper setup does make a difference unlike Trinnov you need to place speakers within the spec tolerances to best appreciate.....

Sterryo:
I think your feelings about these new onkyos is right on target and feel exactly the same way. I don not think I could ever go back to a system without the Heights and or Wides. I tottaly agree the Music has never sounded better on my system than it does with wides and the heights can make a great difference on sports and especially action movies.

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Old 10-16-2009, 08:27 PM
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"I decided not to wait on the SN and bought a 807 Onk..."

Actually I bought the 705 to tide me over.

Very interesting about DSX.

"The wides really expand the soundstage and immerse you into the mix."

Expand in what direction? It seems that imaging things out to +/- 60 deg would often be unrealistic.

Do the Wide give an increased sense of height at all?

"I know that you and several others were hoping that Trinnov would be a "game changer" and from your's and deegggo's comments it doesn't sound like it's going to make it. I feel that the DSX and PLIIz really can claim "game changer" status ( I know I haven't heard Trinnov yet)"

Too soon to tell, really; I'm going to experiment more this weekend.

Noah
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:11 AM
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[quote=noah katz;17369710"The wides really expand the soundstage and immerse you into the mix."

Expand in what direction? It seems that imaging things out to +/- 60 deg would often be unrealistic.

Do the Wide give an increased sense of height at all?

[/QUOTE]

from what I've read te 60 deg spot is the area of the dreaded first reflection point that acoustic treatments try to mask. The DSX turns a bad reflection that is out of time alignment into a properly aligned sound wave. So no the imaging is not unrealistic but more realistic, again do yourself a favor and find someone who has a DSX wide setup and give it a good listen, I'm sure like others have said you will like it. I'm also sure some will find fault with how it sounds but I haven't heard someone complain yet. I cranked up the volume today b4 anyone got home and the louder it got the better it sounded, so far I continue to be impressed the more I throw at it.......
Wides do not seem to add height especially when compared to using the height speakers....
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Adam,

Thanks for the nice review.

Can you elaborate on the improvements from DSX Wide?

Does it actually image things out as far out to the sides as the Wide speakers are, or does it just make the sound stage more believable?

I'm puzzled, because what I feel is more lacking for both music and video is a sense of height, not width, yet Audyssey says and users seem to agree that DSX Wide is the bigger improvement.

noah katz,

I think allot of what you here, or the sound stage is related to how you have your speakers placed and orientated. In my case the sound in DSX 9.2 with the Wides active is like hearing another 40% sound. It seems to wrap around better, the side surrounds and rear surrounds are more distinct and perceptive without just sounding louder. I get a sense of better reflection and blending. Music and Movies are both equally enhanced. It is hard to explain. But I feel I can compare it to the before, I was watching a small stage presentation, and now I am watching a large stage presentation. Wider depth and stereo perception. This Rcvr also does a much improved job of surround sound processing, so some of what I am relating to you may be the result of a better processing engine in the amp.

I can tell you this, both my Wife and I can hear a major difference with this rcvr. My Wide speaker placement is only 3 1/2 feet outside of the left and rights. I have limited room on the front wall. So I don't believe I achieved the recommended 60 degree angle. You might want to try moving the wide speakers out or in and see if that makes the improvement you are missing. I also toed the wides in more than the fronts.

I hope this was of some help and I wish you good luck in figuring out the problem.

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

noah katz,

I think allot of what you here, or the sound stage is related to how you have your speakers placed and orientated. In my case the sound in DSX 9.2 with the Wides active is like hearing another 40% sound. It seems to wrap around better, the side surrounds and rear surrounds are more distinct and perceptive without just sounding louder. I get a sense of better reflection and blending. Music and Movies are both equally enhanced. It is hard to explain. But I feel I can compare it to the before, I was watching a small stage presentation, and now I am watching a large stage presentation. Wider depth and stereo perception. This Rcvr also does a much improved job of surround sound processing, so some of what I am relating to you may be the result of a better processing engine in the amp.

I can tell you this, both my Wife and I can hear a major difference with this rcvr. My Wide speaker placement is only 3 1/2 feet outside of the left and rights. I have limited room on the front wall. So I don't believe I achieved the recommended 60 degree angle. You might want to try moving the wide speakers out or in and see if that makes the improvement you are missing. I also toed the wides in more than the fronts.

I hope this was of some help and I wish you good luck in figuring out the problem.

i definitely agree with your assesment of the sound. in order to get the proper angle i had to place the wides on the side wall, from what i've read the angle is more important then the front wall placement and Audyssey trims the volume so everything reaches you at the same level....
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

mono, but with seperate Audyssey calibrations for time, distance and volume

I was originally looking at the Audyssey Sub Eq for my two ULS-15s when these new Onkyos came on my radar. Does the on-board Audyssey in the *007 receivers do room correction for the two subs independently as well as creating the time, distance and volume solutions?

Panasonic P65ZT60 display, Marantz SR7008 AV receiver, Paradigm Studio CC-490 v.5 center, Studio 60 v.5 fronts, Studio 20 v.5 rear/surround, Polk Audio OWM3 high and wides, HSU ULS-15 Dual Drive, Oppo BDP-103, DirecTV HR24 Receiver w/1TB drive, XBox 360, Logitech Harmony One
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keef95 View Post

I was originally looking at the Audyssey Sub Eq for my two ULS-15s when these new Onkyos came on my radar. Does the on-board Audyssey in the *007 receivers do room correction for the two subs independently as well as creating the time, distance and volume solutions?

from what Chris@Audyssey said in his thread yes it does
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:27 PM
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Adam, sterryo, thanks for the responses, sounds like I need to hear it, which isn't to say I'm at all skeptical.

"from what I've read te 60 deg spot is the area of the dreaded first reflection point that acoustic treatments try to mask. "

The angle of the 1st reflection would be 60 deg only for particular combinations of locations of the speakers, walls, and listeners.

Noah
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Adam, sterryo, thanks for the responses, sounds like I need to hear it, which isn't to say I'm at all skeptical.

"from what I've read te 60 deg spot is the area of the dreaded first reflection point that acoustic treatments try to mask. "

The angle of the 1st reflection would be 60 deg only for particular combinations of locations of the speakers, walls, and listeners.

yeah, it is a generazition, but not mine, i gleaned it from Chris@Audyssey

your welcome Noah, I know that you have to take the blount of negative SN feedback, I think you have done well in keeping objective (SN sure hasn't helped you, good luck with your discovery this weekend, maybe you'll find some setting that you've missed and things will work better)
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:06 AM
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Can anybody else that has the 5007 tell me if the blue led on their voulume dial only illuminates at the top of the dial? Thats what mine does but I see to remember in previous Onkyo's the ring around the entire dial was lit blue.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tboo View Post

Can anybody else that has the 5007 tell me if the blue led on their voulume dial only illuminates at the top of the dial? Thats what mine does but I see to remember in previous Onkyo's the ring around the entire dial was lit blue.

Only on the top and only on the dimmers brightest setting.

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Old 10-18-2009, 09:58 AM
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Hi Adam,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

I am not sure exactly. This could be a case of independent mono rather than true stereo output. Again I am trying to answer Ed's questions more than mine. Ed is trying to advise me how to set the configuration for the AS EQ1. In as much as if I should set it to "1 in to 2 out" or "2 in to 2 discrete outs" This is in the As EQ1 and not the Rcvr.

Upon reflection this question may be better suited in the AS EQ1 Thoughts thread. I will move there and see what I can find out.

Having the 5007, SVS AS EQ1 and 2 subs, I had the same questionning...

I ended up configuring the EQ1 in "2 in to 2 discrete outs" mode. Made 32 points of measure and after that rerun 8 MutlEQ XT measures with the 5007 in 2 sub configuration, with the EQ1 being in the loop.

I used the 5007 mic for the all measures including those made by/for the EQ1.

End result is VERY good.

Hugo
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:14 AM
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Hi Noah,

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Adam,

Thanks for the nice review.

Can you elaborate on the improvements from DSX Wide?

Does it actually image things out as far out to the sides as the Wide speakers are, or does it just make the soundstage more believable?

I'm puzzled, because what I feel is more lacking for both music and video is a sense of height, not width, yet Audyssey says and users seem to agree that DSX Wide is the bigger improvement.

In my own experience DSX W increases the immersion in the sound. Personaly my favourite.

This is in opposition to DSX H which "anchors" the message to the screen (front) and heightens/deepens the image.

The result is more or less, that DSX H is more "Cinema" like, when DSX W is more "Life" like.

IMHO the best result should logically be with DSX W+H (in 11.2 (1) ) which should increase the "holographic" capacity... Very infortunately, this can't be done by the 5007.

Anyway, even with this limitation, the 5007 is really a GREAT machine.

Hugo
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william06 View Post

Only on the top and only on the dimmers brightest setting.

Ok, thanks.

Does your also say "Dolby D" on the front display when playing dobly digital sources?
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi Adam,



Having the 5007, SVS AS EQ1 and 2 subs, I had the same questionning...

I ended up configuring the EQ1 in "2 in to 2 discrete outs" mode. Made 32 points of measure and after that rerun 8 MutlEQ XT measures with the 5007 in 2 sub configuration, with the EQ1 being in the loop.

I used the 5007 mic for the all measures including those made by/for the EQ1.

End result is VERY good.

Hugo

Hugo S,

Hi back at you!

Very interesting you ran it that way. I did it the exact opposite way. Ran the 5007 XT routine w/8 positions and then ran the As EQ1 w/24 positions.

My question to you is, have you run this setup both ways and found the reverse order to produce better sound? If, you will Sir, please take a moment to explain your rationale for running your EQ setups in this order.

Second question, I know this will cost extra, what subs are you running and where in your theater do you have them placed?

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi Noah,



In my own experience DSX W increases the immersion in the sound. Personaly my favourite.

This is in opposition to DSX H which "anchors" the message to the screen (front) and heightens/deepens the image.

The result is more or less, that DSX H is more "Cinema" like, when DSX W is more "Life" like.

IMHO the best result should logically be with DSX W+H (in 11.2 (1) ) which should increase the "holographic" capacity... Very infortunately, this can't be done by the 5007.

Anyway, even with this limitation, the 5007 is really a GREAT machine.

Hugo

same goes for the 1007 and I concur with your experiences +1
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:55 AM
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Same Product, new topic.

Has anyone used/employed or simply messed around with the PQ adjustments in this unit? If, so to what effect?

It seems to me to be redundant with the PQ adjustments I have built into my TV? I can't get my head around the benefits.

If you decide to use the Rcvrs PQ adjustments to set up a Night and Day Calibration, where or how do you set the TV?

While the Rcvr does seem to offer a deeper and broader calibration palette than my TV does. What would be considered Pass thru mode on the TV? I have five possible preset Picture settings (Standard, Movie, Cal-Day, Cal-Night and Dynamic)?

The Owners Manual is pretty much no help in this regard. Any advice, opinions and suggestions would be welcome.

Regards,
Adamg
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Same Product, new topic.

Has anyone used/employed or simply messed around with the PQ adjustments in this unit? If, so to what effect?

It seems to me to be redundant with the PQ adjustments I have built into my TV? I can't get my head around the benefits.

If you decide to use the Rcvrs PQ adjustments to set up a Night and Day Calibration, where or how do you set the TV?

While the Rcvr does seem to offer a deeper and broader calibration palette than my TV does. What would be considered Pass thru mode on the TV? I have five possible preset Picture settings (Standard, Movie, Cal-Day, Cal-Night and Dynamic)?

The Owners Manual is pretty much no help in this regard. Any advice, opinions and suggestions would be welcome.

good question and your problem gets even more interesting if you run 2 outputs ie. projector and flat-screen, i haven't even tried to go down that road yet!!
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