Parasound HCA-2205A or B&K 7250 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 10-09-2009, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxman View Post

So guys, you don't think it's worth buying a 10 years old amp...in this case since chances of breaking is kinda high. Speaking of Emotiva XPA-5, that was my original plan to buy but my decision got altered after hearing advice from audiophile people that Emotiva amp isn't as refined and musical as the Parasound. So they recommended me to get a used Parasound or B&K amp instead, which got me thinking into the risk also of buying a used amp here. I know repair cost might be costly especially those amp are freaking heavy. Dilemma, dilemma,

Don't let someone convince you that you'll hear a difference between amps - 200wpc is just that - 200wpc. The differences in power supplies are only of concern if you are driving power sucking speakers and love to make your ears bleed. Just as in autos there is alway someone that will try to get you to bite on the 10 more horsepower.

Give the XPA-5 a tryout. Emotiva has a 30 day no questions asked return policy. You pay only shipping. I'd call that cheap insurance against getting stuck with something you don't want. And it comes with a 5 year warranty. That used amp will come with no such thing. And even if its a newer one - does it come with a fully transferable warranty? The XPA-5 does.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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post #32 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 07:47 AM
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Hello,
I have recommended similar advice. That is unless you have inefficient, hard to drive speakers, you might not need an amplifier as powerful as the 2205.
Nor have I ascribed any sonic qualities to the amplifiers mentioned.

If you have inefficient speakers and listen at high volumes, I would not want the XPA-5. It has the same power supply as the 2 channel XPA-2.

Phantom, click on the link I provided, actually here: PARASOUND WARRANTY INFORMATION

EFFECTIVE: January 1, 1998 - August 31, 2006

The Following Warranty Valid in the USA and Canada Only.
Outside USA: Warranty and terms/scope/duration of warranty for products purchased outside the USA is provided solely by the distributor in the country where product was purchased.

Scope and Duration of Warranty
Subject to the terms and conditions stated below, Parasound Products, Inc. ("Parasound") warrants to the original owner that this Product shall be free from defects in workmanship or materials as follows:

For Electronic Products
Excepting moving parts and lasers the warranty period is for a term of ten (10) years for parts and five (5) years for labor, from the date when the Product was purchased from an Authorized Parasound Dealer, Authorized Custom Installer, Authorized System Integrator, or Authorized Reseller.
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post #33 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

...a more powerful amplifier can make a difference in the way a speaker sounds.
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No, it can not. It might allow you to run those speaker at higher volume especially if they are low ohm speakers but while it might measure differently, it will not "make a difference in the way a speaker sounds"

But I'll leave you to it. I just wish people who make statements like "a wall of music washed over me" would take me up on my challange. If the difference was that palapable, then it should be easy for you to make $10K.
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post #34 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 08:50 AM
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Audiodork, I did follow that link. However, what they state and what they do is different. I had a long phone conversation with a service rep for Parasound whenever my amp had its problem. My manual states the same as I posted from Parasounds website. If you download and read page 11 for the HCA models you will see the same info I gave you. The price I was quoted for repairing that amp was plain ridiculous. They couldn't even give me an exact price, just an approximate cost. That price, $150 an hour plus parts and labor. Describing what it was doing they estimated a cost of between $600 to $750 not including shipping. The cost of shipping to CA was going to be over $100. Now you see where I get the "prohibitive" figure. A total price of anywhere between $700 to $850. No way this amp was worth that kind of extended output over the initial price of the thing. I politely told them no thanks and it was my last Parasound purchase. I know there are problably many of these amps out there in service after many years of use with no problems. They are good amps, but all it takes is a burn like this to sour me toward any product that cost that much after I too also expected many years of carefree service. If I ever purchase another amp it won't be a Parasound. Not while Emotiva, Outlaw, or any other respectable builder is in business. I hope you continue to get many years of carefree service out of yours, but I can not recommend their product for the cost whenever Emotiva does the same thing for 1/3 of the price.
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post #35 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 09:06 AM
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Hello,
That's the thing Phantom, the Emotiva XPA-5 has a much smaller power transformer and much less capacitance. Again, if using efficient speakers, perhaps this extra headroom is not needed. But, they are not offering the same power of 1/3 the price. That is simply not true.

I am also surprised that Parasound was not more accommodating with you about your 2205. I have owned 5 different Parasound amplifiers over the years with only one issue with a HCA-1000A. With the 1000A, I was driving it bridged using a Martin Logan Theater i. The manual stated that if bridged to not run low impedances so I view this as user error. On the whole, Parasound's CS has always been quite good. In fact, they repaired my 1000a free of charge with no issues. They even replaced the top cover which I dented with a new one without me even mentioning it.
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post #36 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 09:23 AM
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phantom52,

Did you ever consider getting it fixed somewhere else? I never use the manufacturer for out of warranty repairs, too expensive. Amps are relatively simple, and easy to fix. Most shops will give an estimate for $40-$60.

My Parasound HCA dropped both channels. Turned out it was the circuit that powered on the relay. Two 35 cent capacitors and a total of about 45 minutes to diagnose and fix, and it's been running fine ever since. I also had the relays replaced as they were quite burned, and according to the tech, some of the cheapest Chinese relays he had ever seen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

No, it can not. It might allow you to run those speaker at higher volume especially if they are low ohm speakers but while it might measure differently, it will not "make a difference in the way a speaker sounds"

But I'll leave you to it. I just wish people who make statements like "a wall of music washed over me" would take me up on my challange. If the difference was that palapable, then it should be easy for you to make $10K.

So, you are now claiming that regardless of measurements sound does not change. What is your definition of a change in sound?
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post #38 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

phantom52,

Did you ever consider getting it fixed somewhere else? I never use the manufacturer for out of warranty repairs, too expensive. Amps are relatively simple, and easy to fix. Most shops will give an estimate for $40-$60.

My Parasound HCA dropped both channels. Turned out it was the circuit that powered on the relay. Two 35 cent capacitors and a total of about 45 minutes to diagnose and fix, and it's been running fine ever since. I also had the relays replaced as they were quite burned, and according to the tech, some of the cheapest Chinese relays he had ever seen.

I did have it looked into somewhere local. After diagnosing the problem the tech here tried to get a board(RFront) from Parasound. No go. Too expensive. That's why I used only 3 channels for the last several years. It still works perfectly fine for powering up to 4 channels and I did use it for the front 3 until my purchase of the Onkyo 876. My other option was to carry it to Houston(120 miles) and pay an authorized dealer there to also look into it. Guess what? Only thing I would have saved was shipping. Still not worth it to me. Its not in use now due to the 876 being plenty of powerful enough to drive the Paradigms easy enough. I agree with AudioDork that the Parasound may be more powerful than the XPA5, but in my opinion its not nearly worth 3X the entry price if purchased new. I bought and I learned. At the the time it was between the HCA2205AT and the Sherbourn 5 channel amp. Hindsight being what it is I wish I had bought the Sherbourn. There was no Emotiva then.
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post #39 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMAN21 View Post

So, you are now claiming that regardless of measurements sound does not change. What is your definition of a change in sound?

I'm not "claiming" anything. And I don't want to derail this thread with the same old never ending argument about amps sounding differently. An amplifier is made to do one thing. Amplify sound. It is not made to "sound" any particular way at all. Perhaps a preprocessor or receiver might but that's another argument. If an amplifier is manufactured correctly and is asked to perform its job within specs, I don't believe that the human ear can hear a difference in sound between any two brands, even though they might measure differently on a test bench. I obviously admit that if trying you try to drive hard to drive speakers with an amplifier that isn't manufactured to drive lower ohm speakers you will quickly run into clipping with the loss of SQ that comes along with that. But when somebody uses two high quality amps (as was stated above) to drive speakers within spec of those two amplfiers, that to say one delivered a "wall of music" is just plain silly.

Words are easy to type. Endless argument is easy. Trying to make others appear ridiculous is common. So I say why not stop the argument. Let's put it to the test. I'm being right up front about it. I'm willing to back up what I say with more than words are you? Is anybody? It's just beyond me when somebody posts that when they listened to two high quality amps that one created a "wall of music washing over them" but then has no stomach to put it to the test. Damn, to that person this shouldn't even be a test. A wall of music washing over them is a pretty powerful statement. I say stop talking and back it up.
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post #40 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 02:20 PM
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I know it isn't on the list but I just picked up a rotel rmb-1095. It is a very nice amp. Built like a tank and has plenty of headroom.

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post #41 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

I'm not "claiming" anything. And I don't want to derail this thread with the same old never ending argument about amps sounding differently. An amplifier is made to do one thing. Amplify sound. It is not made to "sound" any particular way at all. Perhaps a preprocessor or receiver might but that's another argument. If an amplifier is manufactured correctly and is asked to perform its job within specs, I don't believe that the human ear can hear a difference in sound between any two brands, even though they might measure differently on a test bench. I obviously admit that if trying you try to drive hard to drive speakers with an amplifier that isn't manufactured to drive lower ohm speakers you will quickly run into clipping with the loss of SQ that comes along with that. But when somebody uses two high quality amps (as was stated above) to drive speakers within spec of those two amplfiers, that to say one delivered a "wall of music" is just plain silly.

Words are easy to type. Endless argument is easy. Trying to make others appear ridiculous is common. So I say why not stop the argument. Let's put it to the test. I'm being right up front about it. I'm willing to back up what I say with more than words are you? Is anybody? It's just beyond me when somebody posts that when they listened to two high quality amps that one created a "wall of music washing over them" but then has no stomach to put it to the test. Damn, to that person this shouldn't even be a test. A wall of music washing over them is a pretty powerful statement. I say stop talking and back it up.

I am not disputing that amps of equal quality will sound so different that it would be noticed. I do wonder why amps that measure differently would not make speakers sound different. Measurble differences should audible.
Otherwise most speakers would sound the same.
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post #42 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxman View Post

So guys, you don't think it's worth buying a 10 years old amp...in this case since chances of breaking is kinda high. Speaking of Emotiva XPA-5, that was my original plan to buy but my decision got altered after hearing advice from audiophile people that Emotiva amp isn't as refined and musical as the Parasound. So they recommended me to get a used Parasound or B&K amp instead, which got me thinking into the risk also of buying a used amp here. I know repair cost might be costly especially those amp are freaking heavy. Dilemma, dilemma,

There's been some pretty good reviews of Emotiva. I hope these people offering advice actually heard the Emotiva. You know some people make assumptions, especially based on price.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #43 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

I'm not "claiming" anything. And I don't want to derail this thread with the same old never ending argument about amps sounding differently. An amplifier is made to do one thing. Amplify sound. It is not made to "sound" any particular way at all. Perhaps a preprocessor or receiver might but that's another argument. If an amplifier is manufactured correctly and is asked to perform its job within specs, I don't believe that the human ear can hear a difference in sound between any two brands, even though they might measure differently on a test bench. I obviously admit that if trying you try to drive hard to drive speakers with an amplifier that isn't manufactured to drive lower ohm speakers you will quickly run into clipping with the loss of SQ that comes along with that. But when somebody uses two high quality amps (as was stated above) to drive speakers within spec of those two amplfiers, that to say one delivered a "wall of music" is just plain silly.

Words are easy to type. Endless argument is easy. Trying to make others appear ridiculous is common. So I say why not stop the argument. Let's put it to the test. I'm being right up front about it. I'm willing to back up what I say with more than words are you? Is anybody? It's just beyond me when somebody posts that when they listened to two high quality amps that one created a "wall of music washing over them" but then has no stomach to put it to the test. Damn, to that person this shouldn't even be a test. A wall of music washing over them is a pretty powerful statement. I say stop talking and back it up.

My magnepans have different voices with amp i put on them. My denon has very different voice then my Van Alstine.
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post #44 of 51 Old 10-10-2009, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fj6474 View Post

My magnepans have different voices with amp i put on them. My denon has very different voice then my Van Alstine.

Well...when its balls vs no balls...

When all else fails - RTFM!

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post #45 of 51 Old 02-06-2010, 03:00 PM
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Was an original owner of a Parasound HCA-1205A that I replaced late last year with an Emotiva XPA-5. Greater dynamics, wider soundstage and clarity was what I heard with my biamped Magnepan IIIas. Had one channel in my Parasound during it's nine year of ownership go out. Cost $200 to fix by Parasound. Luckily, I am near Parasound so shipping wasn't an issue. Unfortunately, I can't help you with the two amps you are looking at and directly compare them to the XPA-5. I have heard them but not with my own speakers and was partial to the Parasound at the time. The XPA-5 is more than enough to drive my Magnepans to extremely loud levels. And the one thing I noticed is that the XPA-5 never even runs warm unlike my Parasound which ran hot during use. So ventilation is something you need to think about with the Parasound.
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post #46 of 51 Old 07-12-2012, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxman View Post

So guys, you don't think it's worth buying a 10 years old amp...in this case since chances of breaking is kinda high. Speaking of Emotiva XPA-5, that was my original plan to buy but my decision got altered after hearing advice from audiophile people that Emotiva amp isn't as refined and musical as the Parasound. So they recommended me to get a used Parasound or B&K amp instead, which got me thinking into the risk also of buying a used amp here. I know repair cost might be costly especially those amp are freaking heavy. Dilemma, dilemma,

You cannot do much better then the B&K, not really for the money. Then you have to find a good one, well cared for, then you will have to have it serviced, unless you do not care about problems? Consider, this is an older amplifier, very good quality, yet being old, it will need a tune-up,. most likely some capacitors replaced. I would see it this way, you may find one for around $600 to $800, if you spend the time looking, try audiogon. The shop cost may be another $300, maybe a but more, but if it is too much more, then you got a bad one and may wish to return it.

The B&K are better than the Parasound, with the exception of the HCA 2200II, which is a great two channel amplifier, they have lots of power and get very hot, same with B&K, which is a consideration. If you cannot place it on top, no gear above it, and if your listening room gets above 80 degrees, it will overheat, even at lower volume! This is one drawback with all class A, even when it is just the driver stage, not the A/B output which is typical above 6 watts. These amplifiers sound very good, yet they are prone to overheating. I use a tube amplifier, which acts like a room heater; I have to watch my room temperature, particularly in the summer months.

If you want to avoid this, then buy the less high current newer models, which are more designed for HT. Just look at Krell, they do not make anything like the KSA anymore!
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post #47 of 51 Old 07-12-2012, 11:40 PM
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Onkyo TX-SR876 7.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR876-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/tech-data/B001AMSPDG/ref=de_a_smtd

140 W/Ch Minimum into 8 Ohms, 20 Hz?20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 Channels Driven, FTC

TWO CHANNELS, NOT SEVEN!

Look at a Denon 4802, read how it has 125 watts into all channels, is 150 watts at 6 ohms, quite a bit more real power; the Denon will put out more in the two main channels into 4 ohms and even more into 2 ohms! The new Denon 4312ci is not near as much amp power as the early Denon 4800, 4801, 4802, but they do not have that HDMI for audio. You buy a good preamp processor and a real full RMS rated 200 watt amplifier and you have something that will drive real speakers, not little satellite speakers with all the bass to the subwoofer.No real mid-bass, which may be alright for movies, but not music. I could not find any full channel rated AV receiver, other than an Anthem 700 that costs high dollar, and was rated 80 watts into seven channels.
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post #48 of 51 Old 07-13-2012, 05:14 PM
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I've owned the Parasound HCA 1500, 2205 and still have a HCA 3500 that I've only used as a sub amp. Traded in an Adcom GFA 7000 in on the Parasound 2205. Anybody that says the Adcom & Parasound sounded the same would have to be deaf! Everybody heard a big difference between those 2 amps! Only difference were the amps in the system. Traded the HCA 2205 in for a Mcintosh MC 206. Still have the 206. My latest amp is the B&K 200.7. After trading in the 2205 in for the Mcintosh MC 206 I kind of missed the 2205 and wished I had kept it. For home theater and full range speakers the 2205 is hard to beat. Just seems to have endless power reserves. The best bass of all the amps I've owned. I think for musicality the B&K is hard to beat. Just has an easiness and openness to its sound. Have not used it full range yet so haven't experienced the bass of the 200.7 but it keeps the great sound with a sub. I would also keep an eye out for a used ATI amp. Another great amp company! The ATI amps I've heard seemed to combine the qualities of both the Parasound and B&K amps. In fact I was ready to buy a new ATI AT- 2007 amp when I bought the B&K 200.7 but right before I was going to pull the trigger ATI raised the price approx. 50*/*. I seem to remember the Parasounds got pretty warm but the B&K's will get quite hot and will need space for the heat to escape but have never had any issues from the temp of the B&K. The B&K's use Mosfet outputs and those usually run hotter by design.
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post #49 of 51 Old 07-13-2012, 09:19 PM
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I've had my 2205A for about 10 years or so now, running 24/7 for the last 6 with no issues except I haven't been able to get the trigger to work, it may be the cable. The only thing I don't like is that it's big, heavy and hard to move around. If I had to replace it, I'd be tempted to go with a smaller, lighter class D amp like Wyred 4 Sound or D-Link.
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post #50 of 51 Old 07-14-2012, 07:04 AM
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Stranger still, here is the 2205AT's Product Flier:
"Parasound's 10 Years Part/S Years Labor Warranty"
http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/vintage/hca2205atBrochure.pdf
And here is the Warranty from the identical aside from the Faceplate HCA-2205a

I just do not get this as I sent in a 5 year old HCA-1000a that was 5 years old and there was not a question about it being still under Warranty.
And here on Parasound's Website is further explanation about the Warranty:
"
PARASOUND WARRANTY INFORMATION

EFFECTIVE: January 1, 1998 - August 31, 2006

The Following Warranty Valid in the USA and Canada Only.
Outside USA: Warranty and terms/scope/duration of warranty for products purchased outside the USA is provided solely by the distributor in the country where product was purchased.

Scope and Duration of Warranty
Subject to the terms and conditions stated below, Parasound Products, Inc. ("Parasound") warrants to the original owner that this Product shall be free from defects in workmanship or materials as follows:

For Electronic Products
Excepting moving parts and lasers the warranty period is for a term of ten (10) years for parts and five (5) years for labor, from the date when the Product was purchased from an Authorized Parasound Dealer, Authorized Custom Installer, Authorized System Integrator, or Authorized Reseller."

I just do not see how this could be different with the 2205AT as it was made in this timeframe?
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post #51 of 51 Old 07-14-2012, 07:06 AM
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Stranger still, here is the 2205AT's Product Flier:
"Parasound's 10 Years Part/S Years Labor Warranty"
http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/vintage/hca2205atBrochure.pdf


I just do not get this as I sent in a 5 year old HCA-1000a that was 5 years old and there was not a question about it being still under Warranty.
And here on Parasound's Website is further explanation about the Warranty:
"
PARASOUND WARRANTY INFORMATION

EFFECTIVE: January 1, 1998 - August 31, 2006

The Following Warranty Valid in the USA and Canada Only.
Outside USA: Warranty and terms/scope/duration of warranty for products purchased outside the USA is provided solely by the distributor in the country where product was purchased.

Scope and Duration of Warranty
Subject to the terms and conditions stated below, Parasound Products, Inc. ("Parasound") warrants to the original owner that this Product shall be free from defects in workmanship or materials as follows:

For Electronic Products
Excepting moving parts and lasers the warranty period is for a term of ten (10) years for parts and five (5) years for labor, from the date when the Product was purchased from an Authorized Parasound Dealer, Authorized Custom Installer, Authorized System Integrator, or Authorized Reseller."

I just do not see how this could be different with the 2205AT as it was made in this timeframe?
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