The Official Integra DHC-80.1 Pre/Pro - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1862 Old 02-26-2010, 08:20 AM
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Does Onkyo claim any SQ improvements by the 80.1 or 40.1 over the 9.8/9.9?
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post #722 of 1862 Old 02-26-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Interesting, that is one of the reasons I returned my Kit.

Honestly, I’m still not sure if Audyssey EQ adds anything to the SQ of my system. I turn it off and there is no loss of dialog clarity and especially with music, Audyssey seems to remove too much of that live sound of concert DVD’s. It’s like draping a blanket over the speakers.

I really wanted to like Audyssey Pro (probably due to the cool factor ) but the extra time the measurements take, weird/inconsistent Xover and level setting results, limited device support plus similar results to MultEq-XT made it an unnecessary purchase. The +/-3db FR tweaking was nice but again, I found this of limited value.

For someone with an untreated room Audyssey may be just the ticket but for me, I’d rather treat the room and forgo the secret sauce.

My results are totally the opposite. I would never be without Audyssey or its equivalent in my system. (At this point, only Anthem's ARC appears to be comparable.)

I think the results you get depend on a lot of factors. First, there are many little secrets to doing the EQ process correctly. They are summarized at the beginning of the Official Audyssey thread here at AVS. Not doing seemingly little things properly can give you a less-than-optimal calibration.

Second, there is the kind of source material you use and whether you have a frame of reference for what it should sound like. I find movies are not good for this. They are heavily into dialogue or studio mixed music without the ambience of a typical live event. And, for car crashes, explosions, etc., we have no live frame of reference for how the specific event in the movie was supposed to sound. So, we have a hard time judging movie sonic accuracy, which is what Audyssey is all about trying to improve in the system.

I personally would not use the low rez content from DVD (except DVD-A) to judge the results. I think that as a sound source is just not high enough in quality. Hi rez music is the best reference, I believe strongly. If it sounds right with music compared to live, it is going to sound at its best for movies, DVD's etc.

I am used to doing Audyssey calibrations, so a stock calibration takes less than 30 minutes. Pro takes longer, particularly if you use more than 8 mike positions, as you should. But, I finished 13 positions in about 45 minutes.

Room treatments are a good idea. But, they need to be done by someone who actually has expertise, calibration equipment, etc. because acoustics is a very tricky business. Rives, one of the best, usually uses EQ as part of their solution along with passive treatments; they make their own analog-domain EQ device for that purpose. I believe that even in an expertly treated room, though, Audyssey will always make it sound better. Passive room treatments and EQ like Audyssey really do 2 different things and I believe that they are complementary and not substitutes for one another.

Audyssey does a lot more than frequency domain EQ for the room. It EQ's for the entire chain from the prepro up to, but not including, your ears, but including the room. Also, importantly, it EQ's for the speakers. (Amps, cables, etc. are likely not going to have as major an impact on sound.) So, it makes all channels sound nearly alike, which is critcal for best imaging. Note that even identical speakers can sound differently at different locations, but Audyssey pretty much does away with that. Subwoofer integration with the other channels is also improved quite noticeably.

I hear a major improvement also from the time-domain EQ that Audyssey does concurrent with the frequency-domain EQ. My Martin-Logan electrostat hybrids tend to have a mismatch between the dynamic woofers and the 'stat panels. Many say the woofers sound sluggish by comparison. But, that's gone after my Audyssey EQ.

So, absolutely everybody who has heard Audyssey on/off in my room (a.) can hear a big difference, and (b.) strongly prefers Audyssey on.
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post #723 of 1862 Old 02-26-2010, 03:46 PM
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What people need to understand about Audyssey EQ is that it is meant to compensate for problems in the room, If the room does not have a lot of problems then the effect of Audyssey will be lessened or could even make things worse.

In my last home none of the automated EQ programs sounded better than without EQ but in my new home Audyssey definitely makes a difference. In my old home everything sounded just like RMK! described with Audyssey XT "like draping a blanket over the speakers" and the sound really opened up after turning Audyssey off. And for anyone who asks I did set-up Audyssey the exact same way at my old home and new.

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post #724 of 1862 Old 02-27-2010, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

My results are totally the opposite. I would never be without Audyssey or its equivalent in my system. (At this point, only Anthem's ARC appears to be comparable.)

I think the results you get depend on a lot of factors. First, there are many little secrets to doing the EQ process correctly. They are summarized at the beginning of the Official Audyssey thread here at AVS. Not doing seemingly little things properly can give you a less-than-optimal calibration.

Second, there is the kind of source material you use and whether you have a frame of reference for what it should sound like. I find movies are not good for this. They are heavily into dialogue or studio mixed music without the ambience of a typical live event. And, for car crashes, explosions, etc., we have no live frame of reference for how the specific event in the movie was supposed to sound. So, we have a hard time judging movie sonic accuracy, which is what Audyssey is all about trying to improve in the system.

I personally would not use the low rez content from DVD (except DVD-A) to judge the results. I think that as a sound source is just not high enough in quality. Hi rez music is the best reference, I believe strongly. If it sounds right with music compared to live, it is going to sound at its best for movies, DVD's etc.

I am used to doing Audyssey calibrations, so a stock calibration takes less than 30 minutes. Pro takes longer, particularly if you use more than 8 mike positions, as you should. But, I finished 13 positions in about 45 minutes.

Room treatments are a good idea. But, they need to be done by someone who actually has expertise, calibration equipment, etc. because acoustics is a very tricky business. Rives, one of the best, usually uses EQ as part of their solution along with passive treatments; they make their own analog-domain EQ device for that purpose. I believe that even in an expertly treated room, though, Audyssey will always make it sound better. Passive room treatments and EQ like Audyssey really do 2 different things and I believe that they are complementary and not substitutes for one another.

Audyssey does a lot more than frequency domain EQ for the room. It EQ's for the entire chain from the prepro up to, but not including, your ears, but including the room. Also, importantly, it EQ's for the speakers. (Amps, cables, etc. are likely not going to have as major an impact on sound.) So, it makes all channels sound nearly alike, which is critcal for best imaging. Note that even identical speakers can sound differently at different locations, but Audyssey pretty much does away with that. Subwoofer integration with the other channels is also improved quite noticeably.

I hear a major improvement also from the time-domain EQ that Audyssey does concurrent with the frequency-domain EQ. My Martin-Logan electrostat hybrids tend to have a mismatch between the dynamic woofers and the 'stat panels. Many say the woofers sound sluggish by comparison. But, that's gone after my Audyssey EQ.

So, absolutely everybody who has heard Audyssey on/off in my room (a.) can hear a big difference, and (b.) strongly prefers Audyssey on.

I’m happy that Audyssey works so well for you. Over the past several years I have run Audyssey MultEQ-XT at least 30 times and another 5 times with the pro version. Each time, I used the very helpful guide provided by AVS member giomania and have had the results mentioned in my post above.

We agree on one point, to achieve good acoustics in a room is “tricky business” and it is almost always a combination of passive treatments and equalization that achieve the best results. I have no idea how your room looks (do you have photos?) acoustically speaking and why it is you are able to achieve such remarkable results using Audyssey. But I can assure you that my reported results have also been confirmed by others and are in the context of this discussion equally valid. My room is treated and although my passive treatment approach has been admittedly haphazard, I did receive some casual recommendations (i.e. non-paid) from someone whom is generally considered one of the foremost experts on room acoustics on the planet, Keith Yates.

Audyssey (and I would include the Pro Kit) takes the “tricky business” of equalization and reduces it to a very simple process that anyone can do. I think it is a wonderful tool for mass market AVR/HT deployments and is certainly better than nothing. For me, Audyssey is an interesting but non-essential tool that produces mixed results. For you, it is the audio Holy Grail and that real or perceived performance delta is in and of itself interesting … no?

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post #725 of 1862 Old 02-28-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Hi All- Just got my DHC 80.1 hooked up, OMG this thing sounds amazing. I previously had a 9.9. I can tell you the overall improvement to SQ on all levels is night and day. The rest of my system is very transparent: Genesis 6.1 fronts / center / surrounds / rears, Pioneer Kuro Elite 60" display, Arcam 7ch amp, Synergistic Alpha Quad speaker wires (L/R/C), Synergistic active interconnects, Synergistic Decora surround / rear speaker wires.

You CANNOT beat the sound / features of this pre/pro for the price... period.. This unit sounds as good as pre/pros costing 3x-5x as much! (JMHO)

Anyway- check out this videoWhere do I get this sweet Ip-based remote setup software??

I'm also trying to find discrete IR codes to directly access the Inet radio and media server functions- Using the "toggle" Net/USB button does not work well when setting up my home control system macros (you have to toggle through Inet Radio > media Server > USB Front > USB Rear with the button on remote or front of unit each time).

Anyone? My remote is an MX850 - TIA

Were you ever able to get an answer on this? Where can you get the software?
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post #726 of 1862 Old 02-28-2010, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rblnr View Post

Does Onkyo claim any SQ improvements by the 80.1 or 40.1 over the 9.8/9.9?

I upgraded from the PR-SC885P (9.8) to the DHC-9.9 and the improvement was there, it is so distinct that i still have not calibrated the unit a month later just to be able to memorize the sound.

Now the 80.1 has 32 bit DACs, one for each channel (correct me if i am wrong) and should be a further improvement.

The guy who sold me the 9.9 got the 80.1 and noticed a "small improvement".
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post #727 of 1862 Old 03-01-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Kris - very strange. It did not work at all for me, and Audyssey Support told me it had to be done via the ethernet connection.

Hmm. I did it again yesterday and still had no issues via RS-232. I select Integra AVR 2 I believe and it asks for the IP address and done. No Ethernet connected at all to the laptop I use.

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post #728 of 1862 Old 03-02-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Hmm. I did it again yesterday and still had no issues via RS-232. I select Integra AVR 2 I believe and it asks for the IP address and done. No Ethernet connected at all to the laptop I use.

I tried that with the RS-232 and it just did not work - immediate communications time out. I have a 9.8 on hand, and the cable worked just fine into that under "Integra AVR". So, its not the USB/RS232 cable or my PC.

If we have any network guys out there, correct me if I am wrong, but an IP address just would not apply to a USB/RS 232 connection from the computer. Ergo, it seems to need the ethernet and that's what Audyssey told me. Both "Integra AVR" and "Integra AVR-2" got the communications timeout immediately into the 80.1 via RS232.

Are you on the latest 80.1 firmware? I am.
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post #729 of 1862 Old 03-02-2010, 06:52 PM
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Hey, anybody else notice the new 2/25/10 firmware update? It's supposed to reduce the relay clicking, among other things.
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post #730 of 1862 Old 03-02-2010, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Hey, anybody else notice the new 2/25/10 firmware update? It's supposed to reduce the relay clicking, among other things.

thanks
nice to see regular updates

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post #731 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Hey, anybody else notice the new 2/25/10 firmware update? It's supposed to reduce the relay clicking, among other things.

That's excellent news. I don't have one of these yet, but it's on the way...sort of. And the clicking was the only thing that I was hesitant about.

I'm a "victim" of the double backorder. I've already put 1/2 $ down, and am expecting it by 3/22. I'm curious what others have been told in respect to the backorder situation. Shorter wait than mine? Longer!?!

Where did all my money go?
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post #732 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jac86 View Post

That's excellent news. I don't have one of these yet, but it's on the way...sort of. And the clicking was the only thing that I was hesitant about.

I'm a "victim" of the double backorder. I've already put 1/2 $ down, and am expecting it by 3/22. I'm curious what others have been told in respect to the backorder situation. Shorter wait than mine? Longer!?!

I ordered mine on Dec. 31. I was told end of Feb. but I am still waiting.
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post #733 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 06:52 PM
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I ordered in late Jan and was told 7-10 days. Every time I call it's another "7-10 days"! Sheesh, good thing I'm not in a huge hurry!!

I want my HDTV!
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post #734 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 07:24 PM
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they r shipping the 2nd week of March.
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post #735 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 08:16 PM
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I just completed the 2/24/10 update for the DHS 80.1 via USB. It took about 10 minutes total and there is a noticeable reduction in the speaker relay switching sound. Although it still clicks, now it is barely audible. Although this feature doesn't matter to me due to the unit being outside the HT room, for those who were on the fence or had ruled out the 80.1 due to relay clicking this issue has been addressed by this update.

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post #736 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I just completed the 2/24/10 update for the DHS 80.1 via USB. It took about 10 minutes total and there is a noticeable reduction in the speaker relay switching sound. Although it still clicks, now it is barely audible. Although this feature doesn't matter to me due to the unit being outside the HT room, for those who were on the fence or had ruled out the 80.1 due to relay clicking this issue has been addressed by this update.

This is really nice to hear. I so want to purchase this unit as an upgrade on my Outlaw 950 but have been on the fence a bit with all the discussion about the clicking. At least this makes it a bit easier to wait awhile so that they will be shipping new units with the latest firmware with even a bit more fine tuning.

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post #737 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 08:52 PM
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Thanks, good news I'll have to go and do the update.


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post #738 of 1862 Old 03-03-2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by alanl715 View Post

they r shipping the 2nd week of March.

That's what my dealer told me. I ordered February 18th or so. He said they ship the second week in march and I can expect him to receive it and have it for me 3rd week in march. If I'm not mistaken, he said it's due to a double backorder. I'm glad he didn't bs me and actually contacted the mfg/distributor before feeding me some line about 2 weeks.

Where did all my money go?
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post #739 of 1862 Old 03-04-2010, 02:05 PM
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I have always been annoyed by the relay clicking. I just updated the recent firmware update and hear no improvement in the clicking noise
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post #740 of 1862 Old 03-04-2010, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smark1 View Post

I have always been annoyed by the relay clicking. I just updated the recent firmware update and hear no improvement in the clicking noise

I really had my hopes up. Sure would like to see the clicking go away. If my Dish reception weakens for a few seconds (ie the olympics broadcast) and the 80.1 is trying to re-lock on to dolby digital it sounds like a machine gun going off. Guess I'll have to try the update for myself and see if any improvement
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post #741 of 1862 Old 03-04-2010, 03:14 PM
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I had previously denied I heard any clicking, but I finally did hear the clicking. In the way I use my system, the only time I heard it so far was if I skip chapters on Blu-ray. I do not notice it on channel changes on my cable box or at any time playing Blu-rays or SACD's normally. Even if I skip to a new cut on SACD, there is no clicking. For me, this is no big deal at all.
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post #742 of 1862 Old 03-04-2010, 04:11 PM
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So does this thing heat up insanely hot like my Onkyo SR876?
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post #743 of 1862 Old 03-04-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpfrid View Post

I really had my hopes up. Sure would like to see the clicking go away. If my Dish reception weakens for a few seconds (ie the olympics broadcast) and the 80.1 is trying to re-lock on to dolby digital it sounds like a machine gun going off. Guess I'll have to try the update for myself and see if any improvement

Do the update, I don't know what smark1's issue is but the clicking is much less audible with the 02/24/2010 firmware update.

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So does this thing heat up insanely hot like my Onkyo SR876?

Warm yes, hot no.

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post #744 of 1862 Old 03-05-2010, 12:18 PM
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Do you think the units coming in March will have the 2/24/2010 update already completed?

Where did all my money go?
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post #745 of 1862 Old 03-05-2010, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jac86 View Post

Do you think the units coming in March will have the 2/24/2010 update already completed?

Who knows, but updates are a snap and the procedure is documented fairly well. You can do it via the network connection, but I would not want to do that myself for fear of something going awry. (Some Oppo owners experience this on occasion doing network updates on the BDP-83.) I use a USB memory stick and it takes less than 5 minutes, though the instructions say it takes much longer.

You should get used to doing the updates yourself, anyway. Sooner or later there are going to be more of them.
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post #746 of 1862 Old 03-05-2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jac86 View Post

Do you think the units coming in March will have the 2/24/2010 update already completed?

It would make sense for it to be included. They got the units ready to ship, the firmware has been checked so making it available on the support page. Don't I wish the unit itself can be beamed to my house just like that.

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post #747 of 1862 Old 03-05-2010, 05:51 PM
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The 80.1 that I ordered in Dec. just arrived I made it to the dealer just a half hour before he closed. Time to go get it out of the box.
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post #748 of 1862 Old 03-05-2010, 10:20 PM
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Got it hooked up and it sounds great. But then I started the FW update via the net. Looks like it did not come with the latest. And the bad news. It has been stuck at "Writing MMPU 28%" for about 20 minutes now.

Update: Left it go all night. Still stuck at Writing MMPU 28%. Instruction say if update takes over 2 hours to reset by pressing the On/Standby button, tried that and it does nothing.

Update 2: Figuring I had nothing to lose at that point I cycled power. It came up with "MMPU Setting" Then it did another download and starting "Writing MMPU XX%" It would get stuck at various % and after letting sit at that point for 15 - 20 minutes I would try again. After trying that several times I disconnected all the inputs to the for lack of any better ideas. Plugged it back in an this time it went to Step 6 in the instructions (indicates) success. Step 7 says to turn the unit off and back on using the button on the unit not the remote. I turned it off but it will not turn back on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Step 6:
Message “OK:Sum = ********” appears on the front
display of the AV receiver/controller, indicating that the
update has been completed. (Alpha-numeric characters
on the front display are denoted by asterisks.)
Step 7:
Using the [ON/STANDBY] button on the front panel,
turn off and on the AV receiver/controller.
Do not use the [ON] or [STANDBY] button on the
remote controller.
Congratulations!! Now you have the latest firmware on
your Integra AV receiver/controller.
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post #749 of 1862 Old 03-06-2010, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Who knows, but updates are a snap and the procedure is documented fairly well. You can do it via the network connection, but I would not want to do that myself for fear of something going awry. (Some Oppo owners experience this on occasion doing network updates on the BDP-83.) I use a USB memory stick and it takes less than 5 minutes, though the instructions say it takes much longer.

You should get used to doing the updates yourself, anyway. Sooner or later there are going to be more of them.

+1

Update firmware via a USB jump drive. Fast, easy and reliable.

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post #750 of 1862 Old 03-06-2010, 05:44 AM
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Does anyone know if the 80.1 allows only redirected bass to go to one of the subwoofer outputs while sending just the LFE signal to the other sub out?

This is what's gotten me onto this. See page 17 of the PDF

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/...8&d=1267655629

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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