The Official Integra DHC-80.1 Pre/Pro - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 01:39 PM
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Thanks Bill, so the Intergra DHC-80.1 doesn't have the Pure mode, so I guess my question is that the OPPO BDP-83 SE upgraded analog capabilities can't be passed thru the Intergra (even with regular cabling and not using the HDMI of course) so if Pure works like I think it does (passes the signal straight through- correct me if I'm wrong) then my only choice is to go with the Onkyo PR-Sc 5507?
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post #182 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Cars View Post

Thanks Bill, so the Intergra DHC-80.1 doesn't have the Pure mode, so I guess my question is that the OPPO BDP-83 SE upgraded analog capabilities can't be passed thru the Intergra (even with regular cabling and not using the HDMI of course) so if Pure works like I think it does (passes the signal straight through- correct me if I'm wrong) then my only choice is to go with the Onkyo PR-Sc 5507?

With either the Pure/Direct mode off the 5507 or the Direct mode of the 80.1 I do not believe it is a straight pass through. I think this applies to the 7.1 M/C input as well but again I'm not 100% positive. Maybe someone who is 100% positive will comment on this.

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post #183 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 02:09 PM
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I guess I could listen to multi-channel (audio dvd?) and or in stereo mode using regular cabling and not the HDMI connection between the Pre/pro and Oppo and hope that the BDP-83 SE improves the audio. I would switch back to the HDMI connection to take advantage of the new Panny 58V10 that I ordered (and a new 7 channel MPS-2 emotiva amp, and new speakers I'm building). 20+ years out of circulation involving Stereo / AV Home Theater is like learning to walk again, the permutations of the new technologies are mind numbing!
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post #184 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Cars View Post

I guess I could listen to multi-channel (audio dvd?) and or in stereo mode using regular cabling and not the HDMI connection between the Pre/pro and Oppo and hope that the BDP-83 SE improves the audio. I would switch back to the HDMI connection to take advantage of the new Panny 58V10 that I ordered (and a new 7 channel MPS-2 emotiva amp, and new speakers I'm building). 20+ years out of circulation involving Stereo / AV Home Theater is like learning to walk again, the permutations of the new technologies are mind numbing!

Fast Cars,

Alright you are killing me here. I am also hoping to get a 58V10 as well as the BDP-83 (non SE). I have been comparing 2 CH SQ between my 886/BD30/HDMI/Audyssey/Stereo mode with my Parasound 2100/Consonance CD-120. Here is a link to a post of my comparison in the BDP-83 SE thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post17559351

The reason I mention the comparison is that maybe you would benefit more from using HDMI and Audyssey over the analog connections of the BDP-83 SE. Before I took the time to do this comparison I really thought using HDMI/Audyssey would not sound as good as my 2100. Well I have to say I was pleasantly surprised at how well Audyssey helped with my rooms acoustics for 2 CH music listening.

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post #185 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Cars View Post

Thanks Bill, so the Intergra DHC-80.1 doesn't have the Pure mode, so I guess my question is that the OPPO BDP-83 SE upgraded analog capabilities can't be passed thru the Intergra (even with regular cabling and not using the HDMI of course) so if Pure works like I think it does (passes the signal straight through- correct me if I'm wrong) then my only choice is to go with the Onkyo PR-Sc 5507?

It should be interesting to see if the 80.1 is any better via analog inputs than the 9.8 ot 9.8, which were quite lackluster by consensus. If you are thinking Oppo SE fo Mch, I personally think that would be a waste. I think you would be far better off with a plain BDP-83 via HDMI. Then you can use Audyssey, which I think is the strong suit of all these Integra prepros. Save the Oppo SE upgrade money and apply it to an Audyssey Pro upgrade. I have no interest in analog, except for vinyl on rare occasions. For that, I bypass my 9.8. Analog into a primarily digital prepro is not a good idea. Too much EMI/RFI inside the box.

Alternatively, if you really want to go analog out from the player, get a Parasound Mch preamp for about the same money as an 80.1. I have a hunch it will sound better with analog than an an Integra. But, I do not think that combo will sound as good as an 80.1/BDP-83 combo via HDMI with Audyssey Pro. But, to each his own.
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post #186 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 03:30 PM
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I have my integra 80.1 installed now. Haven't had time to do anything other than run Audyssey and set up the inputs. I am basically using HDMI for everything, and I don't want the video signal to be changed at all by the 80.1.

To have the 80.1 pass through the HDMI signal unchanged, do I set immediate mode to OFF and use THROUGH in the resolution. Or is there more I must do. I notice gamma curves and brightness settings etc now as options, but I want that all bypassed.

How do I make sure the video portion of the HDMI isn't being processed in any way by the 80.1?
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post #187 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

I have my integra 80.1 installed now. Haven't had time to do anything other than run Audyssey and set up the inputs. I am basically using HDMI for everything, and I don't want the video signal to be changed at all by the 80.1.

To have the 80.1 pass through the HDMI signal unchanged, do I set immediate mode to OFF and use THROUGH in the resolution. Or is there more I must do. I notice gamma curves and brightness settings etc now as options, but I want that all bypassed.

How do I make sure the video portion of the HDMI isn't being processed in any way by the 80.1?

THROUGH does not convert.
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post #188 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 05:08 PM
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So, what is the difference between pure and direct, then?
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post #189 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 08:09 PM
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Just a quick update. Was considering 80.1 as alternative to NAD T175HD, will not be changing to Integra; NAD beats it in sq comparison no question. I was really tempted by 9.2 & internet features but sq is king in this house. Anyway, thanks to all for the help.
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post #190 of 1862 Old 11-20-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space View Post

So, what is the difference between pure and direct, then?

Here is a description of Pure and Direct modes from the 5507 manual on page 83.

Pure Audio
In this mode, the display and video circuitry are turned
off, minimizing possible noise sources for the ultimate in
high-fidelity reproduction. (As the video circuitry is
turned off, only video signals input through HDMI IN
can be output.)

Direct
In this mode, audio from the input source is output
directly with minimal processing, providing high-fidelity
reproduction. All of the source’s audio channels are
output as they are.


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post #191 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc10000 View Post

Just a quick update. Was considering 80.1 as alternative to NAD T175HD, will not be changing to Integra; NAD beats it in sq comparison no question. I was really tempted by 9.2 & internet features but sq is king in this house. Anyway, thanks to all for the help.

SQ is also tops on my list, but 9.2 with two independent sub channel calibrations (I think this has been confirmed) is likely to improve the SQ in other ways as well.

I know it is very early in the evaluation process and not many people have units to compare, but has anyone considered or discussed getting the analog output stage modified? I think there would be significant room for improvement in this area. I'm sure Integra uses moderate grade components (at best), especially with so many outputs which add up on the cost quickly. Any modders want to comment?

E
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post #192 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 07:08 AM
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[quote=Eric_RP;17576314]

Quote:
SQ is also tops on my list, but 9.2 with two independent sub channel calibrations (I think this has been confirmed) is likely to improve the SQ in other ways as well.

Eric,

I agree with your thoughts on this.

Quote:
I know it is very early in the evaluation process and not many people have units to compare, but has anyone considered or discussed getting the analog output stage modified? I think there would be significant room for improvement in this area. I'm sure Integra uses moderate grade components (at best), especially with so many outputs which add up on the cost quickly. Any modders want to comment?

I have seen discussions of modifying the analog section of the Onkyo/Integras here on AVS and it is always quite interesting to say the least. I feel that if analog performance is important in a HT/audio system with Onkyo/Integra prepros a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass is the best option. The biggest issue with having mods done to a prepro such as the 80.1 is that your 3 year warranty is now history. Also you could have the mods done and not be completely happy with the SQ.

If you go with a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass and you are not happy with the SQ you can try a different preamp. There are many choices in many different price ranges so the options are better IMO.

Bill

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post #193 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I feel that if analog performance is important in a HT/audio system with Onkyo/Integra prepros a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass is the best option...... If you go with a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass and you are not happy with the SQ you can try a different preamp. There are many choices in many different price ranges so the options are better IMO.

Bill

I agree. I have a 2 channel preamp in my system with HT bypass. Just carefully assess and pick your HT bypass options. I have true HT bypass, not just a unity gain option that still processes the signal in the preamp. In fact it is also a tube preamp. So there are lot's of high end audiophile options to get great sound.

Also, with a another dedicated preamp you can easily separate out your 2 channel components if you decide to build a second dedicated system outside of the HT system.
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post #194 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 08:15 AM
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Mine is on order, along with 11 XLR male-female mic cables to hook up my amps. Once in I'll post my opinion.
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post #195 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Eric,

I agree with your thoughts on this.

I have seen discussions of modifying the analog section of the Onkyo/Integras here on AVS and it is always quite interesting to say the least. I feel that if analog performance is important in a HT/audio system with Onkyo/Integra prepros a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass is the best option. The biggest issue with having mods done to a prepro such as the 80.1 is that your 3 year warranty is now history. Also you could have the mods done and not be completely happy with the SQ.

If you go with a 2 CH preamp with HT Bypass and you are not happy with the SQ you can try a different preamp. There are many choices in many different price ranges so the options are better IMO.

Bill

I'm not thinking of using the 80.1 as an analog pass through unit, if that is what you are thinking. My thought - same as the sub out options/flexibility, is to be able to use processing/BM/Audyssey on all sources, even 2-channel/SACD/DVD-A. Use DVD/CD player as transport, but have an improved output stage on the 80.1 to not only have the processing capabilities but also have decent output components (assuming the output stage upgrades improve SQ). As I indicated, I can only imagine that the components that are used in the 80.1 output stage, especially given that there are 11 pre-outs, are less than high-end quality/optimal. I would think there may also be potential improvements that could be made to the power supply(s).

Agreed on concerns regarding voiding warranty and potentially not being happy with the modded unit SQ, especially since there may only be a handful of people who even consider/perform such a mod so info on improvements would not be available to review. However, a modded unit is not going to sound worse than a stock unit, maybe just not provide the improvements to your personal liking.

But it's in pursuit of audio nirvana and only money... right

E
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post #196 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric_RP View Post

SQ is also tops on my list, but 9.2 with two independent sub channel calibrations (I think this has been confirmed) is likely to improve the SQ in other ways as well.

That's true, but not a feature I need. Have NHT Dual U1 stereo subs with outboard amps & crossover (that's 4x12").
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post #197 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerplay View Post

I know it might be a little early to ask this question but for the people who are already using their 80.1s what are you using for remote codes. I have a Harmony 880 and I went on their website and they list the 9.9. Are the chance pretty good the codes will be the same? I don't want to reprogram my remote with those codes unless I have some confidence it will work. I thought this would be a better place than to put it in the remote forum since it is unique to the 80.1 TIA

I have the harmony 890 (same as the 880 plus RF) and the DHC 80.1. Like you say the Harmony site only has the DHC 9.9 and so far everything works fine using the 9.9 codes.

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post #198 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 12:56 PM
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FYI, the DHC-80.1 is not compatible with XM.....bummer. I didn't catch that in the specs. I love everything else though! I'm having issues with Audyssey Pro but, I don't know if it's laptop or AVR yet. I did a quick Audyssey MultEQ and IMO it definitely sounds better than my 9.9. The clicking is exactly like the DTR-9.9 and a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Cheers!

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post #199 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevetd View Post

FYI, the DHC-80.1 is not compatible with XM.....bummer. I didn't catch that in the specs. I love everything else though! I'm having issues with Audyssey Pro but, I don't know if it's laptop or AVR yet. I did a quick Audyssey MultEQ and IMO it definitely sounds better than my 9.9. The clicking is exactly like the DTR-9.9 and a complete non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Cheers!

Hi Steve,

Can you please elaborate on the issues you are having with Audyssey Pro.

Thanks.

Larry
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post #200 of 1862 Old 11-21-2009, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc10000 View Post

That's true, but not a feature I need. Have NHT Dual U1 stereo subs with outboard amps & crossover (that's 4x12").

What are you using as an EQ for your subs?

I currently run a BFD (2 separate EQ channels) for my 4 x MFW-15's - one in each corner. I have a slightly different EQ setting for the front two subs than the back two.

I think two independent sub channels on the 80.1 with separate distance, level, phase and EQ will be a real benefit.

E
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post #201 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Steve,

Can you please elaborate on the issues you are having with Audyssey Pro.

Thanks.

Larry

I cannot achieve communication between my laptop and the 80.1. I have a 9.8 and a 9.9 both of which I've performed a Pro calibration on using the same laptop with zero problems. I have contacted Audyssey support but, have not heard back yet.

Steve
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post #202 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 04:46 AM
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I just ordered a 80.1 and have been reading through the owners manual online to get familiar with it. I just have a question about the Audyssey MultEQ set-up. Does Audyssey set the volume level during calibration or do I need to set the volume level before I start calibration?

Thanks
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post #203 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 06:42 AM
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I see numerous references in this and other threads about deficient sound quality for Onkyo analog output stages and analog input sources. I don't understand this.


In terms of the output stages, aren't they common for both digital and analog sources? So why should there be any difference?


In terms of MC analog sources, are there really 6-9 A/D converters to enable Audyssey and other DSP processing? Seems unlikely there would be this many. If not, is the quality issue just attributable to the impossibility of digital processing for them? If there are instead only 2 A/D converters to enable DSP on just two channel analog sources and there is still a significant SQ difference, wouldn't it imply simply that the A/D converters are the culprit since the DSP, D/A converters, and analog output stages should be common with 2 channel digital inputs?


Can anyone confirm that the DSP for MC inputs over HDMI allows completely independent setting of time alignment and crossover parameters for each output as does my old Denon player? Most players only permit grouping of surrounds and are quite inflexible in this regard. Since I listen off-center much of the time, this is important to me.


I've looked at the manual for one of the units and there is no block diagram so it's difficult to determine what's going on. A picture would be worth a thousand words.

Thanks all for a great thread.
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post #204 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucker2 View Post

I see numerous references in this and other threads about deficient sound quality for Onkyo analog output stages and analog input sources. I don't understand this.


In terms of the output stages, aren't they common for both digital and analog sources? So why should there be any difference?

Your analysis is correct. It is the input stage that is the issue since it is discernibly inferior to the general performance of the device. OTOH, the quality of the output stages cannot be evaluated independently of the rest of the device and, I believe, anyone who says they are inferior is making a speculation based on comparing the entire pre/pro to others.


Quote:


In terms of analog sources, are there really 6-9 A/D converters to enable Audyssey and other DSP processing? Seems unlikely there would be this many. In this case, is the quality issue just attributable to the impossibility of digital processing for them? If there are instead only 2 D/A converters to enable DSP on just two channel analog sources and there is still a significant SQ difference, wouldn't it imply simply that the D/A converters are the culprit since the DSP and output stages should be common with 2 channel digital inputs?

??? A/D stages do not implement any DSP. The DSP processor implements Audyssey and other processing functions.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #205 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 07:47 AM
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Sorry, I made a couple of edits to clear up the question. Thanks for the reply.
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post #206 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgemmill View Post

I just ordered a 80.1 and have been reading through the owners manual online to get familiar with it. I just have a question about the Audyssey MultEQ set-up. Does Audyssey set the volume level during calibration or do I need to set the volume level before I start calibration?

Thanks

You do not need to worry about volume levels before running Audyssey. Running Audyssey calibration will set the channel levels so that each channel will play the 80.1 test tones @ approx 75db at the first mic position.

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post #207 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 08:07 AM
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[quote=Kal Rubinson;17580992]Your analysis is correct. It is the input stage that is the issue since it is discernibly inferior to the general performance of the device.

Kal, do you think it is the analog input stages that are inferior, or the A/D converters? The former would seem bizarre. The latter would seem more likely, as good A/D converters, like men, are hard to find.

Thanks
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post #208 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have the harmony 890 (same as the 880 plus RF) and the DHC 80.1. Like you say the Harmony site only has the DHC 9.9 and so far everything works fine using the 9.9 codes.

RMK,

Thank you for the reply! I will load it up into my remote. That is a big help.
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post #209 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 09:18 AM
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[quote=Tucker2;17581313]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Your analysis is correct. It is the input stage that is the issue since it is discernibly inferior to the general performance of the device.

Kal, do you think it is the analog input stages that are inferior, or the A/D converters? The former would seem bizarre. The latter would seem more likely, as good A/D converters, like men, are hard to find.

Thanks

As I implied, it is hard to separate things that are wired together. You get the analog input stages and output stages alone or you get them interposed with both the A/D and D/A (plus a little more). Of course, you also have to factor in the D/A of the source. In either case, it sounds, to me inferior to digital input from the same source. Keep in mind, also, that my qualitative comments apply specifically to the DTC-9.8 as I have not yet tried the successors.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #210 of 1862 Old 11-22-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_RP View Post

What are you using as an EQ for your subs?

I currently run a BFD (2 separate EQ channels) for my 4 x MFW-15's - one in each corner. I have a slightly different EQ setting for the front two subs than the back two.

I think two independent sub channels on the 80.1 with separate distance, level, phase and EQ will be a real benefit.

E

Have one of these with factory 20hz mod. Loop F/R main preouts through this & amps then back to surround processor. Has mono/stereo switch; in stereo mode, sub output for left channels go to left, right go to right. That, along with Audyssey multieq xt works awesome. Supposed the 80.1 does something similar, but I prefer outboard sub amps & crossover, more flexible.

NHT X1 Electronic Crossover

http://store.nhthifi.com/X1-Electron...&category=1225
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