How important is 1080p upscaling in a receiver? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 01-06-2010, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I just bought a Samsung PN58b540 plasma TV. I don't have a sound system yet, so imagine how thrilled I was when the wife said, "We need surround sound!"

I'm going to assemble my own system, so I figure I should start with the receiver as the focus. I've spent hours reading these forums and shopping for receivers, and I'm just as confused as ever.

One feature I'm curious about is 1080p upscaling. If I plug my Xbox 360 into a receiver that upscales, and my eyes are 12' away from the TV, will I even be able to tell the difference?

And if it would make a difference, do all receivers upscale the same? Are some better than others? If I get a receiver without upscaling, it'll save me some dough. Besides the Xbox, is there any other device that really benefits from upscaling? I'm sure someone has an opinion.
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post #2 of 15 Old 01-06-2010, 08:18 PM
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It's not important, IMO.

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post #3 of 15 Old 01-06-2010, 09:28 PM
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Its hard to say. Sometimes the source is better, sometimes the AVR is better, sometimes the TV is better. My AVR (Onkyo TX-SR706) is set to HDMI through for video - no upscaling. My BD player outputs everything at 1080p24, while my HD DVR outputs native resolution which is then upscaled by the tv.
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post #4 of 15 Old 01-06-2010, 09:32 PM
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I could elaborate, but I have done so in many other places, such as the AVR FAQ.

Let me just say this. I have ABT 2010 video processing on my receiver. It scores perfect on HQV. It's real world effect though, is hardly noticeable. IMO, don't worry about it. You can see my more detailed comments in the AVR FAQ.

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post #5 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 06:49 AM
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It all comes down to which device does the better scaling. In the end, your TV will scale to its native resolution anyways.

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post #6 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 07:23 AM
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Scaling in a receiver is useful if the scaling in your display is poor (I know, for example, the scaling in my older Samsung LCD is much worse than the scaling in my PS3) and you have sources (like older DVD players) that can't scale on their own or have poor built-in scaling (like some cable boxes).

If your TV has good scaling (like the Pioneer Kuros, probably others too), or all of your SD sources have good built-in scaling, then scaling won't be a valuable feature in a receiver.
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badsponge View Post


One feature I'm curious about is 1080p upscaling. If I plug my Xbox 360 into a receiver that upscales, and my eyes are 12' away from the TV, will I even be able to tell the difference?

And if it would make a difference, do all receivers upscale the same? Are some better than others? If I get a receiver without upscaling, it'll save me some dough. Besides the Xbox, is there any other device that really benefits from upscaling? I'm sure someone has an opinion.

Your receiver wouldn't upscale the Xbox 360 because your xbox puts out 1080p already from the source (well, technically it ups from 720p to 1080p internally...)

If your source is already 1080p, it won't do a thing. For a source that's in 720p already, it won't do much from your viewing distance.

What is nice about upscaling (especailly for gaming) is that it helps to make the feed 1080p before it gets to the TV, which helps with input lag. When the TV has to go through post processing and upscaling to native resolution, it takes some time...some TV's can introduce around 100ms of lag time, which could affect game performance, or even unsync your audio from your video. At least when everything is done in the receiver and sent out, it's timed better, and the TV doesn't have to take care of the post-processing.

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post #8 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the input. I'll cross off upscaling as a requirement for my receiver shopping and save some bucks!
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post #9 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlin29311 View Post

What is nice about upscaling (especailly for gaming) is that it helps to make the feed 1080p before it gets to the TV, which helps with input lag. When the TV has to go through post processing and upscaling to native resolution, it takes some time...some TV's can introduce around 100ms of lag time, which could affect game performance, or even unsync your audio from your video. At least when everything is done in the receiver and sent out, it's timed better, and the TV doesn't have to take care of the post-processing.

I almost made a similar comment, but I'm not entirely sure it's legitimate. Many TVs will perform some scaling even on signals at their native resolution (either causing or compensating for overscan). In other cases, the TV may actually scale with less lag than an AVR (either due to the AVR scaling slowly or due to the TV scaling quickly). Unless you absolutely know your TV scales slowly, I would not expect scaling in an AVR to be any faster.
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 08:20 AM
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Question has litte merit..
Todays' middle range AVRs include upscaling as it is part of the video processor chip that does the transcoding & GUI/OSD. It comes with the package, if not desired because the native stream is already HD or another upscaler is in the signal chain..
Simply switch it OFF.
No biggee.

Just my $0.01..
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badsponge View Post

Thanks all for the input. I'll cross off upscaling as a requirement for my receiver shopping and save some bucks!

Keep in mind that most receivers that scale will also up-convert. Meaning you can connect a source with component or composite cables and feed that to the television with HDMI output. This is convenient as only one cable is connected between the receiver and TV.

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post #12 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Question has litte merit..
Todays' middle range AVRs include upscaling as it is part of the video processor chip that does the transcoding & GUI/OSD. It comes with the package, if not desired because the native stream is already HD or another upscaler is in the signal chain..
Simply switch it OFF.
No biggee.

Just my $0.01..

Yep, it seems that all mid-range and above receivers have upscaling included. It's just not something that I would pay extra for.
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzhokhar View Post

I almost made a similar comment, but I'm not entirely sure it's legitimate. Many TVs will perform some scaling even on signals at their native resolution (either causing or compensating for overscan). In other cases, the TV may actually scale with less lag than an AVR (either due to the AVR scaling slowly or due to the TV scaling quickly). Unless you absolutely know your TV scales slowly, I would not expect scaling in an AVR to be any faster.

At least in the situation of syncing audio to video, it's better.

I do agree that the TV does some post-processing either way, but it makes it easier on the TV to have something in native already as compared to having to rescale and then do the other stuff too.

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post #14 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 09:48 AM
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If the TV is cropping the signal due to overscan, it's scaling either way, so I would guess the lag is the same as if it were in native mode. That only applies to deinterlaced signals being cropped due to overscan though.

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post #15 of 15 Old 01-07-2010, 10:08 AM
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low and mid level receiver should not have upscaling. its a worthless feature i hate it
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