...It's also clear that CEMs must declare power consumption, etc, in compliance with [differing] national standards . . . so I'm guessing they send one demo unit of each model to an approved lab for a bench power test . . . and if two lab techs run tests with minor variations on near identical models, you'll get differing results!
It just seems odd that in previous years the same number was quoted for Canada and US, and this year the difference is large (400 vs 490W).
How much you want to bet that the 400W classification was for 20Hz-20KHz, while the 490W was rated at the 1KHz mark, which appears to be the "standard" overseas?
When a Priest says they're going to Flash you, it isn't for healing.
I doubt it because in the same specs the power per channel is given for 20Hz-20kHz with no distinction between US and Canada. Then on the next page the total power consumption is quoted as 490W for US and 400 for Canada. I asked Yamaha Canada for an explanation, but got no reply.
HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD
Music: Yamaha RX-V863 | 2 X Energy RC-70 | MA RXw12 Sub
Bathroom: 2 X Energy Take LCR
Car: Sony Xplod HU, Xplod 6X9s, Kenwood 4"s, Alpine 12" Type-S, Rockford Amp,...
I have 2 subs connected to each sub pre-outs #1 & #2....However, the front display only shows SW1 when it should also show "SW2" as per the manual....anyone has this issue?...sound is coming out of both subs though.
My assumption that this won't work is solely predicated on my desired arrangement NOT being represented amongst the options available for the amp assign, according to the manual.
Again, I do not see a choice amongst those listed that allows me to externally power the main 7 and internally power the (4) presence speakers.
I understand the point you're making regarding the unit disabling the rear surrounds when the rear presence speakers are being used, but, I think you're also assuming that they're (rear surrounds) are still able to be pre-outted, which we do not know...I think someone above may have commented specifically that is not the case, actually, and that both the speaker terminals AND pre-outs are disabled.
I think it's the other way around, actually, where you MUST pre-out the presence speakers while the 3000 powers the rear surrounds.
EDIT: Upon further inspection of the manual, I'm still convinved the best I can do is: just pre out the mains, presence channels, and or a combination of presence channels and/or zones.
I'd like to think I'm a pretty sharp guy, but if you're thinking is correct, I'm simply not seeing it.
RX-A3000 is fully capable of running any combination of seven channels - However, you can use external amps using the pre-out jacks on the RX-A3000 that are illustrated on page 28 of the RX-A3000 use manual.
Make sure that you set the amp assign (speaker configuration) menu properly as well so that the correct signals are going to the correct preamp outputs as illustrated on page 24 of the RX-A3000 user manual. Although your specific setup is not pictured - it appears that if you
are going to use the RX-A3000 to run the presence and rears only - set the speaker configuration to 7ch+Front. This should allow the front channels to be output via the preamp outputs while the RX-A3000 powers the front presence/rear surround speakers. In addition, you can then use any other combination of connecting speakers directly to the RX-A3000 or use the preamp outputs assigned to those channels to feed an external amp. In other words, you should be able to use the preamp outputs for the surround and center channels as well as the preamp outputs of the front channels to feed an external amp, leaving the surround back channels (along with the front presence channels) to be powered by the RX-A3000 directly.
Assuming you remain within the rated impedance requirements, yes. Just keep in mind that activating the low impedance mode of the Yamaha AVRs cuts the available power by 50% to all channels, not just the front L/R. It also increases the risk of entering clipping because with less power to the speakers, you're more likely to hit your "hard ceiling" for volume much, much sooner.
You can drive the low impedance speakers, yes. But you can't really drive them, if you get what I mean. If you're not in a huge listening room, it may work just fine, but you won't be able to hit Relative 0db (Reference Level for THX listening modes).
It's a tradeoff. You're giving up power for flexibility.
One thing I will mention. Most folks will tell you it's better to run the amp in 8 ohm mode and not turn up the volume to clipping. Generally speaking this works, but the risk on that side is that the current draw could be significant enough to blow the capacitors in the main drive section, so basically with low impedance speakers and AVRs outside the flagship range, you're playing Russian Roulette if you like to listen at anything above roughly 75db. That's the reason for the need for external amps. You'd only need the amps for your main speakers - the rest should be well enough off to where you're not going to blow anything, especially considering that each discrete amplifier section only allows a certain amount of power regardless of whether or not the mains are connected (front L/R).
While you'll be losing some of the power (about 15%) to thermal inversion at the speaker's crossover, using method #2 would work best for you if you intend to bi-amp. Get two identical amplifiers use those to bi-amp the speakers. You could go one step further to actually increase the soundstage and channel separation (and eliminate ANY crosstalk between the L/R channels) by using external amp #1's L/R channels to amplify the Left speaker's lower and upper arrays respectively, and doing the same thing for amplifier #2 and the Right speaker's arrays. If your speakers are properly designed, their crossovers are separate (they'd have to be for speaker to have bi-amp capability without external modification/line level electronic XOs before the amplifier stage). The separated sections might present below nominal loads (4-6 ohms once the connections are separated at the speaker terminals), but external amps generally can handle them. The method I just described is called Vertical Bi-Amping, and you'd be amazed at just how much crosstalk you hear with regular amplifying and with horizontal bi-amping (using two amps; one amp for bass array for both speakers, amp #2 for high array on both speakers). When you lose the crosstalk, you'll definitely hear more of what you've been missing. An apt analogy is this: Rip a CD track to WAV (or AIFF if you're on a Mac - they're the exact same format, just different headers). Create two MP3s from the ripped track. Make the first MP3 using "joint stereo", and make the second MP3 using just "stereo". Joint stereo is what you hear when there's crosstalk. Stereo is what you hear with no crosstalk.
If you want fairly decent, and (relatively) cheap amps, two Emotiva XPA-2 amps will do very well. And you get the added benefit of having XLR connections on them for when/if you get a real prepro. You'd be amazed at just how much line noise you lose going from unbalanced to balanced (XLR) connections at both the preamp and amp ends. Only problem there is...well, finding a good prepro for less than the top end AVRs. That's my problem right now. Well that and I hate, loathe, and despise Audyssey's current implementation and the fact that my tweeters literally disappear with room correction activated via Audyssey.
What an amazing post!!!
This is why we all are here to share outstanding info with others, thank you!
So! based on this facts from amps, bi-amps, psu`s, etc...
I have this candid question... but first! my setup is this:
Fronts: B&W 683 with bi-amp terminals
S: B&W 685
SB: B&W 685
Center: B&W HTM61
with the mighty Supercube I
if I hook to my actual system an exactly second RX-A2000 and wanted to try
the Vertical Bi-Amping setup you mention... how exactly do I hook my speakers? and I guess XO on the side of my speakers is good enough to handle this kinda setup!
This is the scenario you kindly gave us:
AMP #1 L/R signal goes to the LEFT SPEAKER terminals:
left goes for tweeter and right goes for woofer?
AMP #2 L/R signal goes to the RIGTH SPEAKER terminals:
left goes for tweeter and right goes for woofer? or back wards?
AMP#1 is for decoding? and the rest of the speakers? right?
Sorrryyy for my silly questions, I am just a little way over my head for XO crosstalk and want to understand exactly.
(maybe is more the language barrier than technical barrier)
All the best,
|Front| B&W 683 (bi amp)
|Center| B&W HTM61
|SS| B&W 685 |SB| B&W 685
|Subwoofer| DefTech Supercube 1
|Visuals| Samsung LED TV 3D Serie 8000 55"
PS3slim & Sony SACD player