Pioneer VSX-520-K and VSX-820-K announced - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Found this on Pioneer's website today announcing the Pioneer VSX-520-K and VSX-820-K (3/1/2010):

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...e+Home+Theater

I guess the major news is Bluetooth and HDMI 1.4 (for 3D). Available this month.

New article announcing the Pioneer VSX-920-K, VSX-1020-K and VSX-1120-K (3/5/2010):

http://www.twice.com/article/449660-...iPhone_App.php

See the features for the products in this 2010 line in the Amazon chart on this page: http://www.amazon.com/product/dp/B0039XQQXA
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post #2 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 01:55 PM
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Nice, but the product table leaves something to be desired - I see a lot of blanks in the Amazon Feature Chart (no internet radio, no iPhone remote app(!!!!), no PC Control). I think I'm stuck waiting for the 1020-K model to get those extra features...
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post #3 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Certainly the fact that they've left blanks indicates that they'll fill in those blanks when they expand the chart to include higher end models. It's kind of disappointing there's no news about those higher end models. Given that David Bales from Pioneer marketing apparently posted on this site to drum up excitement in advance of an announcement today (and given that they did announce something, I feel confident it was really him), I'm disappointed that these low end receivers are apparently all that's being announced. (I think Onkyo announced two months ago that their 2010 receivers would be 3D compatible, so that was a must. And bluetooth compatibility? Not an earth-shaking development either.)
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post #4 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 02:11 PM
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Well, that's underwhelming. The bluetooth piece isn't even built in. It's a separate accessory. From Amazon:

Quote:


Bluetooth capability (with AS-BT100 adapter, sold separately)
lets you play music wirelessly from your Bluetooth-enabled portable devices

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post #5 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 02:59 PM
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$99 for a BT adapter? That seems like quite the ripoff.
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post #6 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 03:05 PM
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A BT adapter that let's you not only listen to music but control the receiver and stream files from your device (say a mobile phone, PC, etc...) would be worth $99.

Just music? Rip off.
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post #7 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:


Nice, but the product table leaves something to be desired - I see a lot of blanks in the Amazon Feature Chart (no internet radio, no iPhone remote app(!!!!), no PC Control). I think I'm stuck waiting for the 1020-K model to get those extra features...

The 519 and 819 were the entry level Pioneer receivers, so the 520 and 820 follow suit. You're not expecting ALL the features on the entry level models are you? If they did that you'd have no reason to buy the higher end stuff.

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post #8 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 03:26 PM
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Interesting that they have pre-outs for Dolby Pro-Logic IIz...

Hard to tell from the back panel, but it looks like they might be selectable between Surround Back and IIz...

Who the heck is going to buy one of these entry level receivers, and then provide an additional amp with two more speakers?
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post #9 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The 519 and 819 were the entry level Pioneer receivers, so the 520 and 820 follow suit. You're not expecting ALL the features on the entry level models are you? If they did that you'd have no reason to buy the higher end stuff.

Yeah, I just want the higher end models out ASAP. I almost bought a 1019 and am waiting for its successor!

Also, it says HDMI 1.4, does that mean it will support the new Ethernet-over-HDMI standard? It would be nice to plug my receiver in, and then all my (next gen) consoles get internet access so I don't have to have a 5 port ethernet switch behind my TV.
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post #10 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The HDMI 1.4 specification specifies Ethernet (see below). Pioneer says its 2010 receivers "support the latest HDMI specification," so the answer should be yes, it supports the Ethernet-over-HDMI standard, but I guess the proof is in the pudding.

According to HDMI.org (see http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdm...1_4_faq.aspx#1 ), HDMI 1.4 includes the following:

HDMI Ethernet Channel
The HDMI 1.4 specification adds a data channel to the HDMI connection, enabling high-speed, bi-directional communication. Connected devices that include this feature can send and receive data via 100 Mb/sec Ethernet, making them instantly ready for any IP-based application. The HDMI Ethernet Channel allows internet-enabled HDMI devices to share an internet connection via the HDMI link, with no need for a separate Ethernet cable. It also provides the connection platform that will allow HDMI-enabled components to share content between devices.
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post #11 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 05:11 PM
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Wow. 20 years after Ethernet became ubiquitous in computing, the consumer electronics industry manages to kludge together a new standard, a new cable, and reinvent the wheel to get . . . Ethernet.
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post #12 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 05:13 PM
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I'm a little confused on the new Pioneer iPhone integration. I'm considering the VSX-23. It already has iPod support (iPhone too, right?). I see this paragraph on the Pioneer website:

"iPhone Control Button - Adding to the ease-of-use expected by Apple users, the VSX-820-K additionally features a front panel iPhone Control button that transfers iPod® navigation control from the A/V receiver's remote control back to the connected Apple device so users can easily and quickly navigate through their library of media files directly on the device."

How is this different from the VSX-21 and 23?
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post #13 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aross99 View Post

Who the heck is going to buy one of these entry level receivers, and then provide an additional amp with two more speakers?

Anyone upgrading from a receiver with line-level inputs for fronts can use his old receiver for the extra amps.

Greg Lee
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post #14 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 06:25 PM
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Even as entry level wallyworld receivers, they are weirdly configured with 5 weak amps and the capability for 7(?) or 9(?) channels. Who the heck would buy them knowingly with the goal of using PLIIz is a very good question....

Is matching a $3K 3D HDTV & $500 3D BD player with a $229 receiver a great idea even for the "masses"?

Do the math - $229 for the AVR leaves $300 for 5 speakers and you have.....HTIB minus the box!

These are really Pioneer's new ipod docks

ss9001

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post #15 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc0000 View Post

I'm a little confused on the new Pioneer iPhone integration. I'm considering the VSX-23. It already has iPod support (iPhone too, right?). I see this paragraph on the Pioneer website:

"iPhone Control Button - Adding to the ease-of-use expected by Apple users, the VSX-820-K additionally features a front panel iPhone Control button that transfers iPod® navigation control from the A/V receiver's remote control back to the connected Apple device so users can easily and quickly navigate through their library of media files directly on the device."

How is this different from the VSX-21 and 23?

As I understand it, there are two modes of controlling an iPod/iPhone connected to the USB port of the VSX-21/23: either (1) by using the Pioneer user interface (typically via the remote control) or (2) by manipulating the user controls on the iPod itself. (With some limitations - e.g., my understanding is that video playback can be controlled only through the iPod controls and not through the Pioneer user interface.) Only one mode of control is enabled at a time - to switch between the two control modes, the user needs to switch between them using the remote control.

It sounds to me like there will be a hard-button "Control" button on the front panel of the 820/520 that will allow the user to switch between the two control modes without using the remote control.
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post #16 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 07:34 PM
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According to TWICE, details on the new Pioneer 7.1 channel AVRs will be announced later this week.

www.twice.com
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post #17 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 09:21 PM
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I looked up the VSX-23 manual and it says on page 46:

Switching the iPod controls

You can switch over the iPod controls between the iPod
and the receiver.

1 Press iPod CTRL to switch the iPod controls.
This enables operation and display on your iPod, and this
receiver's remote control and GUI screen become
inactive.

2 Press iPod CTRL again to switch back to the receiver
controls.

So it looks like the receiver already has this feature. I checked and so did the previous model, the VSX-03. So what is Pioneer talking about? Touting a new feature that was already in the receiver? Or are we missing something?
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post #18 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

According to TWICE, details on the new Pioneer 7.1 channel AVRs will be announced later this week.

www.twice.com

They confirmed this in their Facebook group also...
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post #19 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doormat View Post

Yeah, I just want the higher end models out ASAP. I almost bought a 1019 and am waiting for its successor!

Also, it says HDMI 1.4, does that mean it will support the new Ethernet-over-HDMI standard? It would be nice to plug my receiver in, and then all my (next gen) consoles get internet access so I don't have to have a 5 port ethernet switch behind my TV.

Nope.. Ethernet for HDMI is not supported in the chip yet. It cannot be supported at this time..

Sorry..

Chris
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post #20 of 159 Old 03-01-2010, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc0000 View Post

I looked up the VSX-23 manual...
So it looks like the receiver already has this feature. I checked and so did the previous model, the VSX-03. So what is Pioneer talking about? Touting a new feature that was already in the receiver? Or are we missing something?

Those are more expensive 7 channel Elite AVRs. These are Pioneer's entry level 5.1 receivers. It could be a new feature to their low-end.

I had a quick look and apart from the ipod thing these seem to be the changes from the previous generation entry level receivers, the 519 and 819.

819 -> 820

+1 HDMI input (3 to 4)
+1 Composite / stereo input (Labelled BD which seems a bit blasphemous)
removed 5.1 Analog input
added PLIIz height option for rear surround pre-out (can use one, not both)
added HDMI 1.4 support (3D-ready but no two-way audio, no ethernet)
added bluetooth - adapter sold separately
added Sirius input

519 -> 520

+$30 More expensive (was $199, now $229)
+1 HDMI input (2 to 3)
+1 Composite / stereo input
removed 5.1 Analog input
added PLIIz height option for rear surround pre-out (can use one, not both)
added HDMI 1.4 support (3D-ready but no two-way audio, no ethernet)
added bluetooth - adapter sold separately
added TrueHD and DTS MA support
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post #21 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 03:42 AM
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For someone who currently has a Denon 5+1 with no HDMI inputs at all, I am considering this, since it offers several things I find would be useful to me, so Ill be looking for the reviews to see how well they work...

The 1080p upconvert... Output everything in 1080p. My Sharp Aquos has no 1080p/24 support. So if this receiver will convert DirecTv's 1080p/24 to 1080p/60 it would be great.

The option to expand compressed mp3 files and satellite radio audio... I listen to XM via computer, as well as DirecTvs current music channels. DirecTvs channels are currently so compressed I cannot listen to them. Hopefully this feature will make them at least listenable.

The leveling feature to keep commercials from blasting you out of the room at night.

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post #22 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenlr View Post

The option to expand compressed mp3 files and satellite radio audio... I listen to XM via computer, as well as DirecTvs current music channels.

I have this feature on my older Pioneer receivers. I tried it out last night using Pioneer 817 on several Sonic Tap channels from DirecTV. The results were discernible occasionally, but not that impressive. One channel had high bass emphasized a little. The Jazz channel had a breathy saxophone solo that the "sound retriever" distorted badly.

Edit: I'm listening now to a vocal and flute recording on channel 850, and it does sound quite a bit better with the Pioneer "sound retriever" switched on.

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post #23 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc0000 View Post

I looked up the VSX-23 manual and it says on page 46:

Switching the iPod controls

You can switch over the iPod controls between the iPod
and the receiver.

1 Press iPod CTRL to switch the iPod controls.
This enables operation and display on your iPod, and this
receiver’s remote control and GUI screen become
inactive.

2 Press iPod CTRL again to switch back to the receiver
controls.

So it looks like the receiver already has this feature. I checked and so did the previous model, the VSX-03. So what is Pioneer talking about? Touting a new feature that was already in the receiver? Or are we missing something?


I don't think you read my post very carefully, or perhaps I wasn't crystal clear. I'll try to make it clearer, using the Twice article (http://www.twice.com/article/449417-..._Bluetooth.php) about these new receivers:

"For the first time, Pioneer is adding front-panel iPod/iPhone control button to its iPod/iPhone-controlling AVRs. The button, near the port, lets users choose between controlling their iPod/iPhone from the portable devices' controls or from the AVR's front panel controls and AVR remote. The control button's function was previously available only on a harder to find remote-control button." (emphasis is mine)

Obviously, this is not an earth-shattering technological breakthrough.
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post #24 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 01:36 PM
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Great catch. I didn't notice the difference. It would be much more convenient to have the button on the receiver front panel than having to use the remote to switch iPod control. I hope Pioneer adds this to the other receivers.

Kudos to Pioneer to provide for a simple plug-in of an iPod or external hard drive. None of this silly $299 dock pricing (I'm talking to you Denon).
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post #25 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc0000 View Post

I looked up the VSX-23 manual and it says on page 46:

Switching the iPod controls

You can switch over the iPod controls between the iPod
and the receiver.

1 Press iPod CTRL to switch the iPod controls.
This enables operation and display on your iPod, and this
receiver's remote control and GUI screen become
inactive.

2 Press iPod CTRL again to switch back to the receiver
controls.


So it looks like the receiver already has this feature. I checked and so did the previous model, the VSX-03. So what is Pioneer talking about? Touting a new feature that was already in the receiver? Or are we missing something?

Correcto..
Pioneer car audio aftermarket head units handle the iPod and iPhone operation the same way, and have been available for the last 2 years..

Just my $0.01...
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post #26 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aross99 View Post

Interesting that they have pre-outs for Dolby Pro-Logic IIz...

Hard to tell from the back panel, but it looks like they might be selectable between Surround Back and IIz...

Who the heck is going to buy one of these entry level receivers, and then provide an additional amp with two more speakers?

Note that 520 & 820 are only 5.1 AVRs so only have 5 channels of amplification on-board.. To deliver Pro Logic II Z, 2 additional channels are required. However the audio DSP processor can decode the IIZ so the pre-outs are provided...

Just my $0.01..
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post #27 of 159 Old 03-02-2010, 03:40 PM
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Pioneer's Press Release says:
Quote:


"Additionally, Pioneer’s proprietary Front Wide speaker arrangement adds additional versatility and dimension to a 7.1 speaker arrangement."

I guess I expected to see a 7.1 Front Wide speaker layout option [in addition to the 7.1 Front Height speaker layout available for use with DPLIIz functionality...?] Did I misinterpret something? or is this just 'info creep' from the (native) 7.1 models to be announced 'soon'?

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post #28 of 159 Old 03-03-2010, 09:12 AM
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Also interesting that both Amazon pre-order pages are touting analog-HDMI conversion and upscaling to 1080p and the manuals indicate that neither can actually do that.

Built a new home, now filling it with sights and sounds!
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post #29 of 159 Old 03-03-2010, 09:41 AM
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I see Pioneer will continue to keep weak amp sections in their non-Elite line (240W and 245W power consumption). Disappointing...
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post #30 of 159 Old 03-03-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dzervit View Post

A BT adapter that let's you not only listen to music but control the receiver and stream files from your device (say a mobile phone, PC, etc...) would be worth $99.

Just music? Rip off.

What's useful is a a Wi-Fi based control interface for iPhone/iPod Touch and Palm Pre/Android etc.

Bluetooth is nothing to write home about. Its range is limited and currently only one technology supports lossless audio streaming over BT. Its bandwidth is limited and it's horribly finicky. Take this from someone who's been using BT equipped Ericssons (they developed it) and Nokias for about a decade. Sure it's better now, but really Wi-Fi is where it's at in a domestic situation. BT was all about power savings in mobile devices.
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