Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #811 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 12:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cr136124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

What about where to put stuff in my room to make it more into a ht room? Speaker placement, tv, rack etc?

I know Brian gave you a hand posting some pics of your room, but to be honest they are very dark. Is there a chance for you to share new pics with the lights on or windows open?

I guess, you should be able to receive more feedback in that area, if people are actually able to see clearly what you have in the room.

Cheers!
cr136124 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #812 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buggs1a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tukwila, WA
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Yes in the last couple pages Brian was so kind and posted them for me.
buggs1a is offline  
post #813 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 12:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buggs1a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tukwila, WA
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I think they're bright enough in general but could use way more light yes.
I have no other light to use and can't open my window. It's covered up completely to keep the sun out lol.

I can possibly try to figure something out.
buggs1a is offline  
post #814 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 03:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
buggs1a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tukwila, WA
Posts: 1,156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
My uncle just died. With Jesus now.
buggs1a is offline  
post #815 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 03:20 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

Thanks.

I'm not sure about spending money on room panels etc. I don't have much room nor money right now but I'll consider it. I've also been told it isn't a big deal in my room.


Right now I've decided to save for a new Integra dtr 50.4 to get audysse xt32. I'll build from there.

You have your priorities reversed. Money spent on room treatments will make far, far more audible difference to your SQ than money spent on any AVR or amp. 

If it is correct that it "isn’t a big deal in your room", what is special about your room that it doesn’t have modes and reflections? (Well, all rooms have modes, so just deal with the reflections).

If you want the biggest improvement in SQ that you can get, then you first address the room and the speakers.

If you say you can’t accommodate room treatments for WAF or aesthetic reasons, that is fair enough - but it doesn't make sense to dismiss room treatments on the grounds of money, and then spending more money still on amps and/or AVRs.

right on the mark... room treatment diy absorbers are cheap too.. you could build 6or 8 for 150 ez make a huge difference...

cheers



160149.jpg
deltadube is offline  
post #816 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 03:26 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

i agree totally. My case in point I cannot do any additional room treatments as the WAF would not work...hell she has let me turn my Living room into a viable HT as it is. but I know that in Buggs case he CAN get a benefit from new speakers. That is the first line of getting a new sound....NOT getting a new receiever.


I highly suggest Buggs looks at a local dealer that could let him try the speakers in house. or he could try the Aperion grands (they offer free shipping both ways so no risk)


After he does that then down the road he can go back to the idea of a new pre/pro and amotiva amp. smile.gif
We are in complete concurrence, Brian. Which is unusual on AVS smile.gif  Absent room treatments for the very good reason of WAF, then the next line of defence against room issues is good electronic EQ such as Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which I cannot praise highly enough. My own room is extensively treated, but I would never be without the 'icing on the cake' that is XT32.

Your suggestion of a local dealer (or the Aperions) is a great one. Riskless evaluation of options!

Hey KBarnes

any chance you could post some pics or your room treatments? what kind are you using diffusors absorbsion etc..

did you make yourself?

thanks
deltadube is offline  
post #817 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 03:27 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

My uncle just died. With Jesus now.

sorry to hear ...
deltadube is offline  
post #818 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 05:16 PM
Member
 
lbrande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

My uncle just died. With Jesus now.

My condolences on the loss of your uncle..
lbrande is offline  
post #819 of 2058 Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cr136124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 674
Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post

My uncle just died. With Jesus now.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I'll keep your uncle on my prayers.
cr136124 is offline  
post #820 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 01:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 18,631
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked: 1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

i agree totally. My case in point I cannot do any additional room treatments as the WAF would not work...hell she has let me turn my Living room into a viable HT as it is. but I know that in Buggs case he CAN get a benefit from new speakers. That is the first line of getting a new sound....NOT getting a new receiever.


I highly suggest Buggs looks at a local dealer that could let him try the speakers in house. or he could try the Aperion grands (they offer free shipping both ways so no risk)


After he does that then down the road he can go back to the idea of a new pre/pro and amotiva amp. smile.gif
We are in complete concurrence, Brian. Which is unusual on AVS smile.gif  Absent room treatments for the very good reason of WAF, then the next line of defence against room issues is good electronic EQ such as Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which I cannot praise highly enough. My own room is extensively treated, but I would never be without the 'icing on the cake' that is XT32.

Your suggestion of a local dealer (or the Aperions) is a great one. Riskless evaluation of options!

Hey KBarnes

any chance you could post some pics or your room treatments? what kind are you using diffusors absorbsion etc..

did you make yourself?

thanks

 

Hi - I am using GIK stuff. 244 broadband absorbers across the wall/ceiling corners and the front corners, with tri-traps in the rear corners. I need more 244s at the back of the room and this is in hand.

 

If I was going again, I'd make my own now I see how relatively easy it is.

 

I do have one pic somewhere  -  I will find it and post it later.

kbarnes701 is online now  
post #821 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 11:29 AM
Member
 
flashman03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Derby KS
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have to say the Aperion Verus grand speakers intrigue me. I am curious if any of you have ever heard them? The few reviews from hometheaterreviews and some others give high praises. Also, I am appreciative you guys posted a link for bass traps. I might look at building some but with my configuration and the fact I might not be in the home but only 1 or 2 more years I might just wait on the undertaking. Great info guys!!
flashman03 is offline  
post #822 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

i agree totally. My case in point I cannot do any additional room treatments as the WAF would not work...hell she has let me turn my Living room into a viable HT as it is. but I know that in Buggs case he CAN get a benefit from new speakers. That is the first line of getting a new sound....NOT getting a new receiever.



I highly suggest Buggs looks at a local dealer that could let him try the speakers in house. or he could try the Aperion grands (they offer free shipping both ways so no risk)



After he does that then down the road he can go back to the idea of a new pre/pro and amotiva amp. smile.gif
We are in complete concurrence, Brian. Which is unusual on AVS smile.gif  Absent room treatments for the very good reason of WAF, then the next line of defence against room issues is good electronic EQ such as Audyssey MultEQ XT32, which I cannot praise highly enough. My own room is extensively treated, but I would never be without the 'icing on the cake' that is XT32.


Your suggestion of a local dealer (or the Aperions) is a great one. Riskless evaluation of options!


Hey KBarnes


any chance you could post some pics or your room treatments? what kind are you using diffusors absorbsion etc..


did you make yourself?


thanks

Hi - I am using GIK stuff. 244 broadband absorbers across the wall/ceiling corners and the front corners, with tri-traps in the rear corners. I need more 244s at the back of the room and this is in hand.

If I was going again, I'd make my own now I see how relatively easy it is.

I do have one pic somewhere  -  I will find it and post it later.

thanks K.. ive made 2 myself so far.. they do work great.. need to get somemore fabric.. ez build.. been making my own 12 awg cables this week

just bi amp my denon 3313 ci to my v 6.3 for the 1st i did notice improvement in the sound quality.. but it seems everyday i notice improvements there still pretty new 150 hrs or so..

but the bi amp which alot of people around here say is useless did in fact make a noticeable difference to my ears... its a 125 w reciecer and 250 w speakers.. i think they want more
power to achieve sonic nirvana eh!!!!

just did the bi amp late last night and really enjoyed the sound improvement..





one thing i did notice after bi amp when watch tv via denon the center channel was not as loud.. do i need to re run audyssey? had to turn volume way higher to hear the center....?

here one of my diy bass traps 6 inches of afb..thick.. really works to stop the bass reasonance .. room limitation of speaker placement

cheers

deltadube is offline  
post #823 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 01:46 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashman03 View Post

I have to say the Aperion Verus grand speakers intrigue me. I am curious if any of you have ever heard them? The few reviews from hometheaterreviews and some others give high praises. Also, I am appreciative you guys posted a link for bass traps. I might look at building some but with my configuration and the fact I might not be in the home but only 1 or 2 more years I might just wait on the undertaking. Great info guys!!

bass traps are simple and ez to build tons of short vids on u tube.. i made appox 2 x4 size for under 20 .. the fabric is the biggest cost on what u want for looks.. i found some cheap plain cotton on sale
to start off with.. should have grabbed a boat load..

they really work!
deltadube is offline  
post #824 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 02:41 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Hey KBarnes you seem like a really knowledgable guy here.. so here is a bit of head trip questions..

denon says

Connecting front speakers with a bi-amp connection
• You cannot use surround back speakers in a bi-amp connection. Use front speakers that support a bi-amp
connection and connect the speakers to the FRONT speaker terminals and the SURROUND BACK
speaker terminals.
In this case, set “Assign Mode” to “Bi-AMP” in steps 3 to 5 for “Set up “Amp Assign”” (vpage 92).
• A bi-amp connection is to connect separate amplifiers to the tweeter terminals and woofer terminals of
speakers compatible with the bi-amp function.

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

the bottom section being the point to consider... so two discrete channels one going to bass the other the tweeter.. prevents the back electromotive force(above).. and then i notice real sound quality improvement to my ears... in stereo and in pure pure direct stereo.. in 5.1 channel loss of volume to center from hd pvr.. thats ok with me i like improvement in sound quality for stereo play more..

so if i get an emotiva amp.. i cant bi amp like the denon does with 2 discrete channels.. how would i achieve this set up with external amps.. 2 mono blocks per speaker? front left to amp to bass and then surround back channel (telling avr to bi amp) and send that signal to second mono block surround back left to mono block to tweeter... would the denon pre out send that signal or would it
send the surround back left.. dont know if bi amp on denon would work for pre outs.. ?

if not

how would you bi amp externally to avoid this electromotive force denon mentions?? some stuff to think about here i guess.. head is spinning..

cheers
deltadube is offline  
post #825 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Theresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Passive bi-amping has no real world effect other than wasting an amp channel and wire costs.
Theresa is offline  
post #826 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 04:14 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Passive bi-amping has no real world effect other than wasting an amp channel and wire costs.

swear to god it sounds better especially in the higher end tweeters... i really noticed

and was cranking much louder too..

maybe its my diy super cables..

Cheers..
deltadube is offline  
post #827 of 2058 Old 01-26-2013, 04:20 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Passive bi-amping has no real world effect other than wasting an amp channel and wire costs.

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers
deltadube is offline  
post #828 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 03:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers

It's their marketers that say this. I don't need to try it. Not only do I know it from the electrical principles I've learned but I also use active crossovers (active biamping). I use miniDSPs as electronic crossovers with an amp channel for each driver. This is what really works. But it is probably beyond your knowledge and skill. Try it and you will see.

PS. the internal crossover of the speaker prevents the woofers from affecting the tweeters in the way you state.
Theresa is offline  
post #829 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 04:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 18,631
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked: 1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Passive bi-amping has no real world effect other than wasting an amp channel and wire costs.

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers

 

Yes, I have tried it.

 

Passive biamping, as Theresa puts it, is a waste of an amp and some wire. It can't make any audible difference unless Denon etc have found a way to bypass the laws of physics. And you remember what Scottie said about that - even in Stardate 5928.5 it stil would not be possible :)  The reason is this pesky, irritating little thing known as the Superposition Theorem. You'd have to google that to find out about it as to discuss it here would take us waaaay off topic. Basically it says that where a circuit has more than one independent source (this is the additional wires running from the additional amp) the voltage/current (it makes no difference) is equal to the sum of the voltage/current you would see if each independent circuit acted on its own (ie each amp in the 'biamped' system was just connected on its own). You will find deeper explanations of this by googling if you want to check it out more.

 

So, when you 'passively biamp' the Superposition Theorem of Physics proves that you can't in fact make any difference, so no difference = no audible difference.

 

The next question is, why do you feel so strongly that you CAN hear a difference. And the answer to that is your pesky brain doesn’t work the way we'd like it to work. Nobody's does - I'm not singling out your brain for special attention :) Your brain (and everyone's) has not been designed to provide you with an objective view of reality. That is why for thousands of years people believed that the sun revolved around the earth - they could SEE it did, using their eyes and their brain. It was 'obvious'. It was similarly obvious that the earth was flat. Later, some clever dudes came along and proved, by independent scientific examination of the phenomena, that the sun did NOT go around the earth at all. For their pains, they were put in prison. People could see that the sun went around the earth and the evidence of their own eyes was far more powerful than some squiggles of math on a bit of paper. Now of course, you won't even get a small fine, let alone be put in prison, for suggesting that the sun does not revolve around the earth.

 

So..... your brain (everyone's brain - this is getting old real fast - can we assume that when I say 'your brain' I mean all the brains in the world today?) your brain fools you into thinking you can hear a difference when no difference exists. This can be placebo effect or expectation bias or a number of other things. It's probably expectation bias though. You wired up for 'biamping' and you expected it to make a difference (two amps, more wire!! Hey - how can it not make a difference?) so your brain told you "yeah deltadube, listen to those highs now - much clearer huh? And the separation - that's better too huh?  And the imaging? Wow!.  The fly in the ointment.... Superposition Theorem. Damn!

 

If you had the facilities to conduct a blind test between your 'biamped' system and your 'regular system' I would be more than happy to bet you my house that you wouldn't reliably be able to tell one system setup from the other. Heck, I know you couldn't, because there is no difference. The laws of Physics are on my side, whereas all you have on yours is that tricky human brain. Just like the dudes who threw Copernicus into prison. 

 

For more reading on 'passive biamping', check this out:

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bi-wire_bi-amp.htm

 

Of course, proper biamping, with active electronic crossovers, like Theresa has, and like you find in 'active' or powered loudspeakers - that is a different thing altogether and has huge benefits.

 

Sorry if this is causing rain on your parade - it is not my intention. The good news is, passive biamping does no harm so you can leave it all set up if that is the way you like it. I mean, look hw many times Jim ignored Scottie..... :)

KMFDMvsEnya likes this.
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #830 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 04:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 18,631
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked: 1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers

It's their marketers that say this. I don't need to try it. Not only do I know it from the electrical principles I've learned but I also use active crossovers (active biamping). I use miniDSPs as electronic crossovers with an amp channel for each driver. This is what really works. But it is probably beyond your knowledge and skill. Try it and you will see.

PS. the internal crossover of the speaker prevents the woofers from affecting the tweeters in the way you state.

 

Yes, I should have mentioned the internal crossovers in the speakers too. I just concentrated on the impossibility of ignoring the laws of physics in the actual amp/wiring side.

 

Deltadube - Theresa is right - you would need to open up your speakers, rip out the crossover (or remove it carefully if you're that kind of guy) and replace it with active, powered, electronic crossovers. I would here add the caution I see at the end of every programme of MythBusters on TV: Do not try this at home!  (Do not even try it at a neighbour's house).

kbarnes701 is online now  
post #831 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 04:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Yes, DIY active crossovers are a challenge. MiniDSPs make it easier and do it better than previous alternatives but it still requires a DIY speaker mentality. You must be ready to essentially build your own speakers with a knowledge of how crossovers function. As you say, don't do this if you don't know what your doing, you can easily burn out tweeters which in my case cost hundreds of dollars.
Theresa is offline  
post #832 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 09:34 AM
Member
 
Lebreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Windsor
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Just curious why do speakers have 4 binding post then? Just for biwiring?
Lebreeze is offline  
post #833 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 10:01 AM
 
runnin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers

It's best just to find what set up that in your system and your room sounds best to your ears, and ignore the lectures and "it's all in your head" comments.
runnin' is offline  
post #834 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 12:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 18,631
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1873 Post(s)
Liked: 1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebreeze View Post

Just curious why do speakers have 4 binding post then? Just for biwiring?

 

Marketing. It makes them look 'audiophile' and costs next to nothing to add them. They serve no real purpose. Biwiring is even more pointless than 'passive biamping'. Well maybe not - at least you don't get to waste a whole amp - just the wire ;)

kbarnes701 is online now  
post #835 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 03:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MUDCAT45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Marketing. It makes them look 'audiophile' and costs next to nothing to add them. They serve no real purpose. Biwiring is even more pointless than 'passive biamping'. Well maybe not - at least you don't get to waste a whole amp - just the wire wink.gif

Keith, would you agree that a good 3 ft expensive power cord benefits sound more than biamping ?

If you are biwiring you should also use cable elevators to keep the current flowing smoothly.
MUDCAT45 is offline  
post #836 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 06:27 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

might also put this quote from denon in here as well

This prevents the back electromotive force (returned force
without output) of the woofer sent to the tweeter, which affects the sound quality of the tweeter, and
you can enjoy playback with higher-quality sound.

why do they write this ..? i know the avs forum is loaded in people with your statement above..

but i tell you it sounds better..

have you tried it?

cheers

It's their marketers that say this. I don't need to try it. Not only do I know it from the electrical principles I've learned but I also use active crossovers (active biamping). I use miniDSPs as electronic crossovers with an amp channel for each driver. This is what really works. But it is probably beyond your knowledge and skill. Try it and you will see.

PS. the internal crossover of the speaker prevents the woofers from affecting the tweeters in the way you state.

its denon quote not mine..

but since you have NOT tried how do you know? practical experience eh can go along way .. over a text book!!!! i tell you it sounds better..

as for judging my Knowledge and skills we can take that up another day...

cheers
deltadube is offline  
post #837 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 06:30 PM
 
deltadube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 1,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebreeze View Post

Just curious why do speakers have 4 binding post then? Just for biwiring?

Marketing. It makes them look 'audiophile' and costs next to nothing to add them. They serve no real purpose. Biwiring is even more pointless than 'passive biamping'. Well maybe not - at least you don't get to waste a whole amp - just the wire wink.gif

i do not think bi wiring has no purpose especially if you have higher gauge wire.. by bi wiring you would be lowering the resitance of the wire... tongue.gif

cheers
deltadube is offline  
post #838 of 2058 Old 01-27-2013, 11:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Just thought I'd post an update in regards to my experience with the xpa-5 since I have had it connected for several days now.

I have really put my system through its paces with a variety of music and it all has sounded sooo good....good as in clear and clean. I had a co-worker over for an evening of music listening. She is in her own right a budding audio enthusiast. Her dad is a consultant for a custom installer and she has had the opportunity to listen to a variety of gear when growing up. She like me is a music lover first. She was very impressed with the clarity, loudness and fullness of my set up. She never heard of emotiva before, and now she wants me to help her set up a system for her in a few months and she is very open to emotiva gear, especially when i told her the price tag of the amp.

I have only watched one blu-ray movie since the xpa-5 install...Ted...good comedy flick, but not much for reference demo material. I have however been re-watching the first season of Babylon 5 on dvd, again not the best "reference level source". This particular TV series on dvd was always difficult for me to dial in to sound "right" before. Especially with respect to the voices. I would either have to turn it up to where voices started to sound a bit harsh or I would have enable dynamic volume in order to get it to sound "right" to me, which of course changes the dynamic range of the source. With the xpa-5, this is no longer the case. It is very clear and I can fully understand the dialog and can have it at a nice volume level to fully experience the "fullness" of the surround mix. I was not expecting this and am very impressed. My set up is not my first experience with hi-fi gear. I grew up in a house hold where dad always had the latest and greatest a/v stuff and have heard a variety of speakers, amps, receivers etc over the years. However, finally I feel like I am on "par" with what I remember hearing when growing up...even though my speakers themselves are not exceptionally high-end.

One interesting thing I have discovered in regards to HBO broadcasts. I have read here on avs about members experiencing small static pops when watching HBO, even at moderate and low volume levels...evidently it has something to do with the way HBO compresses their content. I never heard them previously, but while channel surfing I landed upon HBO playing Galaxy Quest and I watched a few minutes of it and l heard the popping noises for the first time. I can only guess that either the xpa-5 is more sensitive to picking up this compressed distortion or that dish network has changed the way HBO is fed to me within the last week.

Something else that I have done set up wise with the inclusion of the xpa-5 is that I have set my crossovers much lower. Previously I pretty much did the 80hz crossover thing, even though audyssey in conjunction with onkyo's auto cal routine would measure the -3 frequency response in my room of my speakers at 40hz. I did play with the settings sometimes, and would sometimes prefer a 60hz crossover on my mains. Now with the xpa-5 in the mix it allows the lower notes to be played much more easily and I have left all my speakers at 40hz after running audyssey. I must say that there is a noticeable increase in volume and clarity of mid bass frequencies. Also keep in mind that my subs are not the best out there either (dual psw505's). I haven't decided for sure if I am going to keep my crossovers at 40hz, but it does sound really good crossed that low now. Much less boominess with the lower crossover, though I didn't have a ton of boominess before, there was just enough to be annoying sometimes. For this reason alone I may keep my crossover lower for now until new speakers and subs arrive at my doorstep...but that probably wont be for at least a year if not longer.

All in all in am very pleased with the inclusion of the xpa-5 into my set up. When I moved into my new house late last year and ended up with a larger space then I previously had in the old house, my gear just couldn't keep up with the volume levels I desired at the distance I now use. Previously my main listening position was just under 7 ft from the speakers, now I am much closer to 10.5 ft. That bit of difference along with the increase volume size of my new room was just enough to show the weakness in my avr. Now does everyone need an amp?....not likely, but in the right circumstances adding an external amp can certainly overcome weaknesses when higher spl levels are desired. I also plan to add some room treatments to my room in the near future, as I do get a fair amount of resonating throughout and it is sometimes annoying, but until I add them, I can just turn up the loud knob until I can no longer hear the room resonating tongue.gif

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
67jason is offline  
post #839 of 2058 Old 01-28-2013, 01:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Theresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Its good to hear of another female audio enthusiast.
Theresa is offline  
post #840 of 2058 Old 01-28-2013, 01:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
67jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Its good to hear of another female audio enthusiast.
lol..your comment took me by surprise for a moment....I thought you were calling me a female...then i realized you were referring to my co-worker.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
67jason is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Emotiva Xpa 5 5 Channel Power Amplifier

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off