Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

^^^^

discussions about what goes on at another forum are not appropriate here

move on please, or please leave the thread

Thank you Mark.
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post #1172 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

No, did you read my opening sentence?

AES = Audio Engineering Society www.aes.org

I am done with this.

As if you didn't know it would end this way wink.gif

Good info anyway Don. Some members add value to AVS. Others, not so much.
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post #1173 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 05:32 AM
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How come I stopped coming here, with so much love? wink.gif

I once wrote a computer program to measure average vs. peak level. The dB calculation was lower than expected. Perhaps not all music is as dynamic as is thought. IMO, orchestra music is some of the most dynamic. It's probably best to set your volume based on the loudest part, or you may be running for your volume control smile.gif

Would be interesting to see a simulation of a the kind of music I listen to (rock and new wave,) on my Yamaha 800 series circuitry (with a power supply that can probably do a bit over 100 W/c in stereo) and see if it really runs out of power and has this IM distortion claimed above.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #1174 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

did you pull 17 db out of a hat i read much higher values than that.. which means atleast 300 - 500 watts for good sound.. less you like muddy bass ...

But in what size room? And with what efficiency speakrs? 88db? 90? 95? You can't throw out watt numbers like that and be taken seriously because you refuse to look at the other half of the equation.

Seems to boil down to two camps. There are those, like Don, who understand the science behind it and as a result they know that they do not need 1000 watts amps in anything but the most extraordinary of circumstances. And there are those, like Delta, who don't understand the science and therefore assume that more is always better. "If a 200 watt amp is good then a 1000 watt amp must be 5 times as good".

 

Delta doesn't 'get' the relevance of speaker efficiency, listening distance and required SPLs and how these relate to the required amp power, so he just assumes more is better, without trying to understand why he is wrong. (I mean no disrespect, Delta, but your repeated ignoring of the issues seems to back my opinion).  It's the same with the 'magic cables' argument: those who understand what cables actually do buy decent stuff from Monoprice or Blue Jeans. Those who don't understand get sucked into paying hundreds of dollars for 'magic cables' that do absolutely nothing to improve SQ (and sometimes actually harm it). 

 

I doubt if we will ever convince the 'ignorant enthusiasts' though no matter how hard we try.

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post #1175 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The accepted (AES) peak-to-average ratio in music is about 17 dB, a power factor of 50.

A pair of 90 dB/m/W speakers at 12' require 0.67 W to reach 80 dB, a pretty loud average level (I imagine that is louder than most of us would like). To reach 97 dB (17 dB higher for those transient peaks) requires 33.3 W.

If the speakers are only 87 dB sensitivity then you need 1.33 W to reach 80 dB and 66.7 W to reach 97 dB.

Most amplifiers will deliver as much as 1 - 3 dB more power on fast transients. I am not sure how clipping corrupts ("smears") the time domain; it does add higher-order frequency content but the edges are still intact (faster, arguably). Note "fast" in the audio world is not generally microseconds; few power amps and fewer speakers have that sort of bandwidth. The rise time of a 20 kHz sine wave is a little under 15 us. It is true we can discriminate time differences of a few microseconds, but a realistic fast transient is tens of microseconds rising and hundreds of us or more in duration.

Movies are reputed to require greater dynamic range, but I'm struggling to see why a 500-1000 W amplifier is required by most people. Their money would be better spent on music and movies.

I strongly suspect we have as many if not more technical experts on AVS as the Emotiva forums but have no way of ascertaining either way. Nor do I really care. Nor do I have any hope of teaching "da Delta" anything he/she/it does not already know, but perhaps others can benefit (or not). I am sure I will be told to go over there and learn something now... smile.gif Unfortunately, I need to get back to practicing, concert in a couple of weeks and I'm behind.

did you pull 17 db out of a hat i read much higher values than that.. which means atleast 300 - 500 watts for good sound.. less you like muddy bass ...

No, did you read my opening sentence?

AES = Audio Engineering Society www.aes.org

I am done with this.

 

I can well understand your frustration - but your masterly post above explains the issues in a way nobody (who takes the time to read it) can fail to understand and so the effort will not have been wasted if it prevents just one poor sap wasting a small fortune on unnecessary and pointless amp power.  Let's hope so anyway.

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post #1176 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

just an average estimate...

need more head room the 17 db..

40 db is more like it

cheers

 

You really, really don't understand this do you?  You are saying that you need 40dB headroom over an average listening level of 80dB?  That would take you to 120dB then on peaks?

 

If a 200 watt amp is capable of delivering the 80dB (which it easily is as Don demonstrates in his post), you are saying you need more power for this 40dB headroom you bandy about (plucked out of the air as you wrongly accused Don of doing).

 

OK - so lets look at it... 200 watts comfortably gives you 80dB. Every additional 3dB demands a doubling of amp power. So 83dB needs a 400 watt amp. 86dB needs an 800 watt amp. 89dB needs a 1,600 watt amp - even more than the 1000 watt amps you keep mentioning. Keep going until you reach 120dB (your 40dB of headroom over the 80dB average) and you need... go on, work it out... yes, you need a 3,200,000 watt amplifier. Know of any? ;)

 

Being more sensible, work it out using Don's figure of 1.3 watts for 80dB from speakers with an average efficiency of 87dB/1w/1m. So you'll need 2.6 watts for 83dB, 5.2 watts for 86dB, 10 watts for 89dB, 20 watts for 92dB, 40 watts for 95dBm 80 watts for 98dB, 160 watts for 101dB, 320 watts for 104dB, and so on up to 120dB which will require an amp capable of delivering 20,000 watts!  Know af any? ;) And that is if you listen at a distance of 3 feet from your speakers....

 

Do you see how your repeated postion doesn't actually add up?

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post #1177 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 08:35 AM
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You realize of course how many people are right now wondering the same question.... right? You do know the question...

How many 3.2 million watt mono blocks can I run off 1-15 amp circuit?
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post #1178 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 08:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, that is what you said before which prompted me to reply as above. I'll try for the third time and then give up: if you already have enough power to cleanly hit the SPLs required, and you can hit them with 3dB 'left over', what is the point of more power than that? 


3dB headroom represents a doubling of amp power, so if you have 3dB of headroom in a 300 watt amp, you are using just 150 watts to hit the required SPLs cleanly. So explain to me how a 1000 watt amp helps. By "explain" I mean tell me what those extra watts are giving you - don't just repeat what you said twice before in slightly different words, or we'll be here for ever smile.gif

By way of assistance, can you explain why you say the "peaks can easily demand 1000 watts". If someone has a 200 watt amp, then swapping to a 1000 watt amp will give them an additional 7.5dB. But if they are hitting reference peaks (105dB) cleanly with 200 watts, what is the point of the extra 7.5dB?  This is especially true as almost nobody uses Reference levels at home - not even FilmMixer who does this for a living.

You are ignoring too many things - the efficiency of the speakers, the required SPLs, the power handling capacity of the speakers etc. Incidentally, I'd like to see the specs of domestic speakers that can handle 1000 watts.

OK, here you go Keith. This is what it takes for "up to 2000 watts RMS (program)" power handling. smile.gif

Specs here: http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-212ht-lp/

Pics of speakers and coaxial CD* here: http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/Noesis-212HT-and-212HTLP-Speaker-Thread-6035610

* ~US$700 on its own.

And to illustrate your well made point above (and not stray too far from the topic smile.gif ) about taking variables into account: They have a sensitivity of 101dB/1W/1m, which means they will play at reference level (approx. 105dB peaks) with 3dB in reserve, on about 40 watts of power. A mini-X a-100 is all that's required!

Oh, by the way it looks like your mention of 7.5dB above is what Delta latched onto as his target headroom (post 1139)... perhaps figuring that this would justify a 1kW amp? This 7.5dB was later supersized to 40dB (post 1168) on the basis of some as yet unattributed "Abstract" that appears to be examining clipping of overshoots due to transient intermodulation distortion (post 1148). rolleyes.gif
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post #1179 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

should head over to the emotiva forums for futher lessons K...

3 db head room is not enough man.. u need atleast 7.5 db of head room of da power for the peaks and u know it..

cheers


^^^^^still don't get where the "1000 watt peaks" come from??? Could you
Eggsplain it to me more better??? Even a link would be good. I need more
Ed-u-cation. Does it stop at 1000 watts?? Or can it go as high as 10,000
Watts
.

Indeed, it can grasshoppers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The accepted (AES) peak-to-average ratio in music is about 17 dB, a power factor of 50.

A pair of 90 dB/m/W speakers at 12' require 0.67 W to reach 80 dB, a pretty loud average level (I imagine that is louder than most of us would like). To reach 97 dB (17 dB higher for those transient peaks) requires 33.3 W.

If the speakers are only 87 dB sensitivity then you need 1.33 W to reach 80 dB and 66.7 W to reach 97 dB.

Most amplifiers will deliver as much as 1 - 3 dB more power on fast transients. I am not sure how clipping corrupts ("smears") the time domain; it does add higher-order frequency content but the edges are still intact (faster, arguably). Note "fast" in the audio world is not generally microseconds; few power amps and fewer speakers have that sort of bandwidth. The rise time of a 20 kHz sine wave is a little under 15 us. It is true we can discriminate time differences of a few microseconds, but a realistic fast transient is tens of microseconds rising and hundreds of us or more in duration.

Movies are reputed to require greater dynamic range, but I'm struggling to see why a 500-1000 W amplifier is required by most people. Their money would be better spent on music and movies.

I strongly suspect we have as many if not more technical experts on AVS as the Emotiva forums but have no way of ascertaining either way. Nor do I really care. Nor do I have any hope of teaching "da Delta" anything he/she/it does not already know, but perhaps others can benefit (or not). I am sure I will be told to go over there and learn something now... smile.gif Unfortunately, I need to get back to practicing, concert in a couple of weeks and I'm behind.

did you pull 17 db out of a hat i read much higher values than that.. which means atleast 300 - 500 watts for good sound.. less you like muddy bass ...

No, did you read my opening sentence?

AES = Audio Engineering Society www.aes.org

I am done with this.

just an average estimate...

need more head room the 17 db..

40 db is more like it

cheers

10,000 Watts <=> 40dB gain eek.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #1180 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Indeed, it can grasshoppers:
10,000 Watts <=> 40dB gain eek.gifbiggrin.gif

I humbly stand corrected!! Love it. LMAO
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post #1181 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

You realize of course how many people are right now wondering the same question.... right? You do know the question...

How many 3.2 million watt mono blocks can I run off 1-15 amp circuit?

 

LOL. In fact, the required power comes from your own nuclear power station in the yard, connected directly by cable to the speakers. I believe Monster do a suitable 'upgrade' cable.

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post #1182 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

OK, here you go Keith. This is what it takes for "up to 2000 watts RMS (program)" power handling. smile.gif

Specs here: http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-212ht-lp/

Pics of speakers and coaxial CD* here: http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.com/post/Noesis-212HT-and-212HTLP-Speaker-Thread-6035610

* ~US$700 on its own.

And to illustrate your well made point above (and not stray too far from the topic smile.gif ) about taking variables into account: They have a sensitivity of 101dB/1W/1m, which means they will play at reference level (approx. 105dB peaks) with 3dB in reserve, on about 40 watts of power. A mini-X a-100 is all that's required!

Oh, by the way it looks like your mention of 7.5dB above is what Delta latched onto as his target headroom (post 1139)... perhaps figuring that this would justify a 1kW amp? This 7.5dB was later supersized to 40dB (post 1168) on the basis of some as yet unattributed "Abstract" that appears to be examining clipping of overshoots due to transient intermodulation distortion (post 1148). rolleyes.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Ed-u-cation. Does it stop at 1000 watts?? Or can it go as high as 10,000
Watts
.

Indeed, it can grasshoppers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

 
40 db is more like it

cheers

10,000 Watts <=> 40dB gain eek.gifbiggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Indeed, it can grasshoppers:
10,000 Watts <=> 40dB gain eek.gifbiggrin.gif

I humbly stand corrected!! Love it. LMAO

 

 

It seems there is no limit to da power needed... :)

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post #1183 of 2048 Old 04-23-2013, 03:24 PM
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There's no way 40 dB over average level makes sense.

A well recording digital track could have over 100 dB of peak to noise floor. But you don't set your volume control with that in mind. You set your volume control, ideally, such that the loudest sound does not cause you, your loved ones or your neighbors discomfort (or maybe you ignore your neighbors occasionally, and send your loved ones to the market.)

Ideally, I would set movie dialog between 70 dB and 80 dB, and peaks at 90 to 90 dB. That would keep me from picking up the remote to constantly adjust the volume. Other people would have a different set of numbers. But, in my case, that means my desired dynamic range (dialog vs. explosion for example) would be about 15 dB. If I was younger, and could hear normally (too much loud rock in my youth) I would choose more. But still, a reasonable dynamic range would be similar to reference level which is 25 dB. Very fair, IMO.

But you still set your peaks regardless of dynamic level. That means your peak power demands are set by the volume control, the mix, and speakers ( less sensitive speakers will need more power.) Also acoustics could come into play, because a very large or sound absorbing room will need more power IMO. The upper power level is capped no matter how you slice it. I still guess that 100 watts is plenty for many normal scenarios. If you can afford it, 200 watts / ch is not an unreasonable amount of amp power, because you can go with a stack of Crown XLS 1500 for $1600. Not cheap, but people spend way more than that. After that the law of diminishing returns makes further gains unreasonably expensive. If you are wealthy, you could buy the biggest amps they make. But we have left the realm most of us live in.

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post #1184 of 2048 Old 04-24-2013, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

There's no way 40 dB over average level makes sense.

A well recording digital track could have over 100 dB of peak to noise floor. But you don't set your volume control with that in mind. You set your volume control, ideally, such that the loudest sound does not cause you, your loved ones or your neighbors discomfort (or maybe you ignore your neighbors occasionally, and send your loved ones to the market.)

Ideally, I would set movie dialog between 70 dB and 80 dB, and peaks at 90 to 90 dB. That would keep me from picking up the remote to constantly adjust the volume. Other people would have a different set of numbers. But, in my case, that means my desired dynamic range (dialog vs. explosion for example) would be about 15 dB. If I was younger, and could hear normally (too much loud rock in my youth) I would choose more. But still, a reasonable dynamic range would be similar to reference level which is 25 dB. Very fair, IMO.

But you still set your peaks regardless of dynamic level. That means your peak power demands are set by the volume control, the mix, and speakers ( less sensitive speakers will need more power.) Also acoustics could come into play, because a very large or sound absorbing room will need more power IMO. The upper power level is capped no matter how you slice it. I still guess that 100 watts is plenty for many normal scenarios. If you can afford it, 200 watts / ch is not an unreasonable amount of amp power, because you can go with a stack of Crown XLS 1500 for $1600. Not cheap, but people spend way more than that. After that the law of diminishing returns makes further gains unreasonably expensive. If you are wealthy, you could buy the biggest amps they make. But we have left the realm most of us live in.

 

Excellent contribution MJH.  Even ignoring the cash element though, there is just no purpose in having hundreds of (expensive) watts 'left on the table'.   Of course, so long as those who choose to buy 1,000 watt monoblocks etc understand why they are doing it (bragging rights mostly) and aren’t labouring under the misapprehension that they have somehow magically improved their SQ by having hundreds of unused watts, then it is their prerogative to spend their money any way they choose. What winds me up is when they come onto the forums and state as 'fact' that everyone will benefit from better SQ if they buy a vastly overpowered (for their needs) amp. The tragedy is that if they had spent that money instead where it really does matter (speakers and room) they would really get a major improvement in SQ. 

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post #1185 of 2048 Old 04-24-2013, 12:09 PM
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I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1186 of 2048 Old 04-25-2013, 01:27 PM
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I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...

I was hoping to add a giant plushy Pikachu to absorb those standing waves. Will that work?

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post #1187 of 2048 Old 04-25-2013, 01:51 PM
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I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...

I think it's because they feel that dollars and big numbers on specification sheets will buy them better sq, when they don't consider the actual acoustic environment. Moving a speaker a little bit will have a much more pronounced effect than, say (as an example) a high dollar interconnect.
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post #1188 of 2048 Old 04-25-2013, 08:39 PM
 
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Did you hear the news

the first mega watt mono block to be released real soon!!!

cheers..

now thats da power...
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post #1189 of 2048 Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 PM
 
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Da real power is the way a person can be separated from his money.
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post #1190 of 2048 Old 04-26-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...

 

Quite. I have spent a fairly large amount of money on my 7.1 sound system - but the biggest improvement of all, without question, came from spending far, far less on room treatments. Plus a few dollars on a calibrated mic and some time invested in learning REW, so I knew what to do with the room treatments.

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post #1191 of 2048 Old 04-26-2013, 05:37 AM
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Da real power is the way a person can be separated from his money.

 

Oh yes. If Barnum hadn't been into circuses, he surely would have been a 'high end' audio salesman...

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post #1192 of 2048 Old 04-26-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...

I think it's because they feel that dollars and big numbers on specification sheets will buy them better sq, when they don't consider the actual acoustic environment. Moving a speaker a little bit will have a much more pronounced effect than, say (as an example) a high dollar interconnect.

Years ago, I used to be this man. I spent thousands of dollars, regularly, on changing amps and speakers and sources - all in search of 'better sound'. Obviously, as I was seeking better sound, it follows that I was dissatisfied with the sound in the first place. Something was 'missing' or 'not quite right' and so on. In those days, due to my own ignorance and too much reliance on 'professionals' (take a bow, Martin Colloms etc) I swapped out amps and speakers like I was changing my socks. And guess what - I still felt something was missing or not quite right. And so it went on. Eventually I became disillusioned with it all and took a break of several years from paying any attention to audio systems. After a while, I returned to the fold and started to try to learn about acoustics and electronics and so on, with a view to trying to understand why I was never satisfied, regardless of how much money I spent.

 

Eventually, the penny dropped and I learned the importance of the single most relevant component in the system: the room. From there, it all dropped into place. I realised that so-called 'high end' amplifiers were a waste of my money if the best SQ was the goal. It dawned on me that putting 10,000 dollar speakers into a cr&p room was simply wasting them. I learned that 2,000 dollar speakers in a far better room would give me more than the 10,000 dollar speakers in a poor room. And so on. No longer any need to pay ridiculous money for 'exotic' cables. No longer any need to ay ridiculous money for a Krell amp. And so on. And today, the SQ I enjoy daily is by far the best I have ever experienced at home - and from a considerably lower investment.

 

I feel that many people are still on the stage of the journey that I was on years ago. Fortunately, today's generation of audio enthusiasts has these forums to help guide them. In my day we had 'Hifi Choice' and writers who, in truth, knew nothing. It all boils down to one simple piece of advice I think: the room is the most important 'component' in your system and certainly the most influential of the SQ you experience. So spend some money and some effort there, and you will reap BIG rewards. Once you have the room right, by all means spend money on speakers and amps if that's what turns you on. But chances are, you won't feel the need to 'upgrade' all the time and will just sit back and revel in the sound of your music and movies.

 

Just my opinion of course.

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post #1193 of 2048 Old 04-26-2013, 12:25 PM
 
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I cringe whenever I think about how many folk have spent a couple of grand on amps and nothing on room treatment...


I think it's because they feel that dollars and big numbers on specification sheets will buy them better sq, when they don't consider the actual acoustic environment. Moving a speaker a little bit will have a much more pronounced effect than, say (as an example) a high dollar interconnect.
Years ago, I used to be this man. I spent thousands of dollars, regularly, on changing amps and speakers and sources - all in search of 'better sound'. Obviously, as I was seeking better sound, it follows that I was dissatisfied with the sound in the first place. Something was 'missing' or 'not quite right' and so on. In those days, due to my own ignorance and too much reliance on 'professionals' (take a bow, Martin Colloms etc) I swapped out amps and speakers like I was changing my socks. And guess what - I still felt something was missing or not quite right. And so it went on. Eventually I became disillusioned with it all and took a break of several years from paying any attention to audio systems. After a while, I returned to the fold and started to try to learn about acoustics and electronics and so on, with a view to trying to understand why I was never satisfied, regardless of how much money I spent.

Eventually, the penny dropped and I learned the importance of the single most relevant component in the system: the room. From there, it all dropped into place. I realised that so-called 'high end' amplifiers were a waste of my money if the best SQ was the goal. It dawned on me that putting 10,000 dollar speakers into a cr&p room was simply wasting them. I learned that 2,000 dollar speakers in a far better room would give me more than the 10,000 dollar speakers in a poor room. And so on. No longer any need to pay ridiculous money for 'exotic' cables. No longer any need to ay ridiculous money for a Krell amp. And so on. And today, the SQ I enjoy daily is by far the best I have ever experienced at home - and from a considerably lower investment.

I feel that many people are still on the stage of the journey that I was on years ago. Fortunately, today's generation of audio enthusiasts has these forums to help guide them. In my day we had 'Hifi Choice' and writers who, in truth, knew nothing. It all boils down to one simple piece of advice I think: the room is the most important 'component' in your system and certainly the most influential of the SQ you experience. So spend some money and some effort there, and you will reap BIG rewards. Once you have the room right, by all means spend money on speakers and amps if that's what turns you on. But chances are, you won't feel the need to 'upgrade' all the time and will just sit back and revel in the sound of your music and movies.

Just my opinion of course.

when will you post some pics of your room treatments...?

room acoustics are very important agreed K...

so you are a recovering audio addict eh..

cheers
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post #1194 of 2048 Old 04-26-2013, 02:27 PM
 
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Just wanted to thank you for sharing your personal testimony Keith. You are one of the champions of this forum. Keep up the good work mate. smile.gif
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post #1195 of 2048 Old 04-27-2013, 04:43 AM
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when will you post some pics of your room treatments...?

room acoustics are very important agreed K...

so you are a recovering audio addict eh..

cheers

 

Yep, my name is Keith and I am an audioholic.... :)  I posted a photo of the room recently but I can't recall in which thread. I'll find it and post it here.

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post #1196 of 2048 Old 04-29-2013, 02:23 AM
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hi emotiva owners,

XPA-3 owner here, smile.gif and I am wondering why xpa3 is 47 kohms input impedance compared to XPA2 and XPA5. Was this done on purpose or just bad mix of ICs and/or capacitors etc.? rolleyes.gif

Does 47 kohms mean we need to crank up the volume of our AV/R more to achieve equal volume with XPA5 which is 23 kohms? Or is it better than a 23kohms impedance? mad.gif

I am not good in electrical nor in electronics, but my simple knowledge lead me to conclude that we need more volume for XPA3. In turn, the AV/R produces more wattage/power to achieve our desired volume. And increase AV/R's heat in the process. Or it might destroy my beloved AV/Rs? eek.gif

Your explanation/clarifications is highly appreciated.

Thanks.
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post #1197 of 2048 Old 04-29-2013, 07:22 PM
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May be a typo, and I think it is different in the current manual. However, let's use your numbers and take a look. The issue is the voltage divider formed by the output impedance of the preamp or AVR into the amplifier. Most preamps include a series output resistor that bumps the impedance to about 100 ohms. Using that and looking at the voltage division at the input of the amplifier:

47 k-ohm input: Vout = (47000/47100) = 0.998, or -0.018 dB
23 k-ohm input: Vout = (23000/23100) = 0.996, or -0.038 dB

The difference is 0.019 dB. Nobody can hear that.

Don't worry, be happy, it doesn't matter! smile.gif

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1198 of 2048 Old 04-30-2013, 11:57 AM
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Hey guys I need some assistance I recently got the Xpa 5 last week and have been playing with I love it so far I have it hooked up to a pioneer elite SC 35, so my question is for some reason my rears aren't working with the Xpa so I have them connected to my pioneer I'm I gonna lose sound and has anyone else had this problem any help will be appreciate.
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post #1199 of 2048 Old 04-30-2013, 05:07 PM
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I doubt you'll notice any loss of sound. However, have you done any troubleshooting? Any red lights on the amp? If you swap the fronts and rear cables at the rear of the amplifier, do the speakers work? If you swap the interconnects, what happens? Try to see where the problem is starting, at the AVR or the amp. It may be as simple as a bad cable or mis-wring someplace. Also make sure the switch is to the RCA and not XLR (balanced) inputs if you have switches (I can't recall on the XPA-5).

BTW, I have no problems with my Pioneer SC-27 and Emotiva amps. I did get the input switch wrong once and that caused me some panic before figuring it out.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #1200 of 2048 Old 04-30-2013, 11:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I doubt you'll notice any loss of sound. However, have you done any troubleshooting? Any red lights on the amp? If you swap the fronts and rear cables at the rear of the amplifier, do the speakers work? If you swap the interconnects, what happens? Try to see where the problem is starting, at the AVR or the amp. It may be as simple as a bad cable or mis-wring someplace. Also make sure the switch is to the RCA and not XLR (balanced) inputs if you have switches (I can't recall on the XPA-5).

BTW, I have no problems with my Pioneer SC-27 and Emotiva amps. I did get the input switch wrong once and that caused me some panic before figuring it out.

all channels have the rca xlr unbal bal switch...

sounds like interconnects..

cheers
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