Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Another thing to consider when adding an external amp to an AVR is that you'll be taking quite a bit of load off the AVR's amp section. While the amps would still be active, they would be in low-power mode which would keep things cooler inside the AVR. Even at that, I'd probably only add the amp if the SPL levels needed are close to or exceed what the AVR will provide by itself. If there are still 3 to 6 dB of head room after calculating what is needed, then don't expect any difference or a huge difference when adding an external amp.

In my case, I have a medium-sized room and was running a Denon AVR rated at 142 watts/channel in a 7-channel setup. I wanted to go with an 11-channel setup, so an external amp was a requirement. Added an Emotiva XPR-5 for the heck of it. Only a single space left for a single component, so I went with the biggest amp I could get in that hole. I did try an XPA-5 and it wasn't enough for me for 2-channel music vs. just the AVR. On Denon's dB scale of -80 to +18, there is absolutely NO difference between AVR and AVR+Amp at gains less than -25 dB. Where I DO notice a difference is at levels above -25 dB but the levels are pretty-much intolerable at 0 dB and above. It sounds nice and clean but it is just way too loud to endure through an entire movie. -20 dB is where I usually have the gain at for movies with Neo:X, but I doubt I'm using more than 40% of the Emotiva XPR5's power as evidenced by not seeing very tall blue-light columns on the amp -- 5 or 6 leds peak including the bottom one, which is always lit.

 

  I like the blue rays around -12db... dvds -18 db..

 

   my denon avr  would be super hot with out external amps  and the sound quality is so much better as well..

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post #1982 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post

  I like the blue rays around -12db... dvds -18 db..

   my denon avr  would be super hot with out external amps  and the sound quality is so much better as well..

Makes no sense at those listening levels to have any advantage from an external amp. Maybe your Denon is defective...

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post #1983 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 02:10 PM
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Does anyone have a link to the service / repair manual for Emotiva amps ? PM me or post here if you can, it would be a great help. I can't find it on Google anywhere.
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post #1984 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 05:36 PM
 
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post


Makes no sense at those listening levels to have any advantage from an external amp. Maybe your Denon is defective...

 

 

   the sound quality is way way better night and day difference by having the amps working with

my denon.. the denon is a very weak avr... 

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post #1985 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Does anyone have a link to the service / repair manual for Emotiva amps ? PM me or post here if you can, it would be a great help. I can't find it on Google anywhere.


 

 go to emotiva.com

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post #1986 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

Does anyone have a link to the service / repair manual for Emotiva amps ? PM me or post here if you can, it would be a great help. I can't find it on Google anywhere.


 
 go to emotiva.com

Q) Do you honestly think I didn't do that as my first step? Not everyone on the internet is a complete moron, you know.

They have the user manual on there, which tells you nothing about the internals nor how to systematically ascertain why your unit goes into shutdown mode, let alone how to repair it yourself.

A service manual and a user manual are meant for two entirely different types of people : repairmen / DIYers, vs consumers. Honestly, the user manual is pointless. All it does is tell you who to call when it breaks. Aside from that, how to turn it on. Fairly worthless to even have a manual at all for a piece of equipment with just an ON/OFF switch.
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post #1987 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post


   the sound quality is way way better night and day difference by having the amps working with
my denon.. the denon is a very weak avr... 

There's no way difference between the Denon and Emotiva amp sections are "way way better night and day" different without one being defective.

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post #1988 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 07:37 PM
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I agree, your amp must be defective or your just letting your ear's here things. I too own a Denon amp 4311CI. For the fun of it, I disconnected my passive sub which uses a crown 1500 XLS and for added fun I also used an I nuke 1000dsp. I ran both as Monoblock 1,000+ watts into my SEOS Tempest and QSC 2150. While I heard some difference it was NOT night and day. The pro amps allowed for extra headroom and cleaner sound during explosive scenes. You may want to have your Denon checked or maybe its the total amount of speakers you have running at one time via your Denon. I run 11.6 I use external I nukes for my front 3 and my Denon for sides and rears. Have you considered pro amps? you just paid $999 for a 200 watt 5 ch amp. You could have bought 5 I nukes @ 1000 watts each for the same price. or all 10 ch. @ 500 watts each. Just sayin....

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post #1989 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

I agree, your amp must be defective or your just letting your ear's here things. I too own a Denon amp 4311CI. For the fun of it, I disconnected my passive sub which uses a crown 1500 XLS and for added fun I also used an I nuke 1000dsp. I ran both as Monoblock 1,000+ watts into my SEOS Tempest and QSC 2150. While I heard some difference it was NOT night and day. The pro amps allowed for extra headroom and cleaner sound during explosive scenes. You may want to have your Denon checked or maybe its the total amount of speakers you have running at one time via your Denon. I run 11.6 I use external I nukes for my front 3 and my Denon for sides and rears. Have you considered pro amps? you just paid $999 for a 200 watt 5 ch amp. You could have bought 5 I nukes @ 1000 watts each for the same price. or all 10 ch. @ 500 watts each. Just sayin....

I agree, I owned my Emotiva for a couple years and am selling it because I just don't think reasonably designed speakers should require more than what a typical receiver can put out in terms of distortion-free SPL. I intend to buy self-powered speakers, not so much for the SPLs, but just the convenience of having them designed as a whole with well-integrated components.

Also, this amp is freaking heavy and I'll be glad to give it a new home from someone who can actually use it (or thinks he needs it for some reason).
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post #1990 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 08:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post


Q) Do you honestly think I didn't do that as my first step? Not everyone on the internet is a complete moron, you know.

They have the user manual on there, which tells you nothing about the internals nor how to systematically ascertain why your unit goes into shutdown mode, let alone how to repair it yourself.

A service manual and a user manual are meant for two entirely different types of people : repairmen / DIYers, vs consumers. Honestly, the user manual is pointless. All it does is tell you who to call when it breaks. Aside from that, how to turn it on. Fairly worthless to even have a manual at all for a piece of equipment with just an ON/OFF switch.

 

 

  emotiva.com   try the emo forums for help since emo is closed.. otherwise call emo...

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post #1991 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 08:10 PM
 
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There's no way difference between the Denon and Emotiva amp sections are "way way better night and day" different without one being defective.

 

  oh yeah there are way way better for sure especially after you increase the volume above -25db area...  it so easy to hear the improvement in the sound quality.  

 

  my speakers just love the power...

 

   maybe you should by an amp and hear it for your self..

 

   remember you will never hear what you are missing... 

 

 cheers

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post #1992 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 08:31 PM
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im missing your point Cableguy. no one is bashing emotiva or their amps. Some of the points you are stating make no sense though. I have owned quite a few AVR's and external amps. Onkyo, Integra, Denon, Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh and Krell, Crown, I nukes, etc. The speakers you own and their efficiency "can" dictate the type of amp you require whether its an AVR or External amp. Try connecting a Denon AVR to a pair of B&W 800D. It will fail, so will most underpowered external amps. However when you connect a 500 watt mono block from McIntosh or other brand the stage opens right up. yes I have heard an Emo XPA 5 and it failed as well. Emotiva makes great amps for their price but no "single" amp is the "best" An Emotiva XPA-5 amp is NOT the holy grail of amps or every other manufacturer would be out of business.
People have owned/auditioned Emotiva amps, some like them and some dont. Its the same with speakers and other equipment. Accept that they are NOT the best in every category and try not to be biased toward one brand. $999 for a 5 ch 200wpc amp is not a bad price, if your happy with your purchase that's awesome but to claim its a night and day difference makes you sound ignorant. Most people on this site are actually quite intelligent when its comes to audio. Your comments remind me of a young Magnolia (best buy) sales clerk who tried to tell me Martin Logan Electrostats were a brand new technology. The clerk was barely 18, I politely correct her and told her to do some research before making those claims. She admitted she was never trained so I helped educator for a few min. We laughed and moved on. please do the same. cool.gif

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post #1993 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post

  oh yeah there are way way better for sure especially after you increase the volume above -25db area...  it so easy to hear the improvement in the sound quality.  

  my speakers just love the power...

   maybe you should by an amp and hear it for your self..

   remember you will never hear what you are missing... 

 cheers

Your speakers don't know one amps watts from another nor could you in a dbt I'd bet. I have been using power amps since the early 80s, how about you? They just don't have magical properties because they have more power. Especially at lower listening levels as you mentioned.

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post #1994 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 08:52 PM
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but the special I.C. cables and speaker wire does. LOL sorry, couldn't resist. Whenever someone tries so hard to justify their purchase.... they too know they've been snookered. smile.gif I have some really special $3000 per foot speaker wire for ya... Guaranteed it makes your speakers sound way better.. A night and day difference. eek.gif *sorry, had to include some sarcasm* its getting late.

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post #1995 of 2048 Old 05-17-2014, 09:16 PM
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I'd have to agree that mine wasn't a " night and day " difference either but, in my case, we are talking about the top-notch amplification in the $5500 list Denon AVR-5308ci paired with an Emotiva XPR-5 I paid $1400 for. Since only the top tier of Denon AVR's have pre-out capability they also have decent amplification of at least 100 REAL watts per channel. The only real reason to add the amp in my case was to provide more channels of amplification after I got the XT32/3D upgrade done on the Denon. I could have gone the cheap route and just added a 2-channel amp to get to a 9-channel setup, but I just decided to have a stronger " core " 5-channel setup for the 90% of my movie collection that doesn't go beyond standard Dolby/DTS. All of my speakers in the " core " setup can handle 400 to 1000 watts RMS a piece. The other surround speakers can handle 225 to 300 watts RMS. With my current 5-channel amp, I'm good for at least an 11 channel Atmos setup and will only need a modest 2nd amp for the addition of ceiling speakers. I'm already wired for the additional speakers and still have a couple of dedicated 20 amp circuits for additional amps.

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post #1996 of 2048 Old 05-18-2014, 11:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

but the special I.C. cables and speaker wire does. LOL sorry, couldn't resist. Whenever someone tries so hard to justify their purchase.... they too know they've been snookered. smile.gif I have some really special $3000 per foot speaker wire for ya... Guaranteed it makes your speakers sound way better.. A night and day difference. eek.gif *sorry, had to include some sarcasm* its getting late.

 

  oh my cables are way better an cost much less.. 

 

    you will never know what your missing when it come to adding amp power to the system..  the dynamic and transients are just so much better with the head room..

 

     I will agree  low volume  below -25 not much point  but I like to feel and hear my music with out blowing my tweeters from clipping..

 

     sorry pal but your just not going to have great sound quality without the power ..

 

      

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post #1997 of 2048 Old 05-18-2014, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post

  oh my cables are way better an cost much less.. 

    you will never know what your missing when it come to adding amp power to the system..  the dynamic and transients are just so much better with the head room..

     I will agree  low volume  below -25 not much point  but I like to feel and hear my music with out blowing my tweeters from clipping..

     sorry pal but your just not going to have great sound quality without the power ..

   

With your stated amp power on tap, and the listening levels you mentioned, how could you be anywhere remotely close to clipping? Just what speakers do you use?

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post #1998 of 2048 Old 05-18-2014, 01:46 PM
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Hey guys, first post, been a lurker for many years.

I 've had a Denon 3805 (120 wpc) for ten years and it has been a solid workhorse. I mostly listen to music, sacd, dvda, bluray, and vinyl in surround and 4 way stereo.

All of my speakers are the same, (Zu Audio Def Omen plus center 98db eff.) and I added a XPA-5 to my system and couldn't be happier.

I gotta agree with Cableguy about the increase in the quality of sound, my speakers are now reproducing more bass, less distortion and I believe it's because of the expanded headroom.

I don't know how my rec. compares to his as far as power, but I agree with what he is saying about the value of more headroom.
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post #1999 of 2048 Old 05-18-2014, 01:51 PM
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Hey guys, first post, been a lurker for many years.

I 've had a Denon 3805 (120 wpc) for ten years and it has been a solid workhorse. I mostly listen to music, sacd, dvda, bluray, and vinyl in surround and 4 way stereo.

All of my speakers are the same, (Zu Audio Def Omen plus center 98db eff.) and I added a XPA-5 to my system and couldn't be happier.

I gotta agree with Cableguy about the increase in the quality of sound, my speakers are now reproducing more bass, less distortion and I believe it's because of the expanded headroom.

I don't know how my rec. compares to his as far as power, but I agree with what he is saying about the value of more headroom.

You gained maybe 2 dB headroom with the XPA5 over the avr... with 98db sensitive speakers I doubt you're even getting close to using the additiional headroom. Just how loud do you listen?

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post #2000 of 2048 Old 05-19-2014, 05:22 AM
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New to the world of Emotiva amps and any advise here would be greatly appreciated.

 

I'd like to know if the XPA-5 pairs well with the Kef LS50 in terms of neutrality, detail and clarity? Does anyone have any experience with this paring?

 

Would the XPA-5 (Gen 2) be a good choice for the LS50s for both music and movie purposes?

 

thanks in advance :)

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post #2001 of 2048 Old 05-19-2014, 08:51 PM
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Emotiva still offers the 30 day money back guarantee. You can try in home and if your not satisfied, they accept returns. Not sure if that covers shipping (ouch) What are you currently using for power? Those Kefs are only 85db. I bet they would love the extra power. Are you running blades for your fronts. biggrin.gif

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post #2002 of 2048 Old 05-19-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarknightDK View Post

New to the world of Emotiva amps and any advise here would be greatly appreciated.

I'd like to know if the XPA-5 pairs well with the Kef LS50 in terms of neutrality, detail and clarity? Does anyone have any experience with this paring?

Would the XPA-5 (Gen 2) be a good choice for the LS50s for both music and movie purposes?

thanks in advance smile.gif

They bench test well, so I find it hard to believe they interact oddly with any conventional speakers. The Kef's are monitors of a normal design right?

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post #2003 of 2048 Old 05-19-2014, 10:30 PM
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They should make a cheap, accurate and fast meter you can put between the output and speaker. One which can show the peak output every second. People would then know how much peak power is present at the output terminals.

Probably lower than people think

My Crown XLS has primitive metering and I never see it come close to clipping.

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post #2004 of 2048 Old 05-20-2014, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post

Emotiva still offers the 30 day money back guarantee. You can try in home and if your not satisfied, they accept returns. Not sure if that covers shipping (ouch) What are you currently using for power? Those Kefs are only 85db. I bet they would love the extra power. Are you running blades for your fronts. biggrin.gif

 

Coming from Asia, shipping cost is already quite costly. If I had to ship it back, I might as well keep the amp. ;) Hence, I will have to rely on user's impressions before I make a decision.

 

If I was using the blades for fronts, I wouldn't be considering Emotiva amps now would I?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post


They bench test well, so I find it hard to believe they interact oddly with any conventional speakers. The Kef's are monitors of a normal design right?

 

Yep I would suppose so..only slightly inefficient. 

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post #2005 of 2048 Old 05-20-2014, 05:05 PM
 
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With your stated amp power on tap, and the listening levels you mentioned, how could you be anywhere remotely close to clipping? Just what speakers do you use?

 

 

   my speaker manufacture even recommends over amping your speakers for the best in sound quality....  right in the manual... 

 

   in 2 channel stereo when a good tune comes on I can crank it right up sometimes... I love to feel the music from time to time...

 

    my listen room is very well treated and the sound is awesome...   the difference with or without amps versus the avr is night and day...

 

    cheers

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post #2006 of 2048 Old 05-20-2014, 05:17 PM
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Why wouldn't you consider an Emotiva Amp with Kef Blades? Are you assuming that a $20-$30K speaker requires a more expensive amp? I thought Emotiva was supposed to be as good as any amp costing 5 times as much. That puts it up there with Parasound, Classe, McIntosh, Krell, etc. Unless its all B.S.
I have a friend using an Emotiva amp with his Wilson Sasha's. I'n not saying its the best or worse choice but it "his" choice.

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post #2007 of 2048 Old 05-20-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cableguy301 View Post


   my speaker manufacture even recommends over amping your speakers for the best in sound quality....  right in the manual... 

   in 2 channel stereo when a good tune comes on I can crank it right up sometimes... I love to feel the music from time to time...

    my listen room is very well treated and the sound is awesome...   the difference with or without amps versus the avr is night and day...

    cheers

What speakers are they?

ps You've toned down your description from "way way better night and day" to just "night and day"....reality slowly coming into focus?

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post #2008 of 2048 Old 05-20-2014, 08:39 PM
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What speakers are they?

ps You've toned down your description from "way way better night and day" to just "night and day"....reality slowly coming into focus?

FYI-Paradigm Studio 100's-if memory serves me correctly.
They love "da power"...wink.gif
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post #2009 of 2048 Old 06-07-2014, 10:09 AM
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I'm about to purchase a XPA-5 to pair with my Onkyo NR1010 and it will be powering my front three speakers (saving other channels for heights ) and the Onkyo will power the surrounds and back surrounds. How should I go about matching the gains or will Audyssey correct that for me?

fdsfds
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post #2010 of 2048 Old 06-07-2014, 10:51 AM
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I'm about to purchase a XPA-5 to pair with my Onkyo NR1010 and it will be powering my front three speakers (saving other channels for heights ) and the Onkyo will power the surrounds and back surrounds. How should I go about matching the gains or will Audyssey correct that for me?
I use a XPA-5 G2 with a Onkyo 5010
Adding the Emotiva does not change how the levels of individual channels are adjusted
You can still use the Onkyo menu and adjust levels manually or use Audyssey Auto calibration
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Emotiva Xpa 5 5 Channel Power Amplifier

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