Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 76 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2251 of 2264 Old 05-09-2015, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Well, the first thing I would start doing is to systematically troubleshoot the cause.

1. Remove all cables except power and turn on the amp. Does is still exhibit the same problem? If so, it may be internal. If not, it may be an issue with one of the connected devices or interconnects.

2. If it stays on with nothing connected start connecting one cable back into the amp at a time and test until the problem resurfaces. Once the problem resurfaces, remove all other cables except for the last thing you plugged in that reintroduced the problem. Test again. If the problem persists that is the culprit. Troubleshooting further will depend on what connected device is causing the issue.
a. First thing would be to replace the interconnect causing the issue.
b. Move the cable to another input/output on the amp.
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Originally Posted by mogrub View Post
+1 on duc ^

Thx guys, I'll do the basics 101 remove everything except the power cord, turn on, and see what's up, then add the 12v trigger, let that power it up, then the R, C, L individual each and see cause<>effect that way.

Thing is, it worked perfect for 2 plus solid years and then this happened, I did NOTHING to change my set-up at all.
As Engineer first thing I always think about is "what changed that caused this effect" ... nothing cable wise ...

As a matter of fact, 3 weeks ago I had a fellow AVS member Tim ( The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread)over as he was in town and it did it during our demo time .
I un-plugged the 12v trigger thinking that was sending false signals to the XPA-3 and still did it.

What I was wondering if there was existing know issue, like a blown capacitor that was causing this in a specific circuit.

Busy today, 3 kids in 2 soccer tournaments, so maybe later tonight will do some root cause analysis and post back here.

Last edited by mtbdudex; 05-09-2015 at 09:27 AM.
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post #2252 of 2264 Old 05-09-2015, 12:35 PM
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A while back one of my amps kept going into protection and nothing had changed, or so I thought. Turns out my son had stepped on a cable setting up (or pulling out, I forget) his PS3 and the loose connection was the problem. Sometimes you have to go back to basics, assume nothing, and just go through the checklist.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2253 of 2264 Old 05-09-2015, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Thx guys, I'll do the basics 101 remove everything except the power cord, turn on, and see what's up ... I was wondering if there was existing known issue, like a blown capacitor ... busy today, 3 kids in 2 soccer tournaments, so maybe later tonight will do some root cause analysis and post back here.
No known issue produces your described issue AFAIK. That you can ultimately tease performance out of your XPA makes me think you will discover a non-internal cause. What kind of connections do you use for your speaker wires? The last poster shares a great reminder about the importance of clean, solid fits. Hope the kids' soccer games went well. ⚽️
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post #2254 of 2264 Old 05-14-2015, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
OH DEAR LOL 27W a channel???

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench

"I heard it will make no difference with my AVR power and speakers."

27W is pretty poor, so your Emotiva will be upgrade. Actually Klipsch have been found to be less efficient than stated specifications.
I have Denon x4100w (125w) running all 7 channels. Mains are Goldenear Triton 5 and SuperCenter XL. I think towers are 90db.

Do you guys think XPA5 would improve SQ?
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post #2255 of 2264 Old 05-14-2015, 05:43 PM
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Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread

I use 14/4 in wall wire for each speaker, so effectively 11 gage wire. RCA good quality interconnects pre out to in for signal

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Unplugged everything, shut it all off, turned just the emotiva on, it did not power off after 20 minutes.

I then found out the Denon 4520 had zone 4 on, who knows how long.

So, I connected all speaker wires and interconnects , turned on everything, it's been problem free 3 days now......

Can't explain it except the zone 4 somehow triggered a false 12v signal trigger to turn off the emotiva?
I'm grasping at straws but now it works fine


Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP
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post #2256 of 2264 Old 05-14-2015, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I have Denon x4100w (125w) running all 7 channels. Mains are Goldenear Triton 5 and SuperCenter XL. I think towers are 90db.

Do you guys think XPA5 would improve SQ?
DaveyMac,

The Denon X4100w spec is for 2 channel "solid" stereo mode only and into 8 ohms nominal load. Once you go to multi-channel operation, that power figure no longer holds true.

Once you try running all channels, the maximum power per channel will drop to around 80W (this is a guess). I can't easily find bench tests to confirm 5-channel and 7-channel numbers for the X4100W. Perhaps someone on this thread can. Edit: Found the bench tests for an older Denon model that has the same 2 channel power amp rating as the X4100W at secrets of home theater site here: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

The main question is the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) that you're currently achieving with the X4100W and the speakers, is it sufficient to reach reference level? It will depend a lot on your room, where the speakers are placed relative to the room boundaries, the speaker sensitivity, the number of speakers and distance between the Main Listening Position (MLP) and the speakers.

I use the following web app to help determine if 105 dB peak can be achieved at the MLP with your current speaker setup and with your Denon X4100W: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

If you find out that power is insufficient, then look at external amps. The XPA-5 is one such option for your front sound stage which will consume the most amount of power - particularly the front left, center and front right channels.

Note that the X4100W has some limitations on the number of channels it can process - a maximum of 9. It also has limitations if you want to go with four ceiling speakers - it needs an additional 2 channel external amp for this.

Edit: Regarding your question of sound quality improvement, it's difficult to say. But a clean signal from the amp to your speakers is needed to provide good sound reproduction. If there is increased distortion of the signal out of the amp due to higher load demands, it will generally degrade the sound quality.

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Last edited by steveting99; 05-15-2015 at 01:00 AM. Reason: typo and additional text for clarity.
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post #2257 of 2264 Old 05-15-2015, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
{ABOVE}
Thanks a lot for the detailed response speakers are within 10 feet of MLP, so it hits reference no problem. I'll report back what happens with SQ.
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post #2258 of 2264 Unread Yesterday, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
The XPA=5 truly is a well-built machine!

I grabbed this quote from the first page of quotes on this thread. Based on reading alone, I would agree with BrolicBeast.


I am within a month of completing a refit of my audio system, and I am going to have a place for an additional amp. I keep reading the specs on the XPA-5; I admit I do not understand the numbers.


Number of channels: 5
Topology: fully discrete, highly optimized dual differential, high current, short signal path Class A/B with premium components throughout
Power output (all channels driven):
300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.05% THD)Rated power bandwidth: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +/- .075 dB
Broadband Frequency response: 5 Hz to 100 kHz, +0 -2dB
Amplifier gain: 29 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio:
1 watt: > 95 dB
Full power: > 119 dBInput impedance:
unbalanced: 23.5 kohms
balanced: 33 kohmsPower supply: 1,200VA toroidal transformer with 60,000uF storage capacitance
Size:
unboxed: 17” wide x 7 3/4” high x 19” deep
boxed: 23 1/2" wide x 12" high x 24 3/4" deepWeight: 70.4 lbs (81.5 lbs boxed)


I get that it is a five channel amp. I don't know what fully discrete, highly optimized dual differential, high current, short signal path means.


I don't know what these numbers mean:


Rated power bandwidth: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +/- .075 dB
Broadband Frequency response: 5 Hz to 100 kHz, +0 -2dB
Amplifier gain: 29 dB
Signal to Noise Ratio:
1 watt: > 95 dB
Full power: > 119 dBInput impedance:
unbalanced: 23.5 kohms
balanced: 33 kohms

1,200VA toroidal transformer with 60,000uF storage capacitance


I know what a toroidal transformer is; I do not know what 60,000uF storage capacitance means.


Any thoughts?
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post #2259 of 2264 Unread Yesterday, 07:39 AM
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^Alanlee,

What are the speakers you intend to drive with the XPA-5? Emotiva has given test reports for both 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads.

Depending on what type of speaker you've got, it's sensitivity, the number of speakers, distance between speaker to Main Listening Position (MLP), the room characteristics and how loud you want to go, the XPA-5 may or may not do what you want. So there are a lot of factors that go into checking for amp power.

I use the following web app to help with the calculating power numbers: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Play around with it in 2-channel "solid" stereo setup and see how much power you need to reach 105dB peak at the MLP.
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post #2260 of 2264 Unread Yesterday, 08:50 AM
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Does anyone know the true sensitivity to drive the first gen XPA5 and XPA3 to full power? Does it matter if the load on the outputs is 4 or 8 ohm? If so is it in relation to the 2.83v=1w into 8ohm and 2.0v for 4ohm formula?
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post #2261 of 2264 Unread Yesterday, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^Alanlee,

What are the speakers you intend to drive with the XPA-5? Emotiva has given test reports for both 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads.

Depending on what type of speaker you've got, it's sensitivity, the number of speakers, distance between speaker to Main Listening Position (MLP), the room characteristics and how loud you want to go, the XPA-5 may or may not do what you want. So there are a lot of factors that go into checking for amp power.

I use the following web app to help with the calculating power numbers: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Play around with it in 2-channel "solid" stereo setup and see how much power you need to reach 105dB peak at the MLP.

Thanks for your response. Please check out post #2243 for the results of that calculation.
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post #2262 of 2264 Unread Today, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
Does anyone know the true sensitivity to drive the first gen XPA5 and XPA3 to full power? Does it matter if the load on the outputs is 4 or 8 ohm? If so is it in relation to the 2.83v=1w into 8ohm and 2.0v for 4ohm formula?
Coolrda, I couldn't find any testing/data for the original XPA-5 or XPX-3, so I looked back at these measurements of the original XPA-2, which will be very similar (except for output power): Audioholics | Emotiva XPA-2 Measurements & Analysis
Quote:
The XPA-2 reached its full power with only 1.2Vrms.

Input sensitivity is commonly referenced to full power into 8Ω, but let's check...

The original XPA's all had an amplifier gain of 32dB IIRC. So we can calculate the output voltage: 1.2Vrms input + 32dB of amplifier gain = 47.8Vrms output. Into 8Ω, 47.8Vrms draws 6.0A (V/R) and generates 286W (VxI). This 286W figure gels quite well with Audioholic's measured single channel full bandwidth output of 312W (into 8Ω) for the XPA-2, as 312W equates to 50.0Vrms output and therefore 32.4dB of gain on a 1.2Vrms input.

Now, for the original XPA-5 or XPA-3 we can make an assumption and work backwards to an input sensitivity. To be conservative (err on the high side), let's assume that the XPA-5 XPA-3's single channel output exceeds the rated power (200WPC) by a similar ratio to the XPA-2 (250:312). This gives an estimated single channel output of into 8Ω of 250W and thus equates to 44.7Vrms output. So then, 44.7Vrms output - 32dB of amplifier gain = 1.1Vrms input sensitivity for the the XPA-5 and XPA-3.

Perhaps not the "true" input sensitivity, but that ^ is a long way of saying I believe it won't be any higher than 1.1Vrms.

Hope that helps.

PS: @Alanlee a read of the Audioholics review may assist in understanding some of amplifier specs you've enquired about.
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post #2263 of 2264 Unread Today, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
Thanks for your response. Please check out post #2243 for the results of that calculation.
Alan,

So you did! The max power you need to reach reference is less than 100W per channel into 8 ohms and the XPA-5 has more than double (+3dB) spare capacity for your Klipsch speakers.

The Audioholics article pointed by GIEGAR will help you understand some of the parameters mentioned in the specs of the XPA-5.

The XPA-5 are good amps. I've recently got a pair for the future Atmos setup being constructed at the new place.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8 (on order), HiMedia Q16 (on order).
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post #2264 of 2264 Unread Today, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Alan,

So you did! The max power you need to reach reference is less than 100W per channel into 8 ohms and the XPA-5 has more than double (+3dB) spare capacity for your Klipsch speakers.

The Audioholics article pointed by GIEGAR will help you understand some of the parameters mentioned in the specs of the XPA-5.

The XPA-5 are good amps. I've recently got a pair for the future Atmos setup being constructed at the new place.

I am happy to hear you are pleased with your amp. The XPA-5 is probably my next purchase. I will check out the audioholics article. Thanks
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