Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-28-2015, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
How's it goin' Alan. That was a good question and I think it shows your instincts are good. Since you first posted a few pages ago enquiring about an XPA-5 or XPR-5, I've also been puzzling over why you're considering another power amp.

In case I've missed anything, this is what I've gleened about your situation: All Klipsch system consisting a Cornwall/Heresy front end (98 and 97dB/1W/1m sensitivity) and KB surrounds (90dB/1W/1m). You're adding four ceiling speakers (93dB/1W/1m) for a 7(?).1.4 Atmos system, correct? You already have a couple of NAD power amps and a Sunfire power amp.

I can't recall your room size, or more particularly your listening distance (if you've given it). I don't think you've indicated a preferred absolute maximum volume level (relative dBMV), but you've been working out power required for theoretical reference level (calibrated 0dBMV) program peaks of 105dBSPL per channel at the listening position. Please correct me if I've got something wrong or missed anything above.

Alan, the payoff for genuinely high sensitivity speakers is that you don't need a lot of power to drive them to very loud levels. For instance, at 98dB/1W/1m each of your Cornwalls only need 14dBW or bursts of power of about 25W to produce 105dBSPL peaks at a 13ft listening position. If your KB surrounds are say about 8ft from the listening position, they'll theoretically require around 19dBW or 80W bursts from the amplifier to produce a peak of 105dBSPL.

Unless your room is very large, and therefore having long distances to all speakers, or your listening preferences are to levels above 0dBMV (ie. VERY LOUD), your power needs would appear to be well within the capabilities of any top-of-the-line/flagship AVR that you'd be considering that are able to process 11 channels of Atmos audio simultaneously.

What models are your current NAD and Sunfire amps Alan? Some flagship AVR's (like the Denon) have almost complete freedom in internal amp assignments, so you can utilise your current power amps on pretty much any channels you see fit, and use the AVR's internal amps for the balance.

Hello Giegar

What you have gleened from my posts is correct; no need for corrections. I am still pondering the AVR/Pre-pro dilemma, and I take your point that if I buy an AVR I may not need more Amps. I have always tried to buy more power than I need, run the amps on low power, and avoid too much heat.

My present thinking, and I admit it changes almost daily, is to run the ceiling amps off the AVR if I buy an AVR which means I would need to buy four more channels.

If I get a pre-pro, I will first attempt to run the ceiling amps with the Pioneer 49TXI.

Here is the gear I have:

Evolving Audio system is Pioneer vsx 32(processor) and pioneer 49txi might be power for ceiling,

Klipsch cornwall (front) powered by NADC275BEE,

two Klipsch heresy (center) powered byNAD C275BEE,

two Klipsch academies (surround)powered by sunfire symphonic reference (might be future wide power)

two Klipsch kg RS-7 (rear surroundpowered by vsx 32).

Two Klipsch KSW-15 sub-woofers,

two Klipsch kg 1.5 to be used as front wide

four Klipsch SA-2 now mounted onfront/middle and rear ceiling (wired for two more)

Oppo 103

Apple TV

Mac Mini

70inch Vizio 4K

Theater room is 24 X 14 X 12 (ceiling)with two open walls on rear and left side.

Distance from front speakers to listening post is 12 feet.

Ceilings are 12 Feet high.

Right now, Denon and Marantz seem like logical avenues for pre-pro or AVR.

Sorry if I gave you too much information, however, if you need more, I am here.
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Last edited by Alanlee; 06-28-2015 at 03:57 PM. Reason: misspelled word
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Alanlee View Post
Hello Giegar

What you have gleened from my posts is correct; no need for corrections. I am still pondering the AVR/Pre-pro dilemma, and I take your point that if I buy an AVR I may not need more Amps. I have always tried to buy more power than I need, run the amps on low power, and avoid too much heat.

My present thinking, and I admit it changes almost daily, is to run the ceiling amps off the AVR if I buy an AVR which means I would need to buy four more channels.

If I get a pre-pro, I will first attempt to run the ceiling amps with the Pioneer 49TXI.

Here is the gear I have:

Evolving Audio system is Pioneer vsx 32(processor) and pioneer 49txi might be power for ceiling,

Klipsch cornwall (front) powered by NADC275BEE,

two Klipsch heresy (center) powered byNAD C275BEE,

two Klipsch academies (surround)powered by sunfire symphonic reference (might be future wide power)

two Klipsch kg RS-7 (rear surroundpowered by vsx 32).

Two Klipsch KSW-15 sub-woofers,

two Klipsch kg 1.5 to be used as front wide

four Klipsch SA-2 now mounted onfront/middle and rear ceiling (wired for two more)

Oppo 103

Apple TV

Mac Mini

70inch Vizio 4K

Theater room is 24 X 14 X 12 (ceiling)with two open walls on rear and left side.

Distance from front speakers to listening post is 12 feet.

Ceilings are 12 Feet high.

Right now, Denon and Marantz seem like logical avenues for pre-pro or AVR.

Sorry if I gave you too much information, however, if you need more, I am here.
Hi Alanlee,

If you're going down the Denon/Marantz AVR route, one can do the custom amp assign so that some of 9 internal amps can be utilized for the ceiling speakers and the remaining floor speakers powered by the current pair of NAD C275BEE stereo amps and sunfire symphonic reference. The Pioneer VSX-32 only has stereo analogue inputs, so it can be used to drive another pair of speakers if you wish. I.e. front wides.

Might want to check with the Denon/Marantz experts of batpig and jdsmoothie to be sure on the particular model and the amp assign configuration.

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Old 06-28-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Hi Alanlee,

If you're going down the Denon/Marantz AVR route, one can do the custom amp assign so that some of 9 internal amps can be utilized for the ceiling speakers and the remaining floor speakers powered by the current pair of NAD C275BEE stereo amps and sunfire symphonic reference. The Pioneer VSX-32 only has stereo analogue inputs, so it can be used to drive another pair of speakers if you wish. I.e. front wides.

Might want to check with the Denon/Marantz experts of batpig and jdsmoothie to be sure on the particular model and the amp assign configuration.

Yes - good idea. I guess I am going to have to make a decision about whether I want an AVR or a Pre-pro. The reason I have not decided yet is because although I have looked at what is available and affordable, I am not quite finding what I want. I have talked to JD Smoothie on the phone, and I will also ask batpig for advice. Thank you
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:54 PM
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I haven't posted here in a while but I need some advice. I have a Denon X4000 running a 5.1 channel system inside and 2 channels in a separate zone outside.

I have B&W XT speakers inside and Klipsch 650 outdoor speakers outside.

My front stage feels a bit weak inside (front left, right and center) and I would like more volume outside, so I'm thinking about the XPA-5 to run those 5 channels (3 in, 2 out).

Thoughts?
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:15 PM
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I haven't posted here in a while but I need some advice. I have a Denon X4000 running a 5.1 channel system inside and 2 channels in a separate zone outside.

I have B&W XT speakers inside and Klipsch 650 outdoor speakers outside.

My front stage feels a bit weak inside (front left, right and center) and I would like more volume outside, so I'm thinking about the XPA-5 to run those 5 channels (3 in, 2 out).

Thoughts?
Hi rpr,

Here are the specs of B&W XT series of speakers:
  • XT8 floor standers. Sensitivity of 86dB/W/m. 8 ohms nominal with a minimum of 3.1 ohms. 40Hz to 22kHz (+/-3dB). Recommended power 50W to 150W.
  • XT2 book shelves. Sensitivity of 85dB/W/m. 8 ohms nominal with a minimum of 5.2 ohms. 55Hz to 22kHz (+/-3dB). Recommended power 30W to 100W.
  • XTC center speaker. Sensitivity of 87dB/W/m. 8 ohms nominal with a minimum of 4.0 ohms. 55Hz to 22kHz (+/-3dB). Recommended power 30W to 150W.

So the B&W XT series of speakers are on the low efficiency side and will require power to increase Sound Pressure Level (SPL) if one likes to listen to loud music or go to reference level for movies. It depends a lot on the speaker setup in the room, distance between speakers and Main Listening Position (MLP) and how loud one wants to go.

The other issue is the minimum impedance of the XT8 which dips a bit low and not sure at what frequency. If the dip in impedance happens to be at the bass region, then a lot of current is needed for clean bass reproduction. You can get around this by implementing bass management and selecting the appropriate crossover frequency.

Note that the Denon X4000 is not rated to drive 4 ohm loads to reference level. If you're sitting position (MLP) is kind of far away from the speakers, an external amp such as the Emotiva XPA-5 (Gen 2) makes sense to power the front sound stage as well as the surrounds.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 + Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:23 PM
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I am on my third XPA-5, the first one I sold cause I'm a dummy haha and the second one i sold as i went to powered speakers for a little while and now I'm back to passive speakers and another XPA-5 powering my 5 channels as I run a 5.1 and soon 5.2 system, the XPA-5 is a seriously great amplifier.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:34 PM
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I am on my third XPA-5, the first one I sold cause I'm a dummy haha and the second one i sold as i went to powered speakers for a little while and now I'm back to passive speakers and another XPA-5 powering my 5 channels as I run a 5.1 and soon 5.2 system, the XPA-5 is a seriously great amplifier.
It must be if you keep coming back!
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:09 AM
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It must be if you keep coming back!
Plus it's really one of the few that I can actually afford, I would try other gear but being of so called broke middle class status I have a limited selection of amps to choose from haha
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:55 AM
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Plus it's really one of the few that I can actually afford, I would try other gear but being of so called broke middle class status I have a limited selection of amps to choose from haha
Yeah, I cannot believe how cheap these amps are!
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:39 PM
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Steve: Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking with the low sensitivity of the B&W's. Only difference is that I don't think I need the extra power for the surrounds, I will using those two channels to drive my outdoor Klipsch speakers.

I do like my music loud, but clean, so I'm hoping the XPA-5 is the ticket.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rpr View Post
Steve: Thanks, that's pretty much what I was thinking with the low sensitivity of the B&W's. Only difference is that I don't think I need the extra power for the surrounds, I will using those two channels to drive my outdoor Klipsch speakers.

I do like my music loud, but clean, so I'm hoping the XPA-5 is the ticket.
rpr,

One idea is to use three of the five channels in the XPA-5 to drive the front sound stage (i.e. front left, center and front right speakers) as they would require the most power. The surrounds are generally closer to the MLP than the front sound stage and the Denon X4000 should be able to easily drive them. Generally the surrounds are used about 20% of time in most movie sound tracks, so they don't require a lot of power. With this setup, you would have ability to power both side and back surrounds with the X4000 if you ever decide to go with a full 7.1 setup. Just go into the custom amp assign on your Denon and configure the right settings.

The remain two channels of the XPA-5 can be utilized for Zone 2 pre-outs of the X4000 which can easily drive the Klispch outdoor speakers.

Marantz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 + Home Control remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP (2x4)+(10x10HD)+(DDRC-88A), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8, HiMedia Q16, LG 55EC9300.

Last edited by steveting99; 07-01-2015 at 08:00 PM. Reason: typo and additional text for clarity
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:56 PM
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Yes, that's the plan. Thanks.
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:47 PM
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So I was going to buy an XPA-3 today (off of Amazon), and of course they sold out of them via Amazon a few days ago. The only reason I have to buy the amp from Amazon is I have numerous gift cards for Amazon, otherwise I could not afford it.

Sucks...
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:41 PM
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So I was going to buy an XPA-3 today (off of Amazon), and of course they sold out of them via Amazon a few days ago. The only reason I have to buy the amp from Amazon is I have numerous gift cards for Amazon, otherwise I could not afford it.

Sucks...
Are you able to pick up an XPA-5 then ?, I always say it's better having the extra channels anyhow for things like mentioned above(zone speakers), or powering all five channels of a 5 speaker setup, for anyone worrying the XPA-5 easily drives my full five channels. The price per channel of the XPA-5 is one of the best deals in audio IMO

Processor - Sherbourn 7020C4, Speakers - Chane A5rx-c, A2rx-c, UAC-8.2 rears, Subs - Mach 5 IXL-18's, Amps - Emotiva XPA-5 Behringer EP4000 Sub amp, Sources - Mac Mini, Oppo 103, Display - Panasonic PCP60UT50

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Old 07-02-2015, 07:55 AM
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Are you able to pick up an XPA-5 then ?, I always say it's better having the extra channels anyhow for things like mentioned above(zone speakers), or powering all five channels of a 5 speaker setup, for anyone worrying the XPA-5 easily drives my full five channels. The price per channel of the XPA-5 is one of the best deals in audio IMO
I am in a similar situation with Amazon coupons. I checked yesterday on the XPA-5, and there is no listing for it on Amazon. There was a used XPA-3. I guess I waited too long. I will call Emotiva today and see if they plan to send more XPA-5s to Amazon. If not, I will order direct.
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:51 PM
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I just purchased an Emotiva XPA-3 today! I cannot wait to get it in the mail and set it up

Hopefully it can keep up with these bad boys:

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Old 07-15-2015, 09:00 AM
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I just purchased an Emotiva XPA-3 today! I cannot wait to get it in the mail and set it up Hopefully it can keep up with these bad boys ...
Always fun to get a 100 pound box in the mail! Hefty mail = fun stuff.

And yes, your new XPA-3 will light up those bad boys quite nicely. Post back once you're up and running.


Every once in a while, quite inexplicably, things actually go according to plan.
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Old 07-15-2015, 06:05 PM
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Silly question, is it better to use digital coax cables or standard RCA cables from the pre-outs to the amp, or does it matter? I'm thinking it doesn't matter, but am curious.

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Old 07-15-2015, 06:11 PM
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Tom - use XLR cables if you can. Otherwise, any high-quality RCA cable will do the trick.
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:40 PM
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+1.

Audio cables from a lot of companies actually use the same coax as digital/RF cables simply because it is cheaper in bulk and makes no difference to the audio signals if the cable can carry 100 kHz or 1 GHz.

It does not always work in reverse; some audio cables are not the right impedance and/or are too lossy to carry digital or RF (cable) signals.
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Old 07-15-2015, 11:52 PM
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Always fun to get a 100 pound box in the mail! Hefty mail = fun stuff.

And yes, your new XPA-3 will light up those bad boys quite nicely. Post back once you're up and running.
Will do!
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:48 PM
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Thanks! I purchased some RCA cables from monoprice. I do plan to change from my avr to a true pre/pro (after I purchase a second amp), and will make sure it has xlr connections.

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Old 07-21-2015, 04:35 AM
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Always fun to get a 100 pound box in the mail! Hefty mail = fun stuff.

And yes, your new XPA-3 will light up those bad boys quite nicely. Post back once you're up and running.
Dang it! I was supposed to get my XPA-3 in the mail today, but it is delayed (for who knows how long!) via UPS due to a train derailment!

My luck...

Haha.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:34 AM
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i have full set of Polk LSI series speakers LSI9 up front, LSIC Center , LSI7 rears and a Klipsch RW-12D, I had this setup for about 5 years, and everywhere i read it said the onkyo 708 wouldn't really push the LSI to their full capacity , so i saved up and got me an Emotiva XPA-5 ran the Odyssey on it , man i will have to say, im really disappointed in it, not really a noticeable different with extra $1000 power amp ... im sure im doing something wrong lol
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:40 AM
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The difference will be in the headroom at high volume. At sane, normal levels, it is VERY unlikely you will notice any perceivable (incremental value) sound quality difference. But you will see a difference in your electric bill.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:56 AM
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i have full set of Polk LSI series speakers LSI9 up front, LSIC Center , LSI7 rears and a Klipsch RW-12D, I had this setup for about 5 years, and everywhere i read it said the onkyo 708 wouldn't really push the LSI to their full capacity , so i saved up and got me an Emotiva XPA-5 ran the Odyssey on it , man i will have to say, im really disappointed in it, not really a noticeable different with extra $1000 power amp ... im sure im doing something wrong lol
You're probably not doing anything wrong. You're just being honest with what you experienced.

I'm sure if you were to post this result, those same people are going to tell you the amp is defective or that you are doing something wrong. That adding a big external amp should really let your speakers "open up" or "lift the veil"or any other number of colorful descriptions that have no scientific backing or basis.

If you were not at the limits of your AVR's internal amps then adding an external amp will not make an audible difference.
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Old 07-21-2015, 01:39 PM
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Red face Xpa-5

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Dang it! I was supposed to get my XPA-3 in the mail today, but it is delayed (for who knows how long!) via UPS due to a train derailment!

My luck...

Haha.
I received an XPA-5 in the mail a few days ago. I have it plugged into my system and have been listening to various sources to test it out. It's good! I don't hear a whole lot of difference between the XPA-5, my NAD 275's and my Sunfire, however, adding the Emotiva improved the system as a whole. I now have 9.2 amps and subwoofers. I am going to wait for the 2016 models to replace the AVR with another AVR or Pre-pro.

I feel a little like Meatloaf in Paradise by the Dashboard Lights. The 2015 models are saying "do you love me; will you love meforever?" I'm saying I'm not sure, I think I may have to wait another year. Ok, Meatloaf didn't say that. I did.
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tha_liks View Post
i have full set of Polk LSI series speakers LSI9 up front, LSIC Center , LSI7 rears and a Klipsch RW-12D, I had this setup for about 5 years, and everywhere i read it said the onkyo 708 wouldn't really push the LSI to their full capacity , so i saved up and got me an Emotiva XPA-5 ran the Odyssey on it , man i will have to say, im really disappointed in it, not really a noticeable different with extra $1000 power amp ... im sure im doing something wrong lol
Keep the XPA-5 in the loop for a week or two to get used to it, then plug the speakers back into the 708. Does the sound seem anemic, or missing "something".

Haha, DUC got there. I will add to the "open up" comment above to qualify my response/thought.
I have 3x Polk Rti A9 LCR(running in full range), with RTi A3 front uppers, and FXi 6 surrounds that used to run on an Onkyo TX NR 808, then ran with the 808 and XPA-3 in a 19' x20' shared space with the movie area being ~11.5'x19'. When I added the XPA-3, the lower/lower mid range became more audible and clear. I don't have a calibrated microphone to prove it, but it was clear as day difference. That receiver has since been retired with a bad HDMI board and replaced by an Denon 4520CL. However, I am more than willing to test it out if anyone in update NY has the receiver and a mic to do so. If there are no measureable results, I will eat my words and shut up in the future.

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Last edited by rfbrang; 07-21-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rfbrang View Post
Keep the XPA-5 in the loop for a week or two to get used to it, then plug the speakers back into the 708. Does the sound seem anemic, or missing "something".
I've had my XPR-5 for over a year hooked up to Salon2s, run full range at reference and they do not sound any different when I switch back to my Denon AVR. No anemic or something missing sounds. The only thing missing are the pretty dancing lights I see on my XPR-5. Maybe I've just gone tone deaf.

You are right though. Since he already had the amp, there's no harm in giving it a couple weeks. He just needs to make sure that he's level matched as closely as possible when making the comparison.

Last edited by duc135; 07-21-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 07-21-2015, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
I've had my XPR-5 for over a year hooked up to Salon2s, run full range at reference and they do not sound any different when I switch back to my Denon AVR. No anemic or something missing sounds. The only thing missing are the pretty dancing lights I see on my XPR-5. Maybe I've just gone tone deaf.

You are right though. Since he already had the amp, there's no harm in giving it a couple weeks. He just needs to make sure that he's level matched as closely as possible when making the comparison.
Sorry, I updated my post. Just trying to help is all, I have not been able to delve into the world of waterfall graphs and tangible results yet. Next theatre...

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