Official Emotiva XPA-5 Owners Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 2057 Old 03-01-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post

Gents. There I was listening to PentaTone Classic's "Paganini: Violin Concertos Nos. 1 & 4 - Henryk Szeryng" SACD on my Oppo 95 that is connected via multichannel RCA unbalanced connections first to an Emo UMC-1 then via Silver Serpent interconnects to the XPA-5, when my attention was suddenly drawn to the appearance of an audible hum emanating from a right rear Polk T90e surround speaker.

I walked the room and also heard it coming from the left surround speaker and even more faintly from two front speakers. Through the process of elimination, I narrowed the source down to the XPA-5. I powered it off then on. Still I could hear the hum. After checking the connections and turning off ceiling fans and other electrical appliances on the same circuit, powering it all off then back on, still I could hear the hum. Finally, I flipped off then on the XPA-5's master power switch and voila, hum was gone. Though I'm not flipping out, I'm a bit concerned about why this happened. Should I worry or write it off as some quirky house current phenomena?

Edit: The XPA-5 is about 6 months old and used only by me for hi-res music listening and an occasional BD flick and then only around 5 or 6 times a week.

Call/email Emotiva. Sounds like the power supply is going bad. It could also be one channel going bad and dragging all down with it. Either way, sounds like a repair trip.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #212 of 2057 Old 03-04-2012, 04:43 PM
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when running a xpa 5 with only three channels used, Im assuming it pushes more power to those channels? Could this be the reason Audyssey xt32 is cutting my mains to -12dbs?
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post #213 of 2057 Old 03-04-2012, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

when running a xpa 5 with only three channels used, Im assuming it pushes more power to those channels? Could this be the reason Audyssey xt32 is cutting my mains to -12dbs?

I think it would be more accurate to say that the amo may be able to provide more power to 3 channels than 5 channels.

But the gain should be the same AFAIK, so I am not sure that would affect calibration.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #214 of 2057 Old 03-05-2012, 11:33 AM
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The Emotiva has higher gain than a lot of other amps. It does not matter how many channels you are using, the gain per channel is the same as Michael says. If -12 dB is the limit of your trim settings, you may want to invest in a set of RCA line-level attenuators to get back in Audyssey's trim range.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #215 of 2057 Old 03-05-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The Emotiva has higher gain than a lot of other amps. It does not matter how many channels you are using, the gain per channel is the same as Michael says. If -12 dB is the limit of your trim settings, you may want to invest in a set of RCA line-level attenuators to get back in Audyssey's trim range.

Never used them. I understand their function, but do they alter the sound or dynamics at all? Clarity?
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post #216 of 2057 Old 03-05-2012, 08:56 PM
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Not to my ears, but YMMV. They are normally a simple resistor divider.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #217 of 2057 Old 03-05-2012, 11:39 PM
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given my price range and the positive reviews, i think i am going to go with the XPA series for my home theater to power a L/C/R JTR Triple 12's and 2 pairs of JTR Slanted 8's for surrounds...

what is my best option to drive them? i was thinking the denon 4311, but am now considering perhaps going separates and getting a more basic receiver like the denon 3312, or since i likely won't be ready to install equipment until the summer, perhaps a xx13 model. of course if i save money on the receiver, it would make sense to drive them with amps. i was thinking an xpa-3 to drive the L/C/R and then a pair of xpa-2's to drive each pair of surrounds. however, this seems like overkill for the surrounds and not enough juice to the main soundstage.

so what's the best combination of amps in a 7.1 setup? 3x xpa-1's to drive each of the fronts and then an xpa-5 to drive the 4 rears (i guess leaving 1 channel empty?) if i were to go this way and spend 4k on separates, would i be better off just upgrading to a different product line rather than having 3 different xpa-1's powering the fronts? i haven't really done research on higher end amps than these so i don't even really know what my options are.

i just want to make sure i'm spending the money where it matters the most... which is always going to be the fronts.
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post #218 of 2057 Old 03-06-2012, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post

so what's the best combination of amps in a 7.1 setup? 3x xpa-1's to drive each of the fronts and then an xpa-5 to drive the 4 rears (i guess leaving 1 channel empty?) if i were to go this way and spend 4k on separates, would i be better off just upgrading to a different product line rather than having 3 different xpa-1's powering the fronts? i haven't really done research on higher end amps than these so i don't even really know what my options are.

i just want to make sure i'm spending the money where it matters the most... which is always going to be the fronts.

I just wonder if what your proposing is overkill. You could use an XPA-3 for the front three and a XPA-5 for the surrounds.
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post #219 of 2057 Old 03-06-2012, 11:55 AM
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I would buy the 4311 then see if you need external amps...

I have inefficient 4-ohm speakers and am using an XPA-2 for the L/R and XPA-5 for the center, surrounds, and backs. I got the amps when I had a Sony AVR; if I had my newer Pioneer when I set up the speakers I doubt I would have the amps.

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post #220 of 2057 Old 03-06-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I would buy the 4311 then see if you need external amps...

I have inefficient 4-ohm speakers and am using an XPA-2 for the L/R and XPA-5 for the center, surrounds, and backs. I got the amps when I had a Sony AVR; if I had my newer Pioneer when I set up the speakers I doubt I would have the amps.

Is there really any way of knowing if I need the external amps? I'm sure it will sound great with just the 4311, but without hearing it side by side with the amps in place, I won't really know. I guess I will buy some amps and do some A/B testing.

Your solution of using an XPA-2 and XPA-5 seems like it would be a very cost effective way to get power to where I need to get it. My only question is will I see a problem using different powered amps for the L/R compared to the center channel. I've always gone out of my way to keep all 3 of those channels identical for a seamless soundstage. But I gather from what you are saying it doesn't really matter if I've got 300W to the L/R and 200W to the center?
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post #221 of 2057 Old 03-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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^^^

yes...

if it does not clip or go into protection*, you do not need the external amps...

it's really rather simple...

* and with the jtr's, you'd be hard pressed to do that, short of being in an auditorium, and if you did, the emos in question wouldn't help... you would need some significant horsepower to make any meaningful difference ...

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post #222 of 2057 Old 03-06-2012, 04:38 PM
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What Chris said.

Check out a sound calculator and see what you need for say 100 to 105 dB peaks. Here's one: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

To get 3 dB additional headroom, you need twice the power. Whilst you can easily pick out maybe 1 dB switching back and forth, in fact 3 dB is about what most people need for it to "sound just a little bit louder". 10 dB is twice as loud and takes ten times the power. Diminishing returns come quickly for most systems...

The Denon is what, 140 W/ch? The Emotiva XPA-2 takes you to 300 W (into 8 ohms), about 3 dB increase. You are not talking a huge increase in volume or headroom, and most systems are using only a few watts most of the time. The amps are a great value, and I love my stable of them, but I am by far the exception than the rule and as I have said before if had I my Pioneer (wrote Denon and had to backspace, durn you Chris!!!) before my amps I would probably have a lot more music and movies and far fewer amps in my console.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #223 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:13 AM
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So essentially what I'm gathering is that if I'm not planning on listening at earsplitting volumes, then something like a high end Denon/Onkyo will be plenty of power with high quality JTR speakers?
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post #224 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post

So essentially what I'm gathering is that if I'm not planning on listening at earsplitting volumes, then something like a high end Denon/Onkyo will be plenty of power with high quality JTR speakers?

As near as I could surmise, the JTR speakers have a high sensitivity/efficiency so any high end Denon or Onkyo will be louder than you would need in any thing but large rooms and perhaps even then. I'm all for more amp power when it comes to low and medium sensitivity speakers as I have but those with high sensitivity speakers just don't need it.
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post #225 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:30 AM
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Mmmm. I'm not going to disagree but having a quality amp(emo or outlaw bang for buck) wont hurt.

If you are just trying to get away with a avr solution I think you will be fine.
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post #226 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:39 AM
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@steveklein...

yes...

fwiw, the "quality" of the speaker really isn't germane (not that the jtr's aren't "quality" speakers)... there's three things that matter...

- speaker efficiency... i.e. how much spl does it produce given x amount of watts... given the jt's very high sensitivity, and your comments on listening level*, it's unlikely you will ever go beyond the first watt....

- speaker impedance... i.e. how "difficult" a load does the speaker present to the amplifier... this can get a bit grey, as impedance is given as a "nominal" spec, and in reality, it varies quite wildy for many speakers across the frequency band... the takeaway from that is that "lower" number ohm speakers are more "difficult" to drive, and when asking for a lot of watts, can cause the power supply in many avr's to peter out... imo, the "4 ohm impedance fear" that has been drilled into many is a bit ill-founded, as most do not use anywhere near the power they think they do (see paragraph 1), and even a reasonably wimpy power supply is 4 ohm stable when only a few watts are needed... that being said, couple a low efficiency difficult load with a user who likes to turn the knob to 11, and most avr's will cry uncle very quickly (note that this case is rather uncommon)... the jtr's present an "easy" load, so this is not a "concern"...

- how far away are you, and how much room gain do you get...

* just an imo... given your stated listening volume (and i'm guessing not huge room size) if you do not already have the triple 12's, you might consider something else...

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post #227 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Mmmm. I'm not going to disagree but having a quality amp(emo or outlaw bang for buck) wont hurt.

If you are just trying to get away with a avr solution I think you will be fine.

and exactly how would it "help"? sure it won't hurt... but that's not the point...

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post #228 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Mmmm. I'm not going to disagree but having a quality amp(emo or outlaw bang for buck) wont hurt.

If you are just trying to get away with a avr solution I think you will be fine.

True. You should know too! Any problems with noise and your high sensitivity speakers? I've never really understood that problem that some have with high sensitivity speakers and Emo's. What I experienced was that the sound seemed to open up with more power (from Emotiva amps) which I attribute to my low sensitivity speakers having been previously under powered. One major disclaimer is that I went to active crossovers when I got the Emotiva's so the comparison is complicated if not impossible.
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post #229 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post


True. You should know too! Any problems with noise and your high sensitivity speakers? I've never really understood that problem that some have with high sensitivity speakers and Emo's. What I experienced was that the sound seemed to open up with more power (from Emotiva amps) which I attribute to my low sensitivity speakers having been previously under powered. One major disclaimer is that I went to active crossovers when I got the Emotiva's so the comparison is complicated if not impossible.

No problems with my speakers. I actually thought a out going back to just a avr solution. Lol
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post #230 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


and exactly how would it "help"? sure it won't hurt... but that's not the point...

I was referring to Theresa not you, thanks.
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post #231 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 09:57 AM
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No intention to impugn your speakers. It's just there are some with high sensitivity speakers and Emo amps who complain of excess noise, supposedly because of the high gain of Emo amps. I just don't understand why they'd have such a problem without a noisy component which the Emo amps are not.
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post #232 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

No intention to impugn your speakers. It's just there are some with high sensitivity speakers and Emo amps who complain of excess noise, supposedly because of the high gain of Emo amps. I just don't understand why they'd have such a problem without a noisy component which the Emo amps are not.

You don't think the emo amps have buzz or hum problems? There is a huge thread over at the lounge a out it.
Maybe you weren't one of the ones. I know I had a similar issue with a xpa3 and klipsch speakers at my old house.
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post #233 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

You don't think the emo amps have buzz or hum problems? There is a huge thread over at the lounge a out it.
Maybe you weren't one of the ones. I know I had a similar issue with a xpa3 and klipsch speakers at my old house.

Nope, no buzz or hum with my UPA-5, XPA-3, or UPA-2. I guess I'm luckier than I thought. I have a broken rca input on the UPA-5 but I no longer use that channel.
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post #234 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post


Nope, no buzz or hum with my UPA-5, XPA-3, or UPA-2. I guess I'm luckier than I thought. I have a broken rca input on the UPA-5 but I no longer use that channel.

Yep. I think you are. You get ready to sell that ups 5, let me know.
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post #235 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:41 AM
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I have the XPA5-JTR combo and no noise either. My reason for the XPA was that my previous receiver was not suited for 4 ohm speakers. If I had my 4311 at the time I got the speakers I probably wouldn't have bothered with the additional amp.
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post #236 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:53 AM
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Yes, the 4311 is quite a bargain and great performing from all I've heard. I cannot imagine buying an amp/avr that couldn't handle 4 ohms well.
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post #237 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

I was referring to Theresa not you, thanks.

what's the matter? can't answer the question?

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post #238 of 2057 Old 03-10-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


what's the matter? can't answer the question?

I was discussing Theresa's comment not yours. Why would you feel the need to pull me into your conversation?

I was discussing the possibility of needing or not needing a external amp with sensitive speakers. In my experiences which only consist of a couple Emotiva amps and a couple avrs, I found that a external amp adds headroom, a more quality sound etc... With my klipsch, they opened up a little more. Now that I have the Ed speakers which are more sensitive which was made clear with audyssey, that I think a avr solution would work fine.

A external amp like I said couldn't hurt since the a avr will only do so much as far as power ratings with all channels driven.
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post #239 of 2057 Old 03-19-2012, 10:41 AM
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Aprils issue rates the XPA-5 as a "recommended component" amplifier (p. 93)

Great jobb Emotiva! Your simply getting the credit you deserve.

Edit: ...and John Atkins measures the ERC-2 (p. 183). "The ERC-2s error correction/concealment was the best I have encountered in more than 20 years of testing CD players." - JA
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post #240 of 2057 Old 03-19-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

I found that a external amp adds headroom, a more quality sound etc... With my klipsch, they opened up a little more.

I totally agree with that, I have 2 XPA-5's on my 9.2 klipsche system and it made a huge difference with sound quality over my 4311Ci.

Klipsch RF82II Fronts & Wides
Klipsch RC64II Center
Klipsch RB61II Heights & Surrounds
2X Elemental design 15" subs W/ O-audio amps
Denon 4311ci
2X Emotiva XPA-5
Samsung D8000 64"
Denon 3313 UBD
Full GIK treatments

New theater under construction!
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