Pioneer vsx-1020 and vsx-1120 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 581 Old 04-28-2010, 06:18 AM
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Does the 1120 have anything equivalent to Audyssey's Dynamic Volume?

How does MCACC compare with MultiEQ (or is that a firestorm?)?
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post #272 of 581 Old 04-28-2010, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gabito View Post

Does the 1120 have anything equivalent to Audyssey's Dynamic Volume?

How does MCACC compare with MultiEQ (or is that a firestorm?)?

El Gabito,

I own a Marantz SR7002 which uses Audyssey, however I've heard good things about MCACC. I think you have to factor in all the features of the AVR when making a purchase decision unless you have some type of brand loyalty.


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post #273 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 05:50 AM
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Saw online that the 1020K was in stock at a few of the local Best Buys, so I ordered it for in-store pickup and just got the confirmation email that it's ready for pickup! Anyone else receive theirs yet?


No signature here...
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post #274 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarksonknight View Post

Saw online that the 1020K was in stock at a few of the local Best Buys, so I ordered it for in-store pickup and just got the confirmation email that it's ready for pickup! Anyone else receive theirs yet?

I look forward to your thoughts.


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post #275 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 08:03 AM
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Yeah got the Best Buy pick-up e-mail also cant wait to put this puppy though the test.
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post #276 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dspiz View Post

Yeah got the Best Buy pick-up e-mail also cant wait to put this puppy though the test.

curious how long-legged the 1020 really is with only a 2amp/245 watt draw
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post #277 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 12:21 PM
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Just checked and they appear to be available at most Best Buy's in Dallas area. Going to wait for the 1120 though and for some thorough feedback from people to ensure there aren't any major bugs.
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post #278 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 01:00 PM
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compiling a master listing of features and specs for 2010 receivers:
http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=327
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post #279 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 05:15 PM
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Just cancelled my order with PowersellerNYC. A few 1020's are available here in the 7 Cities at the Chesapeake and Virginia Beach stores. Just went and grabbed one at the Chesapeake store. They have one left. Virginia Beach has two, but when I called they said there weren't available for sale. I've had problems with that store before though. The people working there are idiots. Chesapeake had two on the shelf ready to go. They may not be out on the shelf at the Virginia Beach store which is probably why they claim they're not available for sale. I'm sure they would have to let them go if you order online and choose pick up though.
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post #280 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 05:41 PM
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believe me, not trying to troll but is it me or is $600 (w tax) a lot for a receiver that draws only 2 amps / 245 watts?

I am sure it sounds very good (like my 1019 and 919 did), but my old-fashioned power/weight=quality tendencies have me a bit skeptical of this unit's power beyond light to moderate tv watching. Spooked me they cut 105 watts of draw from the 1019 that only tested 34 watts with 5 channels driven.

any owners want to weight in?
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post #281 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

believe me, not trying to troll but is it me or is $600 (w tax) a lot for a receiver that draws only 2 amps / 245 watts?

I think it's you. What counts are the ratings of what is amplified at a given level of distortion -- the manufacturer supplies that information. The UL spec you see on the little plate on the back, it seems to me, is neither here nor there (unless, I suppose, you're contending it shows the manufacturer has lied about the receiver's performance).

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post #282 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I think it's you. What counts are the ratings of what is amplified at a given level of distortion -- the manufacturer supplies that information. The UL spec you see on the little plate on the back, it seems to me, is neither here nor there (unless, I suppose, you're contending it shows the manufacturer has lied about the receiver's performance).

no disagreement, but pioneer's rating of 110 watts is based upon only 1 channel driven. The 1019 had similar ratings, but only produced 34 watts with all channels driven: http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/...er/index4.html
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post #283 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

believe me, not trying to troll but is it me or is $600 (w tax) a lot for a receiver that draws only 2 amps / 245 watts?

I am sure it sounds very good (like my 1019 and 919 did), but my old-fashioned power/weight=quality tendencies have me a bit skeptical of this unit's power beyond light to moderate tv watching. Spooked me they cut 105 watts of draw from the 1019 that only tested 34 watts with 5 channels driven.

any owners want to weight in?

Look at the weight of the 1019...19lbs. The 1020 is a good 4lbs. heavier. One of Pioneer's themes is to improve power consumption each year. They've done this for the last few years if you look at the previous models. Each year the power supply had lower wattage, but is was only last year that the actual output of the receivers with all channel driven decreased. Pioneer is trying to increase efficiency and I think last year's models were inadvertently effected by this.

Previous models didn't experience this drop off. The 1018's power supply pulled less than the 1017 yet it didn't affect performance. This leads me to believe that they just didn't quite get it right last year. Onkyo had the same issue last year, but both companies have made changes for this year and this seems to be reflected by the increased weight of this year's receivers. Of course we won't know for sure until bench testing is done.
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post #284 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lojack1976 View Post

Look at the weight of the 1019...19lbs. The 1020 is a good 4lbs. heavier. One of Pioneer's themes is to improve power consumption each year. They've done this for the last few years if you look at the previous models. Each year the power supply had lower wattage, but is was only last year that the actual output of the receivers with all channel driven decreased. Pioneer is trying to increase efficiency and I think last year's models were inadvertently effected by this.

Previous models didn't experience this drop off. The 1018's power supply pulled less than the 1017 yet it didn't affect performance. This leads me to believe that they just didn't quite get it right last year. Onkyo had the same issue last year, but both companies have made changes for this year and this seems to be reflected by the increased weight of this year's receivers. Of course we won't know for sure until bench testing is done.

yeah, but if even it were 100% efficient, you still have the issue of 245/7. you end up at 35. Granted the power supply will be able to build up more current for short bursts of loud sound, but we're still starting out with a low number.

Please do not take this as a criticism of the 1020 - I have not tested one and for all i know it sounds awesome. I have an elite 21 in my main room that I love.
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post #285 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

no disagreement, but pioneer's rating of 110 watts is based upon only 1 channel driven. The 1019 had similar ratings, but only produced 34 watts with all channels driven ...

True. Pioneer also gives a rating of 80W/channel for the 1020, arrived at in a different way (over a wide frequency range) and with 2 channels driven. If the 1020 were to be measured with all channels driven, I'm sure we'd see a lower figure yet. There is nothing surprising in all this. So, uh, what's the point?

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post #286 of 581 Old 04-29-2010, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

True. Pioneer also gives a rating of 80W/channel for the 1020, arrived at in a different way (over a wide frequency range) and with 2 channels driven. If the 1020 were to be measured with all channels driven, I'm sure we'd see a lower figure yet. There is nothing surprising in all this. So, uh, what's the point?

I viewed the 1019 in a price/performance category similar to the onkyo 805. my concern is the drop in power consumption a la the 806.

Sounds like i might have to find a BestBuy with one and push it...
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post #287 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 07:28 AM
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I am surprised that most companies can still advertise an receiver as 110 watts X 7 when it can only be a max of 35 X 7. When it is in fact at 110 watts on one channels but happens to have 7. Has anyone had any hands on experience with these yet I know a few were waiting for a delivery date of monday. Just curious what the stats live up to?
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post #288 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 08:20 AM
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For all the posts asking if anyone has a unit yet, the best place to check would be the "Official" Pioneer VSX-1020-K owner's thread. I've posted a bunch of info in there and it sounds like many are just hooking units up and getting ready to post responses.
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post #289 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by biggme View Post

I am surprised that most companies can still advertise an receiver as 110 watts X 7 when it can only be a max of 35 X 7.

The only apparent point in measuring continuous output on all channels simultaneously is to come up with a low wattage. Because in use, you'd never be feeding continuous output to your receiver, and you'd never be playing music or a movie that has equal output to all 7 channels. It is just totally unrealistic. So why should the manufacturers give a rating that misrepresents their equipment in this way? To cater to a few audio enthusiasts who seem to have a very foggy idea about what a receiver does?

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post #290 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The only apparent point in measuring continuous output on all channels simultaneously is to come up with a low wattage. Because in use, you'd never be feeding continuous output to your receiver, and you'd never be playing music or a movie that has equal output to all 7 channels. It is just totally unrealistic. So why should the manufacturers give a rating that misrepresents their equipment in this way? To cater to a few audio enthusiasts who seem to have a very foggy idea about what a receiver does?

if you use all channel surround you might be using a number of speakers at high volume.

not all ces are deceptive on this issue; marantz to their credit generally releases power ratings that are lower than the actual power delivered with all five channels driven (ie SR5003).
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post #291 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The only apparent point in measuring continuous output on all channels simultaneously is to come up with a low wattage. Because in use, you'd never be feeding continuous output to your receiver, and you'd never be playing music or a movie that has equal output to all 7 channels. It is just totally unrealistic. So why should the manufacturers give a rating that misrepresents their equipment in this way? To cater to a few audio enthusiasts who seem to have a very foggy idea about what a receiver does?

All channel stereo usually drives all channels equally.

Aside from that in loud normal surround sound scenes while the surrounds might not be using as much power as the fronts, the fact is they're taking away from the power available to the fronts when they need it the most.
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post #292 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The only apparent point in measuring continuous output on all channels simultaneously is to come up with a low wattage. Because in use, you'd never be feeding continuous output to your receiver, and you'd never be playing music or a movie that has equal output to all 7 channels. It is just totally unrealistic. So why should the manufacturers give a rating that misrepresents their equipment in this way? To cater to a few audio enthusiasts who seem to have a very foggy idea about what a receiver does?

I disagree with this statement. Why buy any product that does not provide accurate information about its performance. Weight is still a valid metric for receiver performance. All of the reviews I have read prove this out. The lighter receivers with the same specs do not perform as well. You cannot continue to replace heavier power supply components with lighter parts and expect the same performance. Transistors, capacitors, and transformers have ratings and cannot simply be replaced with lower spec parts. If you need more proof then take a look at separate amplifiers. Some of the lower end units are heavier then some AVRs.

Also, you do not want to under power your speakers. In my experience, some speakers do not perform well without sufficient power.

I don't want to sound like a big THX advocate, but this is why I only buy THX certified receivers in this price range. The THX certification process requires manufacturers to meet strict performance metrics. These receivers are heavier and perform much better (ie, 1120). Because of this, I am replacing my 1015 THX certified with the equivalent 1120 receiver. There is a reason Pioneer dropped this certification from their top 10xx receivers. This allowed them to place lighter power supplies (less power) in these units. This is why i waited and did not buy the previous 1019 unit.
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post #293 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 03:50 PM
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Hi Experts-- I am hoping that you can guide me a bit. I have gotten lots of different input on the following issues but most of it has been short, cryptic, knee jerk conclusions without any thoughtful analysis or explanation. so i am hoping this forum will be different, given that so many of you seem to be thoughtful and good at well reasoned analyses of challenging issues. how is that for an intro??

First, my current system is a yamaha rxv-2095 powering a 5.2 system of M&K 4 ohm speakers:

1. Front Speakers = MK S100B -- 4 ohms & 50 to 200 Watts
2. Center Speaker = MK S125C -- 4 ohms & 50 to 200 Watts
3. Back Speaker = MK-95 -- 4 ohms & 50 to 200 Watts
4. Powered Subwoofer = MK 125 II
5. Powered Buttkicker system (under sofa) as a 2nd subwoofer
6. Panasonic BD 85 Blu Ray player
7. Sharp LCD (LC-60C52U)
8. The room is about 20' X 20' with 10' ceilings & i mostly use it for watching movies as low to moderate volumes.

I plan to get a new AVR with 1.4a hdmi for 3D. I am thinking of getting the pioneer vsx-1120k because (1) it has a decent upscaling capability for SD HDMI (i.e. regular quality TV from my cable box hdmi and (2) has preouts. Now for the questions:

QUESTION #1 -- I have gotten varying opinions about whether the 1120 has sufficeint power to do the M&K's justice. What do you guys think?

QUESTION #2 -- If i get a dedicated 5 channel power amp (eg emotiva xpa-5 with a rating of 350W/ch into the 5 channels at 4 ohms), would i be better off with this combination (1120 + emotiva amp) vs waiting for the the denon 4311 (and no separate amp)? The Denon should cost a little bit more than the combination above but have less power (at least on paper). Which would sound/look/be better?

QUESTION #3 -- i generally listen at low to moderate volumes so i am wondering if i even will hear the significant extra power from the emotiva amp (or denon upgrade) in the 4 ohm speakers that i have. In other words, is there a difference in sound produced by a relatively lower wattage power source (eg the pioneer 1120 on its own with its alleged 120 W/ch into 8 ohms) at low listening levels? i know that the emotiva (or denon) will let me play music louder w/o distortion but my question is whether massive power makes any difference in sound quality at LOW listening levels (and if so, why).

Thanks!!
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post #294 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 04:31 PM
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Just picked up a 1020 at Best Buy - 10% off coupons can be found and printed online - $495 after coupon.
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post #295 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 04:43 PM
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@movieslover...

to be honest, i think you might be pushing it a bit to drive your speakers with this avr... although since you do use a sub, it might work...

imo, in your case, the option of combining this avr + emo amp > denon avr... and that's coming from a person who believes that for 95% of users (conservatively), a "plain jane avr" is more than enough (regardless of whether it says 250w on the back or not... )...

now, if you were willing to consider a sc series avr, i also believe that would work well for you, and would be in the same range price-wise as this avr + emo amp... that would be what i would do in your situation... it will comfortably drive your speakers at your described listening levels, and the sc series "pre section" is exceptional (i have two )...

you'll get dissenting opinions on your last paragraph, but i'm a firm believer that a watt is a watt... if you only use one, it doesn't matter if there's 3 zillion in reserve or 10 in reserve...

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post #296 of 581 Old 04-30-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quick question, does anyone know whether or not any of this line of Pioneers, or any AVR announced for that matter, will support the new Ethernet over HDMI, I really think this feature will be great once supported by everything.
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post #297 of 581 Old 05-01-2010, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

... Because in use, you'd never be feeding continuous output to your receiver, and you'd never be playing music or a movie that has equal output to all 7 channels. It is just totally unrealistic.
...
To cater to a few audio enthusiasts who seem to have a very foggy idea about what a receiver does?

Disagree. Manufacturer can't just assume what I'm listening: they are selling 7channel AVR and are assuming customer will use it for stereo only?
The point is, specs are misleading! Let's take Pioneer 1019/919 for example (as taken from owner manual):

Rated power output
Front, Center, Surround, Surround back
105W per channel (20Hz to 20kHz, 8ohm, 0,09%)

-that's all!? Number "105W" is here only to impress, as we can only guess/assume power in real usage. For example, if AVR draws 290W from wall, only about 60% (174W) is used for audio power. For 5.1 system, that would be about 35W/ch continous power (all channels driven).
If we believe such (as above) specifications, without thinking further, then Pioneer 1019/919 and Yamaha 1065 seems to be almost equal in regard of power -which, of course, isn't true: there's a reason 1065 being more expensive.

Nothing wrong if 1019, which I own, only has 35W/ch (I knew that before buying). The point is, specs are not consistent between manufacurers and very often also between products of the same manufacturer. From Pioneer LX52 manual, for example:

Rated power (20Hz to 20kHz, 8ohm, 0,09%)
Front: 110W+110W
Center: 110W
Surround: 110W+110W
Surround back: 110W+110W

At first sight, according to official specifications, one would assume LX52 and 1019 are almost equal powerwise (difference being only 0.2dB) -which, again, isn't true.

Just my 2c,
Bogdan
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post #298 of 581 Old 05-01-2010, 04:42 AM
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Hello,

Up until now, I've only used a home cinema set - lately an xbox360 and ps3 were added and I'm looking into buying a receiver. I owned several pioneer devices and I have to say I like them pretty much (they don't break quickly in me experience).

Now I've got a question on receivers.

I own an old pioned ns-dv77 set with 5.1 speakers. I want to get a vsx-1020 or 1120, but (for the moment) I'd like to avoid buying new speakers and instead use the NS-DV77 set to output the sound.
Can I just connect a optical cable from the receiver to the old home cinema set, and then have all the sound playing via the old 5.1 set? (Just right now when I play a bluray on the ps3, the sound is played via the optical out on the ns-dv77 set)?

Thanks in Advance!
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post #299 of 581 Old 05-01-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboerdijk View Post

Can I just connect a optical cable from the receiver to the old home cinema set, and then have all the sound playing via the old 5.1 set?

No for the 1020, since it has no optical output. Probably yes for the 1120, since on the Amazon product page I see an optical output on the photo of the back panel. But I haven't yet seen a manual for the 1120, so I'm not sure. (You won't be getting much benefit from the 1120, using it this way.)

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post #300 of 581 Old 05-02-2010, 06:10 AM
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Got tired of waiting for Amazon to ship mine, so i canceled my order. Best Buy had one in stock, and I found a 10% off coupon here (http://twitlens.com/o/12683783024_bbc10.jpg) that more than made up for tax. Havent had a chance to hook it up yet, but probably tonight.
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