Pioneer vsx-1020 and vsx-1120 - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 581 Old 11-26-2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

In a 5.1 setup, the two surrounds need to be connected and located as sides, not rears. "Rears" are only added in a 7.1 configuration.

After switching the surrounds to the proper "side" outputs, re-run MCACC's auto-calibration.

To get music from all of your speakers at once, use the Neo6 or EXT STEREO surround modes.

Awe.....damn.
I would've NEVER guessed that one.
Thanks.
It's a 7.1 Receiver,
but I'm not going to be able to utilize it as such at this point in time.

From some reading,
Neo6 is basically a multichannel control correct?
I don't think it's called this in my manual, but as long as I'm on the right path
I think I know where my multichannel setting is, along with the EXTstereo.
Now I just have to figure out how to work them.

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #452 of 581 Old 11-27-2010, 03:02 PM
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I got everything hooked up right now.
The surround for movies is great, but it's not doing what I want for music playback.
It's using my rear speakers as it would for surround sound pretty much.
They are faint and dull.
I've tried every setting that I can possibly think of.
Neo6 Music, ProLogic Music, EXT STEREO....none of those play music in all 4 speakers at the same level.
I also made sure that all my channels were even as well for this.
Still...no help.
I switched terminals to Speaker B so that I could use the A/B selector to put them both ON, and they are still very low level.

Is there a way to give all 4 speakers full power for music playback?
That's really what I was hoping that this unit could do.
I listen to ALOT of music in comparison to watching TV and Movies.
If not, can you safely wire all 4 speakers into the front channels?
My initial thought would be no, but I really don't know.

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post #453 of 581 Old 11-27-2010, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

I got everything hooked up right now.
The surround for movies is great, but it's not doing what I want for music playback.
It's using my rear speakers as it would for surround sound pretty much.
They are faint and dull.
I've tried every setting that I can possibly think of.
Neo6 Music, ProLogic Music, EXT STEREO....none of those play music in all 4 speakers at the same level.
I also made sure that all my channels were even as well for this.
Still...no help.
I switched terminals to Speaker B so that I could use the A/B selector to put them both ON, and they are still very low level.

Is there a way to give all 4 speakers full power for music playback?
That's really what I was hoping that this unit could do.
I listen to ALOT of music in comparison to watching TV and Movies.
If not, can you safely wire all 4 speakers into the front channels?
My initial thought would be no, but I really don't know.

There has to be something not configured correctly.

On mine, EXT STEREO mode does exactly what you're trying to do.

Where do you have the crossover set on the receiver? Are you using 4.1, or 5.1? Are all the speakers set to "Small", or "Large"?
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post #454 of 581 Old 11-27-2010, 03:43 PM
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The crossover in the on screen menu is at 50.
Don't ask me why....someone on another forum told me to put it there.
I really don't understand how all of those things work.
All the speakers are set to large because I don't have a sub hooked up at this moment.
I also don't have the center hooked up yet either.
Those wont arrive until next week, but I'd like to learn how to fix this now if I could.

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post #455 of 581 Old 11-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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Tried all the crossover settings in there from 50-200.
None of them make a difference for what I'm trying to do.

The thing that I'm noticing with the EXT STEREO,
is that setting seems to split the sound evenly between the front pair and the rear pair.
Is it supposed to be like that?
That makes sense, but it's not to my liking.

I would like to have full power up front and full power in the rear.
Hense 120w per channel.
At least that's how they advertised this receiver.
If you can't get full power out of these 4 channels for music,
then it's really not 120w per channel in my opinion.
That is really going to bumb me out, because i bought this receiver primarily for music.
If it's going to split the power up between the front and rear like that,
to me.....it's quite weak.

Please let me know if there is way to do what I'm wanting to do.

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post #456 of 581 Old 11-28-2010, 05:26 AM
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^^^

i'm really not sure what you are trying to accomplish... "full power" to all channels has nothing to do with it...

"ext stereo" reproduces the "stereo" sound through all speakers...

"the other matrixing modes" (i.e. neo, dplii, etc.) use clues in the soundtrack to re-direct sound to your surround speakers... they are (by definition) going to be "fainter/lower", as they are "creating" a surround effect...

that would be the two options that are available, and the two options that are available, regardless of what avr you purchase...

keep in mind that music ISN'T movies... short of a multi-channel recording INTENDED to make the surrounds "work", you aren't going to have "star wars" type effects from your surrounds...

some other points...

- if your speakers are set to "large", the the xover setting doesn't matter... it's completely ignored...

- a xover of 50 is likely too low... regardless of the "capability/size" of the speaker...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #457 of 581 Old 11-28-2010, 05:30 PM
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What I meant by "full power" is:
I was hoping to somehow be able to get all 4 speakers going at the level that the front speakers normally put out when listening to CD's.
So far i haven't found a way to do it.
The sound always gets split, just as you said.

The only way I can now think of achieving this would be to wire
all 4 towers into the front 2 channels.
I don't know if this can be safely done without messing something up,
or shorting something out.
Can it?

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post #458 of 581 Old 11-28-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Tried all the crossover settings in there from 50-200.
None of them make a difference for what I'm trying to do.

The thing that I'm noticing with the EXT STEREO,
is that setting seems to split the sound evenly between the front pair and the rear pair.
Is it supposed to be like that?
That makes sense, but it's not to my liking.

I would like to have full power up front and full power in the rear.
Hense 120w per channel.
At least that's how they advertised this receiver.
If you can't get full power out of these 4 channels for music,
then it's really not 120w per channel in my opinion.
That is really going to bumb me out, because i bought this receiver primarily for music.
If it's going to split the power up between the front and rear like that,
to me.....it's quite weak.

Please let me know if there is way to do what I'm wanting to do.

ALL low and mid-range receivers "split" their available power amongst the channels. If you read their literature closely, you'll notice that their power ratings are done with only TWO channels driven, and then only at a certain frequency (or range). With three or more channels, the wattage gets divided up and drops quickly -- wherein most 5.1 or 7.1 setups average somewhere between 30 and 60 ACTUAL watts per channel.

You'll have to invest in a much more expensive receiver to get one that produces anything close to the rated power with three or more channels driven. (flagship models) -- or invest in an external multi-channel amp.

Welcome to home audio.

Also, if you don't have a sub, then you'll want to set the crossover as low as it can go (or OFF, if that's an option?). Then again, if your speakers are set to "Large," it ignores the crossover setting anyways, so you should be good there...
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post #459 of 581 Old 11-28-2010, 08:55 PM
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Well thanks for laying it out there.
Of course that's not what I wanted to hear.
I thought the unit I bought was capable of that.
It's supposed to be Pioneer's "flagship" model of it's class right below the start of the ELITE models.
In fact, I was told that it uses alot of last years ELITE internal parts.
Apparently I missed something when reading the specs.
The way it was written was 840w total - 120w x 7
so I figured each channel would push 120w.
That's not the case with these units huh?

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #460 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Well thanks for laying it out there.
Of course that's not what I wanted to hear.
I thought the unit I bought was capable of that.
It's supposed to be Pioneer's "flagship" model of it's class right below the start of the ELITE models.
In fact, I was told that it uses alot of last years ELITE internal parts.
Apparently I missed something when reading the specs.
The way it was written was 840w total - 120w x 7
so I figured each channel would push 120w.
That's not the case with these units huh?

The flagship Pioneers are the SC-series receivers, not vsx.

The 1120 is nearly identical to most of the "Elite" vsx line, but even those do not get close to their rated power with more than two channels driven.

This fact is true of every other brand as well. You'll have to spend much more money to get a new (2010) receiver that pushes rated power-per-channel with all channels driven.

Here's one for ya... $1520:
http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?i...SC37&l=FROOGLE
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post #461 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 07:50 AM
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the issue isn't "power" here... if it was, it would be showing itself... and what the op is seeing isn't a "lack of power"....

it's that the op is looking for something that doesn't exist... he's got 2 options (which i outlined in an earlier post)... either "extended stereo" (i.e. replicate through speakers) or matrix (re-directed to "create" surround)...

if all he wants is his surrounds to be "louder", he can increase the channel trims on those speakers, but it wouldn't (imo) be very good to listen to...

fwiw, the pioneer "flagship" is the sc-09tx... sadly, that will be the last one, and we'll likely never see a "real flagship" again...

and no, hooking both pairs of speakers to the same speaker terminals would not be a good idea...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #462 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

The flagship Pioneers are the SC-series receivers, not vsx.

The 1120 is nearly identical to most of the "Elite" vsx line, but even those do not get close to their rated power with more than two channels driven.

This fact is true of every other brand as well. You'll have to spend much more money to get a new (2010) receiver that pushes rated power-per-channel with all channels driven.

Here's one for ya... $1520:
http://www.abesofmaine.com/item.do?i...SC37&l=FROOGLE


So much for spec sheets.
Another falsified document created for no other reason than to make people think they're getting more for their money and misrepresent what's really going on.

Thanks for the link palehorse,
but uh.....no.
I guess if I had money just to burn no problem, but I don't.
As far as the sc-09tx that ccotenj mentioned....
Sheeze....If I had that kind of money to throw away on a stereo,
we wouldn't even be talking.
I'd pay someone to do everything for me, and to make sure and get it all doing what I want it to do. haha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the issue isn't "power" here... if it was, it would be showing itself... and what the op is seeing isn't a "lack of power"....

it's that the op is looking for something that doesn't exist... he's got 2 options (which i outlined in an earlier post)... either "extended stereo" (i.e. replicate through speakers) or matrix (re-directed to "create" surround)...

if all he wants is his surrounds to be "louder", he can increase the channel trims on those speakers, but it wouldn't (imo) be very good to listen to...

fwiw, the pioneer "flagship" is the sc-09tx... sadly, that will be the last one, and we'll likely never see a "real flagship" again...

and no, hooking both pairs of speakers to the same speaker terminals would not be a good idea...

Yeah...I had already increased the trim.
It's fine for lower level playing but that's about it.

As far as hooking up all 4 to the front:
Isn't that commonly done for Bi-Wiring?
I know it's intended for a different use, but same action right?
Care to explain the difference, and the intended reason for Bi-Wiring itself.
I might Bi-Wire my fronts anyways, just to see the difference in sound.

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post #463 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post


As far as hooking up all 4 to the front:
Isn't that commonly done for Bi-Wiring?
I know it's intended for a different use, but same action right?
Care to explain the difference, and the intended reason for Bi-Wiring itself.
I might Bi-Wire my fronts anyways, just to see the difference in sound.

no. it's not commonly done for bi-wiring at all. hooking the same pair of speakers up, yes. hooking 2 different pairs of speakers up, no.

the reason for "bi-wiring" is to get you to "buy wire"... there's zero benefit whatsoever to it... the same holds for passively bi-amping...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #464 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 09:29 AM
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Why do people do it then?
And why do they make speakers capable of it,
if it doesn't do anything?

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #465 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 09:33 AM
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^^^

people do many things that accomplish nothing (note those that purchase power cords costing thousands of dollars)... "voodoo" is deeply entrenched in the audio world...

why do they make speakers capable of it? it begins with a "m" and ends with a "g" and has "arketin" in the middle... see paragraph one...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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post #466 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

people do many things that accomplish nothing (note those that purchase power cords costing thousands of dollars)... "voodoo" is deeply entrenched in the audio world...

why do they make speakers capable of it? it begins with a "m" and ends with a "g" and has "arketin" in the middle... see paragraph one...

This.
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post #467 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

Pioneer's Amazon write up says,
...
Hopefully the on-screen GUI (and volume) is displayed over any HDMI source (I remember getting the GUI to appear over Component Video was a big deal).

Hey! Can anyone verify that the GUI works over something other than HDMI? I'll likely just have this hooked up to a monitor with erm an a/v cable or component. (not much of a videophile and the 74" TV was purchased juuust pre-hdmi)
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post #468 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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Hey! Can anyone verify that the GUI works over something other than HDMI? I'll likely just have this hooked up to a monitor with erm an a/v cable or component. (not much of a videophile and the 74" TV was purchased juuust pre-hdmi)

The receiver's setup menus certainly work over component; but, for on-screen display of volume, hdmi control is required ("HDMI-CEC," specifically) -- and even that is hit or miss depending on your mix of equipment since HDMI-CEC sucks as a standard.
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post #469 of 581 Old 11-29-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

The receiver's setup menus certainly work over component; but, for on-screen display of volume, hdmi control is required ("HDMI-CEC," specifically) -- and even that is hit or miss depending on your mix of equipment since HDMI-CEC sucks as a standard.

Ahhhha!
I too was wondering about this issue.
The volume only displays on my HDTV when it friggin wants to.
I could never figure out why.
Not much of a concern of mine, but it's nice that the unit itself isn't malfunctioning.

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #470 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 04:35 PM
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I never have had the information show on the TV. I do run HDMI cable. Any suggestions? Also are there any download updates to VSX-1020?
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post #471 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRockman View Post

I never have had the information show on the TV. I do run HDMI cable. Any suggestions? Also are there any download updates to VSX-1020?

Is HDMI control turned on for both the TV and receiver? You may wish to post the issue in the 1020 thread, I'm sure someone who owns one can help you out.

I actually despise hdmi control, so I don't have much experience with it...
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post #472 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 05:01 PM
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Would it be an upgrade to move from the VSX-1014TX to the VSX-1120 for a mid-range 7.1 HT setup? I don't want to sacrifice sound/build quality just for some new bells and whistles.

I was originally considering going with the 1019, but enough people suggested that would really be a downgrade.

Now I have put way enough "fun money" to pay the difference between what I can sell my 1014 for and what it costs for a new 1120.

Yes or no?
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post #473 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 07:59 PM
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How do I control my VSX-1120-K from my PC (Windows 7)?
It is already connected to my home network with an Ethernet cable.
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post #474 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 08:07 PM
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^^^

did you read page 60 of your manual?

if so, where are you getting stuck?

- chris

 

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post #475 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

did you read page 60 of your manual?

Duh. Sorry, don't know how I missed that.

But I was hoping that I could use the computer to rename the inputs. Using the remote is very clunky.

Also, after renaming all the inputs there is no easy way to see which input is which, is there?
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post #476 of 581 Old 11-30-2010, 11:53 PM
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Just purchased a Polk PSW505 Sub.
I've tried everything I can think of and can't get and sound coming out.

I first plugged it in with a Sub Cable from Monoprice.
Connected it from the "subwoofer out" jack just under the center pre out,
and into the Sub's LFE unfiltered jack.
Turned it on, and as I barely touched the volume in the back,
I got a very loud buzzing sound.
The cable was very tight on the back of the receiver, almost seemed too tight.
It made me wonder if it was going into the jack far enough to make proper contact, so I replaced it will a regular RCA cable.
By doing that, the buzz became pretty faint, but still noticeable.
Still...no audio coming from the sub at all.

I ran the MCACC several times.
Each time, a test tone was played through the sub....but VERY VERY Faint, even at 50% volume.
Everything checked out without any errors.
MCACC set my fronts,surrounds, and center to LARGE.
No matter what source I tried, no sound whatsoever.

I tried setting the other speakers to small...nothing.
I tried adjusting the sub channel level to +12....nothing
I tried adjusting the sub to "plus" instead of "yes"....nothing.
I tried using the LFE "filtered" jack on the Sub, instead of the "unfiltered" ...nothing.
I tried using both the Left and Right input jacks on the Sub...nothing.
Tried adjusting the crossover both on the sub and on the receiver....nothing.

Just put the original Monoprice cable back in.
Zero buzz now.
Ran MCACC again.
Same as before.
Nothing.

Can't think of a setting that I HAVEN'T messed with.
Any Ideas???

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #477 of 581 Old 12-01-2010, 05:29 AM
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^^^ run out to Best Buy and grab the cheapest powered sub you can find (maybe the 8" Pioneer sub). Bring it home, hook it up, and see if it has the same problems.

-make sure crossover on sub is turned all the way UP
-make sure crossover on receiver is set to 80hz
-if the sub has an OUT/IN switch, make sure it's set to OUT
-make sure all other speakers remain set to "Small"
-keep SW channel set to "Yes"
-make sure volume (gain) on sub is set between 25% and 50%
-use the Channel Levels menu on the 1120 to test SW channel level

I recently broke the subwoofer out on my 1120 (user error), so I had to go through the same testing process before sending the 1120 in for repairs. It turned out that I had broken an internal ring off on the subwoofer output by moving the receiver around while the RCA cable was plugged in. The repair tech soldered it back on, and it works like a champ again.

But, the first thing you need to do is make sure it's not the Polk sub...
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post #478 of 581 Old 12-01-2010, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mandrake2003 View Post

I was hoping that I could use the computer to rename the inputs. Using the remote is very clunky.

I went to the trouble of calling up Pioneer Support and they said there is currently no way to rename inputs using anything other than the remote.
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post #479 of 581 Old 12-01-2010, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

Is HDMI control turned on for both the TV and receiver? You may wish to post the issue in the 1020 thread, I'm sure someone who owns one can help you out.

I actually despise hdmi control, so I don't have much experience with it...

mmm...I looked at the top of this webpage and this is the vsx-1020 or 1120 thread. Okay, I will try that and make sure HDMI is turned on.
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post #480 of 581 Old 12-01-2010, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mandrake2003 View Post

Duh. Sorry, don't know how I missed that.

But I was hoping that I could use the computer to rename the inputs. Using the remote is very clunky.

Also, after renaming all the inputs there is no easy way to see which input is which, is there?

it happens...

true, it's a bit clunky, but then again, it's not something you are doing everyday.... it's a "set it and forget it" option for most, so it's hardly a deal breaker...

not sure if i understand the question, but if you mean "if i name something xyz, is there a way to tell what input it really is?", you can do so by going into setup... the physical name of the input should still be there...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 


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