Pioneer vsx-1020 and vsx-1120 - AVS Forum

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heyyall's Avatar heyyall
05:37 PM Liked: 10
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I've been "needing" to upgrade my Kenwood VR-2080 receiver to one that handles HDMI. Santa brought a 1080p projector so I can't use my TV for switching any longer. When I set up the projector, I ran HDMI and a composite cable for legacy support. The plan is to upconvert with the receiver once I have the go ahead from the Mrs and use the composite video cable as a 12v trigger. The audio on my kenwood receiver has held up quite well. My bluray player is configured to output DTS @96khz (which is twice the 2080's stated sampling handling of 48khz), so the sound remains truly impressive--not the best but certainly not bad. I'm actually not expecting much improvement in sound quality, but need to simply the system a bit with the HDMI.

So...back to the thread topic. I had mentally decided that the Elite 23 was going to be the replacement. Then this week I've been reading about the new 1020 and 1120's coming out soon and had a few questions.
1. Upconversion: Does anybody know if the 1120 with the Marvell will outperform the 23 in upconversion? Best I could tell this might be similar to video comparison of the 23 with one of the SC receivers (which use the same chip as the new 1120??)?

2. Is this the end of the mid-tier elites (non-ice)? With the 1120 now in the mix, I don't see room for the 21 & 23 anymore. I'm wondering if the Elite's will only be ice amps. I'm not looking to wait until late summer so I'm trying not to be paralyzed thinking about what might be coming down the road. I'm also not going to get the go ahead for a receiver much higher than $500 to $700, so it would serve no purpose to wait for something that would be too expensive. If there was a 23-replacement near the price point of the 1120, it would seem like waiting would be best. Anybody else wrestling with this thought?
juanchibiris's Avatar juanchibiris
07:09 PM Liked: 10
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The second point might be true, that VSX-1120 looks great for a non-Elite, i´m in that road too, maybe wait or maybe buy that receiver, but i am assuming when the Elites will be released if there are an Elite receiver like the 1120, this 1120 will drop his price or something like that.

Oh, and i don´t might about the warranty so maybe can i get it more cheaper than the MSRP?.
Yung's Avatar Yung
07:51 PM Liked: 10
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The VSX-1020 is an update on the VSX-1019. Both the 920K and 1020K will have the same ABT-1015 for video processing as the VSX-1019/VSX-21 and VSX-23. The 1020 will also have PQLS for 2-channel. The VSX-1120 will use a Marvell chip for video processing. Marvell was also used in teh flagship SC-09 but not sure if it is the same chip. The VSX-1120 will also have multi-channel PQLS. Both the 1020 and 1120 will have an Ethernet port for iPhone apps as well as Internet Radio capability. The VSX-1120 will be TXH Select 2 Certified. Here's a link to an interview with Dave Bales of Pioneer which gives some details on the new models.

http://www.avrant.com/?p=1282

I agree that I don't see room for two entry level Elites this year like they have with the 21/23 and the 01/03 the year before.
googlegod's Avatar googlegod
08:04 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanchibiris View Post

The second point might be true, that VSX-1120 looks great for a non-Elite, i´m in that road too, maybe wait or maybe buy that receiver, but i am assuming when the Elites will be released if there are an Elite receiver like the 1120, this 1120 will drop his price or something like that.

Oh, and i don´t might about the warranty so maybe can i get it more cheaper than the MSRP?.

The 1020 still has the light weight 19 pound amps were as the 1120 packs on ten more pounds of muscle, but it has 50% higher msrp. It seems pioneer is the first to market with the 2010 line up with 1.4 , if history means anything, the really good suff isn't to far behind.
emelius's Avatar emelius
08:05 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung View Post

I agree that I don't see room for two entry level Elites this year like they have with the 21/23 and the 01/03 the year before.

they'll make room...& i can hardly wait...
winston9332's Avatar winston9332
09:15 PM Liked: 31
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gents, looking very fondly at the 1120. pioneer may have beaten onkyo at their game of cramming featureset into a receiver at an incredible price point. in the past few weeks, the infuriating POD issue with Marantz's current models have led me to first a 1019 on a whim and then an elite 21. I have been nothing but impressed with Pioneer's mid-level offerings. The 1120 seems to offer the power of the 9040 and a really robust package of features, video processing, and connectivity.

Any one have an idea when they'll be out?
chas_w's Avatar chas_w
09:29 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

gents, looking very fondly at the 1120. pioneer may have beaten onkyo at their game of cramming featureset into a receiver at an incredible price point. in the past few weeks, the infuriating POD issue with Marantz's current models have led me to first a 1019 on a whim and then an elite 21. I have been nothing but impressed with Pioneer's mid-level offerings. The 1120 seems to offer the power of the 9040 and a really robust package of features, video processing, and connectivity.

Any one have an idea when they'll be out?

April, according to this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...ag=mncol;title
joey791's Avatar joey791
07:11 AM Liked: 10
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Even though I have a 1018 that 1120 looks mighty tasty
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj
07:31 AM Liked: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyyall View Post


1. Upconversion: Does anybody know if the 1120 with the Marvell will outperform the 23 in upconversion? Best I could tell this might be similar to video comparison of the 23 with one of the SC receivers (which use the same chip as the new 1120??)?

2. Is this the end of the mid-tier elites (non-ice)? With the 1120 now in the mix, I don't see room for the 21 & 23 anymore. I'm wondering if the Elite's will only be ice amps. I'm not looking to wait until late summer so I'm trying not to be paralyzed thinking about what might be coming down the road. I'm also not going to get the go ahead for a receiver much higher than $500 to $700, so it would serve no purpose to wait for something that would be too expensive. If there was a 23-replacement near the price point of the 1120, it would seem like waiting would be best. Anybody else wrestling with this thought?

1) won't be relevant with hdmi sources. unless pioneer has a major design philosophy change that they are going to unveil this year. with pioneer avr's what comes in on hdmi goes out untouched.

that being said, it can still of value for analog sources. did they say what marvell chip will be in the unit? that would be a start. ime, the marvell processing that is used in the susano is VERY good. i would anticipate that the implementation of the chip would be "normal avr implementation" (i.e. scaling/interlacing is done, and a few adjustments are available, but not all of the goodies are turned on).

2) who knows, but imo, i don't think there will be a "trickle down" of ice amps anytime soon... that's a big product differentiator...
heyyall's Avatar heyyall
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The amazon-posted specs for the 1120 indicate that "Marvell's cutting-edge advanced video processing lets you upscale your picture to digital 1080p from virtually any source, even digital HDMI, at a quality level unprecedented in home theaters." Amazon Citation. This could be a shift in design philosophy, and if the real world performance is half what Pioneer is billing, this will be great.
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj
08:27 AM Liked: 92
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^^^

thanks for posting that...

yup, sure sounds like a shift from that description. that's a big change, and will eliminate a complaint that many have. otoh, hopefully they won't muck up the implementation as others have. given their history, i'd assume they'll do it right though. pioneer usually does.

it does sound great. like i said, the marvell in the susano is very good. noticeably better than the processing in the 150fd, and also ime compares favorably with the anchor bay processing implemented in the dvdo edge and the oppo bdp-83...

this avr sounds like it is shaping up to be a winner, at least in terms of the described feature set... which is a GOOD thing for us pioneer fanboys... pioneer needs to make some money...
marax's Avatar marax
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VSX-1120-k model has LAN input but no DLNA at all, ? That has no sense at all, why they would not put DLNA support ?

One more thing, why they put USB in front, so every time I want to connect iPhone , then the ugly cable would be visible in front of the receiver ? Why is that, I think the old system with input in back + dock is better solution. Could I still use dock + adapter port in the back with the same performances ? Any ideas?
M Code's Avatar M Code
12:05 PM Liked: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyyall View Post

The amazon-posted specs for the 1120 indicate that "Marvell's cutting-edge advanced video processing lets you upscale your picture to digital 1080p from virtually any source, even digital HDMI, at a quality level unprecedented in home theaters." Amazon Citation. This could be a shift in design philosophy, and if the real world performance is half what Pioneer is billing, this will be great.

Proceed with caution..

In lite of all of their corporate difficulties including the collapse of their plasma and aftermarket car audio biz and now majority control by Sharp and Honda, they are facing challenging times..

On paper the new Pioneer AVRs look awesome but one should take a closer look before putting down the $..

Just my $0.01...
onesolo's Avatar onesolo
07:07 AM Liked: 11
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03-08-2010 | Posts: 45
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Hi guys, I'm looking for a new receiver, and this new Pioneer line looks awesome. Right now I'm with an eye on the 1120...
Can anyone shed some lights about some doubts about this model??

Does it come with DNLA support?
What about USB port, does it have one?
Can it be firmware upgradable via rj45?
Does the hdmi signal passes through when the receiver is off or at least in standby??
In paper how does the video chip can be compared with the one for example from Onkyo 807 ??
And what about power ratings, does the Pioneers is used to achieve a good power rating when in full stress (when on 5.1 for ex..)??
GregLee's Avatar GregLee
07:39 AM Liked: 81
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My guesses:
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesolo View Post

Does it come with DNLA support? No.
What about USB port, does it have one? Yes.
Can it be firmware upgradable via rj45? No.

I haven't seen a manual for the 1120 yet. The USB port is mentioned on the Amazon product page.
juanchibiris's Avatar juanchibiris
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At least in the power measurements, it is the only of theri new line who measures his power with a full frequency 20Hz-20KHz, maybe because it is THX Select.
ghken's Avatar ghken
08:33 PM Liked: 10
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The 1120 looks to be the answer to my prayers. I noticed one interesting detail buried at the bottom of the Amazon page for the 1120 in the product description:

>> HDMI 1.4 (6 In / 2 out), 3-D and Audio return Channel, Dual HDMI Output <<

There's no mention of dual HDMI output anywhere else, and the picture of the back panel clearly shows a single HDMI output port (but with enough empty space next to it for a second port).

Maybe the photo is a preproduction model and those of us with dual screen setups (flat panel + front projection) will be doing a happy dance upon final release.
Chip E's Avatar Chip E
04:42 AM Liked: 11
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I'm downsizing my HT habit. The 1120 fits my needs as far as i can tell. Can i use HDMI 1.3 cables with this receiver, i wonder ? I'd assume-yes. I'm not doing 3D anything. I have a 58V10,Fios hd box and a Sony BDP-S350 BD. I'm going to be driving Monitor Audio Apex series sat speakers.
Wesley Hester's Avatar Wesley Hester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghken View Post

The 1120 looks to be the answer to my prayers. I noticed one interesting detail buried at the bottom of the Amazon page for the 1120 in the product description:

>> HDMI 1.4 (6 In / 2 out), 3-D and Audio return Channel, Dual HDMI Output <<

There's no mention of dual HDMI output anywhere else, and the picture of the back panel clearly shows a single HDMI output port (but with enough empty space next to it for a second port).

Maybe the photo is a preproduction model and those of us with dual screen setups (flat panel + front projection) will be doing a happy dance upon final release.

Amazon pre-order for VSX-1020-K

Amazon pre-order for VSX-1120-K

Both pages have a chart and go out of the way to say: 6 inc. Front/
1 Out on the 1120.

VSX-1120-K


VSX-1020-K

aidoroboo's Avatar aidoroboo
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The manuals for the new models are available through the Pioneer website even though there are only links for the 520 and 820.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0302.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0302.pdf
aidoroboo's Avatar aidoroboo
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The 1120 hasn't been posted yet which makes me wonder when they are going to add it and why Pioneer is going to wait to post it.
scionracing's Avatar scionracing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yung View Post

Here's a link to an interview with Dave Bales of Pioneer which gives some details on the new models.

http://www.avrant.com/?p=1282

Thanks for the link!

After listening to the interview in its entirety, I'm still left with some questions:

1) In order to take advantage of the PQLS technology, must we have both a Pioneer-branded AVR and BD player? As someone who has experienced audio and video sync issues, I would like to use the PQLS multi-channel feature in the 1120-K, but I do not have a Pioneer-branded BD player.

2) Does only the 1120-K support 1080p/24 pass-through, or do both models support it? It appears from the mktg. materials that the 1020-K will convert 24p input to 60Hz, resulting in the telecine judder that I have finally been able to eliminate in my home theater.

3) Do the new models (1020 and 1120) still contain everything for iPod connectivity out of the box like last gen.'s models? And I assume the on-screen album artowrk applies to both iPhone and iPod devices?
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scionracing View Post

Thanks for the link!

After listening to the interview in its entirety, I'm still left with some questions:

1) In order to take advantage of the PQLS technology, must we have both a Pioneer-branded AVR and BD player? As someone who has experienced audio and video sync issues, I would like to use the PQLS multi-channel feature in the 1120-K, but I do not have a Pioneer-branded BD player.

2) Does only the 1120-K support 1080p/24 pass-through, or do both models support it? It appears from the mktg. materials that the 1020-K will convert 24p input to 60Hz, resulting in the telecine judder that I have finally been able to eliminate in my home theater.

3) Do the new models (1020 and 1120) still contain everything for iPod connectivity out of the box like last gen.'s models? And I assume the on-screen album artowrk applies to both iPhone and iPod devices?

1) yes. however, pqls won't do anything for audio/video sync issues. it's a jitter reduction mechanism, not a sync'ing mechanism...

2) remains to be seen. still haven't seen enough details on the processor yet, plus once that's known, we need to hear what they crippled on it... that being said, i don't see any real reason that it wouldn't pass 24 if it will pass 60... especially in today's world...

but to paraphrase the great joachim andujar, "there's one word in consumer electronics that says it all, and that one word is 'you never know'"... so i wouldn't go counting any chickens until they are hatched...

3) i would imagine they do have the same connectivity. it's hard to see them going backwards in terms of that. it's a very popular option, and has become almost a de facto connection on every avr. as to what will display, dunno.

edit: pretty amazing when you consider that #3 is true. apple has essentially forced every cem in the world to include a connection just for their device... sony must be GREEN with envy...
MandM's Avatar MandM
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Does anyone know if the 1120 converts hi-def component to hdmi?
ccotenj's Avatar ccotenj
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^^^

i don't see why it wouldn't...
afrogt's Avatar afrogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandM View Post

Does anyone know if the 1120 converts hi-def component to hdmi?


The previous models did, I don't see why it would not.
zervinb's Avatar zervinb
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Did anyone notice that in the pics posted above (thank you Wesley for those), the receivers mention "Made in China". I'm sure my last year's 919 says "Made in Malaysia".

I know that Pioneer would be keeping a strict check on their production whether it be in China or Malaysia, but still, it's interesting to see that they too shifted production.
googlegod's Avatar googlegod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zervinb View Post

Did anyone notice that in the pics posted above (thank you Wesley for those), the receivers mention "Made in China". I'm sure my last year's 919 says "Made in Malaysia".

I know that Pioneer would be keeping a strict check on their production whether it be in China or Malaysia, but still, it's interesting to see that they too shifted production.

I hope Pioneers QC people learned a thing or two from the Denons move to china QC fiasco. I would wait before jumping to buy a NEW product line made in china till the people who own one speak out on whats wrong with it or not. It took a about a year before the major denon xxx9 screw up became posted !! And now the new xx10 reports of bugs are starting to be posted, " The China Syndrome " of bugs
Wesley Hester's Avatar Wesley Hester
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Pioneer got back with me on the VSX-1020-K and said it does NOT support the Audio Return Channel like the VSX-1120-K.
googlegod's Avatar googlegod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

Pioneer got back with me on the VSX-1020-K and said it does NOT support the Audio Return Channel like the VSX-1120-K.

What does that mean / do in the real world ??

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