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post #1 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
Can't find receiver that can drive Dynaudio Focus (220mkII, 200C, 110)
The acoustics has 4 ohms impedance and 87 db sencivity and requires 250 watts of power
Tried Onkyo 5507, but it definitely has not enough power. With this receiver i've got an extremely muffled bass
Besides, onkyo colours highs and lows - i like more neutral sound
Any more options?
I would be happy if it was under USD 5'000
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psoli2003 View Post

Hi,
Can't find receiver that can drive Dynaudio Focus (220mkII, 200C, 110)
The acoustics has 4 ohms impedance and 87 db sencivity and requires 250 watts of power
Tried Onkyo 5507, but it definitely has not enough power. With this receiver i've got an extremely muffled bass
Besides, onkyo colours highs and lows - i like more neutral sound
Any more options?
I would be happy if it was under USD 5'000

Very nice speakers by the way. I had 140s and the 200C awhile back and enjoyed them very much. You could look at the Arcam AVR600. I have not read much about the AVR600 but from what I did read it was very positive. Below is a link to a review of the AVR600.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...er/index1.html

In the review it mentions driving 4 ohm speakers.

The result is that the unit will drive 4 ohms continuously and is in practice stable down to loads of 2 ohms or thereabouts, even those with quite big phase shifts.

You could also consider going with a prepro and seperate amp. When I had the 140s/200C I always used an external amp whether it was an AVR or prepro (naturally with a prepro).

Bill

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post #3 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Very nice speakers by the way. I had 140s and the 200C awhile back and enjoyed them very much. You could look at the Arcam AVR600. I have not read much about the AVR600 but from what I did read it was very positive. Below is a link to a review of the AVR600.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...er/index1.html

In the review it mentions driving 4 ohm speakers.

The result is that the unit will drive 4 ohms continuously and is in practice stable down to loads of 2 ohms or thereabouts, even those with quite big phase shifts.

You could also consider going with a prepro and seperate amp. When I had the 140s/200C I always used an external amp whether it was an AVR or prepro (naturally with a prepro).

Bill

Very interesting...
I'm sure this receiver is the number 1 for today, but...
1. This arcam is rated 120 watts per channel and 60 damping factor. Dynaudio loves high power and high damping factor
2. in my area it is almost USD 7k - quite pricey
The main issue is #1 - does it have enough power? I want my receiver play as good as stereo amps can

Do exist any more receiver that can drive 4 and even 2 ohms?
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 06:12 PM
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HAve you looked into the Marantz sr8002.I'm driving 4ohm speakers with my sr8002 and it does great.Now my speakers are 90db.Both hometheater and ultimateav have reviews on the sr8002.If i remember correctly ultimateav were using martin logan's prodigy.And as Bill Mac suggested just add a good amp.
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 06:16 PM
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Hello,
This really looks like an instance where a high current outboard Amplifier would be the best choice. Something like a used Aragon 8008BB would really give you what you are looking for. Dual Mono construction, dual 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformers, 140,000uf of Filter Capacitance, and made in America.
Here is a link for a review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...gon8008bb.html

They usually sell on Audiogon for around 1200 Dollars, but sometimes are available for less. If looking to spend less, the 8008's predecessor the 4004,
is available for around 800 Dollars or less.

The 4004 was Designed by Krell Founder Dan D'Agostino and is very powerful as well.

Another good choice would be a Parasound HCA-3500 or HCA-2200. Both of these Amplifiers have large transformers and high levels of capacitance and were designed by John Curl.

If wanting to stick with an AVR, I would actually recommend the TX-SR876 B-Stock from Accessories4less. Bear in mind it weighs roughly the same amount as the 9 Channel 5007 and is a 7.1 AVR.
Here is a Bench Test of the TX-SR875: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html
It is available for 829, but again think you would be best served by purchasing an outboard Amplifier.

I am sure some will recommend Emotiva. While brand new is nice, I really think only the XPA-1 is on par with the 8008BB or HCA-3500 it terms of power and high current operation. The XPA-2 has a 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformer and 60,000uf of Capacitance.
Cheers,
AD

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post #6 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psoli2003 View Post

Very interesting...
I'm sure this receiver is the number 1 for today, but...
1. This arcam is rated 120 watts per channel and 60 damping factor. Dynaudio loves high power and high damping factor
2. in my area it is almost USD 7k - quite pricey
The main issue is #1 - does it have enough power? I want my receiver play as good as stereo amps can

Do exist any more receiver that can drive 4 and even 2 ohms?

Well if the AVR600 is $7k in your area that will not work. I really think you would be better off with a receiver such as Marantz or NAD that are well regarded for SQ with music. Then I would definitely add an external amp to what ever AVR you chose. I would highly doubt there is an AVR out there that can handle loads as low as 2 ohms.

Bill

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post #7 of 32 Old 03-11-2010, 07:50 PM
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Check out the Nad T785hd or the Harman Kardon 7550hd they should handle your speakers.
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post #8 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post

HAve you looked into the Marantz sr8002.I'm driving 4ohm speakers with my sr8002 and it does great.Now my speakers are 90db.Both hometheater and ultimateav have reviews on the sr8002.If i remember correctly ultimateav were using martin logan's prodigy.And as Bill Mac suggested just add a good amp.

Rocky, thank you for the reply
8002 is out of the stock
the new 6004 is too weak to drive the dynaudio
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
This really looks like an instance where a high current outboard Amplifier would be the best choice. Something like a used Aragon 8008BB would really give you what you are looking for. Dual Mono construction, dual 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformers, 140,000uf of Filter Capacitance, and made in America.
Here is a link for a review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...gon8008bb.html

They usually sell on Audiogon for around 1200 Dollars, but sometimes are available for less. If looking to spend less, the 8008's predecessor the 4004,
is available for around 800 Dollars or less.

The 4004 was Designed by Krell Founder Dan D'Agostino and is very powerful as well.

Another good choice would be a Parasound HCA-3500 or HCA-2200. Both of these Amplifiers have large transformers and high levels of capacitance and were designed by John Curl.

If wanting to stick with an AVR, I would actually recommend the TX-SR876 B-Stock from Accessories4less. Bear in mind it weighs roughly the same amount as the 9 Channel 5007 and is a 7.1 AVR.
Here is a Bench Test of the TX-SR875: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html
It is available for 829, but again think you would be best served by purchasing an outboard Amplifier.

I am sure some will recommend Emotiva. While brand new is nice, I really think only the XPA-1 is on par with the 8008BB or HCA-3500 it terms of power and high current operation. The XPA-2 has a 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformer and 60,000uf of Capacitance.
Cheers,
AD

Thanks for an advice
actually, i'm looking for an AVR (not 2 channel amp) or pre/pro + multichannel power amp
Unfortunately neither Aragon nor Emotiva are not available in my country
I can order it by post, but will be unable to audition, pay lots of money for delivery and customs fees and don't know what to do with warranty (hopefully no problems, but...)
Onkyo's sound is not for me - it's coloured and harsh
Looks like there are too few models that can satisfy my needs ;(
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Well if the AVR600 is $7k in your area that will not work. I really think you would be better off with a receiver such as Marantz or NAD that are well regarded for SQ with music. Then I would definitely add an external amp to what ever AVR you chose. I would highly doubt there is an AVR out there that can handle loads as low as 2 ohms.

Bill

Thanks, Bill
in this case which AVR and power amp would you recommend?
If we are talking about NAD - which one? 785?
NAD has got no multichannel power amps that can output more than 200 watts
For the moment i can see B&K ref 200.5 ($3400), Parasound A51 ($4800), Rotel RMB-1575 ($3700). Shall i check smth else and what of that worth auditioning?
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ducky6 View Post

Check out the Nad T785hd or the Harman Kardon 7550hd they should handle your speakers.

in the manual of 785 there is written that it outputs 120 watts*7 or 2*140 and can run 4-ohmed speakers
HK 7550 has 85 watts (according to the manual) and nothing is written about impedance.
Looks like that there are only 2 receivers for dynaudio - Arcam AVR 600 (exceeded my budget) and NAD T785 (in the budget)
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Very strange sthing regarding yamahas:
TOP Z11 does not allow 4-ohmed acoustics plugging (no less than 6 ohms at any channel)
Lower model Z7 allow to plug 4-ohmed speakers as fronts. Strange...
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 03:30 PM
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I run a Z7 with Dynaudio Audience 72SE for fronts, Contour SC for center channel and Audience 42Sat for surrounds. I do use the Sub 500. Dynaudio speakers have a very flat impedience curve it makes for a very easy load to drive. If you run a Sub you should be able to run with many receivers depending on your taste. Without a Sub your choices would be more limited, most of your power goes to the low frequencies. The Denon 5308 would also be a good choice. My dad runs a 6.1 Theil set up with one of these and the sound is great. He does use a two channel amp for the fronts. Theils are much more difficult to drive because the impedience curve isn't as flat and they are 4ohm.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 03:32 PM
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Nice speakers by the way. I'd like to upgrade my Aud72se to the new Focus 220 or Focus 360.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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I run a Z7 with Dynaudio Audience 72SE for fronts, Contour SC for center channel and Audience 42Sat for surrounds. I do use the Sub 500. Dynaudio speakers have a very flat impedience curve it makes for a very easy load to drive. If you run a Sub you should be able to run with many receivers depending on your taste. Without a Sub your choices would be more limited, most of your power goes to the low frequencies. The Denon 5308 would also be a good choice. My dad runs a 6.1 Theil set up with one of these and the sound is great. He does use a two channel amp for the fronts. Theils are much more difficult to drive because the impedience curve isn't as flat and they are 4ohm.

Do u run the setup for HT or for stereo as well?
i plan to use these speakers in stere mode (when i'm not wathcing movies) without sub
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice speakers by the way. I'd like to upgrade my Aud72se to the new Focus 220 or Focus 360.

Definitely 360s are much much better, but they require a very big room to show what these beasts can do
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 04:26 PM
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I usually run my speakers with a sub and have them set to cross over at 60hz. The Z7 can be run in straight mode so it would be pure stereo. I haven't done many critical listening test but I don't find the sound offensive and I don't feel as if I'm terribly underpowered.

That said I'd add a power amp if given the right deal. More just because I can than any evidence it would be any better. The Z7 has very good preamp measurements that would make the switch easy.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I usually run my speakers with a sub and have them set to cross over at 60hz. The Z7 can be run in straight mode so it would be pure stereo. I haven't done many critical listening test but I don't find the sound offensive and I don't feel as if I'm terribly underpowered.

That said I'd add a power amp if given the right deal. More just because I can than any evidence it would be any better. The Z7 has very good preamp measurements that would make the switch easy.

got u
thanks for useful info
now i'll need to compare face to face the Z7 and NAD T785
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 05:22 PM
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Last year when I was in your shoes my list was Yamaha Z7/Z11, Arcam 600, Denon 5308, NAD 785HD and Pioneer SC-09.

In the end it came down to the Z7, SC-09 and Denon 5308. Enjoy the hunt, you've got some great speakers to build with.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Last year when I was in your shoes my list was Yamaha Z7/Z11, Arcam 600, Denon 5308, NAD 785HD and Pioneer SC-09.

In the end it came down to the Z7, SC-09 and Denon 5308. Enjoy the hunt, you've got some great speakers to build with.

why did u exclud arcam and nad?
sound?
functionality?
price?
why did u choose yammie?
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post #21 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 05:51 PM
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I have an Arcam Solo 5.1 in another system with some Dynaudio 42Sat and love the sound. I was very excited for the 600 but the bugs at launch, which still haven't been resolved, and missing a few features I wanted excluded Arcam.

On the Nad it was mainly I was tired of waiting for the HD upgrade. Also Nad has a negative reputation for quality that I couldn't overlook.

Yamaha has very good quality and it had all the features that I wanted. I, like you, was worried about amp power. However, it had the features I wanted and Yamaha is a very neutral receiver. If you like Dynaudio you like neutral. I also figured with the preamp section I could always add an amp down the road if needed.

My decision had nothing to do with cost it was about a quality design and the fewest bugs possible with the best sound. I want to enjoy my Dynaudio speakers and not mess with electronics.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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post #22 of 32 Old 03-12-2010, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psoli2003 View Post

Thanks for an advice
actually, i'm looking for an AVR (not 2 channel amp) or pre/pro + multichannel power amp
Unfortunately neither Aragon nor Emotiva are not available in my country
I can order it by post, but will be unable to audition, pay lots of money for delivery and customs fees and don't know what to do with warranty (hopefully no problems, but...)
Onkyo's sound is not for me - it's coloured and harsh
Looks like there are too few models that can satisfy my needs ;(

Hello,
What Country are you located in? Every Bench Test that I have read of the upper tier Onkyo's has shown them to be free of distortion and quite powerful.

In truth, I have never used the amplifiers in my Onkyo TX-SR875 for even one second. I honestly do not know if they work or not. That being said, I have been pleased using it as an SSP (Surround Sound Processor).

Dynaudio's are absolutely fantastic Speakers. If I was to go back to conventional Speakers, it would be Dynaudio or Thiel. Most Dynaudio Speakers are not super efficient, but they are not usually a brutal load for an amplifier. Have you thought about trying a Tube Amplifier?

I have had the opportunity to listen to Dynaudio Confidence C4's with Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks and it was truly one of the best sounding setups I have ever listened to.
Cheers,
AD

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post #23 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
What Country are you located in? Every Bench Test that I have read of the upper tier Onkyo's has shown them to be free of distortion and quite powerful.

In truth, I have never used the amplifiers in my Onkyo TX-SR875 for even one second. I honestly do not know if they work or not. That being said, I have been pleased using it as an SSP (Surround Sound Processor).

Dynaudio's are absolutely fantastic Speakers. If I was to go back to conventional Speakers, it would be Dynaudio or Thiel. Most Dynaudio Speakers are not super efficient, but they are not usually a brutal load for an amplifier. Have you thought about trying a Tube Amplifier?

I have had the opportunity to listen to Dynaudio Confidence C4's with Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks and it was truly one of the best sounding setups I have ever listened to.
Cheers,
AD

Actually, i'm from russia
So you mean that you've purchased your onkyo only as pre/pro? What power amp did u use?
From my point of view Onkyo amps paints high and low frequencies. Is it applicable to preamps as well?
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post #24 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 04:06 PM
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Hello,
I use Aragon and Parasound Amplifiers. I have not noticed any colorations using my Onkyo as an SSP. I would again look at Tube Amplifiers.
Given your Country's expertise with Vacuum Tubes I would imagine that there would be some A/V Companies that specialize in Tubes.

I am not sure if Parasound is available in Russia, but well might be. I would guess that Krell is available there and they make great Amplifiers as well.
Cheers,
AD

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post #25 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
I use Aragon and Parasound Amplifiers. I have not noticed any colorations using my Onkyo as an SSP. I would again look at Tube Amplifiers.
Given your Country's expertise with Vacuum Tubes I would imagine that there would be some A/V Companies that specialize in Tubes.

I am not sure if Parasound is available in Russia, but well might be. I would guess that Krell is available there and they make great Amplifiers as well.
Cheers,
AD

i don't know much about local brands
i'd say they use to be not quite up to the mark
maybe there are some good ones, but me and most people preffer to use brand names if they can afford it
Parasound is definitely available here
My main idea for today is to partner focuses with Nad's T785 receiver and to check things out. It will be my first home audio
the setup will be about $12k - dealer said that 12 may become 10
So, if i will still think that there is not enough power, later i'll get a power amp - smth like Parasound A51 or Rotel 1575 or smth else. What else high current 5 channel power amp may be a good value for money except emotiva?
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 04:58 PM
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i don't know much about local brands
i'd say they use to be not quite up to the mark
maybe there are some good ones, but me and most people preffer to use brand names if they can afford it
Parasound is definitely available here
My main idea for today is to partner focuses with Nad's T785 receiver and to check things out. It will be my first home audio
the setup will be about $12k - dealer said that 12 may become 10
So, if i will still think that there is not enough power, later i'll get a power amp - smth like Parasound A51 or Rotel 1575 or smth else. What else high current 5 channel power amp may be a good value for money except emotiva?

I heard Arcam preamp, Sim Audio Aurora with your speakers and really liked how they sounder together. Your speakers are very power hungry and need tons of power. They will really sing with 200W+ of power. My friend told me that Sim is very popular in Moscow.

Here’s my personal belief… I no longer trust the hype, because we all perceive music differently. Therefore it’s important for me to try and audition the gear in my house before spending my hard earned money.

I have auditioned Gemstone and Aurora and thought that they sounded identical between each other. I ended up buying the Gemstone and saved a lot of money in the process.

- Alex
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post #27 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AlxG View Post

I heard Arcam preamp, Sim Audio Aurora with your speakers and really liked how they sounder together. I’m not sure about your budget… My friend told me that Sim is very popular in Moscow.

Here’s my personal belief… I no longer trust the hype, because we all perceive music differently. Therefore it’s important for me to try and audition the gear in my house before spending my hard earned money.

I would not say Moon is popular - i'd say well known
I've heard focuses with moon 3.3 stereo amp - it was very good
My budget (receiver) as i said is up to USD 5-6 thousand
SIM preamp + power amp (SIMaudio MOON CP-8 RS + SIMaudio MOON MC 8/7) is too expansive - is 50 thousand dollars
Arcam's separates (AV 888 + P777) are out of my budget as well ($15800)

Regarding my questions - i'm asking not to choose for me receiver/amp - i'm asking to recommend what can be ok for me givven the speakers and budget. After people recommend i go and audition the equipment in listening room.
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post #28 of 32 Old 03-13-2010, 06:16 PM
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Hello,
Given your descriptions, I would say the only Emotiva that you would be happy with is the XPA-1 Monoblocks or perhaps the XPA-2.

I really think the A51 would be a great partner for your Dynaudio's. The A51 has a twice a powerful Toroidal Transformer and almost 3 times the Capacitance as the XPA-5. Please realize the Parasound retails for 5 times the retail of the Emotiva so in no way am I speaking ill of Emotiva. The XPA-5 is a fantastic value.

Rather, it seems like a super high current amplifier is what you are wanting.
If you could afford it or perhaps find it used, Parasound's JC-1 Monoblocks are simply fantastic. Sim Audio is another great choice as well.
Cheers,
AD

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post #29 of 32 Old 03-14-2010, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
Given your descriptions, I would say the only Emotiva that you would be happy with is the XPA-1 Monoblocks or perhaps the XPA-2.

I really think the A51 would be a great partner for your Dynaudio's. The A51 has a twice a powerful Toroidal Transformer and almost 3 times the Capacitance as the XPA-5. Please realize the Parasound retails for 5 times the retail of the Emotiva so in no way am I speaking ill of Emotiva. The XPA-5 is a fantastic value.

Rather, it seems like a super high current amplifier is what you are wanting.
If you could afford it or perhaps find it used, Parasound's JC-1 Monoblocks are simply fantastic. Sim Audio is another great choice as well.
Cheers,
AD

In my country the price of Parasound is twice as Emotiva XPA-5 (very expensive emotiva's shiping cost charged by UPS and 30% of retail price to paid as customs fee). In addition to that if it's broken i will have to ship it to emotiva and back on my own expence. Parasound's service center is in my city
So, Parasound looks and sounds better i think.
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post #30 of 32 Old 03-14-2010, 09:58 AM
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Hello,
If that is the case, the A51 would be a fantastic choice. If wanting to spend less, the A21 is a great 2 channel amp and you could use an AVR to drive the other channels.
Cheers,
AD

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