The "Official" Pioneer VSX-1020-K Owner's Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 4548 Old 05-09-2010, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theheadsn View Post

Hello again fellow a/v lovers

Two things this time

I finally got around to rehooking up my speakers outside to my pioneer instead of my old radio. Real nice to have everything running off of one thing.

First question, can you switch between speakers a and b (zone 1 and zone 2) on the remote? or do you have to do it on the reciever itself.

And second question is, is it possible for me to play the radio on zone 2, while listening to say a movie from my ps3 in the main room? If so, id love to know haha

thanks again guys

"a and b" speakers and "zone 1 and 2" are actually two different concepts on the 1020. It sounds like you want zone 1 and zone 2 setup. Yes - you can play 2 different sources in the two different zones. Note that you are limited in the sources that can play in the 2nd zone (mostly only the analog sources and iPod and internet radio - digital audio sources will not play in zone 2).
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post #332 of 4548 Old 05-09-2010, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny22 View Post

I just hooked up my 1020 today and ran into a problem.

I have it wired to my Motorola DCH3200 cable box (via HDMI), and can't get it to put out a Dolby signal...everything is PCM.

I have the cable box audio output set to "passthrough"...the other settings are "PCM" and "Auto" (which also results in PCM displayed on the 1020).

I figure there's some config setting on the 1020 I'm missing...can anyone help me?

Hi Vinny22, with 1020 set to standard (surround sound) if the cable box is sending DD the proper decoding format will automatically be selected and shows in the display.

I also read where some cable box will not output DD using HDMI, but only when using optical out jack. You can try doing a hard reset on the cable box and see if that will give DD output over HDMI.
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post #333 of 4548 Old 05-09-2010, 10:25 PM
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ya I'm not looking to play any digital sources, no 5.1 or anything. Stereo is fine. Just wondering HOW you set it up to play two different sources.

BTW, i have an optical output for on my television. I can just run the optical line to the receiver and play just the audio correct?
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post #334 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 07:19 AM
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Can you set the crossover to 120hz on this unit? Or does it still go from 100hz to 150hz?
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post #335 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 07:31 AM
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I picked up a 1020 over the weekend. I have been building custom cabinetry and needed a slimmer (and cooler) receiver for our secondary viewing room and the 1020 seemed to fit the bill in large part based upon a pleasant experience with the 919/1019 and the elite 21.

For reference, the 1020 is replacing an Onkyo 1007, which I really enjoyed, but was a bit big for the cabinet and largely unused with a baby's bedroom nearly adjacent to the area. Keep in mind, the Onkyo weighs 52 lbs and draws nearly 11 amps - not a fair fight between the two.

In comparison to the 1019/919 (which powers my second and third zones), the 1020 looks very similar, but Pioneer removed the blue led power button (they did the same with the bdp-320 from the 51fd last year as well). The front panel buttons have been reconfigured slightly, but overall the two look very similar.

I have the 1020 configured as 5.1 plus wides. The speaker setup was pretty easy, but it appears that setting it up as normal plus wides would prevent you from operating Zone 2 despite the manual saying the contrary.

In terms of audio quality, the receiver sounds very good and similar to the 1019/919. That said, when turned louder (say -5db), it appears to lose its legs a bit sooner than the 1019. I heard a bit more distortion in playing music loudly (i was alternating the same speakers and source via speaker switch before I had the two connected). That said, I would think most folks would not be able to tell a difference at normal volume levels, but the power draw cut from last year does seem to manifest itself at loud levels in my amateurish testing. Please do not try to pull every thread in my comparison - just an average guy comparing the two side by side.

Running MCACC was as simple as other pioneer models, but the system did seem to be a bit too generous as to the speaker size of the speakers in my setup (audyssey classified them as small and set the individual speaker crossovers at 100hz). I have been using the wide listening mode and have found it reasonably effective in providing a broader sound array for the wide room. I will need more critical listening time to compare it to Audyssey DSX's wide presence processing mode. Overall, I am pleased with the sound quality of the 1020, but it could benefit by a bit more power. I would caution about tying to drive large or inefficient speakers with this receiver if your listening preferences are very loud.

The remote is an improvement in that it is learning, but a step back in dark room navigation. Yes the keys glow in the dark, but labels are small and difficult to quickly identify. It is miles ahead of Denon's odd remotes, but lacks some of the simple and easy to identify buttons of Onkyo.

The receiver has run cooly, which is an improvement from the space-heater my Onkyo could be.

Overall, I am pleased, but am interested in what the 1120 might offer. Fingers crossed it's a got a bit more muscle.
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post #336 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 07:57 AM
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Thanks for the review Winston. Have you considered the Onkyo 608 at all? Since it now has a fan, and is reported to run cooler it might be a candidate for your new cabinet if the 1020 doesn't have the horse power you need.
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post #337 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYNO20 View Post

Can you set the crossover to 120hz on this unit? Or does it still go from 100hz to 150hz?

It goes 100 > 150.
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post #338 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi Vinny22, with 1020 set to standard (surround sound) if the cable box is sending DD the proper decoding format will automatically be selected and shows in the display.

Pushing the "standard" button on the remote just cycles through the Dolby modes, it's not changing the input on the display from "PCM" to "Dolby", which is my objective.

Quote:


I also read where some cable box will not output DD using HDMI, but only when using optical out jack. You can try doing a hard reset on the cable box and see if that will give DD output over HDMI.

Tried a hard reset, also tried an optical hookup (and changed input in the menu to OPT1), still can't get rid of the PCM light.

I know the box is outputting Dolby (I was getting a Dolby light on my Onkyo receiver via optical), but there's some setting in the 1020 that's telling it to process it as PCM. What else can I try?
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post #339 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas_w View Post

Thanks for the review Winston. Have you considered the Onkyo 608 at all? Since it now has a fan, and is reported to run cooler it might be a candidate for your new cabinet if the 1020 doesn't have the horse power you need.

Have not, but might take a look...
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post #340 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 12:07 PM
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I have a question. What do these receivers (or Pioneer) in particular run? Some stripped down version of embedded Linux? Because, I remember both my Panny plasma and old Onkyo receiver gave a copy of GPL with the manual. Can I do some sort of telnet or ssh to the receiver directly incase he gets an IP and is "network pingable?"
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post #341 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didadi View Post

I have a question. What do these receivers (or Pioneer) in particular run? Some stripped down version of embedded Linux?

Based on the fact that I have a 30+ year "Rube Goldberg" assemblage of audio, video, computer, and home automation equipment that includes almost every piece of tech I've ever acquired -- and which makes a mockery of the phase 'integrated system' . . . I'm guessing the OS kernel was 'borrowed' from The BORG...?!

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post #342 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeitingon View Post

"a and b" speakers and "zone 1 and 2" are actually two different concepts on the 1020. It sounds like you want zone 1 and zone 2 setup. Yes - you can play 2 different sources in the two different zones. Note that you are limited in the sources that can play in the 2nd zone (mostly only the analog sources and iPod and internet radio - digital audio sources will not play in zone 2).

thanks i finally figured out the difference between zones and a/b.

I might just keep it a/b for now, I tried it with zone 2, but for some reason i wasn't getting anything to play through the speakers. I set it up in the config for zone 2, turned on multizone, and tried selecting interenet radio, tuner, and whatnot, but nothing came through. I know in the manual it said something about using the actually volume knob on the receiver to control the volume, but that didn't work either.

Any ideas?
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post #343 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

I picked up a 1020 over the weekend. I have been building custom cabinetry and needed a slimmer (and cooler) receiver for our secondary viewing room and the 1020 seemed to fit the bill in large part based upon a pleasant experience with the 919/1019 and the elite 21.

For reference, the 1020 is replacing an Onkyo 1007, which I really enjoyed, but was a bit big for the cabinet and largely unused with a baby's bedroom nearly adjacent to the area. Keep in mind, the Onkyo weighs 52 lbs and draws nearly 11 amps - not a fair fight between the two.

In comparison to the 1019/919 (which powers my second and third zones), the 1020 looks very similar, but Pioneer removed the blue led power button (they did the same with the bdp-320 from the 51fd last year as well). The front panel buttons have been reconfigured slightly, but overall the two look very similar.

I have the 1020 configured as 5.1 plus wides. The speaker setup was pretty easy, but it appears that setting it up as normal plus wides would prevent you from operating Zone 2 despite the manual saying the contrary.

In terms of audio quality, the receiver sounds very good and similar to the 1019/919. That said, when turned louder (say -5db), it appears to lose its legs a bit sooner than the 1019. I heard a bit more distortion in playing music loudly (i was alternating the same speakers and source via speaker switch before I had the two connected). That said, I would think most folks would not be able to tell a difference at normal volume levels, but the power draw cut from last year does seem to manifest itself at loud levels in my amateurish testing. Please do not try to pull every thread in my comparison - just an average guy comparing the two side by side.

Running MCACC was as simple as other pioneer models, but the system did seem to be a bit too generous as to the speaker size of the speakers in my setup (audyssey classified them as small and set the individual speaker crossovers at 100hz). I have been using the wide listening mode and have found it reasonably effective in providing a broader sound array for the wide room. I will need more critical listening time to compare it to Audyssey DSX's wide presence processing mode. Overall, I am pleased with the sound quality of the 1020, but it could benefit by a bit more power. I would caution about tying to drive large or inefficient speakers with this receiver if your listening preferences are very loud.

The remote is an improvement in that it is learning, but a step back in dark room navigation. Yes the keys glow in the dark, but labels are small and difficult to quickly identify. It is miles ahead of Denon's odd remotes, but lacks some of the simple and easy to identify buttons of Onkyo.

The receiver has run cooly, which is an improvement from the space-heater my Onkyo could be.

Overall, I am pleased, but am interested in what the 1120 might offer. Fingers crossed it's a got a bit more muscle.

THANK YOU!

Although I understand the need to figure out odd "Zone 2" setup quirks, I am beyond amazed at how few posts there are in this thread regarding how the receiver actually sounds and performs.
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post #344 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post

THANK YOU!

Although I understand the need to figure out odd "Zone 2" setup quirks, I am beyond amazed at how few posts there are in this thread regarding how the receiver actually sounds and performs.

Well I love the receiver so far, but hell my last receiver was a Sherwood from over 7 years ago lol so ofcourse its gonna compare better. I'm a little peeved about the whole fat PS3 non TrueHD thing; so for me to get TrueHD it shows pcm on the receiver lol other then that, good to go
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post #345 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post

THANK YOU!

Although I understand the need to figure out odd "Zone 2" setup quirks, I am beyond amazed at how few posts there are in this thread regarding how the receiver actually sounds and performs.

The receiver does offer a really good listening experience for a very light (and presumably efficient) unit. That said, I do lament a few things: onscreen osd - at least volume/source/audio codec; a slightly ergonomic remote; and assignable speakers to let you customize presence and zone 2.

Overall, I am happy with the unit and pleasantly surprise how cooly it runs.
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post #346 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theheadsn View Post

Well I love the receiver so far, but hell my last receiver was a Sherwood from over 7 years ago lol so ofcourse its gonna compare better. I'm a little peeved about the whole fat PS3 non TrueHD thing; so for me to get TrueHD it shows pcm on the receiver lol other then that, good to go


SO I have noticed this too, and have been trying to fix it. Is there no way to have the receiver tell me what type of audio signal is being sent through from the PS3 when watching a blu-ray or playing a game? All it says is PCM, what does that mean? I see some options on the PS3 about linear PCM for HDMI or bitrate, but a lot of this stuff is new to me.

What is the best way to have my PS3 setup through the AVR?
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post #347 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chem368 View Post

SO I have noticed this too, and have been trying to fix it. Is there no way to have the receiver tell me what type of audio signal is being sent through from the PS3 when watching a blu-ray or playing a game? All it says is PCM, what does that mean? I see some options on the PS3 about linear PCM for HDMI or bitrate, but a lot of this stuff is new to me.

What is the best way to have my PS3 setup through the AVR?

the older generation of the ps3 could only decode lossless audio codecs internally and send them via lpcm to your receiver. your receiver accepts the signal and only displays pcm because that is what it is receiving. to see the codec, hit the display button on the ps3. this is discussed in one of the blu ray stickys ad nauseum.
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post #348 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 08:29 PM
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Thank's guys, got the best buy 10% off and picked one up today! 499
I even got the Bluetooth adapter but sadly my room won't be ready for a week or two.
I did plug it in with my Cornwall's & Hersey's & KV-2 center and peel the paint off the walls for a few minutes. Not even slightly concerned about lack of pre-amp outs at this point. Can't wait to hook it up to the Plasma and sink into my lounger. More details soon!!!
P.S. like the fit n finish of the remote.

Don't let the smoke out.
My Theater setup:
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post #349 of 4548 Old 05-10-2010, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

The receiver does offer a really good listening experience for a very light (and presumably efficient) unit. That said, I do lament a few things: onscreen osd - at least volume/source/audio codec; a slightly ergonomic remote; and assignable speakers to let you customize presence and zone 2.

Overall, I am happy with the unit and pleasantly surprise how cooly it runs.

Very efficient indeed, great performance considering the size, power rating and weight of this unit. Guess it's ICEpower class D amplifier again here doing all the magic for this Pioneer AVR.
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post #350 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 12:58 AM
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Does the unit have a cooling fan Winston, like the 919/1019?
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post #351 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 04:46 AM
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1st post, new owner of the 1020. No, there is no fan, but yes, it's cool.

Now, my question. I thought, probably incorrectly, that Zone 2 pre-outs were optionally volume controlled by the unit. It seems to be fixed output, which makes Zone2 uncontrollable by the iPhone App. (when the speakers are attached to an external power amp.) Am I missing something? This could almost be a deal killer for me.

(My goal: Zone 2 speakers in kitchen directly connected to speaker terminals, second set outside on deck connected to the external amp, spending most of it's life powered off. Then we can set the 'ratio' of volume between the kitchen and deck, using the iphone App to control it. At least, that was the plan.)

I couldn't find it in the manual. Any secret settings to engage the pre-out volume?
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post #352 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didadi View Post

I have a question. What do these receivers (or Pioneer) in particular run? Some stripped down version of embedded Linux? Because, I remember both my Panny plasma and old Onkyo receiver gave a copy of GPL with the manual. Can I do some sort of telnet or ssh to the receiver directly incase he gets an IP and is "network pingable?"

Have not spent much time with it but yes it is pingable and you can get to the web interface to change internet radio stations.....bout the most I can tell you till I have more time....
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post #353 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoad View Post

1st post, new owner of the 1020. No, there is no fan, but yes, it's cool.

Now, my question. I thought, probably incorrectly, that Zone 2 pre-outs were optionally volume controlled by the unit. It seems to be fixed output, which makes Zone2 uncontrollable by the iPhone App. (when the speakers are attached to an external power amp.) Am I missing something? This could almost be a deal killer for me.

(My goal: Zone 2 speakers in kitchen directly connected to speaker terminals, second set outside on deck connected to the external amp, spending most of it's life powered off. Then we can set the 'ratio' of volume between the kitchen and deck, using the iphone App to control it. At least, that was the plan.)

I couldn't find it in the manual. Any secret settings to engage the pre-out volume?


Still need more time to learn but Zone 2 is a little tricky!

You need to hit the multizone on the panel to turn on zone 2....once it's on you can hit zone 2 on the remote to increase the zone 2 volume....then hit receiver then you are back to zone 1 or master volume
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post #354 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MitsuHelp View Post

Still need more time to learn but Zone 2 is a little tricky!

You need to hit the multizone on the panel to turn on zone 2....once it's on you can hit zone 2 on the remote to increase the zone 2 volume....then hit receiver then you are back to zone 1 or master volume

Correct. Volume out of the pre-outs is fixed, but the amplified signal from the speaker terminals is variable via the front panel or the remote.
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post #355 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 05:47 AM
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Does the unit have a cooling fan Winston, like the 919/1019?

Do not believe so. It ran for about three hours in a cabinet with about 6" of head room and was barely warm. Very cool unit. YMMV.
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post #356 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 06:35 AM
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First, this forum and thread has been an absolute wealth of knowledge for me, so thanks to all the posters. The 1020-K is my first receiver since my Pioneer was stolen about 10 years ago. Due to having to move around so much over the last decade I wasn't able to set up a home theater and so a lot of new receiver technology had passed me by (this is my apology for AV ignorance). Basically, I am in fierce learning mode and AVS has been a great resource.

Hopefully, someone can provide insight to what is probably a very elementary issue (and somehat associated with a previous question from another poster). Currently, I have a Motorola HD/DVR cable box provided by Comcast . I am running composite video and analog out. However, the DVR cable box has an HDMI as well as digital audio out ports.

If I run HDMI from the cable/DVR box to the receiver, is it simply connected to one of the numbered HDMI ports on the receiver?

If so, is the HDMI the only cable I would need out of the DVR/cable box or would I also have to provide an analog audio or optical audio cable to ensure the DVR records (i.e. treat the DVR like a DVD player - p27 of manual)? I understand that HDMI is audio/video, but the manual doesn't provide info specifically on DVR/cable boxes with HDMI.

Also, page 23 of the manual provides info regarding TV setup and I do have HDMI connected. However, the manual states that in order to listen to the sound of the TV over the receiver, there must be either an analog or optical
cable connected, which I don't but hear audio fine. Is this connection simply if I want audio to eminate from my TV speakers?

Thanks in advance for any info you may have! Sorry for the long-winded post.
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post #357 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny22 View Post

Pushing the "standard" button on the remote just cycles through the Dolby modes, it's not changing the input on the display from "PCM" to "Dolby", which is my objective.



Tried a hard reset, also tried an optical hookup (and changed input in the menu to OPT1), still can't get rid of the PCM light.

I know the box is outputting Dolby (I was getting a Dolby light on my Onkyo receiver via optical), but there's some setting in the 1020 that's telling it to process it as PCM. What else can I try?

I would thoroughly check the cable box. The receiver is telling you the truth which is it is receiving a PCM signal. This means that the cable box is decoding the signal and sending it as PCM. I have had similar problem with my previous setup (Comcast & Pioneer 1015). The receiver is very accurate when it comes to decoding and generally displays accurate info.

Also, look in the back of the cable box and make sure there is a light coming out of the optical port. Remember with optical signals, no light means no signal is being transmitted.

Lastly, make sure the programming you are watching has Dolby Digital sound. Only HD content and certain movie channels have Dolby Digital. Non HD content is hit or miss.

I hope this helps.
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post #358 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhour1973 View Post

First, this forum and thread has been an absolute wealth of knowledge for me, so thanks to all the posters. The 1020-K is my first receiver since my Pioneer was stolen about 10 years ago. Due to having to move around so much over the last decade I wasn't able to set up a home theater and so a lot of new receiver technology had passed me by (this is my apology for AV ignorance). Basically, I am in fierce learning mode and AVS has been a great resource.

Hopefully, someone can provide insight to what is probably a very elementary issue (and somehat associated with a previous question from another poster). Currently, I have a Motorola HD/DVR cable box provided by Comcast . I am running composite video and analog out. However, the DVR cable box has an HDMI as well as digital audio out ports.

If I run HDMI from the cable/DVR box to the receiver, is it simply connected to one of the numbered HDMI ports on the receiver?

If so, is the HDMI the only cable I would need out of the DVR/cable box or would I also have to provide an analog audio or optical audio cable to ensure the DVR records (i.e. treat the DVR like a DVD player - p27 of manual)? I understand that HDMI is audio/video, but the manual doesn't provide info specifically on DVR/cable boxes with HDMI.

Also, page 23 of the manual provides info regarding TV setup and I do have HDMI connected. However, the manual states that in order to listen to the sound of the TV over the receiver, there must be either an analog or optical
cable connected, which I don't but hear audio fine. Is this connection simply if I want audio to eminate from my TV speakers?

Thanks in advance for any info you may have! Sorry for the long-winded post.


"If I run HDMI from the cable/DVR box to the receiver, is it simply connected to one of the numbered HDMI ports on the receiver?"
Yes....if you connect form cable/DVR via HDMI to receiver then HDMI to TV, you should be able to view cable/DVR provided there is not any wierd cable copyright protection going on (you never know sometimes!).....


"Also, page 23 of the manual provides info regarding TV setup and I do have HDMI connected. However, the manual states that in order to listen to the sound of the TV over the receiver, there must be either an analog or optical
cable connected, which I don't but hear audio fine. Is this connection simply if I want audio to eminate from my TV speakers?"
From what I gather yes you would need one of those connections to hear the TV through the receiver (Don't have HDMI TV yet).....so are you saying you can hear the TV audio without those cables on your receiver? If so you have one of the sets that must be sending the audio back via HDMI which is great to hear!.....other sets may not do that and would need the additional connections to hear from the receiver....
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post #359 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhour1973 View Post

If I run HDMI from the cable/DVR box to the receiver, is it simply connected to one of the numbered HDMI ports on the receiver?

YES
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhour1973 View Post

If so, is the HDMI the only cable I would need out of the DVR/cable box or would I also have to provide an analog audio or optical audio cable to ensure the DVR records (i.e. treat the DVR like a DVD player - p27 of manual)? I understand that HDMI is audio/video, but the manual doesn't provide info specifically on DVR/cable boxes with HDMI.

If I understand your setup, what do you need to connect to the dvr besides the receiver? It has an internal storage device to hold the recorded programs, right? Just hook it up via hdmi to the receiver and be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhour1973 View Post

Also, page 23 of the manual provides info regarding TV setup and I do have HDMI connected. However, the manual states that in order to listen to the sound of the TV over the receiver, there must be either an analog or optical
cable connected, which I don't but hear audio fine. Is this connection simply if I want audio to eminate from my TV speakers?
.

Ignore this. you're over-complicating things. If you want to listen to the receiver while watching tv, all you need is two hdmi cables (one from dvr to rcvr and one from rcvr to tv). If you want to listen to the tv speakers only some of the time, you would then run an hdmi cable from the dvr to the tv and then a parallel optical signal to the receiver.
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post #360 of 4548 Old 05-11-2010, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by NETPCTECH View Post

I would thoroughly check the cable box. The receiver is telling you the truth which is it is receiving a PCM signal. This means that the cable box is decoding the signal and sending it as PCM. I have had similar problem with my previous setup (Comcast & Pioneer 1015). The receiver is very accurate when it comes to decoding and generally displays accurate info.

Also, look in the back of the cable box and make sure there is a light coming out of the optical port. Remember with optical signals, no light means no signal is being transmitted.

Lastly, make sure the programming you are watching has Dolby Digital sound. Only HD content and certain movie channels have Dolby Digital. Non HD content is hit or miss.

I hope this helps.

correct. if you're getting pcm from the cable box, the cable box is sending the signal as pcm. has nothing to do with the receiver and everything to do with the cable box.

this is common if you run hdmi directly to your tv and a second optical to a receiver. the cable box makes the hdmi handshake and begins to send downmixed two channel pcm to the tv and duplicates the signal to the receiver. i had this issue and had to run hdmi video to my tv and analogue stereo to the tv and optical 5.1 to the receiver. this prevented the hdmi handshake from downmixing everything (including optical). scientific atlanta hd boxes and dvrs function this way.
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