How to DIY ; TX-SR576/TX-SR606/etc HDMI daughterboard repair (for dummies?) - Page 31 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 915 Old 12-20-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quick status update, I have replaced the cheap 100uF caps with Panasonic FR caps as suggested by MikeMartell, now everything works incl. OSD...no clue if there was a bad cap or soldering was not 100%, at least the polarity was OK from the beginning. Now I have a small stock of various caps I hopefully don't have to replace
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post #902 of 915 Old 12-20-2014, 10:42 AM
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Good job. Enjoy your "new" receiver lol.
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post #903 of 915 Old 12-24-2014, 11:49 PM
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Replacement Board Question

I tried my hand at replacing the capacitors on the BCHDM-0132(25140132B) board for the Onkyo HT-RC-140 (picture attached), but it turns out I am really bad at soldering to flat surfaces.

Anyhow, I am looking to buy a replacement board but I want to make sure that it is not going to fail after a few months. Is there a way to find a place that sells this board that uses better capacitors?

I'm looking at some on Ebay, but again I can't tell if is an old model that uses the bad capacitors or something newer that hopefully does not.

Thanks in advance
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post #904 of 915 Old 12-24-2014, 11:55 PM
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Ht-rc-180*
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post #905 of 915 Old 12-31-2014, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punjabby View Post
Hi I have an onkyo tx-sr608 with no sound coming from speakers when using hdmi. I feel I have the infamous hdmi board failure... Has anyone else with a sr608 tried this fix? I feel like I should go ahead and try it anyway...any suggestions?
I've just completed this with a TX-SR608 and it works fine again. It's the same general approach as in other tutorials and videos out there for different models but there are a few minor differences.

There are three 16v 100μF capacitors on the top of the board and one 50v 4.7μF capacitor on the underside. There are extra HDMI connections including one internal one linked to the front panel. I've uploaded a few pictures from the process to Imgur http: //imgur.com/a/F0JIz.
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post #906 of 915 Old 01-03-2015, 03:24 PM
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Quick question ... on the 606 receiver ... does the front HDMI input also fall victim to the board problem.

In other words - can this receiver be used just to process HDMI audio (i.e. no HDMI out needed) by using the front HDMI input?
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post #907 of 915 Old 01-04-2015, 05:01 PM
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Thanks all, this information is great. Crazy that this thread almost has 1000 posts, and a video on how to fix it has 88k views, but Onkyo didn't recall these receivers.

I'm having a problem in my setup, that may be related, but I just want to make sure before I crack it open and start soldering.

My TX SR-606 starts up fine, but the audio and video, supplied via HDMI, cuts out intermittently. It can be fine for 30 minutes, then it cuts out for 3 seconds or so, then comes back. Sometimes this happens several times in a span of ten minutes. Sometimes it doesn't happen for 45 minutes.

Does this sound like a capacitor issue?

Thanks.

EDIT - is that the longest time span between join date and first post ever??
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post #908 of 915 Old 01-09-2015, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ_the_DAY View Post

Many have observed how temperature affects the faulty ONKYO but I can elaborate. While my unit would be on the verge of instability with artifacts in the video, I'd barely cool* the chip SiI9185' (3to1 HDMI switch) and the signal disappeared until it warmed. Same conditions, cooling* neighbouring chip SiI9013' (HDMI receiver) and the signal became flawless temporarily. IOW change a chip's tolerance to noisy power by means of temperature. (Initially I feared faulty chips!) This helps explain the commonly reported wait times after first powering on.
Sorry for dredging this old thread up, but just in case someone was wondering, there is a sort of technical explanation that might explain this weird temperature sensitivity.

I am assuming for the purposes of this discussion that the HDMI receiver IC connects between the HDMI input connector and the HDMI 3-to-1 switching IC on this receiver.

CMOS transistors are sensitive to temperature. When they are cool, they switch faster, causing the output transitions of its internal logic gates or its external output buffers (output pin drivers) to be sharper and the IC draws more current as a result.

If the HDMI switching IC is cooled, it might have faster internal logic edge rates and draw more current from its supply, increasing its sensitivity to local regulator power supply ripple from failing capacitors and causing internal data corruption, particularly at the input buffers where the effective input voltage high and low levels might vary due to power supply ripple shifting the input switching threshold voltages.

If the HDMI receiving IC is cooled, it might also start switching faster and create sharper transitions on its output, increasing the edge rate and improving the apparent signal-to-noise ratio seen at the input pins of the HDMI switching IC that is experiencing excessive power supply ripple and having input threshold issues.

This is just an educated guess, but I have personally debugged similar issues with digital interfaces in the past by using various methods to modify the buffer output switching speeds, or modify the internal switching speeds, to affect the edge rate and power consumption of similar devices.

I currently own 6 various models of used Onkyo receivers that I purchased from private parties for a project. Every single one of them turned out to be in the early stages of HDMI failure or already failed when I got them. They do not qualify under Onkyo's recent recall because I do not have an original receipt and they were not purchased from an authorized reseller, so I am in the process of repairing them myself using information similar to this thread.
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post #909 of 915 Old 01-09-2015, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umenon View Post
Quick question ... on the 606 receiver ... does the front HDMI input also fall victim to the board problem.

In other words - can this receiver be used just to process HDMI audio (i.e. no HDMI out needed) by using the front HDMI input?
If I understand you correctly, you want to use the HDMI front panel input to get audio only from the receiver.

First off, if you are using an AV source such as a blu-ray player, you will still need both audio and video connections anyway.

Secondly, this failure mode eventually worsens and takes the whole HDMI functionality with it, including audio.

If you want to use your receiver as audio-only device, use the optical or RCA digital audio inputs on the back panel, or the analog inputs. None of these signals require the HDMI function to work.

There are some network-capable receivers that apparently have issues with the network chip solder balls. Onkyo claims the chips are defective but IMO there is also the possibility that the high temperatures on the HDMI board are partly responsible for the solder ball failures due to thermal expansion and contractions over many power cycles.

The (claimed) network chip symptom is audio dropouts that can eventually become permanent, but my TX-NR929 is having both audio and video dropouts so YMMV, especially if your receiver is experiencing both failed capacitors and failed solder balls.

I recommend to everyone with a failed Onkyo HDMI board to call the service department and ask for a free repair regardless of warranty due to the ridiculous failure rate of these boards. My guess is, if you make enough noise they will repair it no matter whether it 'qualifies' under the terms of the limited recall or not. If they refuse to repair it I would demand they buy it back from you so you can purchase another receiver and I would recommend buying a different brand also, at least until Onkyo reliability improves, especially if they left you holding a receiver with a broken HDMI.
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post #910 of 915 Old 01-11-2015, 01:24 PM
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UPDATE: About 6 months after replacing my capacitors my unit finally bit the dust - for good.

I opted to go out and buy a new Sony DN-1040 and I've been really happy with it. Thanks for the thread guys!

Panasonic TC-P50S30 • Sony STR-DN1040 • Polk RM6750 • PS3 + PS4 • XBOX 360 + ONE • AppleTV • Logitech Harmony 700
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post #911 of 915 Old 01-14-2015, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I really wish I could devote the concentration required to do a refresh of the front page of this thread - all that has been expressed, spanning so many models, may be further unified to spare those just tuning in from reading all of the nearly *1000 posts (*noted by graham_b) - don't get me wrong, it's not without entertainment value - CherylJosie even contributed a hypothesis that expanded on my silicon observations and musings , plus gives me visions of peoples baking their receivers in ovens, with hopeful stares and fingers crossed - sorry but these aren't xboxz - perhaps the majority of the nearly 300,000 'views' of this thread to date were those expecting a fix truly fit for a dummy - sorry to disappoint - my admiration goes out to all who tried and shared, whether successful or not

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post #912 of 915 Old 01-25-2015, 12:57 AM
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TX-SR606 Permanent Cooling Solution

Thanks to the contributors to this & other threads, I've now successfully fixed three TX-SR606 receivers that I bought very cheaply because of HDMI switching / upscaling / OSD problems. I've kept one for the lounge, one for the music room and I've given the third to my brother-in-law who's thrilled with it.

What's worked for me is replacing ALL the 100uF and 220uF electrolytics on the top and bottom of the HDMI board with 105C 16V or 25V electrolytics (depending on what I could get), also a 22uF on the top of the board near the HDMI-out with a 22uF 16V, and putting 1uF film capacitors across some of regulators as advised earlier in the thread. Photos of the finished board attached.

But..... (and there's always a but, isn't there?).... I found that one of the receivers had actually already had all its capacitors replaced previously, but the new ones had gone bad. Replacing them fixed the problem and the receiver works well. But this led me to thinking about the HDMI heat problem generally, and whether an effective and unintrusive cooling solution is possible.

I found that there's easily room to fit a standard 120mm 12v computer case fan inside the receiver case, directly above the HDMI board. So I bought a cheap one with standard molex connectors and fitting screws from a local supplier (ebay has them too). I chose one with a current draw of around 0.2A, a rotation speed of around 1300rpm, and a noise factor of less than 20dB as I want it near-silent. (Note: my pictures show a sleeve-bearing fan, but a ball-bearing or hydro-bearing is better for longevity).

I removed the receiver cover and positioned the fan on the underside of the cover, where it would blow downwards onto the HDMI board - I thought this would be better than drawing the heat upwards onto the board. I marked where the mounting holes needed to be and carefully drilled (4.5mm) the top of the receiver cover and countersunk them. I then fitted the fan to the underside of receiver cover using the fitting screws - I used a couple of washers as spacers between the fan and the cover to avoid any chance of the blades rubbing against the cover in operation.

I snipped the spare molex connector and its wires off the end of the fan, leaving the other molex still attached to the fan's red & black leads. I snipped the red and black wires off the connector I'd just removed (as they're not needed), leaving just the yellow and black wires. I then cut the yellow wire in the middle, and soldered a 47 ohm 1 watt resistor in line with the yellow lead, to reduce the fan voltage from 12v to around 7v so it will run slower and near silent. I used heatshrink tubing to insulate the resistor and solder joints.

With the HDMI board removed, I carefully poked the yellow and black molex wires through the hole in the top of the HDMI board (next to the white connector with the black ribbon cable that carries 12v from the power supply to the HDMI board - you may need to slightly enlarge the hole depending on the thickness of the molex wires). I soldered the black molex lead to one of the 0V pins of the white connector on the underside of the HDMI board, and the yellow molex lead to one of the 12V pins as shown in the attached photo.

Lastly, I re-fitted the HDMI board and its connectors, and carefully replaced the receiver cover, plugging the fan's molex into the one I'd just fitted to the HDMI board. Plugged the receiver in and bingo, when it powers up, the fan spins almost silently. It draws only around 0.11A so won't be much of a burden on the power supply.

I've been running it like this for a few weeks now. in my closed hi-fi cabinet, the receiver used to run so hot that I could barely touch the case above the HDMI board. Now it runs warm to the touch, but not hot, and the cabinet seems cooler too because air is being circulated. I'm expecting that this will prevent any future HDMI failures due to heat. It looks great and runs silent and I've now made the same modifications to the other two SR606's that I've fixed. Planning the same modification to an TX-SR607 I've just purchased to fix up (bad caps on amp driver board, due to heat/age, causing protect mode).

Only thing I've found is that, if HDMI Control is turned on in Setup (Hardware / HDMI), the fan will run even when the receiver is on standby - this is because the HDMI board is still receiving 12v for the control circuits, so it's probably a good thing to keep it cool, although it will of course shorten the life of the fan. However, these fans typically run for years, and the way I've fitted it means that it's easily replaced if needed.

Photos of the modification attached - I hope this is useful to some other SR606 owners as it's it's a really excellent receiver when it works!
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post #913 of 915 Old 02-04-2015, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ_the_DAY View Post
I really wish I could devote the concentration required to do a refresh of the front page of this thread - all that has been expressed, spanning so many models, may be further unified to spare those just tuning in from reading all of the nearly *1000 posts (*noted by graham_b) - don't get me wrong, it's not without entertainment value - CherylJosie even contributed a hypothesis that expanded on my silicon observations and musings , plus gives me visions of peoples baking their receivers in ovens, with hopeful stares and fingers crossed - sorry but these aren't xboxz - perhaps the majority of the nearly 300,000 'views' of this thread to date were those expecting a fix truly fit for a dummy - sorry to disappoint - my admiration goes out to all who tried and shared, whether successful or not
Please consider adding a permalink to the preceding uber comment on this thread in your initial thread-starting post, since it basically covers the repair and the cure for the design issues all in one succinct, excellent post. I really think a simple fan is the way to go for this failure mode, after repairing/replacing the HDMI board. Bravo.
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post #914 of 915 Old 02-06-2015, 02:29 PM
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wow this thread is 5 years old and might just save my bacon..

My 576 Started to refuse to show an image from my PC (was always intermittent), but now on top of that it won't show a signal from my PS3 which was never an issue.

still ok with my stb at 1080i, so looks like it's a candidate for some DIY.

strangely enough it's not showing no signal on the display, but i'm not getting an image regardless..

will let you know how i get on.

thanks everyone for the information.

Last edited by Marticus100; 02-06-2015 at 02:38 PM.
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post #915 of 915 Old 02-15-2015, 08:43 AM
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Thanks to Serafis for posting this detailed bugfix description. I had the same issue with my TX SR 606: HDMI inputs were showing up late, also the normal composite inputs
had only Audio and I had to turn on and off 1000x times to see the picture.

First I saw the video on Youtube, (cannot add the URL unfortunately) and later found this post on AVS.
I decided to exchange also all mentioned Caps. Ordered from Mouser for 10 bugs, replacement
was done in an hour, not so difficult. I also added two 80mm 0.2A fans to circulate out the heat, 50Ohm in series to tapped 12V to bring
it down to noiseless RPMs at ~7V. One is blowing on the HDMI board, the other one blowing out.

Everythings works perfect again!!
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