*Official* Denon AVR-1911/791 & AVR-2311CI/891 Owner's Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If the couch is centered on the TV, then the sweet spot of your couch would be the center of the couch at ear height. Place the tripod on the couch and as SOM noted, just move it on a 2-3' radius around that sweet spot for the remaining 5 positions.

By "eyeballing" he simply means when you are seated on the couch does it "look" like the center speaker (CC) is pointed right at your face? (in other words if it was simply resting on the stand it would be pointed at your knees). Ideally you'd also want to raise the center speaker about 1' to be in line with the FL and FR speakers as well (just below your TV).


Thanks for that. And do you think it's necessary for me to use all 6 positions or would 3 suffice? Still slightly unclear where they should be as the couch is so small.
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post #722 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


Although the settings will generally remain for about 1-2 weeks with the AVR unplugged, you're not really saving much by leaving it plugged in ... likely only about $0.30/month and that's with HDMI Control set to ON .... with it OFF maybe about $0.01/month. The unit likely won't take much longer to completely power on when unplugged as simply plugging it in places the unit in standby.

Thank you for the quick reply. You've had a ton of useful information in this forum. Your voluntary knowledge is greatly appreciated
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post #723 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 10:14 AM
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jd's points are right on. Ideally the tweeters of the fronts are all at seated ear level.

Ah, that's not a chair, that's a loveseat. Midpoint between the 2 seats is often recommended as pos #1, as jd stated. However your idea is fine, too. If you often watch alone and prefer to optimize the left seat then you certainly can use exactly where your head is normally for pos #1. I doubt it will make a whole lot of difference. Oh, it seems like your surrounds are positioned a little far back. If possible, they should be even with your head (90 degrees from centerline) when running surround backs.

Use all mic positions available(6 for MultEQ).

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post #724 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

jd's points are right on. Ideally the tweeters of the fronts are all at seated ear level.

Ah, that's not a chair, that's a loveseat. Midpoint between the 2 seats is often recommended as pos #1, as jd stated. However your idea is fine, too. If you often watch alone and prefer to optimize the left seat then you certainly can use exactly where your head is normally for pos #1. I doubt it will make a whole lot of difference. Oh, it seems like your surrounds are positioned a little far back. If possible, they should be even with your head (90 degrees from centerline) when running surround backs.

Use all mic positions available(6 for MultEQ).

Again thank you.

The sofa is pulled away from the wall. Presumably I'd be better pushing it back so it's closer to the surround backs.
My only concern with doing that was that the surrounds would not be hitting me (as they are bi polar).
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post #725 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JamesP1701 View Post

...The sofa is pulled away from the wall. Presumably I'd be better pushing it back so it's closer to the surround backs.
My only concern with doing that was that the surrounds would not be hitting me (as they are bi polar).

You're quite welcome. We like pictures as it's fun to virtually visit with another HT enthusiast and throw some ideas around to see if it improves the SQ. I would not push the seat further back to optimize surround placement because you would be getting further and further from the more important fronts. I believe it would actually sound better overall if you could get a little closer you to the fronts but that does not seem practical in your room. I am again referring to ideal placement, which would have the FR/L in a semicircle, each 30 degrees off center, all fronts equidistant to you at ear level and all pointed at your head. I only mentioned the surrounds in case the speakers were easy to reposition. Enjoy.

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post #726 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

You're quite welcome. We like pictures as it's fun to virtually visit with another HT enthusiast and throw some ideas around to see if it improves the SQ. I would not push the seat further back to optimize surround placement because you would be getting further and further from the more important fronts. I believe it would actually sound better overall if you could get a little closer you to the fronts but that does not seem practical in your room. I am again referring to ideal placement, which would have the FR/L in a semicircle, each 30 degrees off center, all fronts equidistant to you at ear level and all pointed at your head. I only mentioned the surrounds in case the speakers were easy to reposition. Enjoy.

I intend to! Last word, in summary, what would you advise in a simple sense to do with the centre speaker during setup to get the same clarity with dialogue with dynamic eq on as I do when it's off?
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post #727 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesP1701 View Post

... what would you advise in a simple sense to do with the centre speaker during setup to get the same clarity with dialogue with dynamic eq on as I do when it's off?

Just to reiterate, position it as well as you can into its permanent place before autosetup because you do not want to move it after measurement. So just slide it forward to the edge of the cabinet. If you can raise it up higher so it's closer to the FR/L and to ear level, that's even better. If you leave it at its current height, check that it's angled so it's aimed at your head (or right between the heads of the two people, your chice) when seated.

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post #728 of 5060 Old 08-01-2010, 10:55 PM
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Iphone 3gs 4.0.1 plugged into Denon 2311ci keeps giving me connection failed....
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post #729 of 5060 Old 08-02-2010, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by andrios View Post

Iphone 3gs 4.0.1 plugged into Denon 2311ci keeps giving me connection failed....

There are other reports in this thread of iPhones with OS4 not working. Some have good luck, but the rest don't.

Blame Apple for changing something and not releasing the specs to other manufactures. When Denon designed these AVRs, there was no OS4 out.
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post #730 of 5060 Old 08-02-2010, 09:39 PM
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A have a few questions regarding the post calibration from Audyssey.

I ran the calibration in 6 spots via the 2311 on screen prompts (wish they had left out the calculation option until all 6 were completed, can easily make you think u have to press it).

That went well with just a slight measurement change to the subwoofer distance, which the system thought was further away by 10% that what i measured. Changed the main fronts to small also and had to tell it the polarity was correct (triple checked it for the fronts).

I then put on a multichannel disc and quickly checked it out. In direct mode, it sounded quite flat (can't recall the EQ settings it setup), pressed the STANDARD button, then the multi EQ setting button on the remote and the sound was much sweeter. Then i checked what other settings were enabled. It had the dynamic EQ, so I turned that off for the time being.

I just want to understand, the settings a bit better.

If Pure Direct is the pureset sound, Direct is the 2nd purest sound, both with no Audyssey processing, is the STANDARD setting the next setting in terms of least DSP effects....

I am guessing that this is the case and with MultiEQ on, this will let me audition this Audyssey effect... then if I want, I can slowly enable the other built in Audyssey effects..

Is it possible to use the speaker measurements that MultiEQ obtained to setup/balance the front 2 speakers for pure direct CD / hi-res audio listening?

Thanks
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post #731 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewonderer View Post

...That went well with just a slight measurement change to the subwoofer distance, which the system thought was further away by 10% that what i measured. Changed the main fronts to small also and had to tell it the polarity was correct (triple checked it for the fronts).

I then put on a multichannel disc and quickly checked it out. In direct mode, it sounded quite flat (can't recall the EQ settings it setup), pressed the STANDARD button, then the multi EQ setting button on the remote and the sound was much sweeter. Then i checked what other settings were enabled. ...If Pure Direct is the pureset sound, Direct is the 2nd purest sound, both with no Audyssey processing, is the STANDARD setting the next setting in terms of least DSP effects....Is it possible to use the speaker measurements that MultiEQ obtained to setup/balance the front 2 speakers for pure direct CD / hi-res audio listening?...

Hi. Reading batpig's guide Audyssey section and following the Audyssey setup guide is a great way to understand Audyssey, an important feature of your AVR. Do not reset the sub "distance" lower, as it is actually measuring acoustic delay. As you did, skip the polarity warning after confirming you're wired correctly (just once will do). If you like, post all your values (level, xovers) for review here. We recommend raising all xovers to 80 as a start.

As to Pure Direct/Direct,yes those apply "minimal" processing but let's be clear, it is all processed, so none of it is "Pure". The funny part is that the additional Audyssey processing is exactly what makes it sound so much better, particularly if you do not have very expensive speakers in an acoustically treated room. I would say that for most of us, Direct/Pure Direct is actually INADEQUATE processing. The reason Audyssey sounds "sweeter" is that it has optimized the processing for your room and speakers. And when you enable DEQ, it further optimizes the sound for the volume you're listening at. For ex., so that the natural psychacoustic effect of the bass sounding weaker and weaker as you turn it down is adjusted for, so it sounds full and rich, as it should. The Audyssey website and AVS Audyssey thread are great sources of info on this breakthru state of the art technology.

Yes, the Std button keeps you away from weird Denon DSP modes. I do not use those nor Dir/PureDir. And I always have Audyssey ON as EQ and DEQ ON (the red light) as the mode. You will find DEQ needs no adjustment for standard film sountracks but often needs to be adjusted for other, non-standardized sources such as TV and CD's, with the reference level offset. Or if you want to turn it off, you have all the options, as you listed. DVol does not enhance the overall SQ as DEQ does, rather it is dynamic compression, which evens out the loud and soft parts for your listening convenience. I use it as needed, for ex., for commercial TV to tone down commercials, in mild (Day) or medium (Eve) mode, but never when wanting to enjoy the full effect of music or film.

As to your last question, yes the distance measurements and crossovers are applied automatically to all modes as a default after autosetup, even when Audyssey is off. With Audyssey off you can also select Manual EQ which has a basic basic graphic EQ and you can select "base curve copy" which applies a very coarse, approximate version of the Audyssey EQ to the graphic EQ for you.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #732 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 08:41 AM
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Can I just say a big thank you Sound for all your help (and indeed everyone who has advised.) it's really very much appreciated. The world needs more people like you.
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post #733 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 08:51 AM
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Well Barack beat me out on the Nobel Prize, but that is very nice of you to say. You're welcome and I am glad to be of some help.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #734 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles Panizzi View Post

Thanks for the Anynet+ suggestion. I'm going to return the 1911 and get the 2311CI - I can always use the 2 extra HDMI inputs and 105 watts is closer to my old AVR-2807's 110 watts.

Curious: what sort of problems did you encounter with Anynet+?

Sorry for the late response, but my issues with Anynet+ had to do with using the Denon to just pass-through the signal using HDMI-Control when it was powered off. If I powered off the Denon while the TV was on, I had no problems and it continued to pass the signal as it should. However, if I then powered off the TV and then powered the TV back on, I would get a signal for a second and then none. It was as if the TV & Anynet+ was telling the Denon to switch its input/output. It was odd because the Denon would be powered off at the time. The only way to get it to work again would be to power the Denon on and then back off. Once I turned Anynet+ off on the TV the issue was resolved and the Denon passed the signal no matter what.

My goal was to control it all using one remote, but that proved futile with what I had. Once I got a Harmony, all my expectations were met, and more.
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post #735 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ejhayes76 View Post

There are other reports in this thread of iPhones with OS4 not working. Some have good luck, but the rest don't.

Blame Apple for changing something and not releasing the specs to other manufactures. When Denon designed these AVRs, there was no OS4 out.

I just found this article on iPhones with iOS4.0 and stereo connectivity. I was tired of everyone blaming Denon for Apple's error on the forums and Amazon reviews !!!

http://www.businessinsider.com/ios4-...rs-riot-2010-6

Apple's forum:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....70321&tstart=0
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post #736 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:19 PM
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The only thing ive noticed with dynamic eq is that it's boosting the lower end of the centre speaker more than I would prefer. Not sure if that's actually how it's meant to sound?

Also, what difference does audyssey flat do? Can't really tell.
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post #737 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:33 PM
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Dyn EQ will boost both the lower end as well as the surrounds, more so as you reduce the volume. To reduce this effect so as to get better dialog from the center speaker, use the Dyn EQ Reference Level Offset setting set to either 10 or 15.

From the Audyssey website:

The Flat setting uses the MultEQ filters in the same way as the Audyssey curve, but it does not apply a high frequency roll-off. This setting is appropriate for very small or highly treated rooms in which the listener is seated quite close to the loudspeakers.

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post #738 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Dyn EQ will boost both the lower end as well as the surrounds, more so as you reduce the volume. To reduce this effect so as to get better dialog from the center speaker, use the Dyn EQ Reference Level Offset setting set to either 10 or 15.

From the Audyssey website:

The Flat setting uses the MultEQ filters in the same way as the Audyssey curve, but it does not apply a high frequency roll-off. This setting is appropriate for very small or highly treated rooms in which the listener is seated quite close to the loudspeakers.

Yes that works. Are there any negative points for using the ref level offset?

Why does it boost the lower end with dynamic eq on?

Apologies for the questions!
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post #739 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:45 PM
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Not at all .. that's what it's designed for. Mostly used for watching TV and listening to music set to "10", and at "0" when watching movies.

It boosts it because that's the whole point of Dyn EQ. Read more on Dyn EQ here at the Audyssey website.

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post #740 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Not at all .. that's what it's designed for. Mostly used for watching TV and listening to music set to "10", and at "0" when watching movies.

It boosts it because that's the whole point of Dyn EQ. Read more on Dyn EQ here at the Audyssey website.

Many thanks. I'll have a read of that. FInal question, if I put it at +10 to compensate for low end boost will it affect anything else eh the rears?
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post #741 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 02:58 PM
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the offset affects everything about Dynamic EQ, so that means BOTH the EQ (it's not just bass BTW, but that's most of it) and the surrounds will not be boosted quite as much.

think of it as a "strength" switch for Dynamic EQ. The offset of 15 is the "weakest" boost, all the way up to 0 which is "full" boost. 0 is correct for movie sources, but any other source may need a bit of tweaking.

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post #742 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 03:02 PM
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You guys should work for audyssey-you've made it all understandable!

Final, final question (!!) I'm going to re run auto setup again. There are some pics of my room layout above. If you could be really speciic about where the mic should go for the six positions I'd be really grateful! (if you're ever in Newark in the uk I'll buy you a drink!)
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post #743 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 03:54 PM
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Reread posts #720 and #723.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Reread posts #720 and #723.

Done! But, and I knowing being inept, but I'm uncertain where positions 4, 5, and 6 should be. The first three are on a tripod on the couch, should the last three be at the same height but on the floor in front of the couch?

Much obliged to you
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post #745 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 04:22 PM
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Yes, about 2' in front of the 1st position.

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post #746 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, about 2' in front of the 1st position.

Why are those measurements used if no one is sat there? Just trying to understand the tech side of it all!
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post #747 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 04:44 PM
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Please spend some time reading the Audyssey FAQ.

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post #748 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 06:38 PM
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I have a 1911. I've been playing with the Restorer mode and Dynamic EQ reference levels on the USB/iPod input trying to tune in the bass to my liking.

My AVR came with the Restorer set to Mode 1 on the USB input, however the manual says Mode 3 is the default for the USB input.

I'm wondering if Mode 1 and Mode 3 are mixed up in the manual?

To my ears, Mode 3 has much more treble than Mode 1.
However, the manual seems to indicate that Mode 1 will expand treble more, whereas Mode 3 will leave it more neutral.

So based on my ears listening to 1 vs 3 and the fact that my unit came with Mode 1 as the default, I am thinking they are reversed in the manual?

Thoughts? I'm confused by the three modes.
The USB input is the one I'm having the hardest time dialing in to my liking.

EDIT: I don't think the modes are reversed in the manual. Mine just somehow got set to mode '1' initially.

Question for those that know. Is it mainly the treble processing that is different among the three modes?

What do others set their RSTR and DEQ to for the USB?
Thanks
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post #749 of 5060 Old 08-03-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi. Reading batpig's guide Audyssey section and following the Audyssey setup guide is a great way to understand Audyssey, an important feature of your AVR. Do not reset the sub "distance" lower, as it is actually measuring acoustic delay. As you did, skip the polarity warning after confirming you're wired correctly (just once will do). If you like, post all your values (level, xovers) for review here. We recommend raising all xovers to 80 as a start.

As to Pure Direct/Direct,yes those apply "minimal" processing but let's be clear, it is all processed, so none of it is "Pure". The funny part is that the additional Audyssey processing is exactly what makes it sound so much better, particularly if you do not have very expensive speakers in an acoustically treated room. I would say that for most of us, Direct/Pure Direct is actually INADEQUATE processing. The reason Audyssey sounds "sweeter" is that it has optimized the processing for your room and speakers. And when you enable DEQ, it further optimizes the sound for the volume you're listening at. For ex., so that the natural psychacoustic effect of the bass sounding weaker and weaker as you turn it down is adjusted for, so it sounds full and rich, as it should. The Audyssey website and AVS Audyssey thread are great sources of info on this breakthru state of the art technology.

Yes, the Std button keeps you away from weird Denon DSP modes. I do not use those nor Dir/PureDir. And I always have Audyssey ON as EQ and DEQ ON (the red light) as the mode. You will find DEQ needs no adjustment for standard film sountracks but often needs to be adjusted for other, non-standardized sources such as TV and CD's, with the reference level offset. Or if you want to turn it off, you have all the options, as you listed. DVol does not enhance the overall SQ as DEQ does, rather it is dynamic compression, which evens out the loud and soft parts for your listening convenience. I use it as needed, for ex., for commercial TV to tone down commercials, in mild (Day) or medium (Eve) mode, but never when wanting to enjoy the full effect of music or film.

As to your last question, yes the distance measurements and crossovers are applied automatically to all modes as a default after autosetup, even when Audyssey is off. With Audyssey off you can also select Manual EQ which has a basic basic graphic EQ and you can select "base curve copy" which applies a very coarse, approximate version of the Audyssey EQ to the graphic EQ for you.

Thanks, I will change the distance setting back to what it was. I will try tonight to make a note of the settings so you and others can take a look. I do appreciate the offer.

Regarding 2 channel sound from CD or PCM from DVD. Is there a way to get the CD set to MultiEQ but only 2 speakers? I noticed it defaults to all the speakers when you have that option enabled. As the music was mixed to 2 channel i would like it to be left with that, but with the bonus of the balanced speakers from Audyssey...

Thanks
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post #750 of 5060 Old 08-04-2010, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewonderer View Post

...Regarding 2 channel sound from CD or PCM from DVD. Is there a way to get the CD set to MultiEQ but only 2 speakers? I noticed it defaults to all the speakers when you have that option enabled...

That's right, see OM p 28, 30. Rarely do I want to process 2 Ch music off a CD into more than 2.1. So in that case press the D/St remote button to select Stereo mode. Once you have selected Stereo, the next time that same signal is recognized on that input, "Personal memory Plus" will remember your preference and switch it to Stereo automatically. BTW Stereo mode also allows for some seperate custom settings, but you probably need not bother. As I use my sub to augment my FR/L towers even in Stereo mode and maintain an 80 Hz xover at all times, I don't have to bother with that and it sounds great.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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