*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 391 / 591 / 1611 Owner's Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JsXtreme01 View Post

Digital Output - Bitstream (Audiophile), PCM Down Sampling - OFF and Dynamic Compresion - OFF.

What do you guys think? Are those the best options?

Whether you select "bitstream" or "PCM" is a personal choice as they will both provide the same audio fidelity. You'll likely need to change to PCM or turn secondary audio ON in order to play the special features.

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post #302 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 11:02 AM
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It looks like resetting the 591 fixed my problem with the sat/cbl input not working. I hunted through the menus and could not find anywhere that it had been changed. I guess I will purchase a digital audio cable to connect to my tv to fix my other issue. Thanks for your help guys.
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post #303 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 11:47 AM
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I have a question regarding my 4.0 system. I have 2 sets of full range bookshelves. (RTi6 and RTi4). No center and no sub.

I need to rerun the Audyssey program again tonight (I'm getting the RTi6's today), and then plan on manually overriding Audyssey to set the rears as Large. After I do this, is there anything I can/should/need to do regarding crossovers for the speakers? Or does "Large" mean it will get the full range and you can't do anything?

How does it work with 4 full range, nearly identical speakers? Basically, I want to make sure I send as much bass frequencies to the speakers as they can safely handle so I can keep from having to buy a sub (apartment).

Specs on the speakers:

Overall Frequency Response 40Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 50Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 2.8kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass

AND

Overall Frequency Response 50Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 60Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 1.9kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass


Here's why I'm confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batpig's website View Post

Next, you need to specify the cut-off frequency for bass management by entering the CROSSOVER FREQUENCY menu. Scroll to the left or right to cycle through the various options. This is the frequency at which the receiver will start cutting off the bass from your speakers, and instead send it to the dedicated subwoofer (or fronts if you have no subwoofer).

I want to set that bottom crossover to something the speakers can handle, like 40 or 50 or 60 or whatever, but redirect it NOWHERE, not to the Fronts.


I'm not sitting in front of my receiver now... but it sounds like the Fronts HAVE to be set to Large if there is no subwoofer. Can you set a low pass crossover to a Large speaker? I don't want to overdrive my fronts with frequencies they can't reproduce. Same for the rears. Maybe I can trick the receiver by setting subwoofer to 'Yes'? Then set fronts and rears to Small? Now I'm reading that if I make manual changes I can't use Dynamic Volume or other Audyssey settings.
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post #304 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Whether you select "bitstream" or "PCM" is a personal choice as they will both provide the same audio fidelity. You'll likely need to change to PCM or turn secondary audio ON in order to play the special features.

Sounds good. If I understand correctly, if I have the BD set to PCM, the receiver won't display TrueHD and so on, but if I set the BD to Bitstream, the receiver will show TrueHD and so on? But either way, I am getting True HD or DTS-HD right?

And I checked, my BD player can decode True HD and DTS-HD.

Sorry for the newbish questions...It has been many years since I have gotten involved with home stereo equipment.

Also, I just encountered a problem. I hooked the BD, Xbox, Comcast HD DVR into the 591 by HDMI and then HDMI to my LN52B750. Well, I still get audio and video from the Comcast HD DVR box, but it flashes "du1 or dui". I called Comcast and they said I need to update my box. However, I never had that issue when I directly plugged the DVR into the TV directly. Is this new issue a handshake issue between the DVR and 591? Any help is appreciated and thank you in advance.
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post #305 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 02:00 PM
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Correct. Either the BD or the AVR can decode the HD audio. Either way, you'll still hear the same HD audio through your speakers. When the BD does it, you'll see MULT CH IN on the AVR display.

Cable boxes were designed to be connected directly to the TV and therefore generally work flawlessly when connected. Many were not HDCP certified to be connected to an HDMI repeater (ie AVR) and therefore can have HDMI handshake issues. At the very least you want to ensure the cable box has the most current firmware installed. Then try the other HDMI jacks on the AVR before resorting to the work around of HDMI to the TV w/optical from the cable box to the AVR.

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post #306 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
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I'm a bit confused as to which to choose for watching DirecTV HD programming in surround sound.

I have the DirecTV connected to the receiver. The receiver will show Dolby Digital.

I can also change it to Multi Channel Stereo. Which setting is correct for surround sound programming for DirecTV?
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post #307 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 03:49 PM
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Dolby Digital is the best mode. It is 5 discrete channels plus the sub for low frequencies. Usually the HD broadcast is DD 5.1 but on occasion DD 2.0.

Multichannel stereo is two channel stereo remixed into 5 or 7 channels. Not as good.

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post #308 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Dolby Digital is the best mode. It is 5 discrete channels plus the sub for low frequencies. Usually the broadcast is DD 5.1 but on occasion DD 2.0.

Multichannel stereo is two channel stereo remixed into 5 or 7 channels. Not as good.

Okay cool. Thanks for the quick reply.
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post #309 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Either the BD or the AVR can decode the HD audio. Either way, you'll still hear the same HD audio through your speakers. When the BD does it, you'll see MULT CH IN on the AVR display.

Cable boxes were designed to be connected directly to the TV and therefore generally work flawlessly when connected. Many were not HDCP certified to be connected to an HDMI repeater (ie AVR) and therefore can have HDMI handshake issues. At the very least you want to ensure the cable box has the most current firmware installed. Then try the other HDMI jacks on the AVR before resorting to the work around of HDMI to the TV w/optical from the cable box to the AVR.


Thank you again for the great responses. I will definitely check those connections and firmware when I get home. But, if I do have to wire directly back into the TV and run an opitcal cable, I shouldn't notice a difference on the TV sound right?
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post #310 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 04:16 PM
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Correct. The best audio a cable box can do is DD 5.1.

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post #311 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 09:16 PM
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Here's a question...

what volume do you guys have to get your receiver to for a comfortable listening volume?

I'm sitting right now at 11pm, it's quiet, dynamic volume is off, and I have to get it to -20 before I'm comfortable and can hear the whole dynamic range of the music. This is a FRESH audyssey run. Just re ran it. I just feel that's pretty high for such a casual listening time. I'm playing music through the xbox 360, if that matters.

What's the max relative volume you can go to?
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post #312 of 4599 Old 07-29-2010, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdameron View Post

Here's a question...

what volume do you guys have to get your receiver to for a comfortable listening volume?

I'm sitting right now at 11pm, it's quiet, dynamic volume is off, and I have to get it to -20 before I'm comfortable and can hear the whole dynamic range of the music. This is a FRESH audyssey run. Just re ran it. I just feel that's pretty high for such a casual listening time. I'm playing music through the xbox 360, if that matters.

What's the max relative volume you can go to?

Do you have Dynamic EQ on?
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post #313 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdameron View Post

What's the max relative volume you can go to?

The max "relative" volume is +18, although you should probably consider 0 as the highest volume as there's not going to be any real change in volume above 0 rather only a huge power draw.

Average volume is generally -30 to -20, although IRRC a few xBox posters have noted having to raise the volume higher than for their other sources.

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post #314 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejhayes76 View Post

Do you have Dynamic EQ on?

Dynamic EQ was on, dynamic volume was off. Turns out turning on dynamic volume fixed it... but I don't like the idea of so many things touching the music before it comes out the speakers. Oh well.
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post #315 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdameron View Post

I have a question regarding my 4.0 system. I have 2 sets of full range bookshelves. (RTi6 and RTi4). No center and no sub.

I need to rerun the Audyssey program again tonight (I'm getting the RTi6's today), and then plan on manually overriding Audyssey to set the rears as Large. After I do this, is there anything I can/should/need to do regarding crossovers for the speakers? Or does "Large" mean it will get the full range and you can't do anything?

How does it work with 4 full range, nearly identical speakers? Basically, I want to make sure I send as much bass frequencies to the speakers as they can safely handle so I can keep from having to buy a sub (apartment).

Specs on the speakers:

Overall Frequency Response 40Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 50Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 2.8kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass

AND

Overall Frequency Response 50Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 60Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 1.9kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass


Here's why I'm confused:


I want to set that bottom crossover to something the speakers can handle, like 40 or 50 or 60 or whatever, but redirect it NOWHERE, not to the Fronts.


I'm not sitting in front of my receiver now... but it sounds like the Fronts HAVE to be set to Large if there is no subwoofer. Can you set a low pass crossover to a Large speaker? I don't want to overdrive my fronts with frequencies they can't reproduce. Same for the rears. Maybe I can trick the receiver by setting subwoofer to 'Yes'? Then set fronts and rears to Small? Now I'm reading that if I make manual changes I can't use Dynamic Volume or other Audyssey settings.


I answered my own questions last night.

Yes, you can turn subwoofer on without having a subwoofer connected... then you can turn your fronts to small and set a low pass crossover. I didn't like the way this sounded. If the speakers are set to Large, you cannot specify a crossover.

I hooked my new RTi6s up to the front, shuffled the RTi4s to the rear and then re-ran Audyssey. I was surprised to see that Audyssey registered the rears as Large. So far it sounds really good, but I get my next Netflix blu ray tonight so that will be the real test. I was thoroughly impressed with the RTi4s and the Denon with Avatar though, for sure.
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post #316 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 10:31 AM
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Does anyone have the Denon 591 iPod dock? Will any dock work or best to use the Denon?
Thanks.
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post #317 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tntechbug View Post

Does anyone have the Denon 591 iPod dock? Will any dock work or best to use the Denon?
Thanks.

Any dock will work. If you use the Denon, then you can control the iPod (that's what the separate iPod control wire is for). If you have another dock with a remote, or are happy getting up and pushing the iPod to change songs, etc, then you don't have to buy the pricey Denon dock.

Do you have a 591 already? I found for not much more than the price of the Denon dock, I could step up to the 791, which has USB built in.

I ended up getting a 1911 (same as the 791 for USB support). The iPod USB works great and because you bypass the iPods D/A processor, it sounds great - better than I thought mp3s could.
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post #318 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 10:54 AM
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You can use any dock with the 591. However, using a Denon ipod dock will allow you to use the Denon remote with the dock. Although as bp usually suggests, before spending money on any dock, consider an AppleTV first.

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post #319 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 10:55 AM
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Thanks for this info.
I do have the 591 and like it.
Do either of you use a dock with your Denon?
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post #320 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tntechbug View Post

Thanks for this info.
I do have the 591 and like it.
Do either of you use a dock with your Denon?

No, I use the USB port on my 1911 for my iPod.

I was originally eying the Denon 1611 as my new AVR. However, the cost of the Denon iPod dock and AVR 1611 verses the cost of the AVR 791 with iPod support built in pushed me towards the 791. There was less than $100 difference between the two AVRs (before accounting for the Denon iPod dock). The best price I found on the Denon dock was $60. So, for about $40 more than the 1611 and iPod dock, I could get the 791. The 791 has a few features that make spending $40 more an easy choice (more power, more analog inputs, etc). However, in the end, I got too good a price on the 1911 from Electronics Expo (they don't carry the 791, only the 1911).

Since you already have the 591, I would just get the Denon dock.

IMHO, for others that want to use iPods with Denon AVRs, I would suggest getting the 791 or higher model.
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post #321 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 01:40 PM
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Any decent deals on the 591? This is the last piece of equipment I need in my new set up, and it's still MSRP everywhere.
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post #322 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 01:43 PM
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I am upgrading to a 3d TV so need to upgrade my AVR. I have narrowed it down to either the AVR-591, AVR-791 or AVR-891.
  1. I never watch SD content. Is the up-scaling on the 791 or 891 worth it if I never watch SD content anyways?

  2. I currently live in a condo and have Athena Micra 6 speakers, I believe that 75 watts would be good enough for these speakers, but I eventually would like to upgrade my speakers when I purchase a home next year. I normally don't like jacking up the volume to insane levels. I really don't know how to gauge if 75 watts will be enough or if I should jump up to the 791 or 891 for the extra power. Any tips or advice?
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post #323 of 4599 Old 07-30-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laron View Post

Any decent deals on the 591? This is the last piece of equipment I need in my new set up, and it's still MSRP everywhere.

Buy the 1611 at Electronics Expo next time they have a coupon code. You should be able to get it for about $320ish. They only carry the xx11 models, not the x91 models, so no 591.

Edit: use code 'LSDA0712' at EE and the price is $310. I just checked this out in my shopping cart.
http://www.electronics-expo.com
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post #324 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 12:23 AM
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Hey guys I'm in need of some serious help. I consider myself to be a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to Home Theater but this unit has me completely baffled. I recently upgraded my TV by picking up one of the new Sony 3D TV's. So I decided to upgrade my receiver aswell. After doing some research I decided on the AVR-591. Well I picked one up today and have had nothing but issues. I can't get audio OR video out of any of my components other than my Blu-Ray player (Samsung BD-C6800) and its only giving me video. I can't get any audio out of it whatsoever. I have all my components (Cable Box, PS3, 360, Blu-Ray) hooked up through HDMI. I tried to complete the Audyssey setup and I can't even get the on screen menus to show on my TV. I've tried resetting the unit, I've tried switching around my cables and Absolutely nothing works. Is there anyone with any sort of suggestions on how I can get this thing up and running correctly? Or did I just happen to pick up a lemon?
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post #325 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdameron View Post

I have a question regarding my 4.0 system. I have 2 sets of full range bookshelves. (RTi6 and RTi4). No center and no sub.

I need to rerun the Audyssey program again tonight (I'm getting the RTi6's today), and then plan on manually overriding Audyssey to set the rears as Large. After I do this, is there anything I can/should/need to do regarding crossovers for the speakers? Or does "Large" mean it will get the full range and you can't do anything?

How does it work with 4 full range, nearly identical speakers? Basically, I want to make sure I send as much bass frequencies to the speakers as they can safely handle so I can keep from having to buy a sub (apartment).

Specs on the speakers:

Overall Frequency Response 40Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 50Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 2.8kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass

AND

Overall Frequency Response 50Hz-27kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 60Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 26kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 20-125 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB
Crossover 1.9kHz, 12dB/octave high and low pass


Here's why I'm confused:


I want to set that bottom crossover to something the speakers can handle, like 40 or 50 or 60 or whatever, but redirect it NOWHERE, not to the Fronts.


I'm not sitting in front of my receiver now... but it sounds like the Fronts HAVE to be set to Large if there is no subwoofer. Can you set a low pass crossover to a Large speaker? I don't want to overdrive my fronts with frequencies they can't reproduce. Same for the rears. Maybe I can trick the receiver by setting subwoofer to 'Yes'? Then set fronts and rears to Small? Now I'm reading that if I make manual changes I can't use Dynamic Volume or other Audyssey settings.

The Crossover Frequency option won't appear in the menu if all of your speakers are set to Large. Large speakers always run full range, that's what Large means. All you need to do is set your fronts and rears to Small and set the crossover for each pair to the lower limit of its frequency response. You probably won't even have to enable the subwoofer.
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post #326 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSimmons1987 View Post

Hey guys I'm in need of some serious help. I consider myself to be a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to Home Theater but this unit has me completely baffled. I recently upgraded my TV by picking up one of the new Sony 3D TV's. So I decided to upgrade my receiver aswell. After doing some research I decided on the AVR-591. Well I picked one up today and have had nothing but issues. I can't get audio OR video out of any of my components other than my Blu-Ray player (Samsung BD-C6800) and its only giving me video. I can't get any audio out of it whatsoever. I have all my components (Cable Box, PS3, 360, Blu-Ray) hooked up through HDMI. I tried to complete the Audyssey setup and I can't even get the on screen menus to show on my TV. I've tried resetting the unit, I've tried switching around my cables and Absolutely nothing works. Is there anyone with any sort of suggestions on how I can get this thing up and running correctly? Or did I just happen to pick up a lemon?

First, make sure you don't have a HDMI handshake problem. Unplug all your HDMI components including the receiver and plug them back in after 10 seconds or so. Then, turn the Receiver and TV on and set the TV to whatever HDMI input the receiver is plugged into (set the receiver source to anything but TV). Press AMP then MENU on the receiver remote and you should get the menu and be able to run Audyssey. If you get sound there, you know the receiver is OK.

Second thing, make sure your TV is set to use an external receiver rather than its own speakers, and that the audio output of your Blu-ray player is set to "Bitstream (Audiophile)". Also, on the receiver, go to Manual Setup, HDMI Setup, and make sure HDMI Audio Out is set to Amp.
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post #327 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 01:19 AM
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First, make sure you don't have a HDMI handshake problem. Unplug all your HDMI components including the receiver and plug them back in after 10 seconds or so. Then, turn the Receiver and TV on and set the TV to whatever HDMI input the receiver is plugged into (set the receiver source to anything but TV). Press AMP then MENU on the receiver remote and you should get the menu and be able to run Audyssey. If you get sound there, you know the receiver is OK.

Second thing, make sure your TV is set to use an external receiver rather than its own speakers, and that the audio output of your Blu-ray player is set to "Bitstream (Audiophile)". Also, on the receiver, go to Manual Setup, HDMI Setup, and make sure HDMI Audio Out is set to Amp.

I was able to do the Audyssey setup but I did it using the screen on the receiver, not on my tv. All my speakers checked out fine. But I still can't get any video or audio from any of my HDMI sources besides my Blu-Ray player and even that only gives me video. Could I need to upgrade my cables. I bought 2 new 1.4 cables to go from the Blu-Ray to the amp and from the amp to the tv but the rest of my HDMI cables are 1.3. The 1.4 cable is the only one giving me video at the moment....

EDIT: Tried the rest of your suggestions...still the exact same issues. What baffles me the most is the on screen menu won't even show. To my knowledge I have everything setup and plugged in correctly. Just for some reason I'm not getting any results. It's gonna suck boxing this thing up and taking it back to the store. Maybe I'll try out the comparable Pioneer or Onkyo model.
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post #328 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by GSimmons1987 View Post

I was able to do the Audyssey setup but I did it using the screen on the receiver, not on my tv. All my speakers checked out fine. But I still can't get any video or audio from any of my HDMI sources besides my Blu-Ray player and even that only gives me video. Could I need to upgrade my cables. I bought 2 new 1.4 cables to go from the Blu-Ray to the amp and from the amp to the tv but the rest of my HDMI cables are 1.3. The 1.4 cable is the only one giving me video at the moment....

EDIT: Tried the rest of your suggestions...still the exact same issues. What baffles me the most is the on screen menu won't even show. To my knowledge I have everything setup and plugged in correctly. Just for some reason I'm not getting any results. It's gonna suck boxing this thing up and taking it back to the store. Maybe I'll try out the comparable Pioneer or Onkyo model.

It does sound like you may have a HDMI cable problem. I use and recommend these: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Try them before you return the receiver. You should be buying all your cables from either Monoprice or Blue Jeans Cable.
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post #329 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 04:18 AM
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All you need to do is set your fronts and rears to Small and set the crossover for each pair to the lower limit of its frequency response. You probably won't even have to enable the subwoofer.

With Denon AVRs, the front mains cannot be set to SMALL when there is no subwoofer. And after running AUTO SETUP, if the sub is set to YES in order to set the front mains to SMALL, then Audyssey willl be disabled. Considering the speakers are almost identical, it's ok for the OP to run all speakers LARGE until a sub is introduced to the setup.

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post #330 of 4599 Old 07-31-2010, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by GSimmons1987 View Post

Could I need to upgrade my cables. I bought 2 new 1.4 cables to go from the Blu-Ray to the amp and from the amp to the tv but the rest of my HDMI cables are 1.3. The 1.4 cable is the only one giving me video at the moment....

There's no such thing as an HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 cable (it's just a marketing gimmick). The same cables you currently have should also work with your new HDMI 1.4 AVR. If you have tried connecting the sources directly to your TV and they all work, then there's likely nothing wrong with the cables. If you used the "reset the micprocessor" procedure listed in the manual, letting the front panel display flash for at least 4-5 seconds before releasing the buttons, then it's likely the AVR is defective and should be returned. When making HDMI connections to the AVR right out of the box (or especially after running the reset procedure), it should be as easy as "plug-n-play".

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