*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 391 / 591 / 1611 Owner's Thread - Page 141 - AVS Forum
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post #4201 of 4612 Old 03-18-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abuhafsa View Post


Thanks jdsmoothie for the suggestion. I'll give that a try, but I'm surprised that this wouldn't cause any degradation from DTS-MA.

DTS-MA = lossless compression
PCM = uncompressed

DTS-MA and TrueHD are used in favor of PCM on media because they reduce the amount of space needed to store the soundtrack on the disc without any loss in audio quality, allowing producers to use that space for higher quality video and/or more content.

When you set your player to send Multi channel PCM, your player decodes the compressed audio and sends the uncompressed bits to your AVR. With bitstream, the AVR decodes the compressed signal encoded on the disc and plays back the uncompressed bits. So in either case it should be the same bits getting sent to your speakers.
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post #4202 of 4612 Old 03-18-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post


DTS-MA = lossless compression
PCM = uncompressed

DTS-MA and TrueHD are used in favor of PCM on media because they reduce the amount of space needed to store the soundtrack on the disc without any loss in audio quality, allowing producers to use that space for higher quality video and/or more content.

When you set your player to send Multi channel PCM, your player decodes the compressed audio and sends the uncompressed bits to your AVR. With bitstream, the AVR decodes the compressed signal encoded on the disc and plays back the uncompressed bits. So in either case it should be the same bits getting sent to your speakers.

Found this on Wikipedia:

DTS-HD Master Audio may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support[5]:

Over 6, 7 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6-, 7- or 8-channel linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver.


The last paragraph is interesting. Does this mean I need a 1.3 hdmi cable for proper decoding by the avr when the bd sends as primary pass through? I currently have 1.2a cables.
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post #4203 of 4612 Old 03-18-2012, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abuhafsa View Post


Found this on Wikipedia:

DTS-HD Master Audio may be transported to AV receivers in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channels, at lossless quality, in one of three ways depending on player and/or receiver support[5]:

Over 6, 7 or 8 RCA connectors as analog audio, using the player's internal decoder and digital-to-analog converter (DAC).
Over HDMI 1.1 (or higher) connections as 6-, 7- or 8-channel linear PCM, using the player's decoder and the AV receiver's DAC.
Over HDMI 1.3 (or higher) connections as the original DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream, with decoding and DAC both done by the AV receiver.

The last paragraph is interesting. Does this mean I need a 1.3 hdmi cable for proper decoding by the avr when the bd sends as primary pass through? I currently have 1.2a cables.

No, it does not mean that. It's for devices, not cables, that different versions of HDMI stabdards matter.

Here is another Wikipedia quote for you:

"HDMI devices are manufactured to adhere to various versions of the specification, in which each version is given a number and/or letter, such as 1.0, 1.2, or 1.4b.[2] Each subsequent version of the specification uses the same kind of cable but increases the bandwidth and/or capabilities of what can be transmitted over the cable.[2] "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI_cables
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post #4204 of 4612 Old 03-19-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abuhafsa View Post

Thanks jdsmoothie for the suggestion. I'll give that a try, but I'm surprised that this wouldn't cause any degradation from DTS-MA.

The process is no different than "unzipping" a PC file .. the original uncompressed "lossless" file remains the same, doesn't matter which devices does the uncompressing.

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post #4205 of 4612 Old 03-26-2012, 08:24 AM
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Hey guys I have a topic posted elsewhere just wanted to see if there were any experts on the Denon 391 that could head over and weigh in. I bought it before I read this topic and am faced with some serious HT questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1401677
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post #4206 of 4612 Old 03-27-2012, 06:00 AM
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^^
As noted, the 391 was not a good choice for your current setup because it does not feature Audyssey. Review the various models compared in post #2 of the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig as you definitely will want to upgrade the AVR to one with Audyssey (i.e all but 1312). Although, the new XX13 models are due to be announced next month so you might as well wait to see what they will offer before replacing the 391.

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post #4207 of 4612 Old 03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abuhafsa View Post

Thanks jdsmoothie for the suggestion. I'll give that a try, but I'm surprised that this wouldn't cause any degradation from DTS-MA.

The player will decode the audio instead of the AVR. Both employ the same algorithm, so there's no difference in audio quality.
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post #4208 of 4612 Old 03-31-2012, 10:56 PM
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Is there anyway to tell what the dialnorm value is with the 1611? Tried looking in source level but couldn't find anything

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4209 of 4612 Old 04-01-2012, 03:35 AM
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^^
It's embedded in each DD audio track and is going to change from track to track, although is generally listed on the front panel display when the track is first starting to play.

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post #4210 of 4612 Old 04-01-2012, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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you can always check the offset value of the current track by going into the OSD and then checking AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL in the INFORMATION menu.

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post #4211 of 4612 Old 04-01-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you can always check the offset value of the current track by going into the OSD and then checking AUDIO INPUT SIGNAL in the INFORMATION menu.

I checked known blurays with dial norm and it shows nothing. The info that is give is 3/2/.1 48 and thats about it

EDIT: odd nevermind. the dvd version has it than i guess

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4212 of 4612 Old 04-01-2012, 04:33 PM
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Hey guys, Hope everyone is well! I'm having an issue with my Denon 591 yet again. I thought I had worked around the screen tearing problem I was experiencing with my DirecTV though the Denon 591 just a few short months ago but now I'm seeing this tearing from multiple sources, including my PS3 while watching movies. This was only happening through the DTV HD DVR at one point, but while I was watching a DVD I noticed it yet again. None of this video tear happens when everything is directly connected to the television. I've already sent the receiver into one of Denon's repair centers for service and they replaced the HDMI board then sent it back.

What could this be? Would you bother trying to send it back in for service yet again? Maybe this is an incompatibility with my LG PK540 TV? I've hooked up the sources and Denon 591 to a different, albeit much smaller TV (25 inch 1080P LCD) and didn't see the tearing there in a back and forth comparison. That's why I'm thinking it might be a compatibility issue with the HDMI handshaking between the TV and the AVR, but that's kinda why I bought the unit.

What do you guys think? Any ideas?
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post #4213 of 4612 Old 04-04-2012, 09:00 PM
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I am having problems with audio dropouts on some cable channels. I have a Tivo Premiere connected to a AVR-591 via component video and optical digital audio.

I originally thought it was something with my cable card as the dropouts only happened on certain channels (e.g. HBO). I had the Time Warner cable guy out here and he said there was nothing wrong; of course. He suggested I connect the Tivo directly to my TV and voila, no dropouts. (I used the same recording as a test.) I was also using an HDMI cable at this point. I've been trying to monitor this thread and had read about all the HDMI handshake problems, so I removed the HDMI entirely and connected the component/optical. But I still have the same problem?!

If I switch the Tivo audio from 'Dolby Digital' to 'Dolby Digital to PCM' then the dropouts stop, but I also lose surround-sound.

Is this a Tivo problem rather than a Denon problem?
____________

Also, and presumably unrelated, my 591 has started to use the screensaver even though it's turned off. I've tried turning it on (no change), then back off again, but it's still doing it. Does this mean I need to do the processor reset? If so, do I need to recreate all my settings?
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post #4214 of 4612 Old 04-05-2012, 02:27 AM
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^^
It's likely a TiVo issue, although if you experienced no dropouts with HDMI directly to the TV (which is the recommended configuration when experiencing HDMI handshake issues with the HDMI connected to the AVR), why would you change that configuration?

Re: Screensaver - try cycling the AVR OFF for a few minutes after making the setting change. If you try the microprocessor reset, it will indeed reset all settings to their factory defaults and require you to run Audyssey again.

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post #4215 of 4612 Old 04-05-2012, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkonfuzion View Post

Hey guys, Hope everyone is well! I'm having an issue with my Denon 591 yet again. I thought I had worked around the screen tearing problem I was experiencing with my DirecTV though the Denon 591 just a few short months ago but now I'm seeing this tearing from multiple sources, including my PS3 while watching movies. This was only happening through the DTV HD DVR at one point, but while I was watching a DVD I noticed it yet again. None of this video tear happens when everything is directly connected to the television. I've already sent the receiver into one of Denon's repair centers for service and they replaced the HDMI board then sent it back.

What could this be? Would you bother trying to send it back in for service yet again? Maybe this is an incompatibility with my LG PK540 TV? I've hooked up the sources and Denon 591 to a different, albeit much smaller TV (25 inch 1080P LCD) and didn't see the tearing there in a back and forth comparison. That's why I'm thinking it might be a compatibility issue with the HDMI handshaking between the TV and the AVR, but that's kinda why I bought the unit.

What do you guys think? Any ideas?

Did the repair facility confirm the "screen tearing" issue or did they just simply replace the HDMI board? If the issue was resolved upon return from the repair facility using the LG TV, then it's likely something has gone bad in the Denon again and needs repair.

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post #4216 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 01:09 PM
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Hello--

Thanks to this thread I have fully enjoyed my AVR-591 for over a year, and love it.

I just bought a new Plasma TV and had a new question dealing with HDMI Control/ARC.

I bought a Panasonic ST50 and it comes with Netflix and Amazon VOD (among others). The ST50 has an ARC HDMI port. I disabled Viera Link and set up HDMI control within the AVR-591. I had to disable Viera Link in order for the ARC to work.

Everything is working fine. I can use the TV's audio when receiver is off.

My question is since my AVR-591 has HDMI Control On and my Panasonic has an ARC HDMI, is it possible for me to have a configuration where the TV sends the audio from Amazon VOD or Netflix to the AVR-591 so that I can enjoy full sound from my home theater when using these apps?

As it is now, I can only get the audio from the TV apps to play through the TV speakers. Any ideas? I do have an optical audio out on the TV but I only have one optical on the 591 that is already taken. I am trying to find out if I can have the audio from the TV apps sent through the ARC HDMI so that I can hear that audio through my home theater an not the TV speakers. is this doable?
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post #4217 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 01:31 PM
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^^
Yup. Perhaps you misunderstand what ARC is .... it passes audio back to the AVR from the TV over the HDMI cable that connects the AVR to the TV. In order to enable ARC on the TV, set VieraLink to ON and audio to "Home speakers".

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post #4218 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 03:14 PM
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Thanks JD Smoothie. Yes, I am a little fuzzy on ARC.

It's weird though, when I have HDMI Control set to On and Viera Link set to on, one of my inputs does not work. I have an optical cable from HTPC and a component cable from my DVR. I use this to listen to music from my computer while watching TV. When I set Viera link to On, the music no longer comes out. When I turn Viera link off, then I am able to play music from the optical/component input. I will play with the Viera link when i get home tonight, but do you know why I am not getting sound on my optical/component input when Viera link is set to on?
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post #4219 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 03:17 PM
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^^
HDMI Control enabled on the TV or AVR can indeed cause issues which is why some folks simply connect an optical cable from the TV to the AVR for the TV smart apps (Netflix, Pandora, OTA, etc.) and then disable VieraLink. If you currently have the optical using the default source name "TV", then when you enable VieraLink, the AVR thinks you want to use ARC to pass audio from the TV back to the AVR (TV input). Try reassigning it another source name that isn't currently be used.

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Unfortunately, my optical input is taken by my optical out on HTPC.

Do you know why HDMI Control On/Viera Link On would mess with the sound on my component/optical input when they are completely separate? If I toggle Viera Link off and on I will get sound when it is off, and then I won't get sound when Viera link is on. If ind that odd since the optical is tied to my computer and the component tied to my Motorolal DVR--both have nothing to do with the Viera Link on my TV. Very confusing.

I will play with it tonight--see If I am able to get it working.

I may just get a Roku and hook that up via HDMI to AVR-591--but I'd prefer just using the apps through the TV--if I can get the audio played through my AVR without is messing up my component/optical input.
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post #4221 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 03:28 PM
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^^
You can add an optical switch to add more inputs ...

http://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Optica.../dp/B001OBTT0Q

Also, if you still have the optical input for the HTPC assigned to the default source "TV", then reread my previous post.

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Wow--that optical switcher is awesome--thank you. That may be what i end up doing if IO cannot sort out the HDMI Control/Viera Link conflicts.

and yes, I re-read your previous post. and now it makes sense. It will try re-assigning the source to see if that works.

Thanks so much--your info is so helpful.
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post #4223 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
You can add an optical switch to add more inputs ...

http://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Optica.../dp/B001OBTT0Q

Also, if you still have the optical input for the HTPC assigned to the default source "TV", then reread my previous post.

The cheap ones are iffy little things. Used a few and had a hard time getting them to work.

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4224 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 03:49 PM
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I found one on Monoprice that has good reviews. Looks like the same one JDSmoothie linked to on amazon. I trust Monoprice quality so I will probably get it from them.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #4225 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 05:45 PM
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quick question about the 1611. after using the mic for calibration, do i choose multiEQ manual, or multiEQ audessy?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalDistortion View Post

quick question about the 1611. after using the mic for calibration, do i choose multiEQ manual, or multiEQ audessy?

Audy

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #4227 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 05:53 PM
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Audy

wow that was fast. Thank you!!!
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post #4228 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 06:55 PM
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sorry guys another question. i turned my sub volume to the 10 o'clock mark. after audessey, i checked the channel levels and the sub was at -6.5.

If i wanted to turn down the sub, should i go more negative, or towards positive?
for example is +6.5 lower than -6.5? is this the same for all channels?

thanks
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post #4229 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalDistortion View Post

sorry guys another question. i turned my sub volume to the 10 o'clock mark. after audessey, i checked the channel levels and the sub was at -6.5.

If i wanted to turn down the sub, should i go more negative, or towards positive?
for example is +6.5 lower than -6.5? is this the same for all channels?

thanks

Go negative. Same for channels. Try turning the gain on the sub down a bit and run audy again. Your avr is trying to lower the sub (-6.5db).

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post #4230 of 4612 Old 04-09-2012, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalDistortion View Post

sorry guys another question. i turned my sub volume to the 10 o'clock mark. after audessey, i checked the channel levels and the sub was at -6.5.

If i wanted to turn down the sub, should i go more negative, or towards positive?
for example is +6.5 lower than -6.5? is this the same for all channels?

thanks

Go more negative, the negative below 0db relative to reference. Same for all channels but if you adjust all channels it has the same effect as just turning the master volume lower. Going positive you will be running your sub hot compared to other channels.

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