*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 391 / 591 / 1611 Owner's Thread - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by welshiv View Post

[...] Everything's working fine, except no sound on the Mac Mini. I'm using HDMI for all the connections, and a single HDMI to the TV. On the Mac Mini, I use a DVI to HDMI connector, so there is no audio coming through that connection, so I use an optical audio cable. On the Onkyo, I simply assigned video to the HDMI connection and audio to the optical. On the Denon, I tried doing the same, using Assign Input and using the Mac Mini on the "Game" connection, so I could assign Optical to Game, but still no sound. [...]

Hi welshiv, I was able to duplicate your results: no sound on Game when both an HDMI and optical source were connected. However, I was able to get sound from the optical input by changing Input Mode from Auto to Digital (Digital refers to the optical input). The instructions aren't clear but I think this change affects only the current input source (Game in this case). May be worth a try.
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post #1202 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 12:33 PM
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Hi. OK, I take it you have checked the Volume limit is off. The Denon nomenclature of "absolute" vs "relative"is interesting. I guess part of the problem is that we don't have objective measures for comparison. I'd say the minimum for that would be a SPLmeter, then preferably a standardized input source like a test CD/DVD. If your Denon is approaching 99% of max output and not distorting, that is remarkable.

Sound cutting out could be a sign of trouble but can occur for a number of reasons, mostly not having to do with a faulty AVR, not to say yours is fine. I've had it occur rarely, but always ended up determining it was the source.

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post #1203 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kamos11 View Post

I did, and the speakers and the test tones were fairly loud, but not uncomfortable.

Then it sounds like it's simply a matter of perspective then as many of us would find the test tones to be uncomfortably loud. The average "absolute" volume setting on an "Audyssey" setup would be 61-71 as the speakers are calibrated to the 75db test tone. With the 391 you've got to do that manually and as your speakers are fairly inefficient and will require more power they will likely be set to some +db setting, perhaps your best bet is to pick up a SPL meter so you know for sure.

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post #1204 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 04:14 PM
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kamos11 - thanks for the help - looks like there might be light at the end of the tunnel. One question - do you know how to change the Input Mode from Auto to Digital?
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post #1205 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by welshiv View Post
kamos11 - thanks for the help - looks like there might be light at the end of the tunnel. One question - do you know how to change the Input Mode from Auto to Digital?
OK - I think I partly figured it out - was able to change the Input Mode to Digital and you're 100% correct - I then got Audio and Video while in Game mode! However, I then lose Audio when in any other input until I change it back to Auto...is there any way to isolate it only to Game or will I have to manually make the change each time. Not a huge deal, but I use a Harmony remote so as to use only one remote, and this is not something that can be programmed in - I would have to use the Denon remote each time. Thanks!
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post #1206 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by welshiv View Post
OK - I think I partly figured it out - was able to change the Input Mode to Digital and you're 100% correct - I then got Audio and Video while in Game mode! However, I then lose Audio when in any other input until I change it back to Auto...
I am not the input guru (like jd or batpig), but standard Denon protocol is that input mode should be remembered by source, so setting Game input to digital means each time you press Game, it should be on Digital. But it should not affect any of the other inputs, which remain on default Auto.

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post #1207 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 05:05 PM
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+1

All righty then ... so you've earned your Input Mode merit badge ....

Still working on the Sig merit badge ....hmmm?

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post #1208 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by welshiv View Post
OK - I think I partly figured it out - was able to change the Input Mode to Digital and you're 100% correct - I then got Audio and Video while in Game mode! However, I then lose Audio when in any other input until I change it back to Auto...is there any way to isolate it only to Game or will I have to manually make the change each time.
I don't know. I was hoping that that setting would be input-specific; looks like it's not (I don't have multiple video inputs). It surprises me that it's not, however, and it might be worth taking another dive into the manual.

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Not a huge deal, but I use a Harmony remote so as to use only one remote, and this is not something that can be programmed in - I would have to use the Denon remote each time. Thanks!
You're welcome!
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post #1209 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 05:22 PM
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Still working on the Sig merit badge ....hmmm?

Can't decide, so many to chose from..."sub channel trim=-12?, turn sub down and rerun".

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post #1210 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Then it sounds like it's simply a matter of perspective then as many of us would find the test tones to be uncomfortably loud. The average "absolute" volume setting on an "Audyssey" setup would be 61-71 as the speakers are calibrated to the 75db test tone. With the 391 you've got to do that manually and as your speakers are fairly inefficient and will require more power they will likely be set to some +db setting, perhaps your best bet is to pick up a SPL meter so you know for sure.
At first, I didn't understand your conclusion about it being a matter of perception. But I went back to the Channel Level menu, and I can raise each speaker by up to 12 dB. At that level, +12, it is uncomfortably loud all right. Let me experiment to see how plus-settings affect source playback, and I'll get back to you. Thanks for bringing up this calibration wrinkle; it would not have occurred to me.

I will start looking at SPL meters.
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post #1211 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 08:47 PM
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I haven't rear the entire thread yet so I apologize if my question has already been answered but...

Im gonna be looking into a new reciever soon and i'm torn between the 591 and 1611. For the time being i'm only going to run a 5 ch set-up because my living room isn't laid out to benefit from 7.1 but in the near future I am finishing my basement and could move the SRS to a well laid out room for 7.1 system downstairs.

Can I run a 5.1 system through the 1611 or am I better off sticking to the 591.

This is replacing an Onkyo TX-SR500

Thanks,
Brian
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post #1212 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 08:51 PM
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Yes, you can run a 5.1 setup with a 7.1 AVR. In fact you'll likely get the 1611 for less than the 591 if you give Denon authorized reseller Electronics Expo a call in the morning.

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post #1213 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 08:55 PM
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Cool thanks. I didnt realize that was my first post. HI GUYS
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post #1214 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 09:39 PM
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Hey guys, thank you for all the replies regarding my 2.1 question. I finally figured it out. I just upgraded from a 27" JVC Tube and a 15 year old Harman Kardon AVR 20ii, so all of this stuff is pretty new to me.

So tonight I was playing a blu-ray (Iron Man 2), and the best surround decoding I could get was Multi-Channel.

I only have L/C/R and subwoofer connected, no surrounds. Does the 1611 limit the surround processing on the speaker configuration?
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post #1215 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 10:34 PM
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Hey guys, thank you for all the replies regarding my 2.1 question. I finally figured it out. I just upgraded from a 27" JVC Tube and a 15 year old Harman Kardon AVR 20ii, so all of this stuff is pretty new to me.

So tonight I was playing a blu-ray (Iron Man 2), and the best surround decoding I could get was Multi-Channel.

I only have L/C/R and subwoofer connected, no surrounds. Does the 1611 limit the surround processing on the speaker configuration?

Shouldn't.
I don't have my rear surround hooked up yet cause I'm waiting for the wall mount brackets to get here so I'm running just the L/R/C and sub and I can get DD and DTS if the source is such without an issue. Audessey is calibrated so maybe the receiver is aware that I only have those channels hooked up and diverts the surround inf.o to only those speakers.
Have you run Auto Setup yet?
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post #1216 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 10:53 PM
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Shouldn't.
I don't have my rear surround hooked up yet cause I'm waiting for the wall mount brackets to get here so I'm running just the L/R/C and sub and I can get DD and DTS if the source is such without an issue. Audessey is calibrated so maybe the receiver is aware that I only have those channels hooked up and diverts the surround inf.o to only those speakers.
Have you run Auto Setup yet?

I've run the auto setup, but it's not decoding in DTS. I was playing with my sub settings the other day though trying to get 2.1
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post #1217 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by elas View Post

Hey guys, thank you for all the replies regarding my 2.1 question. I finally figured it out. I just upgraded from a 27" JVC Tube and a 15 year old Harman Kardon AVR 20ii, so all of this stuff is pretty new to me.

So tonight I was playing a blu-ray (Iron Man 2), and the best surround decoding I could get was Multi-Channel.

I only have L/C/R and subwoofer connected, no surrounds. Does the 1611 limit the surround processing on the speaker configuration?

Hi elas, what BD player do you have?

If the receiver display Multi-Channel then the BD player is doing the decoding. If the BD player is set to Bitstream then the receiver will do the decoding and display the audio codec (DTSHD-MA).

And as I recall IM2 Blu Ray disc defaults to the standard DTS track, so you have to manually select the DTSHD-MA soundtrack. Normally this will be found under Audio Setting.
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post #1218 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 11:43 PM
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My BD player is the sony s-570. It looks like it's output is set at pcm.
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post #1219 of 4624 Old 11-06-2010, 11:56 PM
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My BD player is the sony s-570. It looks like it's output is set at pcm.

For the S-570 to play Bitstream, set HDMI Audio to "Auto" and BD Mix Audio to "OFF" as this is normally "ON" by default.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Then it sounds like it's simply a matter of perspective then as many of us would find the test tones to be uncomfortably loud. The average "absolute" volume setting on an "Audyssey" setup would be 61-71 as the speakers are calibrated to the 75db test tone. With the 391 you've got to do that manually and as your speakers are fairly inefficient and will require more power they will likely be set to some +db setting, perhaps your best bet is to pick up a SPL meter so you know for sure.

I was curious whether using a plus-setting for all speakers would make a significant difference. It did. I went back to the speaker configuration (channel level) and raised all speakers by 6 dB. Doing that more or less made my issues with the volume level go away. Now -20 dB is plenty loud, and -30 dB is low to moderate.

Wish I knew the formula for how these parameters relate. A +6 dB channel level setting is obviously not just adding an offset to the master volume. Thanks for the help!
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post #1221 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 01:18 AM
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Hi. OK, I take it you have checked the Volume limit is off. The Denon nomenclature of "absolute" vs "relative"is interesting. I guess part of the problem is that we don't have objective measures for comparison. I'd say the minimum for that would be a SPLmeter, then preferably a standardized input source like a test CD/DVD. If your Denon is approaching 99% of max output and not distorting, that is remarkable.

Sound cutting out could be a sign of trouble but can occur for a number of reasons, mostly not having to do with a faulty AVR, not to say yours is fine. I've had it occur rarely, but always ended up determining it was the source.

That's true, without an SPL meter I can't say anything definitive. It's even worse than that, because I don't even know what the volume dial means! One might assume that a volume dial that goes from 0 to 10 ends at 10, and not 11, but now I don't know what to think! :-)

Now that I think about it, it's not unusual for an electronics item to require expert calibration before normal use... TVs require calibration too.
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post #1222 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 03:25 AM
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That's true, without an SPL meter I can't say anything definitive. It's even worse than that, because I don't even know what the volume dial means! One might assume that a volume dial that goes from 0 to 10 ends at 10, and not 11, but now I don't know what to think! :-)
Now that I think about it, it's not unusual for an electronics item to require expert calibration before normal use... TVs require calibration too.

I think we can all feel a little more confident that your unit appears to be functioning normally and it is just a matter of meaningless relative numbers. BTW, is that volume limit set to OFF? If you desire a calibration, no need to pay someone. As I mentioned before, the Audyssey autosetup actually does this quite well, and then applies a sophisticated room EQ system which will do quite amazing things with your speakers. IMHO it is well worth the additional price so if possible, exchange your 391 for a 591. Or as jd suggested above, there is the high-value deal on a 1611 from EE so discounted it prices for less than the 591). As jd has repeatedly mentioned this, we are going to see if he puts it in his sig.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #1223 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 04:11 AM
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I'd put a whole lot more in my sig if I could .. but I'm out of real estate.

Care to rent some sig space?

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post #1224 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 04:30 AM
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Sure, I could probably use the cash. I am fighting off a case of upgradosis this weekend. Some local guy's selling a used 5.1 set of B&W's for $2K, new Oppo BRP/universal player 3D/streaming-capable coming out soon...

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #1225 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 06:14 AM
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I read in this morning's paper that clenching your fists will help to strengthen your will power. Either that or tie yourself down to that fancy chair of yours.

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post #1226 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 07:42 AM
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^ Strapping myself in right now, like Odysseus tied to the mast as he could not resist the siren's song. Nice post for the Audyssey thread.

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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I am not the input guru (like jd or batpig), but standard Denon protocol is that input mode should be remembered by source, so setting Game input to digital means each time you press Game, it should be on Digital. But it should not affect any of the other inputs, which remain on default Auto.

I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but I can't seem to have the change to Digital only apply to Game mode on the 391. The change to Digital is under Input Mode not Input Assignment so it doesn't seem there's any way to isolate it? If you could provide me a little more info on as to how to do so, I would greatly appreciate it. TIA.
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post #1228 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 06:13 PM
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SOM is referring to the Game HDMI "input" rather than the Game "surround mode". Also, if you refer to p. 32 of your Owner's manual, you'll note that INPUT MODE applies to each input separately as SOM noted.

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post #1229 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I think we can all feel a little more confident that your unit appears to be functioning normally and it is just a matter of meaningless relative numbers. BTW, is that volume limit set to OFF?

Yes it is off. When it is on, the volume display stops at the chosen maximum; so it's easy to see when you're being speed-limited. :-)

Quote:


If you desire a calibration, no need to pay someone. As I mentioned before, the Audyssey autosetup actually does this quite well, and then applies a sophisticated room EQ system which will do quite amazing things with your speakers. IMHO it is well worth the additional price so if possible, exchange your 391 for a 591. Or as jd suggested above, there is the high-value deal on a 1611 from EE so discounted it prices for less than the 591). As jd has repeatedly mentioned this, we are going to see if he puts it in his sig.

The 1611 deal is really nice. And yes, I notice lots of respect for Audessey in this and other threads here. Every once in a while, someone comes along and invents something you never really knew you needed--but it turns out it's indispensable. I hope that's the case here. For me personally, I want to learn how things work. Unfortunately for me my ability and motivation to learn do not always match my ambition, and so I remain ignorant about many things... and get myself into trouble.

Anyway, the 391 is indeed on its way back. I made the decision before I could benefit from the wisdom here, but I have to say I don't care for the Denon sound. It sounds dusty, or scratchy, to me. The replacement is a Yamaha 1065. It was a good deal and it has some nice features I care about, like higher resolution audio (192/24). You'll be happy to know that it does have Yamaha's own setup feature, which probably does not do as much as Audessey with MultiEQ does. But it's a start.
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post #1230 of 4624 Old 11-07-2010, 09:07 PM
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... I don't care for the Denon sound. It sounds dusty, or scratchy, to me...

Well that's a new one on me. Hope it's not your tweeters blown. Cheers.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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