*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 391 / 591 / 1611 Owner's Thread - Page 81 - AVS Forum
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post #2401 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhschellenberg View Post

Sorry I just don't have the money or the layout to invest very deeply in audio.

it's OK enjoy what you can!

Quote:


Did you see my note that it was "recessed" just for the holidays?

sorry misunderstood that it was only a temporary arrangement! If the speaker is going to live on the shelf below, definitely make sure it's at the front edge and angled upwards if at all possible.

I do think the Energy Takes will be an improvement over the BA speakers, but again there's only so much you can expect from teeny weeny sub/sat setups. But I do understand that not everyone prioritizes video vs audio the same way... All that matters though is that you enjoy it!

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post #2402 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhschellenberg View Post

Large speakers are out of the question for me - just not enough room. I'm a retired engineer with bad hearing from working in power plants early in my career, so all I'm really tryiing to do is an upgrade, which is functional, nice looking and not too expensive. The other thing is the video part where I was able to save (from my SS payments) enough to buy my 3D Panny - I've been somewhat involved in video and satellite TV from my younger days, but have had very little audio experience. Sorry I just don't have the money or the layout to invest very deeply in audio.

Understood. Although, you may want to consider a nice set of wireless headphones as well.

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post #2403 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 02:04 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement after an admiitedly rough start

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post #2404 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 02:14 PM
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Just jealous of that really nice TV of yours!

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post #2405 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just jealous of that really nice TV of yours!

Thanks, I never dreamed of owning such a TV, and now we got a full-time 3D channel from DirecTV. Gorgeous

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post #2406 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 04:38 PM
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^Nice display! An ir repeater gizmo would solve the potential blockage issue. Or you could get a shelf/stand piece which the TV sits on and allows the CC space to sit on top the existing cabinet.

I have some exposure-related HF hearing loss. I predict you that you will come to appreciate a good CC. And optimal CC placement, which is with the tweeter as close to seated ear height as possible, not close to the floor or pushed back on a shelf and tilted to blast you right in the face.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #2407 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 06:58 PM
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So I just figured out that my 6 month old 591 has been the culprit of my IR on my Samsung plasma's. I'm guessing this has been discussed before but 80 pages is a lot to search through, hoping someone can fill me in.
Hopefully this is correctable? And if not, any suggestions on a replacement? I have the setup that came with Boston Acoustic speakers and don't have any need to expand further than that.
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post #2408 of 4714 Old 02-14-2011, 07:57 PM
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It is usually the other way around - the plasmas' tubes "throw" a lot of IR noise which interferes with other devices. Is this your case?
Regardless of which device is causing the IR noise there are several possible solutions:
* move the AVR and/or the TV in a way that the interference is minimal. You'll have to experiment to find the best positions;
* get an IR repeater and attach the eyes to the AVR and the TV. In this case you'll have to position the receivers eye in a way that it will receive minimal amount of IR interference.

First, though, you should make sure that HDMI-CEC is not causing your problems. Turn it off both on e TV (Samsung calls it Anynet+) and on the AVR (set HDMI control to OFF) and check whether your problem persists. If it doesn't and you don't need it turned ON on both (i.e. you don't use ARC) check which one you can leave OFF or just leave both OFF.

Hope is helps.
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post #2409 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 02:47 AM
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I need some help getting my 1611 working on my computer in pro logic 2 mode. I have my computer setup to send all audio data from stereo video sources as PLii through the FFA plugin. When no sound is being sent, the receiver automatically says Plii and it seems to be working. As soon as the video starts, the receiver automatically changes to multi in and the video only plays from the front speakers. I could alievate this by setting my computer sound configuration to stereo rather than 5.1 and manually set PLii on the 1611, but if I do that then the blurays I watch and games I play on my PC will not be in surround sound. When the receiver is displaying multi in it does not let me switch manually to PLii.

Is there a way I can configure my Windows 7 64 bit PC to output the audio from my videos so that my receiver knows its a pro logic 2 source, without setting the sound configuration on my PC to stereo? If this is impossible, is there some kind of script I could put on my desktop to make this switch automatically rather than having to go through the sound configuration tool each and every time I want to switch?
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post #2410 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 04:35 AM
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^^
PLII is a "simulation" format that simulates 5.1 surround from 2.0/2.1 CH stereo. If the audio is already DD/DTS 5.1 there's nothing to simulate. If you have the STANDARD mode selected on the 1611, it will simulate 5.1 when a stereo signal is received and play the DD/DTS 5.1 on games and BD/DVDs. Also, when the AVR reads "Mult CH In" it means the source is decoding the compressed DD/DTS audio rather than the AVR doing it, although the audio is still the same quality as if the AVR were decoding it (you just can't read whether it was DD or DTS that was decoded on the AVR front panel display).

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post #2411 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
PLII is a "simulation" format that simulates 5.1 surround from 2.0/2.1 CH stereo. If the audio is already DD/DTS 5.1 there's nothing to simulate. If you have the STANDARD mode selected on the 1611, it will simulate 5.1 when a stereo signal is received and play the DD/DTS 5.1 on games and BD/DVDs. Also, when the AVR reads "Mult CH In" it means the source is decoding the compressed DD/DTS audio rather than the AVR doing it, although the audio is still the same quality as if the AVR were decoding it (you just can't read whether it was DD or DTS that was decoded on the AVR front panel display).

The problem is that when my computer plays a 2 ch source like a downloaded video or watching youtube. the receiver displays multi ch in and does not give me the option to select PLII. Most of the time i am not listening to a surround sound format, but the receiver acts like i am when receiveing from pc.
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post #2412 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 06:07 AM
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When the AVR reads "Mult CH In" it is receiving a multi channel signal (even though you're only hearing 2 channels) so there is nothing to simulate. Set the HTPC to play stereo signals as stereo and 5.1 as 5.1.

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post #2413 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olbi View Post

It is usually the other way around - the plasmas' tubes "throw" a lot of IR noise which interferes with other devices. Is this your case?
Regardless of which device is causing the IR noise there are several possible solutions:
* move the AVR and/or the TV in a way that the interference is minimal. You'll have to experiment to find the best positions;
* get an IR repeater and attach the eyes to the AVR and the TV. In this case you'll have to position the receivers eye in a way that it will receive minimal amount of IR interference.

First, though, you should make sure that HDMI-CEC is not causing your problems. Turn it off both on e TV (Samsung calls it Anynet+) and on the AVR (set HDMI control to OFF) and check whether your problem persists. If it doesn't and you don't need it turned ON on both (i.e. you don't use ARC) check which one you can leave OFF or just leave both OFF.

Hope is helps.

Actually the IR I'm talking about is image retention. I'm not familiar with IR noise, could that be causing the image retention?
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post #2414 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 06:14 AM
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What IR are you experiencing? The only issue I'm aware of is the MUTE logo staying on the screen in one place.

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post #2415 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

^^^^^^^^ @ hominamad and bjex500 -

Both of you could benefit of a read-through of the Audyssey section of my FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

hominamad: the point of Dynamic Volume is to make dialogue more intelligible by leveling out swings in volume... so, yes, if you think it makes things sound better you should use it!

bjex500: there is no such thing as "DynamicAudio". There are two different technologies, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, which "layer" on top of each other although they perform different functions. Please read my FAQ as I explain what you can and can't change, how to deal with too-loud surrounds, and also check out the descriptions of Dyn EQ and Vol that I link in my FAQ to the Audyssey website.

Thanks Batpig. Your guide is invaluable. I skimmed through it once already and will have to go through it another few times to absorb it all. Will post back here if I have any more specific questions.
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post #2416 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 09:42 AM
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3 quick questions:

#1 for Batpig - I just got a Bic F12 sub and on that forum one of the members said you have/had it. I set the dial to 12 o'clock, phase 0, 5.1 mode. It gave me -12 in channel level so of course I'll turn down the dial and get it so it's not -12 or +12 but I was wondering if you have any tips with the F12 that you would like to share from your experience? I have 2 Polk 60's mains, CS1 Center, 30 rears and a 1611.

#2. For television shows I download (xvid) and hulu/netflix stuff I set the reference level to 10db along when I'm watching DirecTv as the manual says but when you guys do that do you usually set PLII to cinema or music? It seems the back speakers really don't blend in well with 2.0 material that much. However if I play a PS3 game the rear speakers really kick in with 2.0 mode. I don't know if it's because I'm in game mode or what but I thought that was kind of odd. Speaking of game mode, there isn't a lot of information on that. How is that different compared to cinema/music?

#3. If I get a sound card with digital out. I should have no problem plugging the optical cord into the receiver and setting the sound card settings to output and having sound going through it correct? I don't know what setting would produce the sound however in the menu. For those that don't know, the PS3 media server is a life saver as you just plug in an Ethernet cord to the PS3 to your router and you can view all your .mp3's or video files through the AVR including .mkv support which Sony hasn't updated that yet with their firmware for some stupid reason. That program saves me a lot of discs that I would burn as it runs right off of the hard drive.

Once again, thanks for the help all you guys have given me. I'm on page 55 right now bookmarked but will plug through all of it soon and with having the 1611 for 4 months now or so I feel I can help some of you too as I'm always messing around with settings and getting a good feel of all the settings so far.

Edit: Let me throw one more out there. The 1611 of course does 7.1. I can't do back surrounds with my room but only front height. I will eventually get into BR movies but is it worth getting maybe another pair of Monitor 30's and setting it up? Most of my content is 2.0 currently but I'm thinking that might be overkill at this point or would it be worth it?
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post #2417 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post

So I just figured out that my 6 month old 591 has been the culprit of my IR on my Samsung plasma's. I'm guessing this has been discussed before but 80 pages is a lot to search through, hoping someone can fill me in.

no, it has not been discussed before and you are the first person to assert this. How is it possible that the receiver (which has no video processing!!) is causing image retention on your plasma?? How did you "figure it out?"

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post #2418 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^ @xx2000xx -

1) sounds like you are on top of things, the only "trick" with the BIC subs is knowing that the "Dolby Digital" or "5.1/6.1/7.1" setting means "crossover bypassed" which is correct for use with Audyssey-enabled digital receivers. My only advice is to enjoy

2) you have to realize that downloaded/streamed internet content is going to have very poor audio, and who knows how it was mixed? I would judge audio quality based on good source material (e.g. a Blu-ray). A big question though is why are PS3 games coming in 2-channel?? Have you configured your PS3 to send out multich?

3) I'm not sure what you are asking? If the computer can output audio, the receiver can certainly play it! That's the job of a receiver!

4) I would concentrate first on getting an optimized 5.1 setup and introducing good content (Blu-rays) rather than adding more speakers...

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post #2419 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13WaysToBleed View Post

Actually the IR I'm talking about is image retention. I'm not familiar with IR noise, could that be causing the image retention?

No, IR noise has nothing to do with Image Retention. Sorry about the mis-understanding.

As batpig said above the 591 doesn't overlay the video signal so there is no Mute dispalyed or volume, etc. What Image Retention are you experiencing?
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post #2420 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 10:30 AM
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the 1611 came in today. It looks great. I CAN'T wait to try it out after work today. I've already read the entire manual, lol

My HT:
Denon AVR-2113 Receiver
Mains TBD
Surrounds TBD
Subwoofer TBD (SVS SB1000, NHT B-10d, Rythmik LV12R, Klipsch RW12-D)
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Hello -
I am having issues with my AVR 391 which was purchased 6 weeks ago from Best Buy.

My AVR 391 is connected to Klipsch HDT 300 5.1 system. It worked fine until I played an audio CD thru PS 3. After that when I turned it on to play TV programs thru cable box, the Center channel and the Front Left speaker didn't sound right. The volume level on both of them is very low. The rest of the speakers, including SW are working fine. Even when I press the Test button on the remote to test the speakers, both Center and Left Front have very low volume and rest of them sound fine. I tired changing the setting, no help. Reset micro processor, no help. Disconnected power, all HDMI cables, etc. no help. The volume level seems normal only when surround mode Multi-Channel Stereo is selected. The rest of the surround modes don't work correctly. Any help on this is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
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post #2422 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhschellenberg View Post

Did you see my note that it was "recessed" just for the holidays?
I don't think I can put the "center" directly in front of the TV without blocking my IR remote sensor on the TV. I was thinking of trying to put in an inclined shelf to direct the center speaker's sound upward. I wonder what other people do who buy the Horizon 702+ from forum sponsor - Standout Designs? Thanks for your input

You can buy a IR repeater relatively cheap, set the receiver to
one side and attach the transmitter to the TV's receiver behind
the center speaker.
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post #2423 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avr391 View Post

Hello -
I am having issues with my AVR 391 which was purchased 6 weeks ago from Best Buy.

My AVR 391 is connected to Klipsch HDT 300 5.1 system. It worked fine until I played an audio CD thru PS 3. After that when I turned it on to play TV programs thru cable box, the Center channel and the Front Left speaker didn't sound right. The volume level on both of them is very low. The rest of the speakers, including SW are working fine. Even when I press the Test button on the remote to test the speakers, both Center and Left Front have very low volume and rest of them sound fine. I tired changing the setting, no help. Reset micro processor, no help. Disconnected power, all HDMI cables, etc. no help. The volume level seems normal only when surround mode Multi-Channel Stereo is selected. The rest of the surround modes don't work correctly. Any help on this is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

If the test signals sound weak in those speakers then it may an issue with the speakers themselves. Try swapping the right and left front speakers and a surround with the center to see if the issue remains. Also, when playing a BD/DVD through the PS3 what does the front panel display on the 391 read?

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post #2424 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

^^^ @xx2000xx -

1) sounds like you are on top of things, the only "trick" with the BIC subs is knowing that the "Dolby Digital" or "5.1/6.1/7.1" setting means "crossover bypassed" which is correct for use with Audyssey-enabled digital receivers. My only advice is to enjoy

2) you have to realize that downloaded/streamed internet content is going to have very poor audio, and who knows how it was mixed? I would judge audio quality based on good source material (e.g. a Blu-ray). A big question though is why are PS3 games coming in 2-channel?? Have you configured your PS3 to send out multich?

3) I'm not sure what you are asking? If the computer can output audio, the receiver can certainly play it! That's the job of a receiver!

4) I would concentrate first on getting an optimized 5.1 setup and introducing good content (Blu-rays) rather than adding more speakers...

Thanks. Yeah, I know I need to tweak it and run Aud a few more times. I was just curious as you had it, just some tweaks or anything to help me out with the F12 as you are sooooo respected on other forums too, so I gave it a shot. I just set it up and need to do the sub crawl and etc....... I've learned that you just don't plant a sub anywhere and be done with it, but there is a science to it.

#2. I just got the PS3 never having PS1/2, or an xbox, so I'm new to the systems. Dreamcast was the last I had. I got God of War 1/2 which was a PS2 game and they re-did that on PS3 so that's why it's 2.0. I have other games here on 5.1 and DTS but never did them yet, so that's fine.

#4 - Yeah I got the PS3 not for me, but for mainly my 3 younger brothers and cousins who come over here. They just left about 30 min ago cause they wanted to do zombie mode on black ops with the F12 and now they are gone.

Edit: I thought about this for a good 20 min. I was 12 years old before my first brother was old. We have a good gap, but I did my 5.1 surround system more to them than myself too as I'm not into more TV shows than movies. That said, I need to hit some movies for myself as I have a good 50 DD 5.1 sitting right here. I'm showing off my system more than not as i don't want live TV shows.
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post #2425 of 4714 Old 02-15-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When the AVR reads "Mult CH In" it is receiving a multi channel signal (even though you're only hearing 2 channels) so there is nothing to simulate. Set the HTPC to play stereo signals as stereo and 5.1 as 5.1.

I dont know how to do that
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post #2426 of 4714 Old 02-16-2011, 06:30 AM
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My fault for not reading deep enough, but I didn't know the 1611 couldn't superimpose the menu over the current source input. Not a HUGE deal, but very disappointing. A friend has an Onkyo SR308 and when he turns the volume up, it superimposes over any source. I thought surely since mine is a good mark higher in the food chain, that it would as well.

:-(

My HT:
Denon AVR-2113 Receiver
Mains TBD
Surrounds TBD
Subwoofer TBD (SVS SB1000, NHT B-10d, Rythmik LV12R, Klipsch RW12-D)
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post #2427 of 4714 Old 02-16-2011, 10:24 AM
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A friend has an Onkyo SR308 and when he turns the volume up, it superimposes over any source. I thought surely since mine is a good mark higher in the food chain, that it would as well.

:-(
It has been said here before that Denon put their money into sound quality rather than a fancy OSD.
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post #2428 of 4714 Old 02-16-2011, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think the 308 does volume overlay -- most likely that is the HDMI-CEC in his TV creating the volume overlay graphic.

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post #2429 of 4714 Old 02-16-2011, 11:20 AM
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I don't think the 308 does volume overlay -- most likely that is the HDMI-CEC in his TV creating the volume overlay graphic.
Ah, you maybe right. I know its been said over and over, and I love SQ over frills/bells and whistles (which is why I went with denon), no biggie really.

I did have one quick question, I have searched and found a couple of posts direct from Audyssey regarding extensions for the mic.

http://ask.audyssey.com/entries/9387...able-too-short

The 1611 av rack is in a room about 50 feet from zone 1 listening area, and about 20 feet from zone two. The wires are ran beneath the sheet rock and are completely hidden, so there really isn't a way to temporarily locate the AVR in each zone.

Does anyone have experience using a 25' plus extension? My speakers are bright as is, I don't really want the highs to be boosted any further.

Thanks for all the advice and help. Batpig, the amount of information on your site alone has been an amazing help thus far!

My HT:
Denon AVR-2113 Receiver
Mains TBD
Surrounds TBD
Subwoofer TBD (SVS SB1000, NHT B-10d, Rythmik LV12R, Klipsch RW12-D)
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post #2430 of 4714 Old 02-16-2011, 12:46 PM
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If the test signals sound weak in those speakers then it may an issue with the speakers themselves. Try swapping the right and left front speakers and a surround with the center to see if the issue remains. Also, when playing a BD/DVD through the PS3 what does the front panel display on the 391 read?

jdsmoothie - Thank you for your input. This was the only thing I had not tried and sure enough the problem is with the speakers. Both speakers sound has gone down significantly. Now I am talking to Klipsch to get replacement becase they are still under warrantee.
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