*OFFICIAL* Denon AVR 391 / 591 / 1611 Owner's Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4654 Old 05-27-2010, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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FOR GENERAL FAQ AND DENON SETUP HELP, PLEASE VISIT:
http://batpigworld.com/




Denon AVR 391 ($249 MSRP)

Product Page: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/5302.asp

Product Sheet: http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...391_Lit707.pdf

Owner's Manual (English): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-E_105.pdf

Owner's Manual (Spanish): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-S_105.pdf




Denon AVR 591 ($349 MSRP)

Product Page: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/5374.asp

Product Sheet: http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...591_Lit517.pdf

Owner's Manual (English): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-E_008.pdf

Owner's Manual (Spanish): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-S_008.pdf




Denon AVR 1611 ($399 MSRP)

Product Page: http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/5325.asp

Product Sheet: http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...611_Lit521.pdf

Owner's Manual (English): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-E_005.pdf

Owner's Manual (Spanish): http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...1-OM-S_005.pdf



DENON AVR 591 / 1611 FEATURE SUMMARY

- 4 HDMI 1.4a inputs (1 output) supporting full 3D video + ARC
- 1 component video input and 2 composite video inputs
- 1 optical and 1 coaxial S/PDIF digital audio inputs
- Full HD audio decoding (Dolby TrueHD + DTS Master Audio)
- All analog video inputs are converted to HDMI video output (no scaling, just conversion)
- Audyssey MultEQ + Dynamic EQ + Dynamic Volume



Q. Which entry level model is right for me?

A: First, it's important to understand that, in terms of audio performance and build quality, the AVR 591, 1611, 791, and 1911 are essentially IDENTICAL. They all use the same Audyssey processing, have the same DSP chips, same DAC's, same chassis, same amp section, and are built alongside each other in the same factory in China. The only difference is the features. If you don't need the extra features, save your money and get a lower level model.


Feature differences among the "entry level" models:

Why should I get the 591 over the 391?:

The AVR 391 is a very basic, stripped-down unit that is missing some important features. Unless you just need a basic HDMI switchbox and have no use for Audyssey features, it is worth the price to step up to the 591. The 591 is really the minimum model anyone should consider for a serious home theater setup.

Differences between the 391 and 591 include:

- No Audyssey on the 391! That means no auto setup, no room calibration, no Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume!
- No video conversion on the 391. If you want to connect non-HDMI sources, you can't do "one cable to the TV".
- No component video input
- Remote is non-programmable, cannot control any other components
- Lower build quality overall, including spring clips for the center/surround channels, and lower end DSP and DAC chips


Stepping up from the 591 to the 1611 adds:

- 7 amps instead of 5 (the 591 can do 7.1, but you must add an external 2-ch amp)
- Zone 2 (only works with a 5.1 setup, since you have to assign the extra amps to power Zone 2 speakers)

The 791 is essentially a 1611 plus:

- front USB port for ipod/iphone direct connect & control (and can play MP3/WMA/AAC off USB drives)
- rated for 90 W/ch into 8-ohms (up from 75 W/ch on the 591/1611) thanks to a beefier power supply
- two extra RCA analog audio inputs (one of them audio only for "CD")
- video scaling up to 1080p (AVR 591/1611 will convert analog video inputs to HDMI output, but will do no processing/scaling)
- the ability to tweak 2-ch music settings separately from multichannel settings (via the "2Ch Direct/Stereo" menu)

Stepping up from the 791 to the 1911 adds:

- Zone 2 pre-outs (so you can run 7.1 + Zone 2 with an extra 2-ch amp)
- HD radio

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post #2 of 4654 Old 05-27-2010, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS




Q. What is the difference between the three-digit models (e.g. AVR 591) and the four-digit models (e.g. AVR 1611)?

A: In general, NOTHING. Denon puts out two parallel receiver lineups, with four-digit and three-digit model numbers. The four-digit models are generally sold by high end stereo shops and custom installers, and the three-digit models are the "consumer" version sold in retail outlets like Best Buy and Fry's.

However, there is ZERO difference in terms of power, specs, sound quality, build quality, etc. between the two lines. Denon has been doing this for years, it is exactly analogous to the Yamaha HTR and RX-V parallel receiver lines.

There will usually be one or two minor differences to differentiate the three-digit and four-digit models. There is typically a slight cosmetic difference between the two lines, and different remotes.

For more info, please see the Denon Model Numbers page at batpigworld:
http://batpigworld.com/models.html



Q. OK, what are the specific differences between the AVR 391, 591 and 1611?


The AVR 391 is a very stripped down budget model that is missing some critical features, most importantly Audyssey MultEQ, Dynamic EQ, and Dynamic Volume. Although the basic platform and amp section are the same as that of the 591/1611 models, it should really not be considered for any serious home theater setup.

The AVR 591 and AVR 1611 are "twin" models. The only differences between the two (beyond cosmetics) are:

(1) The AVR 591 is a 5.1 model -- it has only 5 built-in amp channels, with pre-outs to expand to 7.1 (if you want to add "height" or "surround back" speakers)

(2) The AVR 1611 is a "true" 7.1 model, with 7 built-in amp channels, of which the last two can be "assigned" to any of the following tasks: surround back, front height, or Zone 2 speakers

(3) The AVR 1611 has a 2nd zone (but ONLY if you are running 5.1 in Main Zone, as you are required to use the "amp assign" to power the Zone 2 speakers)

(4) The AVR 1611 has a "Room-to-room" remote control jack so you can hard-wire an infrared remote extender for your 2nd zone

IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS, THE AVR 591 AND 1611 ARE IDENTICAL!



Q. Does the AVR 591 have more power than the 1611?

A: NO!!! This is pure marketing gimmickry!!

The AVR 391, 591, and 1611 have IDENTICAL amplifier sections!!!

Denon decided to quote the "6-ohm" wattage spec instead of the "8-ohm" spec purely to make the 3-digit models look more impressive on the shelves of Best Buy, Fry's, etc. If you look at the actual manuals / product sheets, you will see that the amplifier specs are actually identical among these models!



Q. Can I use the pre-outs on the AVR 591 to add a more powerful amp for my front speakers?

A: NO. The pre-outs can ONLY be used to expand to 7.1 (either by adding "front height" or "surround back" speakers). Period!

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post #3 of 4654 Old 05-27-2010, 05:07 PM
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Just purchased an avr 591. Great looking reciever!
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post #4 of 4654 Old 05-28-2010, 01:56 PM
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Just bought it, set up Audyssey, only HDMI from cab/tv and DVD.
When Dolby Digital is displayed I get stereo sound, nothing from center channel. Yes, center channel was set up. PLIIxx, I get sound from the center channel speaker.

What am I doing wrong?
thanks in advance,
Ken
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post #5 of 4654 Old 05-28-2010, 02:10 PM
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What's your DD source? If your cable box, then sometimes HD TV stations will use a DD 5.1 signal but only broadcast a 2.0 audio track, however, because the AVR sees it as a full 5.1 track it cannot use PLIIx to simulate the missing channels. Does it happen with all HD channels?

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post #6 of 4654 Old 05-28-2010, 03:40 PM
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Yes Digital source is my cable box. When "Dolby Digital" appears for a channel I have to use Multi-channel Stereo to get the center speaker.
Channels that come in PLIIxx, no problem, I get the center and the sound quality is much better.
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post #7 of 4654 Old 05-28-2010, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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something is off with the cable box.

just to verify, pop in a DVD with a standard 5.1 track and see if when you get DOLBY DIGITAL or DTS SURROUND that it properly plays in all 5.1 channels.

also, it is always helpful to verify the actual input signal, hit the "Status" button on the front of the display and make sure it reports a 5.1 input (Dolby Digital 3/2/.1).

-----------

BTW - just as a point of clarification, the AVR 591 being 5.1 won't do PLIIx, it is just PLII without the "x"...

Dolby Pro Logic II = upmix 2-ch to 5.1 channels
Dolby Pro Logic IIx = same thing but up to 7.1 channels (adds surround back)
Dolby pro Logic IIz = same thing but up to 7.1 channels (adds front height)

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post #8 of 4654 Old 05-29-2010, 10:32 AM
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Status displays what you say it should.
The center channel is used on varying channels in my cable system that displays Dolby Dig. DVD's play fine, I can only assume the motorola cable box and/or cable system is the problem.

On the box I have 2 options for digital output: dolby dig ac3 or PCM.

thanks for the help,
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post #9 of 4654 Old 05-31-2010, 07:08 AM
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Regardless of the brand of AVR, HDMI "handshake" issues often exist (video/audio problems) when connecting a cable/sat box to an HDMI repeater (ie. AVR). There are a few solutions that can be used to resolve this issue:

(1) Make sure the firmware on the cable/sat box is up to date

(2) Try the other HDMI jacks on the AVR first to see if the same issue exists

(3) HDMI reset procedure:

a. While the cable/sat box is on, disconnect HDMI cable from TV
b. Turn off power to all devices (OFF, not in standby)
c. Disconnect HDMI cable from the cable/sat box to AVR at both ends
d. Wait 2 minutes
e. Reconnect all HDMI cables
f. Apply power to TV, then AVR, then cable/sat box

(4) Cable configuration work-around:

a. Connect a component and optical/coax cable from the cable/sat box to the AVR,

or,

b. Connect the HDMI cable from the cable/sat box to the TV and an optical/coax cable from the cable/sat box to the AVR

(5) Replace the cable/sat box with different model/mfr

(6) Sometimes adding an HDMI switch between the AVR and the TV will resolve this issue although will of course require an extra cost for the switch.

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post #10 of 4654 Old 05-31-2010, 01:38 PM
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I just picked up a 591 today, to replace my Onkyo SR574. Finally can get real Blu-Ray sound. Love it so far!
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post #11 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 06:43 AM
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Jsmoothie, thanks, I tried all and still have the issue. It changes on the same channel with commercials vs program! Called the cable company and they said I have the "most up to date" box they have but they did a re-boot remotely unfortunately changing nothing. Guess, I need a new cable company.

Thanks for the help.
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post #12 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 07:24 AM
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Don't give up on your cable company just yet as you still have the cable configuration options suggested in item (4) in my previous post above.

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post #13 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 07:36 AM
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I do have one question, regarding my harmony. Now that I have everything going to the Denon and a single HDMI cable going to my TV, how do I change my Harmony (620) programming so that it doesn't try switching to HDMI1? It will always be on HDMI1, but when I press an activity button, the input screen still comes up, just nothing changes. I went through the setup, but cannot seem to figure out how to delete this step.
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post #14 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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are you talking about the input switching on the TV? or is it switching to the wrong input on the AVR?

the more specific details you provide, the easier it is for us to help!

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post #15 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

are you talking about the input switching on the TV? or is it switching to the wrong input on the AVR?

the more specific details you provide, the easier it is for us to help!

It's going through the menu on the TV (Toshiba HL167), basically telling it to change to hdmi1, even though it's now always on that. I was going to try finding a remote subforum here to ask, but thought I'd ask here as well. Nothing is actually changing, but it's now an extra step that is really not needed.
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post #16 of 4654 Old 06-01-2010, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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AFAIK there really is no way to stop that, part of the initiation of any "activity" in the Harmony setup is to tell it which input each device needs to be on. So nothing is actually WRONG, it's just annoying to see the "input menu" flash up on the screen, right? I wouldn't worry about it....

But if it REALLY bothers you, I suggest that you should probably go to a dedicated Harmony forum as there may be some crazy work-around that I am not aware of...

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post #17 of 4654 Old 06-02-2010, 05:15 PM
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Hi batpig,

I am looking to buy either 1611 or 1911 and my main usage is for watching movies and sports. I have Klipsch HD500 speakers to connect.

I have LG BH200 which is one of the best player interns of upscaling.

does going to 1911 will make any difference or go with 1611 and save some $
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post #18 of 4654 Old 06-04-2010, 10:27 AM
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I really want the AVR-391. The price for discrete amps and 5.1 lossless cannot be beat! When/where should I buy?

I'll use it to replace my HK 154 which has worked great, just is only missing that lossless quality.

Casey
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post #19 of 4654 Old 06-04-2010, 10:37 AM
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AFAIK, the 391 isn't due out until July. The most frequently mentioned on line authorized vendors are Electronics Expo, 6Ave, and J&R as they'll likely be sold there somewhat under MSRP. Although if you need it sooner, then Best Buy will likely have it first at MSRP.

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post #20 of 4654 Old 06-04-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, the 391 isn't due out until July. The most frequently mentioned on line authorized vendors are Electronics Expo, 6Ave, and J&R as they'll likely be sold there somewhat under MSRP. Although if you need it sooner, then Best Buy will likely have it first at MSRP.

Thanks! Yeah, I'll definitely shop around to find the "street price". Maybe it's worth upgrading to the 591 for onscreen display and analog upconvert...

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post #21 of 4654 Old 06-04-2010, 04:57 PM
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BestBuy is the only authorized e-tailer I can find with the 591. Do they have some sort of deal with Denon?
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post #22 of 4654 Old 06-05-2010, 01:51 PM
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BB has the 1610 for $280 but I read about the firmware issues which I do not want to deal with. Does the 591 resolve these issues?
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post #23 of 4654 Old 06-05-2010, 05:18 PM
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BB said they wont be selling the 1611 but i dont know if that means they havent gotten any or wont get any ... any idea on street release date?
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post #24 of 4654 Old 06-06-2010, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Best Buy only sells the 3-digit models.

Only Best Buy "Magnolia" vendors will sell the 4-digit versions.

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post #25 of 4654 Old 06-06-2010, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sactoroy View Post

BB has the 1610 for $280 but I read about the firmware issues which I do not want to deal with. Does the 591 resolve these issues?

yes, I'm sure the 591 resolves the issues with the firmware on the 1610/590.... but I'm also sure there will be NEW firmware issues that pop up that we don't know exist yet!

Such is the nature of modern electronics, deal with it if you are worried about this, you are generally actually better off getting LAST year's model as all the bugs have been solved already.

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post #26 of 4654 Old 06-09-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, I'm sure the 591 resolves the issues with the firmware on the 1610/590.... but I'm also sure there will be NEW firmware issues that pop up that we don't know exist yet!

Such is the nature of modern electronics, deal with it if you are worried about this, you are generally actually better off getting LAST year's model as all the bugs have been solved already.

Good point, do you think the 591 is a worthy upgrade from the 1610 for $60?
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post #27 of 4654 Old 06-09-2010, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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only if you care about 3D

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post #28 of 4654 Old 06-09-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sactoroy View Post

Good point, do you think the 591 is a worthy upgrade from the 1610 for $60?

The extra HDMI port is what is making me lean towards the 591. I have 4 HDMI devices that I need to hook up. I'm hoping it shows up at more places though as I would rather not pay MSRP.
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post #29 of 4654 Old 06-09-2010, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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once these hit the streets you will be guaranteed to be able to find sub-msrp pricing at authorized online vendors like Electronics-Expo, J&R, and 6ave.com....

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post #30 of 4654 Old 06-09-2010, 10:52 AM
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There were a few boxes on the shelf at a BB in Sacramento, saw them on Monday but I could not find one on the shelf to fiddle with.
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