The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 102 - AVS Forum
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post #3031 of 10496 Old 11-03-2010, 08:56 AM
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Can anyone give me free or paid download link to the service manual for denon avr-991. Thanks
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post #3032 of 10496 Old 11-03-2010, 11:51 AM
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Just saw Cloverfield with it's Dolby True HD 5.1 audio track the other day.

It has got to be the thrilling audio experience I've heard from any Blu-ray and from any movie experience in a long time. If you got the 3311, a decent set of speakers and most importantly a decent subwoofer, you need to see Cloverfield in it's Dolby True HD 5.1. It's U T T E R L Y amazing!!
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post #3033 of 10496 Old 11-03-2010, 02:32 PM
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I have tried everything suggested (network reset, machine reset) to get network working but keeps saying connecting....
I was able to detect that there was a new firmware available but it failed downloading with some message like fail 10. I'm going to have to try getting 100ft of ethernet cable and connecting directly to the modem.
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post #3034 of 10496 Old 11-03-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmd63
I have tried everything suggested (network reset, machine reset) to get network working but keeps saying connecting....
I was able to detect that there was a new firmware available but it failed downloading with some message like fail 10. I'm going to have to try getting 100ft of ethernet cable and connecting directly to the modem.
What I've noticed myself, the firmware update on my receiver never went through when I tried the auto-update feature (kept saying 'connecting'), but after I initiated it through the menu it finished within 15 minutes. All of the above obviously on the wired ethernet cable link, wireless is a waste of time in this case.
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post #3035 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 03:10 AM
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I ordered a 3311 recently and should be getting it this week.

I am concerned as there have been some recent posts about new networking problems.

Is this related to a recent firmware upgrade?

Is this a widespread issue?

Is there a way to "roll back" to a previous, functional firmware?

One of the reasons I picked this unit was to use it for internet radio stations, as I am overseas and want to hear stations from back home.

Pioneer PDP-5071HD, Panasonic TC-P60ZT60, Denon 3311CI, Oppo BDP-93, Emotiva XPA-5, Definitive Mythos ST, Mythos 8, Gem XL, SVS SB-13 Ultra
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post #3036 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

I ordered a 3311 recently and should be getting it this week.

I am concerned as there have been some recent posts about new networking problems.

Is this related to a recent firmware upgrade?

Is this a widespread issue?

Is there a way to "roll back" to a previous, functional firmware?

One of the reasons I picked this unit was to use it for internet radio stations, as I am overseas and want to hear stations from back home.

I did the update tuesday and everything went smooth. The network is working normal.
But I have one question too, I read that we could use pandora in the 3311ci, but I don't see it anywhere.

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post #3037 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 04:03 AM
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I have one more question.
I got on Sunday the 3311ci, I used to have the yamaha rxv663 with ypao.
I did last night the calibration with Audyssey, but the levels where set very low, I watch Toy Story 3 at -10 to sound like I used to do it in the yamaha.
Today I got my radio shack SPL meter, and change the levels to 75db like before, the denon at 0 reference volume and everything come back higher. After that I restart the movie and the volume on the receiver at -23 was like I used to do in the yamaha.
So my question is why the settings on the Audyssey where so wrong?.
Another question, when you setup the speakers, do you have the front speakers as large and set the crossover for the rest of the speakers or set all them to small and do the crossover according with the configuration of each.
My setup is the denon, xpa-3, polk audio monitor 70's, cs2, fxi-a6 and monitor 30's, MFW-15 "active amp with the xpa-3".

This are the levels and distance with Audyssey and after with the SPL meter.
Distance Audyssey SPL(75db)
FL = 9.6 -6.5 -4.5
Center = 8.6 -6.5 -3.5
FR = 8.2 -6.5 -4.0
SL = 12.3 -4.5 -1.0
SR = 6.1 -7.5 -4.0
SBL = 4.3 -6.0 -3.0
SBR = 2.4 -9.5 -7.0
sub = 8.2 -10.5 -3.0(78db)

Thanks guys.

P.S.This receiver is a lot more complex than the yamaha.

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post #3038 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centauro74 View Post

... I used to have the yamaha rxv663 with ypao. I did last night the calibration with Audyssey, but the levels where set very low, I watch Toy Story 3 at -10 to sound like I used to do it in the yamaha.
Today I got my radio shack SPL meter, and change the levels to 75db like before, the denon at 0 reference volume and everything come back higher...

Hey, that's more than one question.
Your new Denon set the trims to acieve reference level 75 dB with internal test tones when MV=0. The settings were not "wrong'" The Yam most likely did not calibrate to reference, so there is no point in comparing numbers on the master vol dialbetween AVRs. Additioinally, your SPL meter can be off by a couple dB, probably even more off than the Audyssey setup mic (especially for low freqs). It seems your measurements probably reflect about that much variance and are of no concern. Personally I would reset them them all to the autosetup values. BTW when listening to non-internal test tone content, reference is altered by the fact that input levels vary and if you have DynVol on, the max dB is affected by the degree of compression. Yes, more complicated, but worth it.

After autosetup all speakers should be reset to small and the crossover raised to 80. Please see the Audyssey setup guide.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3039 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:02 AM
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For the Denon Gurus;

1) Is the pre-out voltage of the Denons greater than the Yamaha's lowly 1v which seems to get some controversy that it's borderline too low/underpowered? I also notice most pre/pros have 2v at the pre-outs. What's the 3311's pre-out power spec?

2) Also, this friday (tomorrow) is the end of my 30-day return period. I'm thinking hard about upgrading to the 4311 with the Audyssey XT32, however I currently only run a 5.1 system. But would the XT32 still be beneficial with it's higher resolution filtering with only 5.1 - especially on the sub and bass integration? I really love the bass integration that the Audyssey XT has over the YPAO in my older 663. Now I only currently use Audyssey for newer movie playback and use my own custom EQ for older/crappier sounding movies and also most all music and xbox 360 games - would the price difference not be worth it to me just for a more higher resolution Audyssey if I'm only going to use it with movies only?

Speaking of price, I also got 35% off the 3311 and I'm unsure what discount I could get on the 4311 (if any) so I would have to assume full MSRP for now. Selling my 663 for 75% of what I paid for it three years ago and getting 35% off the 3311 made it a pretty decent and worthwhile upgrade for the money out of pocket. Hell, the GUI, more powerful custom adjustments (like say, being able to save a custom 2-channel setting vs the multi-channel and having them auto load accordingly to the incoming source) and even the compressed music enhancer having three different levels of aggression compared to the Yamaha's enhancer which IMO can be overly aggressive adding more distortion than it helps would be reason enough to not take the Denon back and keep the Yamaha. So would the price spent on going to the 4411's performance level be marginal at best for me? Sorry, I have to make this decision by tomorrow night, lol. Since I have off work TODAY I'd kinda like to have my mind made up by tonight since I can sometimes come home from work too late to come home and box up a AVR and take it to the store (which is 40min away ), heh.
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post #3040 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centauro74 View Post

I have one more question.
I got on Sunday the 3311ci, I used to have the yamaha rxv663 with ypao.
I did last night the calibration with Audyssey, but the levels where set very low, I watch Toy Story 3 at -10 to sound like I used to do it in the yamaha.
Today I got my radio shack SPL meter, and change the levels to 75db like before, the denon at 0 reference volume and everything come back higher. After that I restart the movie and the volume on the receiver at -23 was like I used to do in the yamaha.
So my question is why the settings on the Audyssey where so wrong?.
Another question, when you setup the speakers, do you have the front speakers as large and set the crossover for the rest of the speakers or set all them to small and do the crossover according with the configuration of each.
My setup is the denon, xpa-3, polk audio monitor 70's, cs2, fxi-a6 and monitor 30's, MFW-15 "active amp with the xpa-3".

This are the levels and distance with Audyssey and after with the SPL meter.
Distance Audyssey SPL(75db)
FL = 9.6 -6.5 -4.5
Center = 8.6 -6.5 -3.5
FR = 8.2 -6.5 -4.0
SL = 12.3 -4.5 -1.0
SR = 6.1 -7.5 -4.0
SBL = 4.3 -6.0 -3.0
SBR = 2.4 -9.5 -7.0
sub = 8.2 -10.5 -3.0(78db)

Thanks guys.

P.S.This receiver is a lot more complex than the yamaha.

I also came from the 663, seems like a lot of people from the 663 era are upgrading now and the 3311 seems to be on the hot-list along with the Yamaha A2000. I also noticed that with the 3311 that the volume has to go higher to achieve the same volume of the Yamaha, whatever, as long as it works. My assumption is that it sets the level so that at 0db you get reference volume with Audyssey? Anyway, I'm also curious to hear listening impressions from fellow 663 users. I notice mainly the sub/bass is much better integrated than what the 663's YPAO did. I'm still on the fence about 2-channel listening, and by default, could swear the 663 has more fine detail/resolution. Audyssey + new movies is a definite win however. I hate Audyssey for music and older movies and have setup a custom EQ that makes them sound good.
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post #3041 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

I ordered a 3311 recently and should be getting it this week.

I am concerned as there have been some recent posts about new networking problems.

Is this related to a recent firmware upgrade?

Is this a widespread issue?

Is there a way to "roll back" to a previous, functional firmware?

One of the reasons I picked this unit was to use it for internet radio stations, as I am overseas and want to hear stations from back home.

You're likely seeing what amounts to some isolated issues. Keep in mind that most folks post in AVS only when they have a problem so it looks worse than it really is. You're not seeing the thousands who aren't having any problems at all.

That said, there is no way to "roll back" to a previoius firmware version. Although keep in mind that unless you're experiencing a particular problem there's no reason to update the firmware. Refer to post #1 for the primary firmware fixes to date.

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post #3042 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centauro74 View Post

But I have one question too, I read that we could use pandora in the 3311ci, but I don't see it anywhere.

Refer to p. 39 in your Owner's manual on Pandora.

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post #3043 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

2) Also, this friday (tomorrow) is the end of my 30-day return period. I'm thinking hard about upgrading to the 4311 with the Audyssey XT32, however I currently only run a 5.1 system. But would the XT32 still be beneficial with it's higher resolution filtering with only 5.1 - especially on the sub and bass integration?

Definitely. In fact most folks prefer Audyssey for movies over music. Just depends on whether it's worth 2x the cost as the 4311 can generally be had for 25-30% below MSRP from authorized vendors (Electronics Expo, World Wide Stereo, etc.). Refer to the 4311 Owner's thread (just past month as that's when it started arriving) for more info as well as consider posting your question there as at least a couple of guys from this thread have already decided to upgrade to the 4311 from their 3311.

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post #3044 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

...I'm thinking hard about upgrading to the 4311 with the Audyssey XT32, however I currently only run a 5.1 system. But would the XT32 still be beneficial with it's higher resolution filtering with only 5.1...

1. dunno, never pulled out the volt meter to measure but I've not heard of a problem with Denon preouts.
2. If you'd be purchasing from where you're returning just call and ask. Doubtless they'd rather exchange for a higher-end unit than simply return your $, and could maybe extend the return period so you could take the 4311 home to A/B. On the other hand, contact EE directly to get their price, usually considerably less than b&m stores because of hi volume and lo overhead.
3. Number of speakers 5.1vs 7.1 etc is really irrelevant. Unfortunately it is really hard to say how much of a difference a 4311 will make but if you are a serious critical a listener with pretty good speakers, then XT32 (along with other upgraded components in the 4311 which also add to SQ) may well be worth it.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3045 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although keep in mind that unless you're experiencing a particular problem there's no reason to update the firmware.

I'm not so sure. I've yet to hear that the FW updates were totally independent. Do you need to do all FW updates in sequence whether you need them or not so that when the one that comes along you do need will take?

In absence of information to the contrary, I'd think it would be prudent to keep up with latest FW.
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post #3046 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Refer to post #1 for the primary firmware fixes to date.

I'm still not convinced on the Denon reps fw info posted in post. 1. It refers to the remote app being pushed on 10/27. I have consistently had my reciever tell me I'm at latest FW since late last month and have checked twice in the last week (all my network functions work flawlessly). In fact several posted in this forum around 10/1 that the remote app now works when according to the info in post 1 the fw wasn't available until 10/27? So I question the accuracy of the info recieved from the denon rep in post 1 regarding fw updates. I tend to think more likely the one or two who said they got fw updates recently didn't get the last one or didn't get it correctly and are just catching up. There was also an awful lot of 'chatter' of people doing fw updates at the end of Sept/early Oct and non since, save the one or two.
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post #3047 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

... In fact most folks prefer Audyssey for movies over music...

I've found that Audyssey itself (MultEQ, XT, and I imagine XT32 more so) generally improves SQ for 2 Ch/multich music which has amplified/electronic instruments (most pop, rock, etc). Well-recorded acoustic music may be another matter, especially if one has really nice speakers well placed in a room that is not so acoustically challenged, but that's not my story...

Emig, note that DynEQ can be problematic with non-reference music mixes (the norm outside film soundtracks) so keep that off.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3048 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I'm not so sure. I've yet to hear that the FW updates were totally independent. Do you need to do all FW updates in sequence whether you need them or not so that when the one that comes along you do need will take?

In absence of information to the contrary, I'd think it would be prudent to keep up with latest FW.

Each firmware update includes the fixes from the previous updates so if someone has never updated their AVR and then update the latest update, they'll get all the previous updates as well. As some have posted, they've never updated at all.

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post #3049 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I'm still not convinced on the Denon reps fw info posted in post. 1. It refers to the remote app being pushed on 10/27.

I already mentioned in another post that I'm the one that used the 10/27 date (not the Denon rep) based soley on what I read here. If that turns out not to be the case, the date can easily be removed.

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post #3050 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Each firmware update includes the fixes from the previous updates so if someone has never updated their AVR and then update the latest update, they'll get all the previous updates as well. As some have posted, they've never updated at all.

Thanks, good to know. With my use of the 3311ci, I have no real need to do the updates other than being OCD.
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post #3051 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I already mentioned in another post that I'm the one that used the 10/27 date (not the Denon rep) based soley on what I read here. If that turns out not to be the case, the date can easily be removed.

I'd been inclined to remove the dates. I'm up to date When I did the FW check procedure, it says I'm at ver 005 which corresonds to the number of revisions. I did that update over a month ago.
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post #3052 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 07:44 AM
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So was the XT32 every coming to the 3311 as an optional (and perhaps not free?) update? There is an "add new feature" option along with "firmware update" after all...
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post #3053 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 08:07 AM
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^That would make the 3311 an irresistible model for me to trade up to, but I that option is quite unlikely IMO. I don't recall such an offering on a model below the 3808, which for a very limited time had the 2009 DynEQ/Vol upgrade available new with purchase and for $100 otherwise.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3054 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 09:12 AM
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[quote="SoundofMind"]
Hey, that's more than one question.
Your new Denon set the trims to acieve reference level 75 dB with internal test tones when MV=0"

What's MV=0?.

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post #3055 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey, that's more than one question.
Your new Denon set the trims to acieve reference level 75 dB with internal test tones when MV=0. The settings were not "wrong'" The Yam most likely did not calibrate to reference, so there is no point in comparing numbers on the master vol dialbetween AVRs. Additioinally, your SPL meter can be off by a couple dB, probably even more off than the Audyssey setup mic (especially for low freqs). It seems your measurements probably reflect about that much variance and are of no concern. Personally I would reset them them all to the autosetup values. BTW when listening to non-internal test tone content, reference is altered by the fact that input levels vary and if you have DynVol on, the max dB is affected by the degree of compression. Yes, more complicated, but worth it.

After autosetup all speakers should be reset to small and the crossover raised to 80. Please see the Audyssey setup guide.

It's ok to use a SPL meter after audyssay?, or better to keep it the way audyssay sets everything. The reason I ask is that I almost have to get it up to -10 to my normal liking, instead of -20 like before.
Sorry if my questions are stupid, but in newbie in this department.
Than you.

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post #3056 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote:


What's MV=0?

MV = master volume

Quote:


It's ok to use a SPL meter after audyssay?

sure, but all you are doing is changing the number on the display it doesn't actually change anything except placating your personal psychology!

just leave it where Audyssey set it, and turn the volume up!


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Another question, when you setup the speakers, do you have the front speakers as large and set the crossover for the rest of the speakers or set all them to small and do the crossover according with the configuration of each.

read this: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/

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post #3057 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaco View Post

So was the XT32 every coming to the 3311 as an optional (and perhaps not free?) update? There is an "add new feature" option along with "firmware update" after all...


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^That would make the 3311 an irresistible model for me to trade up to, but I that option is quite unlikely IMO. I don't recall such an offering on a model below the 3808, which for a very limited time had the 2009 DynEQ/Vol upgrade available new with purchase and for $100 otherwise.

Could that even be done with a update/added feature? I'd pay for that update if so....
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post #3058 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Could that even be done with a update/added feature? I'd pay for that update if so....

It would depend on the capability of the processor. How much margin does it have in processing capabiilty to handle and process 4x (32 postions instead of 8) as much data. I suspect there is not much if any difference in algorithm, its more of an i/o issue and processor margin. Typically during development the processing margin is tracked, the question is how much extra capability is left? 4X doesn't sound like a lot, but depending on how the algorithm has to process the input data, it could require vast extra processing capability.
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post #3059 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 01:18 PM
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I read this forum from beginning to end as I always do before buying a receiver. I like the features of this reciever and got it a great price from Electronics Expo.

The one downside is that I cannot set dynamic eq up in any way that is pleasing, the bass is just too high on the low end and sounds really artificial. I tried using the dynamic volume set to midnight and set the offset to 15db and that tamed it the most but there were still moments when both front channels (set to large) and the sub were just producing too much bass. Now you would think that you could set the manual eq to lower the bass and then turn dymanic eq "on". However, dynamic eq is not allowable when using manual eq. Bummer. I see that another person had the exact same issue with too much bass. My sub was set to LFE+main and then finally to just LFE. It's sad because dynamic eq does so much for the high frequency range but the boatload of bass just kills it.

I ran auddessy auto setup twice to make sure the settings were correct. I found that my sub settings were off in distance both times. I have a 15 inch sub. I had always kept it a little turned up to get that extra boom on balanced audio (without the extra bass already introduced). After testing with a SP meter I found that the -12db level set by auto setup was correct. amazing since this seems so low compared to all the other speaker levels but the SP meter doesn't lie.

I toyed with the settings for weeks trying to get it to sound right. Finally, I turned off dynamic eq. Sad but I started without this kind of processing anyhow since I upgrade from my AVR 1603 to this avr 3311 which was set to tone control anyway. The sound difference is noticible as I can discern more refined sound from the same speakers.

The thing is that my 4308ci which I have in another room which the exact same speakers except for the rear surrounds, sound perfect with the audessey curve and dynamic eq turned on (yes I purchase the upgraded feature pack which gave me dynamic eq and dynamic volume although I only use dynamic eq). Although the 4308ci dynamic eq does not have an ref offset setting as in the 3311.

All other features are fabulous except for way too much bass in dynamic eq even when set at the lowest setting. Has anyone experienced too much bass when dynaic eq is turned on and found a way to fix it? I can live without the processing but it is a shame to lose the fabulous high end frequency detail that it produces at lower listening volumes.
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post #3060 of 10496 Old 11-04-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by centauro74 View Post

It's ok to use a SPL meter after audyssay?, or better to keep it the way audyssay sets everything. The reason I ask is that I almost have to get it up to -10 to my normal liking, instead of -20 like before.
Sorry if my questions are stupid, but in newbie in this department.
Than you.

I use an SPL meter after audssay does its thing. Most of the settings are correct after auto setup but I like to tailor the sound to my liking. I did this with my 4308ci to turn the back channels down a bit but to make sure the SPL was the same for both at my primary listening position. I also turn down the center by about a db because it tends to overpower the fronts. I have my 4308ci sounding exactly how I want it. My only problem with the 3311 is the dynamic eq and bass. Play around with the setting to see what you get, you can always go back into auto setup and "restore" the original auddssay settings to get back to square 1.
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