The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Keep in mind that with a 5.1 setup, the surround speakers go "on the side" rather than to the rear, although those small Energy satellites are more suitable in a small/med sized room.
My sofa is about 10 feet away from the TV,as i said my room is not the enclosed type, I have attached a layout of my living room, maybe you could suggest a decent speaker setup for my room type.

can you pls help

thanks in advance.

 

living room.pdf 88.6083984375k . file
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post #3602 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 08:45 PM
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It would seem like mounting the "side" surrounds would be fairly easy on the walls (on either side of the couch directly facing the TV) and given that part of the room is enclosed by walls, the small Energy speakers would probably work okay for you. You can't really do anything about the Love seat as the ideal seating position will be the couch unless of course you move both the sofa and love seat to form a "V" facing the TV.

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post #3603 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It would seem like mounting the "side" surrounds would be fairly easy on the walls (on either side of the couch directly facing the TV) and given that part of the room is enclosed by walls, the small Energy speakers would probably work okay for you. You can't really do anything about the Love seat as the ideal seating position will be the couch unless of course you move both the sofa and love seat to form a "V" facing the TV.

what do you think of these

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732RCMI...y+RC-Micro+5.1
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post #3604 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 08:53 PM
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The WAF aside, I'd go with the larger Take 5.1 Classics over the Micros, unless in a really small (ie 100 sq ft) fully enclosed room. Budget is of course a concern as well .. but if you don't plan on buying new speakers again for awhile, ideally you should spend about 2x on your speaker budget as you spend on the AVR. The larger the speakers, "generally" the better the sound ... the center speaker being the most important when movies/TV are concerned.

With the 3311, you really should be considering at least a $1000-$1500+ setup to take advantage of the Audyssey MultEQ XT. That micro setup and even Take 5 Classic are really better suited for the entry level 1611 or 1911 models.

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post #3605 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The WAF aside, I'd go with the larger Take 5.1 Classics over the Micros, unless in a really small (ie 100 sq ft) fully enclosed room. Budget is of course a concern as well .. but if you don't plan on buying new speakers again for awhile, ideally you should spend about 2x on your speaker budget as you spend on the AVR. The larger the speakers, "generally" the better the sound ... the center speaker being the most important when movies/TV are concerned.

Thanks for the tip, i will go with Energy take 5.1's.
I wanted to buy good speakers and receiver( denon 3311).
I thought bose were good, but now i am convinced they are not after reading a lot of reviews.

Budget was not necessarily a concern per say, but wanted to have speakers that i would have used for a while and i believe in getting the good quality stuff as these big purchases cannot happen every year.

Btw the micros are expensive everywhere except crutchfield.com.
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post #3606 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 09:18 PM
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@batpig
I got the AVR-3311 ....... from electronics expo, price was too good to let go.

When I was looking right before Thanksgiving, EE was out of stock. 6ave price matched, and I ended up by chance working with Scott, who is a member here, on AVS.
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post #3607 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 10:35 PM
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Some people here are probably using an app and software from eyecon. The term didn't show up in a quick search of this thread, so it might not have been mentioned yet, and it should be because the eyecontroller does things with the 3311 that the Denon app doesn't.

I didn't even have the 3311 in mind when I installed the app. I just got the app to be able to access my media servers from my ipod touches and ipad. When I opened the eyecontroller on the ipad I was surprised to see a Denon 3311 icon pop up on the right side of the eyecontroller screen.

On the left side of the screen the available media servers popped up. I hadn't read any directions, so I wasn't sure what to expect, but I dragged a song from a media server folder onto the Denon icon and the song began to play. That was already cool, but I'm just getting to the good part.

What's cool is that the eyecontroller lets me drag songs and albums from a bunch of different media servers into a playlist area that's called the Plug screen. What I'm saying is that the eyecontroller lets me make a list that combines songs from itunes, TVersity, Mediatomb servers, and networked drives all onto one playlist. Access to the itunes content requires installation of software called eyecon tunes.

The eyecontroller app has fast and easy access to all the different media servers, so while I'm listening to one song I can add ten or twenty more songs to the list. The eyecontroller is much faster than the Denon app at moving from song to song, folder to folder, server to server. The Plug screen basically lets me easily make a playlist on the fly from all the different music servers on the network.

That's a way that I frequently listen to music. I make it up as I go along. While I'm playing one song or album I'm reminded of something else that I want to hear. The eyecontroller lets me drag songs from any folders on any media servers and add them anywhere I want in the list.

If I want to make the list a few hours long with songs randomly mixed from different computers then I can make that list on the eyecontroller and walk away to let the songs play.

I know that playlists are nothing new, but the good thing about the eyecontroller is that it's so easy to spontaneously make the lists on the ipad and play them on the 3311. I don't have to use a computer or use itunes. I don't have to save the list or sync anything.

I should mention that the Denon app does a whole bunch of stuff that the eyecontroller doesn't, so they aren't really competing apps. It's easy to switch back and forth between them if there's any need to switch. The eyecontroller can control the volume on the 3311, and skip tracks back and forth. There's also a mute button.

The eyecontroller isn't intended to be a fully functional remote for the 3311. On the other hand the eyecontroller also does a good job of playing content from the media servers directly on the ipad/ipod touch, which is why I got the app in the first place. The playlist creation and control for the 3311 has just been a good bonus. The eyecontroller is free, so that part can't be beat.
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post #3608 of 10496 Old 12-01-2010, 11:44 PM
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There are a group of youtube videos on how Eyecontroller works and tutorials located here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgRKCWJOJRA
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post #3609 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eme jota ce View Post
You might want to consider whether you'd rather pay $49 for Denon to play music via Airplay OR whether you'd rather pay $99 to connect an Apple TV to your denon via HDMI - that would allow you to play all your iTunes music through your Denon, all your videos in iTunes through your Denon, to watch Netflix movies via your Denon, browse your photos, and to rent movies through your Apple TV / Denon.

I have an Apple TV connected to my 3311ci and do all of the above. Works great. When Denon announced the Airplay, I had hoped it would replace my Apple TV for $49, but since it looks like Denon's Airplay won't have video, I'll likely keep the Apple TV connected and skip the firmware upgrade.

Depends upon your usage pattern.
Only problem is you can't play to zone 2 or 3 as the audio comes in by the hdmi. Hopefully the airplay upgrade will be like the tuner input where you can play it to any zone.
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post #3610 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samden View Post
Some people here are probably using an app and software from eyecon. The term didn't show up in a quick search of this thread, so it might not have been mentioned yet, and it should be because the eyecontroller does things with the 3311 that the Denon app doesn't.

I didn't even have the 3311 in mind when I installed the app. I just got the app to be able to access my media servers from my ipod touches and ipad. When I opened the eyecontroller on the ipad I was surprised to see a Denon 3311 icon pop up on the right side of the eyecontroller screen.

On the left side of the screen the available media servers popped up. I hadn't read any directions, so I wasn't sure what to expect, but I dragged a song from a media server folder onto the Denon icon and the song began to play. That was already cool, but I'm just getting to the good part.

What's cool is that the eyecontroller lets me drag songs and albums from a bunch of different media servers into a playlist area that's called the Plug screen. What I'm saying is that the eyecontroller lets me make a list that combines songs from itunes, TVersity, Mediatomb servers, and networked drives all onto one playlist. Access to the itunes content requires installation of software called eyecon tunes.

The eyecontroller app has fast and easy access to all the different media servers, so while I'm listening to one song I can add ten or twenty more songs to the list. The eyecontroller is much faster than the Denon app at moving from song to song, folder to folder, server to server. The Plug screen basically lets me easily make a playlist on the fly from all the different music servers on the network.

That's a way that I frequently listen to music. I make it up as I go along. While I'm playing one song or album I'm reminded of something else that I want to hear. The eyecontroller lets me drag songs from any folders on any media servers and add them anywhere I want in the list.

If I want to make the list a few hours long with songs randomly mixed from different computers then I can make that list on the eyecontroller and walk away to let the songs play.

I know that playlists are nothing new, but the good thing about the eyecontroller is that it's so easy to spontaneously make the lists on the ipad and play them on the 3311. I don't have to use a computer or use itunes. I don't have to save the list or sync anything.

I should mention that the Denon app does a whole bunch of stuff that the eyecontroller doesn't, so they aren't really competing apps. It's easy to switch back and forth between them if there's any need to switch. The eyecontroller can control the volume on the 3311, and skip tracks back and forth. There's also a mute button.

The eyecontroller isn't intended to be a fully functional remote for the 3311. On the other hand the eyecontroller also does a good job of playing content from the media servers directly on the ipad/ipod touch, which is why I got the app in the first place. The playlist creation and control for the 3311 has just been a good bonus. The eyecontroller is free, so that part can't be beat.
I've had a bit of a play with eyecon and it is not bad, except all my music is stored as apple lossless and the denon won't play that codec. I couldn't get eyecon to work properly because of that.
TVMobili is another free one that does a lot as well but same problem with the codec-no apple lossless.
Also, videos bought through itunes won't play because of the DRM.
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post #3611 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 03:01 AM
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Hi everyone,

Just a quick one: is there a burn-in time for the 3311?

The first one I heard was refurbished one (a mistake on the dealer's part), which had been used for a while, so they've swapped it and I've received a new one, but it sounds slightly less good than the aready used one. So I was wondering if there was a burn-in time for these amps, and if yes how long does it take?

My perception is that the sound isn't as "full" and clear as with the used one. It's subtle, but it's there.
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post #3612 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 03:08 AM
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Only problem is you can't play to zone 2 or 3 as the audio comes in by the hdmi. Hopefully the airplay upgrade will be like the tuner input where you can play it to any zone.
Using Airplay to an Apple TV connected via optical has been shown to play to Zone 2/3 so it may be possible with Airplay alone.

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post #3613 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Using Airplay to an Apple TV connected via optical has been shown to play to Zone 2/3 so it may be possible with Airplay alone.
Ok-hadn't tried that. I'm using pre-outs to a separate amp and the hdmi didn't work. I'll give it a go and report back. I will be a happy chappy if it works!!
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post #3614 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 07:59 AM
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Jeff Talmadge (Denon Dir Prod Dev) has confirmed that due to Apple's delay in releasing ios 4.2 the firmware upgrade to Denon AVRs will be delayed until Apple can certify the upgrade firmware. The upgrade originally scheduled for Dec 1 is now expected to be no earlier than Dec 15.

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post #3615 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Just a quick one: is there a burn-in time for the 3311?

there is no such thing as "burn-in time" for electronics components. Most likely there is just a difference in settings somewhere between the two units.... or you just don't remember accurately (audio memory is terribly fallible).

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post #3616 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 10:07 AM
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Ditto for me, Ordered on Monday. Pending charge on CC but no shipping confirmation yet. Will be replacing a HK347, which I have been happy with, but alas have caught the upgrade bug

Got shipping confirmation 10 minutes ago. Apparently it was shipped Monday, and is in transit
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post #3617 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 10:30 AM
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Got shipping confirmation 10 minutes ago. Apparently it was shipped Monday, and is in transit

Me too. It should be delivered tomorrow!! I know what I'm doing this weekend
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post #3618 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Using Airplay to an Apple TV connected via optical has been shown to play to Zone 2/3 so it may be possible with Airplay alone.

Do you think the sound quality music from Apple TV to 3311 through Optical Out is equivalent to Denon 3311 with built-in Airplay? I would think so but wonder if I am missing some other advantage of Airplay being built into the 3311.

Can anyone comment on sound quality off 3311 vs 4311 when using either one as pre-amp only?
Also, I'm concerned that the 3311 apparently doesn't allow Audyssey Multeq XT to be applied when playing highest resolution multi-channel stuff but will I miss it?

Thanks!
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post #3619 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 11:14 AM
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Quote:


Do you think the sound quality music from Apple TV to 3311 through Optical Out is equivalent to Denon 3311 with built-in Airplay?

should be identical either way

Quote:


wonder if I am missing some other advantage of Airplay being built into the 3311.

honestly, I don't see any beyond the simplicity of fewer components. On the other hand, the ATV has several big advantages in that (1) it can do video streaming over Airplay as well and (2) it can stream Netflix and of course iTunes video rentals plus (3) it has a much nicer GUI interface

Quote:


Can anyone comment on sound quality off 3311 vs 4311 when using either one as pre-amp only?

the 4311 has two big advantages in that (1) it has the more sophisticated room correction software and (2) it can expand beyond 7 channels, up to 11 total. If you have a high-end speaker setup, and/or dual subwoofers, the 4311 will provide a pretty solid advantage in SQ. A lot depends on how much of an "audiophile" you are...

and, of course, if you ever want to try a 9- or 11-ch setup, the 4311 is the only option

for a "typical" 5.1 or 7.1 setup, with decent speakers and used mostly at moderate volumes, the 3311 is plenty.

Quote:


Also, I'm concerned that the 3311 apparently doesn't allow Audyssey Multeq XT to be applied when playing highest resolution multi-channel stuff but will I miss it?

probably not, there is very little actual content that would ever encounter this limitation

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post #3620 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there is no such thing as "burn-in time" for electronics components. Most likely there is just a difference in settings somewhere between the two units.... or you just don't remember accurately (audio memory is terribly fallible).

Correct, but they may have a warm up time of a few minutes.

Burn-in is a commonly referred to specification for advanced electronic components and assemblies and is used for testing purposes to assure the assembly doesn't have an infant mortality failure. In this industry, Bryston integrated amplifiers are tested for 100 hours (burn-in) at near clipping levels as a quality check. In this regard their spec exceeds many aerospace electonic assembly specifications. They also offer a 20 year warranty on the analog circuitry.
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post #3621 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 11:30 AM
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right, but I was responding to the concept of "burn-in" in the context of the OP's post, in which he was clearly referring to the idea that "burning-in" on an A/V component would appreciably alter the sound. He wasn't asking about "burn-in" in the sense of testing it for failure...

but I always appreciate precision, so thanks for the clarification

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post #3622 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

probably not, there is very little actual content that would ever encounter this limitation

Thanks Batpig. I'm grappling with spending 70% extra for the 4311ci.
Almost certainly I will not expand past 5.1
Multeq XT32 would be nice but seems like practically that's the only extra for me. I won't use the beefier amps (pre-amp mode only except maybe amps for surrounds), won't use the extra channels, and probably won't use the pre-amp inputs.

Do you think listening to a bitstreamed CD there is any 'audiophile' sound difference? Or is it the same since L/R DAC is identical to 4311ci?

If I buy the latest big name movies & concerts on Bluray right now will the limitation of no simulatenous Audyssey with highest resolution multi-channel come into play? Or are those only the specialized Bluray's like Nordic Sounds?

Update: Just read online that Celine Dion and Dave Matthews concerts are 96/24.
Does that mean I cannot play those on the 3311?, will the Audyssey turn off?, will the 3311ci downconvert? Can I get past the limitation by
having my HTPC (or Bluray player) decode and output as LPCM first?

Sorry for the questions, just seems like I can't get a clear answer for this on the 3311ci. I assume the 4311ci does it all no problem.


Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LD500 View Post

Update: Just read online that Celine Dion and Dave Matthews concerts are 96/24.
Does that mean I cannot play those on the 3311?, will the Audyssey turn off?, will the 3311ci downconvert? Can I get past the limitation by
having my HTPC (or Bluray player) decode and output as LPCM first?

Sorry for the questions, just seems like I can't get a clear answer for this on the 3311ci. I assume the 4311ci does it all no problem.

The 3311 (and lower models) are limited to 96khz (bitstream only, should be no restriction with LPCM) with Audyssey enabled so there should be no issues with the Celine concert. The 4311 has no such limitation.

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post #3624 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 01:11 PM
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Me too. It should be delivered tomorrow!! I know what I'm doing this weekend

Me too, ordered Monday early. WWS (amazon payments email) says it shipped today but tracking info says it shipped Tues and surprisingly it was delivered today! That was fast!
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post #3625 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 01:22 PM
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Batpig and Glandford, thanks to you both for the replies. Yes, I mean' "burn-in" as Batpig understood, but I guess I should have used another word, as I was indeed referring to SQ not reliability/testing.

I guess I'm influenced by headphones "burn-in" as in http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...ne-burn-in-faq

But true, only electronics in an AVR, no moving parts...

Anyway, I've redone a complete Audyssey calibration and I got the same sound as the other one (at least as I remember it), so either it's placebo, or something went wrong during the first calibration...

Thanks again for the replies.
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post #3626 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 02:07 PM
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but I always appreciate precision, so thanks for the clarification

You're welcome!! I figured you knew, I was clarifying for the OP.
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post #3627 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Batpig and Glandford, thanks to you both for the replies. Yes, I mean' "burn-in" as Batpig understood, but I guess I should have used another word, as I was indeed referring to SQ not reliability/testing.

I guess I'm influenced by headphones "burn-in" as in http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...ne-burn-in-faq

But true, only electronics in an AVR, no moving parts...

Anyway, I've redone a complete Audyssey calibration and I got the same sound as the other one (at least as I remember it), so either it's placebo, or something went wrong during the first calibration...

Thanks again for the replies.

i wouldn't be too influenced by that... that's a bit of wishful thinking on the part of the person who wrote it...

- chris

 

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post #3628 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the tip, i will go with Energy take 5.1's.
I wanted to buy good speakers and receiver( denon 3311).
I thought bose were good, but now i am convinced they are not after reading a lot of reviews.

Budget was not necessarily a concern per say, but wanted to have speakers that i would have used for a while and i believe in getting the good quality stuff as these big purchases cannot happen every year.

Btw the micros are expensive everywhere except crutchfield.com.

Hi
while i was about to purchase the energy take 5.1 speakers i noticed the following

Recommended Amplifier Power: 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)

now the AVR3311CI provides 125w per channel.

Would that be a problem ?
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post #3629 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 04:39 PM
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Nope...

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post #3630 of 10496 Old 12-02-2010, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by networkguru View Post

Hi
while i was about to purchase the energy take 5.1 speakers i noticed the following

Recommended Amplifier Power: 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)

now the AVR3311CI provides 125w per channel.

Would that be a problem ?

You'd have to be pumping out pretty ridiculous levels of volume to hit 100w x 5 continuous unless your house is a cathedral. The receiver might not even be able to put out 100w x 5 since the 125w rating is x 2 channels.
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