The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 10482 Old 07-07-2010, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

The firmware upgrade seemed to be progressing fine counting down from 13 minutes and showing different stages on the screen until it got to a part that says "Sub Updating" with 5 minutes remaining, and it has said that for the last 30 minutes.

I am worried it is stuck... but not sure if it will kill it to power off in the middle of a firmware update, so it's just sitting there for now.

You should not unplug it:

Manual p.89:

In order to use these functions, you must have the correct system requirements and settings for a broadband Internet connection (vpage 22).
Do not turn off the power until updating or upgrating is completed.
Even with a broadband connection to the Internet, approximately 1 hour is required for the updating/upgrading procedure to be completed.
Once updating/upgrade starts, normal operations on this unit cannot be performed until updating/upgrading is completed.
Furthermore, updating/upgrading the firmware may reset the backup data for the parameters, etc. set for this unit.
The following backup data may be erased after an update or upgrade.

Internet radio preset channel
Internet radio Recently Played data
Username registered for Flickr Contact
Data in Internet radio, media server and USB memory device

If the update or upgrade fails, press and hold the ON/STANDBY on the unit for more than 5 seconds, or remove and re-insert the power cord. Update retry appears on the display and update restarts from the point at which update failed. If the error continues despite this, check the network environment.
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post #542 of 10482 Old 07-07-2010, 11:13 PM
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Well it has been a long evening for me but slowly making progress.

Got the BDP-83 to do want I wanted, I wasn't get the True-HD and Master-DTS until I reran the setup on the Oppo, During the setup it asked if I had a HDMI 1.3+ compliant receiver, when I set it up originally I did not so it was down mixing everything to DTS. Took me a while to remember to do this.

BUT

My biggest issue is HDMI handshaking between my ancient FiOS DVR QIP-6416..grrrrrr ...(Love my FiOS PQ and stability, internet etc...but DVR HW blows)...WOW I tried every/lots of combination of settings and startup sequences and I finally have it working pretty good, but not how I really want. I had to leave the DVR on ( not that big deal because it is basically on all the time) but the only way I could reliably get it to handshake/sync with the panel was to set HDMI control to On, and set the Source to that input, Power control is off. And according to batpig site, that could use up to 30 watts to keep the HDMI circuits live...ughhh! Not sure I really want to do that long term energy wise or wear and tear.

Batpig, I noticed in your Denon-to-English Set FAQ (thanks again) that you comment the HDMI control on "Not only does it make any HDMI issues less likely, but you will be wasting less energy. " ...which ironically I might add has some "Denon-esque" grammatical "nuances"...an homage to Denon tech pubs possibly? but I think it does/may help it because it keeps the HDMI link alive and thus the handshake does not need to be reestablished, reducing issues in some cases. I still do not want it as a long term solution though.

So I am going to consider HDMI, straight to the Panel, and toslink to the AVR (my old setup)...bummer from a cable management but not from and audio/video fidelity perspective...or I suppose Component to the AVR. I was really hoping not to do either, I am open for suggestions.

BTW I noticed if you turn video convert OFF the GUI goes low res and does not overlay on the picture, not sure I understand why, and not sure if that will have any effect on the HDMI syncing...in my many permutations I can not remember.

Regarding the Harmony codes the "AVR 3311CI" (no "-") seems to be a good set of harmony codes.

The good thing is I can get around the menus pretty quick now

The Oppo doesn't seem to have this issue...

Ohh and I plan to run Audessy tomorrow really I swear/I hope, I noticed it is the first thing most of you run (naturally), I wanted to get these other issues out of the way first and hopefully enjoy the Audessy experience, that and the TDF is on and the Mrs. wants the DVR working (well so do I). Really I am interested in the audio, but the video setup for me always seems a little more challenging...and I am kinda particular about it.

I am getting a TriPod from a friend...how did the rest of you run Audessy setup...what did you set it on? or did you just "wing it"?

Ohh and good luck KYA my FW upgrade went smooth, but the count down was uneven, it stayed on the the last minute for several minutes but took ~20 minutes overall

Long Live The Gorn!
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post #543 of 10482 Old 07-07-2010, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno View Post

You should not unplug it...

Well, I got it fixed. Funny thing is, I did just that... unplug it. Here is the whole story:

It sat on that same screen saying "Sub Updating" for over an hour, and I found a thread with many people having Denon update woes for another model.

The first thing I tried was holding the power button down for > 5 seconds. Nothing.

So I unplugged it, plugged back in, and it resumed the update from where it left off, but died again in the same spot.

I noticed a user in the other thread who said he had U-Verse and was able to get it to work by bypassing his router. I was running from the U-verse box to my wireless router, from there to a D-Link switch, and then to the receiver.

I plugged the receiver's Ethernet cable directly into the U-Verse box, unplugged the Denon again, and this time when it resumed, it finished just fine.

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post #544 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 12:10 AM
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I have not had much time to mess with it, but I did go ahead and run Audyssey (all 8 positions using a tripod). When done I changed my mains back to small, and bumped the crossover of the mains from 40Hz to 80Hz. The surrounds defaulted to small/80Hz, so I didn't mess with them.

My first impression of the sound is:

- Surround sound is more present
- My phantom center channel is plenty loud and clear. Maybe even better than before.
- My sub sounds a bit anemic compared to what I am used to (which is probably way above reference).

I ran the THX trailer at the end of the Avatar BD which before would blow me out of the chair on bass (I have an Hsu VTF-3 MK3 subwoofer). Now it sounds nice and full, but the bass just underwhelms me. It seems like the bottom is missing something. Hard to describe but it's like I can hear it hitting low, but don't feel the pressure in the room change like I did before. It's late, and I'm done for the night, but I'll try just bumping the level on it and see if that brings me back to what I'm used to. If not, any quick suggestions on how to set up a Denon for a bass lover?

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post #545 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

I have not had much time to mess with it, but I did go ahead and run Audyssey (all 8 positions using a tripod). When done I changed my mains back to small, and bumped the crossover of the mains from 40Hz to 80Hz. The surrounds defaulted to small/80Hz, so I didn't mess with them.

My first impression of the sound is:

- Surround sound is more present
- My phantom center channel is plenty loud and clear. Maybe even better than before.
- My sub sounds a bit anemic compared to what I am used to (which is probably way above reference).

I ran the THX trailer at the end of the Avatar BD which before would blow me out of the chair on bass (I have an Hsu VTF-3 MK3 subwoofer). Now it sounds nice and full, but the bass just underwhelms me. It seems like the bottom is missing something. Hard to describe but it's like I can hear it hitting low, but don't feel the pressure in the room change like I did before. It's late, and I'm done for the night, but I'll try just bumping the level on it and see if that brings me back to what I'm used to. If not, any quick suggestions on how to set up a Denon for a bass lover?

I'm using a VTF-2 Mk3. I noticed that Audessey had set the level for the sub at about -12db (this is with the sub's volume control at about 12 o'clock), whereas the rest of the speakers were set much higher - from -3 to +1 db. I increased the sub's level slightly via the channel level setting, but I suppose you could just use the volume control on the sub. Also, make sure to defeat the sub's internal crossover (set the rear panel switch to "out").

I'm not sure yet whether some bass is 'missing' or if it's just less boomy after running Audessey. I suspect it's the latter. I'm using the "2 ports open" mode with the port plug removed, which also helps tighten up the bass.
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post #546 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mark754 View Post

I noticed that Audessey had set the level for the sub at about -12db (this is with the sub's volume control at about 12 o'clock), whereas the rest of the speakers were set much higher - from -3 to +1 db. I increased the sub's level slightly via the channel level setting, but I suppose you could just use the volume control on the sub.

After running AUTO SETUP, whenever you get a max level setting for the sub (either -12db or +12db) you need to first adjust the sub volume control and then rerun AUTO SETUP. In your case, the sub is too strong (likely in a corner) so knock it back to about 10 o'clock and then rerun AUTO SETUP. At that point it should come in around -2db or -3db. Then if you want stronger bass you can use the channel level setting.

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post #547 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 05:18 AM
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Anyone know if the OSD overlay issue exists with the PS3 if so can the PS3 settings be tweaked to allow the overlay?

Same thing with the TiVo Series 3?

Since I've moved all my components into my AV closet I've lost sight of the volume knob and with loud dogs and various other things I like to know the volume levels.
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post #548 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 08:25 AM
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Some follow up from this Last Night / AM

My DVR HDMI "Fix" with the HDMI control ON is really not acceptable, it always requires a *very* slow startup sequence and the AVR was warm (not HOT) in the morning after leaving HDMI control on all night. Going to try a couple more ideas then move to component into AVR or HDMI direct to panel, neither optimal.

Also, Can anyone tell me exactly what Video Convert does, say in the example that I am running HDMI in HDMI out and i/p scalar OFF.

One thing I know, when Video Convert is ON the GUI is overlayed, when OFF it is not...but what else is it doing to my precious Blu-ray signal?

Off to work...

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post #549 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 08:52 AM
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I've heard tell before that many newer receivers in this price range only can send analog audio out to zone 2/3. Can anyone confirm what types of audio input can be sent to zone 2/3? is it just analog sources or can optical/coax, usb or hdmi sources also be sent to the other zones?
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post #550 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrodex View Post

Anyone know if the OSD overlay issue exists with the PS3 if so can the PS3 settings be tweaked to allow the overlay?

what "overlay issue" are you talking about? I am not aware of any issues

overlay works perfectly with PS3.

the only "issues" that I know of with respect to overlay are:

1) an HDMI issue (reported on xx10 models) with certain cable/sat boxes where the scaler would get deactivated when switching from a 1080i to 720p channel, which is easily worked around if you get it

2) the fact that the scaler cannot overlay on top of 3D / x.v.Color sources, which is by design (and not an "issue")

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post #551 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RMetz1 View Post

I've heard tell before that many newer receivers in this price range only can send analog audio out to zone 2/3. Can anyone confirm what types of audio input can be sent to zone 2/3? is it just analog sources or can optical/coax, usb or hdmi sources also be sent to the other zones?

discussed already in this thread, described in the manual, AND covered in my FAQ http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#multizone

Zone 2/3 can do only: (1) analog audio and (2) 2.0 PCM from an optical/coax input.

No HDMI. No multichannel audio. Period

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post #552 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvader View Post

My DVR HDMI "Fix" with the HDMI control ON is really not acceptable, it always requires a *very* slow startup sequence and the AVR was warm (not HOT) in the morning after leaving HDMI control on all night. Going to try a couple more ideas then move to component into AVR or HDMI direct to panel, neither optimal.

if you've been following this thread, you know that HDMI handshake problems are very common with cable boxes. If you've already tried all your options, time to avoid the issue and either (1) go straight to TV with HDMI and optical to AVR or (2) go component+optical. Sorry but it's the DVR's fault, and you aren't alone you even called your DVR "ancient", so you can be sure it is the problem here.... have you checked to make sure the box's firmware is fully up-to-date? You could also try getting a new DVR.

Quote:


Also, Can anyone tell me exactly what Video Convert does, say in the example that I am running HDMI in HDMI out and i/p scalar OFF.

One thing I know, when Video Convert is ON the GUI is overlayed, when OFF it is not...but what else is it doing to my precious Blu-ray signal?

this is normal operation -- think about it, you turned OFF the video processing so it won't touch the video signal, and then you STILL want it to overlay graphics on top of the video? How can it overlay graphics without touching the video? You can't have your cake and eat it too

the good news is that there is no video degradation when the overlay is turned on, as there is with some receivers. If you are a paranoid "purist" and want to GUARANTEE that the video is untouched, then you can leave Video Convert OFF and deal with the fact that you don't get any overlay. But personally I find this to be a theoretical concern only, and I have better things to worry about my philosophy is, if I have to sit there scrutinizing test patterns to figure out if I can see a difference, then it doesn't matter.

Anyway, to answer your other question, you can think of the video section as two separate "blocks" in the unit. The scaling functions (i.e. the ABT chip) are separate from the basic video conversion/processing section. The ABT-2015 chip is not converting analog video to digital, or overlaying graphics on top of your video signals, or doing the picture adjustments (e.g. brightness, chroma, enhancer). The ABT "block" is simply where scaling and deinterlacing is done. If you turn off "i/p scaler" you are bypassing this block.

All the other video stuff passes through the conversion "block" which outputs the final HDMI video signal to the monitor output. This would be where an analog video signal becomes a nice 1080p digital output, and where video inputs can be processed and have additional graphics (e.g. GUI or volume overlay) and enhancements (e.g. Chroma, Contrast, Tint, etc) applied.

If you bypass this video conversion/processing "block", by turning Video Convert OFF, all the Denon can do is be a "dumb" switcher of video. It cannot cross convert formats (e.g. component > HDMI), it cannot touch the video signal at all (including overlaying graphics), all it can do is pass the video on through to the monitor output(s).

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post #553 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 11:36 AM
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Thanks, JD. I knew something was off with that setting, as it was basically defeating much of the sub's output. Yes, my sub is in a corner and I plan to do a crawl test to find the best place to put it. In its current location, I had to turn the sub's volume way down to about 20%, to get Audyssey to kick out a level setting of -2db, similar to the other speakers.

Since there's no "EQ check" available for the sub after running Audyssey, I guess it doesn't do much to equalize frequencies below 60hz, besides setting the level and the delay. It would be cool if Audyssey added a sub optimization feature in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

After running AUTO SETUP, whenever you get a max level setting for the sub (either -12db or +12db) you need to first adjust the sub volume control and then rerun AUTO SETUP. In your case, the sub is too strong (likely in a corner) so knock it back to about 10 o'clock and then rerun AUTO SETUP. At that point it should come in around -2db or -3db. Then if you want stronger bass you can use the channel level setting.

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post #554 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 12:27 PM
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Thanks, Batpig! Reading FAQ now. Great stuff!!!
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post #555 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark754 View Post

had to turn the sub's volume way down to about 20%, to get Audyssey to kick out a level setting of -2db, similar to the other speakers.

just FYI, there is absolutely no reason that the sub channel level needs to be similar to that of your other speakers. The point is that you don't want it MAXED OUT at +/-12, because that means Audyssey ran out of room trying to adjust it properly.

Quote:
Since there's no "EQ check" available for the sub after running Audyssey, I guess it doesn't do much to equalize frequencies below 60hz, besides setting the level and the delay.

100% false in fact, the filters on the subwoofer channel have 8 times the resolution of the speaker filters! (as shown in the chart here: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/m...lteq-solutions)

the "EQ check" is a simply a rough approximation of the Audyssey filtering (which actually is not in any way similar to "bands" on an equalizer) and the manufacturer chose not to show you a subwoofer graph for whatever reason.... that absolutely does not mean it isn't doing anything down there; in fact, on the contrary, the bulk of Audyssey's resources are devoted to correcting the subwoofer channel, since low frequencies are the most troublesome areas to control.

This massive advantage in processing on the subwoofer channel is one of the most important reasons why Audyssey ALWAYS recommends setting speakers to small, with a crossover of at minimum 80Hz, to direct as much of the low freq content to the subwoofer

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post #556 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the "EQ check" is a simply a rough approximation of the Audyssey filtering (which actually is not in any way similar to "bands" on an equalizer) and the manufacturer chose not to show you a subwoofer graph for whatever reason.... that absolutely does not mean it isn't doing anything down there; in fact, on the contrary, the bulk of Audyssey's resources are devoted to correcting the subwoofer channel, since low frequencies are the most troublesome areas to control.

This massive advantage in processing on the subwoofer channel is one of the most important reasons why Audyssey ALWAYS recommends setting speakers to small, with a crossover of at minimum 80Hz, to direct as much of the low freq content to the subwoofer

This is probably why my sub sounds so drastically different than what I am used to. On my Yamaha there was no EQ on the sub, just crossover. Problem is, I really liked what it was doing before (which was a lot more in your face than it is now). I won't get to mess with it until this evening, but I'm thinking that boosting the sub's level will probably not give me something similar to what I had before.

I do like the Dynamic EQ bringing the sub to audible levels at low volume. But not sure I like the shaping it did to the sub's sound at higher volumes. I feel like it filtered out some of what I love (and paid extra for) about my sub. The Hsu VTF-3 MK3 in Max Extension mode is tuned very low (18Hz I think, and it hits 16Hz easy). But those really low frequencies that are just at the threshold of audible (and more about feeling them) were probably way hot compared to reference. But since those do more shaking and room pressurizing than booming, my sub wasn't overly boomy before, so it was still easy on the ears. It just really moved things a lot.

I want my cake and eat it too. When I crank up a movie, I want the pictures on the walls to end up crooked, but I also want Dynamic EQ to bring out the lows when running at low volume. Is it really all Audyssey or no Audyssey?

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post #557 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:33 PM
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I contacted Denon today and they said it sounds like a handshake issue; I was getting green lines and then the picture would go out. He recommended I make sure all the fireware/software is upgraded on the TV, 3D Blue Ray, TV, and Harmony One remote. Next he said ensure the system is turned on in the following order, the receiver, the Blue Ray, and then the TV. This seemed to solve the problem. When I turn on the TV with the Harmony One remote I get the flickering screen problem. When I turn it on in the recommended order the problem does not occur. Now I have to figure out how to get the Harmony One remote to turn everything on in the recommended order.

I have the EXACT same issue here. I just got Denon 3311CI, Samsung PN63C8000, and the Samsung BD-C6900 bluray player. Everything is up to date firmware wise, and when I use my Harmony 880 to turn everything on...I either get no picture/signal on the TV or I do...then I get lines...and then I lose picture/signal. If I pop in a movie disc when it is in this situation..the movie starts playing..I see a picture and everything is fine from there.

If I am watching DirecTV, and use the harmony remote to switch to the bluray to watch a movie..all is fine.

If I start everything in the order you highlight below, everything is fine.

The issue seems to be when I attempt to use my harmony 880 remote to turn everything on to watch a movie on the bluray player.

So it definetly sounds like a handshaking issue.

I have the hi-speed HDMI cables from monoprice. Maybe when they get the new 1.4a cables it will be worth trying the new cable...otherwise...I can only hope a firmware update somewhere in the future resolves it.
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post #558 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:41 PM
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I got my 3311 installed and was playing with the video settings. The only component device I have is the Wii, so I have the Denon convert that to hdmi. If I have the Denon upscale this to any resolution other than it's native 480p, the picture doesn't fill the screen anymore, as if it is underscanning. Auto, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p all do this. If I select 480p or i/p scaler OFF the picture fits the screen correctly. The TV is a Panasonic 50G10 plasma. Any idea why?
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post #559 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by marcant7 View Post

I have the hi-speed HDMI cables from monoprice. Maybe when they get the new 1.4a cables it will be worth trying the new cable...otherwise...I can only hope a firmware update somewhere in the future resolves it.

The hi-speed cables you're using now are the same cables used with HMDI 1.3a or HDMI 1.4a components .... there's no difference. Turning the various HDMI components on in a specific order will sometimes solve HDMI handshake issues, although sometimes only temporarily.

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post #560 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:52 PM
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Mr Pig... First and foremost thanks for the time and effort.

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if you've been following this thread, you know that HDMI handshake problems are very common with cable boxes. If you've already tried all your options, time to avoid the issue and either (1) go straight to TV with HDMI and optical to AVR or (2) go component+optical. Sorry but it's the DVR's fault, and you aren't alone you even called your DVR "ancient", so you can be sure it is the problem here.... have you checked to make sure the box's firmware is fully up-to-date? You could also try getting a new DVR.

Yeah thanks, I really do have had a decent amount of experience with DVRs and HDMI...I happily "forget" about the issues except for every 3 years or so when I change out a display or DVR etc...then the challenges/frustration return. Somehow I was falsely hoping that the Denon would miraculously get in the middle and get the waring parties talking...oh well... sa la vie I am thinking I may go component through the AVR (Gasp!!) and convert to HDMI and see how it looks, I kinda like the solo HDMI to the display.


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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this is normal operation -- think about it, you turned OFF the video processing so it won't touch the video signal, and then you STILL want it to overlay graphics on top of the video? How can it overlay graphics without touching the video? You can't have your cake and eat it too

Thanks makes sense...but sure I want both, but I can make a more informed choice now.

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the good news is that there is no video degradation when the overlay is turned on, as there is with some receivers. If you are a paranoid "purist" and want to GUARANTEE that the video is untouched, then you can leave Video Convert OFF and deal with the fact that you don't get any overlay. But personally I find this to be a theoretical concern only, and I have better things to worry about my philosophy is, if I have to sit there scrutinizing test patterns to figure out if I can see a difference, then it doesn't matter.

Uh..ohh....were you watching me last night? ...uhh will probably do a test or two more and determine which way...really only a concern (minor at that) for the Oppo, and initial observation...nothing to report

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Anyway, to answer your other question, you can think of the video section as two separate "blocks" in the unit. The scaling functions (i.e. the ABT chip) are separate from the basic video conversion/processing section. The ABT-2015 chip is not converting analog video to digital, or overlaying graphics on top of your video signals, or doing the picture adjustments (e.g. brightness, chroma, enhancer). The ABT "block" is simply where scaling and deinterlacing is done. If you turn off "i/p scaler" you are bypassing this block.

All the other video stuff passes through the conversion "block" which outputs the final HDMI video signal to the monitor output. This would be where an analog video signal becomes a nice 1080p digital output, and where video inputs can be processed and have additional graphics (e.g. GUI or volume overlay) and enhancements (e.g. Chroma, Contrast, Tint, etc) applied.

If you bypass this video conversion/processing "block", by turning Video Convert OFF, all the Denon can do is be a "dumb" switcher of video. It cannot cross convert formats (e.g. component > HDMI), it cannot touch the video signal at all (including overlaying graphics), all it can do is pass the video on through to the monitor output(s).

Great clear explanation! I think I was coming to the same understanding (the ABT chips are used in the Oppo too) but that explanation definitely crystallized it.

Thanks again...I'll be back... hopefully with some audio questions next time

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post #561 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dpstrand View Post

I got my 3311 installed and was playing with the video settings. The only component device I have is the Wii, so I have the Denon convert that to hdmi. If I have the Denon upscale this to any resolution other than it's native 480p, the picture doesn't fill the screen anymore, as if it is underscanning. Auto, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p all do this. If I select 480p or i/p scaler OFF the picture fits the screen correctly. The TV is a Panasonic 50G10 plasma. Any idea why?

the TV is not underscanning, it's actually doing a 0% (full pixel) mode with a 1080p input. Many 1080p TV's lock into a "full pixel" mode when receiving a 1080p/1080i input, which is what you want. However, when a SD image (which may have underscan built into the signal) is converted to 1080p by an external device, before it gets to the display, the TV has no way of "knowing" that it is actually a standard def signal, so the 0% overscan is innappropriate because the Wii (and other sd devices) are "expecting" there to be the typical 2-3% overscan built into the display.

You will notice similar things with old game systems (e.g. PS2) when upconverting to 1080p... you can also even notice on standard def channels and old DVD's that there will be junk or black space on the extreme edges. 0% overscan is a brand new phenomenon with hi-def 1080i/p signals... for almost all of TV history overscan was a fact of life, so content producers didn't have to give a crap about the edges of the image.

If you go into your Panny's menus and change the size setting from "HD Size 2" to "Size 1" that will re-engage 3% overscan, and should restore a full screen Wii image.

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post #562 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 02:16 PM
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just FYI, there is absolutely no reason that the sub channel level needs to be similar to that of your other speakers. The point is that you don't want it MAXED OUT at +/-12, because that means Audyssey ran out of room trying to adjust it properly.

I realize that. With my Hsu sub, even backing the volume down to 10 o'clock resulted in a +10db setting, so I turned it down further to give Audyssey a little more breathing space for adjustment.

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100% false in fact, the filters on the subwoofer channel have 8 times the resolution of the speaker filters! (as shown in the chart here: http://www.audyssey.com/technology/m...lteq-solutions)

the "EQ check" is a simply a rough approximation of the Audyssey filtering (which actually is not in any way similar to "bands" on an equalizer) and the manufacturer chose not to show you a subwoofer graph for whatever reason.... that absolutely does not mean it isn't doing anything down there; in fact, on the contrary, the bulk of Audyssey's resources are devoted to correcting the subwoofer channel, since low frequencies are the most troublesome areas to control.

This massive advantage in processing on the subwoofer channel is one of the most important reasons why Audyssey ALWAYS recommends setting speakers to small, with a crossover of at minimum 80Hz, to direct as much of the low freq content to the subwoofer

Great! I guess I'll forget about doing the crawl test. Lots of good info on Audyssey's site. As far as manual speaker settings, should this be done before or after running auto setup, or does it not matter? Will auto setup override manual settings? Starting from the default settings, Multi EQ set my fronts and center to large, crossing over at 60 hz. Is a small setting suggested even for floor standing speakers?

BTW, Denon should pay you guys
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As far as manual speaker settings, should this be done before or after running auto setup, or does it not matter?

after, Audyssey wipes out your settings and ignores whatever you have already done. This and other tidbits are in my Audyssey FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

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Great! I guess I'll forget about doing the crawl test.

I wouldn't be quite so quick to abandon this part -- while Audyssey can do magic, that doesn't negate the need for manual optimization of your room acoustics before running auto setup. The better the starting point, the better the end results will be. If you are willing to work a bit to optimize room acoustic issues before running Audyssey, the results will be even better!

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Is a small setting suggested even for floor standing speakers?

ALWAYS = ALWAYS

read this: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/


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BTW, Denon should pay you guys

I'm waiting for my check!

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post #564 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by scubam View Post

Now I have to figure out how to get the Harmony One remote to turn everything on in the recommended order.

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Originally Posted by marcant7 View Post


The issue seems to be when I attempt to use my harmony 880 remote to turn everything on to watch a movie on the bluray player.

So you guys know that you can set the power on order and the delays/timing for the harmony...that helped me fix my issues in the past ... unfortunately not helping my current issues.

The start up order is defined in the activity...the timing delays are defined for each device.

So set the order the way you want, then go to the device and put in some power on and inter device delays, you may need to play with it a bit, but it definitely gives you some control.

Power on delays sends the command and then waits the specified time before sending another command to the same device...like change input. The inter device is the time after it sends it last command and then send the next command to the next device...those delays can kinda "stack" back to back too.

Give it a try...

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post #565 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bvader View Post

...the panel was to set HDMI control to On, and set the Source to that input, Power control is off. And according to batpig site, that could use up to 30 watts to keep the HDMI circuits live...ughhh! Not sure I really want to do that long term energy wise or wear and tear.

This was true for the 2009 and 2010 models; however, the 2011 models are more efficient, only using 2.2W when HDMI Control is set to ON.

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Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

This is probably why my sub sounds so drastically different than what I am used to. On my Yamaha there was no EQ on the sub, just crossover. Problem is, I really liked what it was doing before (which was a lot more in your face than it is now).

I don't think the Yammy "was doing" anything before... it's what it WASN'T doing that was the problem. In all likelihood you had a huge room mode that you had grown used to and really liked, and Audyssey has actually corrected this big boomy spot in the frequency response. So, for the first time, you are hearing "flat" bass.

Quote:
I feel like it filtered out some of what I love (and paid extra for) about my sub. The Hsu VTF-3 MK3 in Max Extension mode is tuned very low (18Hz I think, and it hits 16Hz easy).

just to be clear, you did not pay extra for the boominess, that is caused by your ROOM. Audyssey isn't taking away its performance, it's correcting a room acoustics issue.

this should be easy to test -- have you tried re-listening to a specific passage with MultEQ turned off?

as above, you may also be rewarded by playing around with subwoofer placement first and then re-running Audyssey.

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I want my cake and eat it too. When I crank up a movie, I want the pictures on the walls to end up crooked, but I also want Dynamic EQ to bring out the lows when running at low volume. Is it really all Audyssey or no Audyssey?

what I would suggest is (after messing with sub placement) simply raise the subwoofer channel trim. You like your bass a bit "hot", nothing wrong with that! Just turn it up!

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the TV is not underscanning, it's actually doing a 0% (full pixel) mode with a 1080p input. Many 1080p TV's lock into a "full pixel" mode when receiving a 1080p/1080i input, which is what you want. However, when a SD image (which may have underscan built into the signal) is converted to 1080p by an external device, before it gets to the display, the TV has no way of "knowing" that it is actually a standard def signal, so the 0% overscan is innappropriate because the Wii (and other sd devices) are "expecting" there to be the typical 2-3% overscan built into the display.

You will notice similar things with old game systems (e.g. PS2) when upconverting to 1080p... you can also even notice on standard def channels and old DVD's that there will be junk or black space on the extreme edges. 0% overscan is a brand new phenomenon with hi-def 1080i/p signals... for almost all of TV history overscan was a fact of life, so content producers didn't have to give a crap about the edges of the image.

If you go into your Panny's menus and change the size setting from "HD Size 2" to "Size 1" that will re-engage 3% overscan, and should restore a full screen Wii image.

Only problem with setting the Panny to Size 1, is then you will get overscan on your HD stations. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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post #568 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This was true for the 2009 and 2010 models; however, the 2011 models are more efficient, only using 2.2W when HDMI Control is set to ON.

Hmm thanks thats good to know.... that's better but the AVR was definitely not cold ...slightly warm only... in the AM when I checked. I will probably still go an alternate route because even with this the power on sequence need to be really slow, and does not always guarantee a successful handshake.

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post #569 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1) an HDMI issue (reported on xx10 models) with certain cable/sat boxes where the scaler would get deactivated when switching from a 1080i to 720p channel, which is easily worked around if you get it

And that work around is (aside from turning off scaling in the Denon)?
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post #570 of 10482 Old 07-08-2010, 03:31 PM
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option 1 - set the cable/sat box to a single resolution output for all HD channels (probably 1080i)... obviously this involves a slight compromise with certain channels (720p channels in this case), but IMO it's pretty negligible PQ-wise.

option 2 - the universal option for all cable box HDMI problems: use component video instead of HDMI!

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