The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Most people don't want to use their TV speakers anymore once they have a good speaker setup

Truth. Once I got a Harmony remote (which makes turning on the HT just as easy as turning on the TV) we never use the TV speakers. Ever.

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post #62 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

Unless you need the additional power, probably not.

So what about the AL24 bit processing? the 2311 doesn't have it and the 3311 yes... will improve the sound or not?
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post #63 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 10:00 AM
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I have some really nice Floor Speakers (Vandersteens) as well as my 5.1 HT speakers. Would I be able to do an A/B type setup so I could play music though the Floors and HT through the HT fronts. I may just use the Floors as my HT front speakers but they might be a bit of a mismatch for the rest of my HT speakers. Just curious, not really a must have.

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post #64 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photobias View Post

So what about the AL24 bit processing? the 2311 doesn't have it and the 3311 yes... will improve the sound or not?

I spoke to Denon it has AL24 + bit processing,

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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post #65 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 10:21 AM
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bvader -

You can connect your Floors to the Amp Assign/Surround Back speaker jacks and set them up as Front "B" speakers in STEREO mode for music listening only.

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post #66 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backset View Post

For what its worth, I popped into my local best buy yesterday and the manager informed me they would have the 3311 on June 27th. Again, for what thats worth.

Thanks for posting this info.. I hope you are right as I am waiting to get it at best buy... Strange its not showing up on their website as coming soon... Oh well. We'll see.
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post #67 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

bvader -

You can connect your Floors to the Amp Assign/Surround Back speaker jacks and set them up as Front "B" speakers in STEREO mode for music listening only.

I guess you can do the same when introducing a 2ch pre with HT-bypass to the 3311Ci as well?

Just asking.

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post #68 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by extreme22 View Post

I spoke to Denon it has AL24 + bit processing,

Yes, I know the 3311 has it, but it will improve the quality sound vs the 2310?
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post #69 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

bvader -

You can connect your Floors to the Amp Assign/Surround Back speaker jacks and set them up as Front "B" speakers in STEREO mode for music listening only.

Very cool, thanks!

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post #70 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I guess it's time to do this (Petrus, maybe put this in post #2):

What would also be good to include in an early post would be the differences (if any) between the 3311ci and the 991.
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post #71 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 04:40 PM
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it's interesting that the 991 isn't even up on Denon's website.... (for that matter neither is the new entry-level 391)

in prior years, the only real difference between 990 and 3310 (or 989 and 2809) was the enhanced zone support, 3-zone/3-source vs 2/2 and and more flexible multizone options (e.g. bass/treble control, stereo/mono switching, etc). However, the latter part (zone 2 flexibility) has trickled down to the 2310CI this year, so it will definitely be in the 991..... so the only difference may be 2 zones vs 3?

the 991 supposedly will have a $999 msrp (vs $1199 on the 3311CI) so it seems like there has to be something else...

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post #72 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I'm not going to post listening impressions until I've had some time with it and run Audyssey.
So that's it for now...

DreamCatcher

I would really be interested in your comparrison notes on the 3311 vs the 4810, as I would really like to upgrade to the 4810 from a 989 (aka 2809)

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post #73 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 07:10 PM
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Do you know what Denon is using for digital to analog converter for yhe 3311

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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post #74 of 10482 Old 06-23-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the 991 supposedly will have a $999 msrp (vs $1199 on the 3311CI) so it seems like there has to be something else...

Maybe it's a pricing game? The wholesale price may be the same, but the CI unit might have a higher MSRP to give installers more margin?
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post #75 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 03:44 AM
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I spoke to denon, they told me that Best Buy will not carry any ci products only custom shops. So I'm confused about someone claiming a June 27 release at Best Buy. I hope so as I prefer buying stuff like this in stores. Any Info on this issue is appreciated.
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post #76 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybernut2000 View Post

I spoke to denon, they told me that Best Buy will not carry any ci products only custom shops. So I'm confused about someone claiming a June 27 release at Best Buy. I hope so as I prefer buying stuff like this in stores. Any Info on this issue is appreciated.

Best Buy typically carries the 3 digit line where the 4 digit line is in the Magnolia division. Maybe the June 27 date is when it hits the Magnolia stores.

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post #77 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk68 View Post

Best Buy typically carries the 3 digit line where the 4 digit line is in the Magnolia division. Maybe the June 27 date is when it hits the Magnolia stores.

I should have clarified that the Best Buy I stopped into was a Magnolia store, all of them around me seem to be. Anyway the only reason I gave that manager any credit is that he spit out that date and the correct MSRP without any hesitation at all, which gave me some confidence.
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post #78 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 06:20 AM
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So i spoke to my contact within Denon the 3311 is using for DAC AKM from Japan which is what they are currently using in there 5000 series BD Player

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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post #79 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

My 3311 has arrived!
I've unboxed it, hooked it up and completed setup (accept running Audyssey which I will run tomorrow)...
It is replacing a Denon 4810 and previous to that a 4310.
I know it's a tall order and a lot to ask of the 3311 but it has the features that I need, 2 HDMI outputs, Audyssey MultEQ XT, ABT Video Processing, 6 HDMI inputs, cool GUI and Networking, and all the audio and video inputs that I need and on paper should be powerful enough to drive my speaker system (NHT Absolute Towers, Classic 2 Center, and 4 Absolute Zero surround speakers).
The updated GUI took a little getting use to compared to the GUI of the 4810/4310. I'm not sure if it's an upgrade from the previous GUI but it's certainly an upgrade from what you find on Onkyo's and such.
It does away with the symbols/pictures and uses more simple navigation icons. Not sure if this is just for the "lesser" 3xxx models versus the 43/48xx
models.
I'm not going to post listening impressions until I've had some time with it and run Audyssey.
So that's it for now... oh and the Network works flawlessly... so far.

DreamCatcher

I'd really be very interested in hearing your impressions about the audio performance compared to your 4310 and 4810. I used to own a 4310, but sold that in hopes of picking up a 4810, but then decided to wait it out to get something with HDMI 1.4. Now I was dead set on waiting for the 4311, since the potential 4811 drop date is really far out.

My main concern is really how sonically comparable the 3311 is to the 4310.

Thanks in advance.
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post #80 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Receiver received and in great shape. Set it up last night (haven't had a chance to do Audessey). Quick question that I know has been answered, but I can't find:

How do you set up different video processing per input? I want to turn off scaling on my Blu-Ray input, but give it a try off my cable box input. It appears to be applying the same setting to all inputs when I attempt this in Menu> Input Setup> Video> Video Select. Any suggestions?

Looking forward to getting this fully configured so I can report back on audio, but so far, loving the features!

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post #81 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

Receiver received and in great shape. Set it up last night (haven't had a chance to do Audessey). Quick question that I know has been answered, but I can't find:

How do you set up different video processing per input? I want to turn off scaling on my Blu-Ray input, but give it a try off my cable box input. It appears to be applying the same setting to all inputs when I attempt this in Menu> Input Setup> Video> Video Select. Any suggestions?

Looking forward to getting this fully configured so I can report back on audio, but so far, loving the features!

I was having the same issue then realized I needed to be in the input that I wanted to setup. In other words, you need to select say BD input then go into the video setup menu and do the video setup for that input.

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post #82 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 08:20 AM
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I have never owned a Denon product but this unit has me interested. I currently have an Onkyo 705 that I just use as a processor. I also have an Emotiva UMC-1 that I am about to give up on although I love the sound. Regardless of whether I get something new or stick with one of the above, power comes an XPA-3 and XPA-5, both of which I am very happy with. You long time Denon owners, do you have any sense of whether this unit will be a good one for a first time buyer of Denon? Any ideas on how the sound in general compares to Onkyo?
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post #83 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I was having the same issue then realized I needed to be in the input that I wanted to setup. In other words, you need to select say BD input then go into the video setup menu and do the video setup for that input.

DreamCatcher

I tried that, but when you, for instance, then proceed to CBL/SAT and change the settings there, when you go back to BD, the settings are what you did for CBL/SAT. I doesn't appear to be holding the settings. I'll try some further tests tonight.

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post #84 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:


It appears to be applying the same setting to all inputs when I attempt this in Menu> Input Setup> Video> Video Select. Any suggestions?

this is the problem -- Video Select does not select the input you are working with!!

You have to physically exit the GUI, switch your input, then re-open the GUI and go to Input Setup > Video and then change the video for that input.

The "Video Select" feature is a different deal, it is for mixing a different video source with a specific audio stream. It is not an input selector within the menu...

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post #85 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaltby View Post

Alright, after a day of setup and playing, here are my initial impressions.

I received the 3311 from OneCall yesterday. It was double boxed, but the remotes were loose within the Denon box. Everything else was securely taped down.

First some context. This is my first Denon AVR. It's replacing an 11 year old Sony STR-DB930 after the rear channels failed. My primary purpose is to replace a now ancient receiver, while getting all the latest audio formats, add network capabilities and do as much future proofing as possible. Obviously I don't swap out my AVR gear frequently.

The main components in my setup are:
Samsung 1080p TV LN-T5271F
LG BD-390 Blu Ray player
Motorola DCH3416 DVR (Comcast)
AppleTV
Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers
Harmony One

So far, I've been very pleased with the 3311, with a few qualifications.

After hearing of the network card issues on the 3310, it was a relief that networking worked right out of the box, with absolutely no setup at all. I setup a few internet radio favorites, played a few of my Pandora stations, and played a few mp3 tracks from my media server (Mac). It all worked perfectly.

I thought I read in previous manuals that there was a Denon website where I had to create/manage my internet radio favorites, so it's a positive that I can favorite them directly from the 3311.

One thing I didn't like about the network interface is that going out (left) of a track and then back into same audio file restarts the track. Also, my mp3 cover art (embedded in all files) did not always display correctly. It showed the correct artwork at first, then went back to the last track's art. I don't know if it's a DLNA or 3311 issue. Another bit I don't care for is the gray background of the internet radio UI...it looks like I have poor black levels. I think I'd prefer the background to be black rather than gray.

At some point while exiting from a network function, I was notified of a firmware update, so I did it. The notification said it would take 13 min, but it took longer. It did a ROM, SUB and Ethernet update, and the first 2 took about 10 minutes, but the Ethernet update said 1 min remaining for 10 minutes or more, which was concerning. It did finish successfully, it just took longer than the status indicator on the unit said. I didn't notice any differences after the update, so I don't know what it contained.

I do like having all the additional sources I didn't have before, such as Internet radio, HD Radio, satellite radio, iPod/iPhone, DLNA media server. The one disappointment to me here is that it doesn't play video in any format from my media server, so I'll have to stick with the BD390 and AppleTV for that.

My 10MP .jpg photos are also displayed in very, very low resolution, so I haven't figured out if that's a result of a 3311 setting or my DLNA server (MediaLink). Displaying Flickr photos were fine. The BD390, using CIFS, displays the same pics perfectly. I'm not really sold on running DLNA servers rather than providing native CIFS/SMB support, like the LG does.

My iPhone 3Gs plays directly from the USB port on the front. No dock required, which I understand is an upgrade from the 3310. Optimally, I'd prefer a USB port on the rear so the door doesn't need to be open. There is a Denon iPod dock port in back, so it's an option, but at added cost.

I haven't done the Audyssey setup, so I can't speak to that, yet.

Both video and audio are very good to my eyes and ears. I have the BD390, Moto DVR going through the 3311. Netflix HD streaming (Sin Nombre) via the BD390 looked better through the 3311's up-conversion than directly from the BD390. I also like that it does DD PLII Cinema audio for surround until Netflix delivers 5.1 audio.

I played Avatar Blu Ray and both audio and video were excellent. I'm glad to finally have the HD audio formats decoded. I also played the Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus. Both audio and video were very solid in my book.

One odd thing about the audio, though, is the volume seems to require a much higher level than my old Sony. The volume dial also requires a lot of turning to change the volume. I've gone back and forth on using relative or absolute volume, but they both require substantially higher volumes for normal film viewing. I'd say 60-70 (out of 99) on the absolute scale and 0 on the relative scale just for normal viewing. I know you can add volume for each source or speaker in the setup, but that doesn't seem like the right approach. Am I missing something?

I do wish Denon hadn't removed the switched AC input this year (the 3310 had one). I also miss the blue indicator for 5+.1 formats on the Sony, especially for cable TV when it's not always known. My receiver is not in direct line of sight, but in a cabinet at a 90 degree angle to where I sit. Seeing the blue light on the Sony told me all was well.

The remote itself isn't anything great (lots of buttons), and the response angle and range of the 3311 are not nearly as good as my old Sony. The manual says it's 30 degrees off center and that seems rigidly accurate. I've had a Harmony One that worked very well to adjust volume, at 90 degrees, on the Sony with my cabinet open, but it appears the RF of the Harmony 900 will be necessary. I've avoided it thus far because I've read about how sluggish the 900's response is. I guess I'll have to see for myself.

On the 3311's GUI...it's ok. I think Sony has a better, more graphic PS3-like GUI. Denon's is functional, if spartan, but it's much better than nothing on my old Sony. It's absolutely a big step up, but probably not as good as the Sony GUI.

Also, the GUI on some sources is semi-transparent, allowing the video behind it to show through. When playing Avatar Blu Ray, though, the menu completely replaces the video (opaque). The same thing on the Internet Radio UI. I'm not sure if there's a setting I'm missing or if this is as developed. The manual says that the menu replaces the video when playing a 3D source, so I don't understand why these sources produce an opaque menu. I have high speed HDMI cables (1.3 C2), so I suppose it could interpret that as 3D? It also doesn't show volume changes over HDMI on some sources, for example when I play a disc via Blu Ray. The GUI overlay on the Moto DVR is semi-transparent so I can see the video behind it, but on the BD and Net/USB input, it's opaque. Again, it could be a setting I'm missing.

The web interface is promising, but not really a reason to buy the 3311. I wasn't able to get it to save my configuration off to a file, but it might be due to using Safari rather than IE or Firefox. It would be handy to have a config backup in case a reset were ever necessary. The control interface from iPhone is also ok, but too textual. I've seen a few apps that seem to control Denon AVRs in a more graphical UI, but the reviews were mixed. Any recommendations?

Well, that's about all I have for now. I'd be happy to hear from experienced Denon users with insight into settings that I might be missing. Are there specific things people would like me to check/test on the 3311?

Regards,
Doug

here is Denon answers

network interface is that going out (left) of a track and then back into same audio file restarts the track.Yes this is how it works

Does this unit play video in any other format from media server? When streaming to 3311
3311 supports audio and photo streaming only, no videos.

Is GUI on some sources is semi-transparent, does it allow the video behind it to show through.Yes
When playing Blu Ray,does the menu completely replaces the video Only if the Blu-ray signal is 3D.

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post #86 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

What would also be good to include in an early post would be the differences (if any) between the 3311ci and the 991.

I'll put the info for the 991 in the first two posts when Denon posts it on their site. So far, the 991 is suspiciously absent

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post #87 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this is the problem -- Video Select does not select the input you are working with!!

You have to physically exit the GUI, switch your input, then re-open the GUI and go to Input Setup > Video and then change the video for that input.

The "Video Select" feature is a different deal, it is for mixing a different video source with a specific audio stream. It is not an input selector within the menu...

That is exactly the test I was going to try tonight. Thanks a ton, Batpig! You are the man!

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post #88 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

That is exactly the test I was going to try tonight. Thanks a ton, Batpig! You are the man!

hey that's what i said first.... but batpig said it much better
One of the things I like about the Denon's compared to other brands,
is the ability to control, per input, Video Processing and Audyssey both.
Some give you one or the other per input but only Denon, in my experience, gives you both at this (3311) price point.

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post #89 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 11:28 AM
 
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I am thinking on upgrading to an 2311ci or 3311ci from an 1909,there is only a 235 dollar price difference between the two,would it be worth it to go for the 3311,or just maybe settle for the 1911??
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post #90 of 10482 Old 06-24-2010, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

hey that's what i said first.... but batpig said it much better
One of the things I like about the Denon's compared to other brands,
is the ability to control, per input, Video Processing and Audyssey both.
Some give you one or the other per input but only Denon, in my experience, gives you both at this (3311) price point.

DreamCatcher

Your response gave me the idea to do the test that Batpig later said would fix my issue. Sorry, forgot to that you, too! Thanks man!

Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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