The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 02:45 PM
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spades do not work with Denon binding posts. You can use bare wire or pins (inserted into the hole at the base of the binding post) or banana plugs.

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post #992 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezlotogura View Post

Spades - does the back of this receiver (3311ci) work well with spade terminals for my speaker wire? Would rather do spades over Bananas if possible. I searched the manual, did a keyword search for spade, and I got zero hits. Thoughts?

They certainly look like standard 5-way binding posts. As such, they should accommodate spade terminals.
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

spades do not work with Denon binding posts. You can use bare wire or pins (inserted into the hole at the base of the binding post) or banana plugs.

Why not? Is it the space between the posts?
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post #993 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garypen View Post

You should buy a handful from Monoprice, just to have some spares. They're like $2 each or something. At that price, you can leave one at work, and one by your home PC, and one by the Denon, and one in your car, and one in...



True, I think I'll do that..

I have a bunch of HDMi at home from MP stock piled, every time I hear someone at work go down the story on how some punk pressured them on buying some crapo wires when buying thier flat screen..I tell them return it and your money back, I'll bring one that does the same thing

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post #994 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garypen View Post

They certainly look like standard 5-way binding posts. As such, they should accommodate spade terminals.
Why not? Is it the space between the posts?

Nope they don't work at all, I had to put banana extension type thingys, until I hooked my external amp. My center cable, had to be re terminate not enough room back there either..


The truth is bananas are so much easier to work with anyways, I have spades going to my speakers ends though..

Djoel
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post #995 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 02:57 PM
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spades don't fit because there is no gap at the base of the binding post for them to slide into. there is a plastic sheath covering the base of the binding post with a small hole for inserting bare wire.... you can see this in the diagram on pg 4 of the 3311 manual. There is a small hole for the wire to insert into, but the binding post doesn't screw up far enough to leave a full gap at the base for slipping a spade in.

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post #996 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Smart strips can vary, however, and although I've never used it personally, this one from SmartHomeUSA has a sensitivity switch that can be adjusted to allow for different wattage changes in the equipment connected.

Hmmm. One interesting advantage of a smart strip is that it should work with both the 3311CI and the 991. The 991 doesn't have a 12V trigger output.
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post #997 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Nope they don't work at all, I had to put banana extension type thingys, until I hooked my external amp. My center cable, had to be re terminate not enough room back there either..


The truth is bananas are so much easier to work with anyways, I have spades going to my speakers ends though..

Djoel

I use bananas, as well. But, spades would come in handy for those with space issues. I guess those with clearance issues would have to resort to pins. Bare wire is a PITA.
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post #998 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
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Thanks for the tip about using the USB port in remote operation. Works great with both the Iphone4 and Ipad. I like to stream a web radio station that is not on the Denon list. It used to be a channel on XM called MOJA, a modern jazz station with a twist. They've gone indie and subscription and now stream hi-fi so it's great to have this option to listen using my home system with the Denon in all it's glory. It sounds superb!

I wonder if subscription stations can be added to the GUI?
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post #999 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Radicus View Post

I wonder if subscription stations can be added to the GUI?

If it streams in either MP3 or WMA format, and there is a way to incorporate the login info into the URL, then it is probably doable using the "add stations" page in the vTuner Denon setup website.
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post #1000 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

spades don't fit because there is no gap at the base of the binding post for them to slide into. there is a plastic sheath covering the base of the binding post with a small hole for inserting bare wire.... you can see this in the diagram on pg 4 of the 3311 manual. There is a small hole for the wire to insert into, but the binding post doesn't screw up far enough to leave a full gap at the base for slipping a spade in.

easy decision then - looks like banana plugs on the end going into the AVR and spades on the end going onto the speakers.

Another question if you all do not mind - anyone using the 3311ci in bi-amp model? I will be pairing this AVR with Quad 22L2 for my L/R (with Quad L-ite center and Quad L2 sub, no surrounds for now). Am I really going to get more bang for my buck buying enough speaker wire to go bi-amp (another 2 runs of 8')?
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post #1001 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezlotogura View Post

Another question if you all do not mind - anyone using the 3311ci in bi-amp model? I will be pairing this AVR with Quad 22L2 for my L/R (with Quad L-ite center and Quad L2 sub, no surrounds for now). Am I really going to get more bang for my buck buying enough speaker wire to go bi-amp (another 2 runs of 8')?

Only your ears can give you that answer. Nice speakers btw and they can handle some serious power. I would drive those with some outboard amps. They should really sing.

Best Regards,

JD
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post #1002 of 10527 Old 07-20-2010, 09:40 PM
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My dvd player is standard player with progressive scan feature. I wonder if I connect it to 3311ci through component cable, can the receiver upscale the dvd output to 1080p/24Hz?

Thanks!

Lou
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post #1003 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdskycaster View Post

Only your ears can give you that answer. Nice speakers btw and they can handle some serious power. I would drive those with some outboard amps. They should really sing.

Best Regards,

JD

thanks for the compliment on the speakers.

The reason I'm asking if bi-amping will make a difference because I am getting near the end of my budget. I am moving, and getting a lot of stuff at once (3d tv, the speakers, the AVR, not to mention furniture for the house, etc). No way I can get an outboard amp right now :-( I could maybe squeeze out a few more pennies to get another 2 runs of wire to bi-amp now, or maybe just keep it to one single connection now, and in a year or so, when I get the itch to upgrade, maybe just get an outboard amp at that point, and it will be a "low cost" way to get an upgrade without changing up everything? the 3311ci has the preouts or whatever to add an outboard amp down the line, correct?
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post #1004 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmatrix View Post

My dvd player is standard player with progressive scan feature. I wonder if I connect it to 3311ci through component cable, can the receiver upscale the dvd output to 1080p/24Hz?

Thanks!

Lou

It can certainly convert/upscale a 480i/60hz to 1080p/60, however, the source must be in 24hz in order to upscale/convert to 1080p/24.

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post #1005 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezlotogura View Post

....the 3311ci has the preouts or whatever to add an outboard amp down the line, correct?

Correct the 3311 has a full set of pre-outs whereas the 991 does not have them. Also, studies have shown that "passive" bi-amping (ie using the bi-amp mode in an AVR) adds no real benefit. Rather the benefit is seen when you add an external amp with external crossover switches.

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post #1006 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garypen View Post

You should buy a handful from Monoprice, just to have some spares. They're like $2 each or something. At that price, you can leave one at work, and one by your home PC, and one by the Denon, and one in your car, and one in...

I'm using an off-brand, but I mention it because it's really cheap (with free shipping), and it's black (white kind of stands out against the black AVR):

HERE is a link, and if you need 6.5 feet, HERE is a link.

I doubt the build quality is anywhere close to the original Apple cable or whatever www.monoprice.com is selling, but we're talking data transfer here, so if it works at all, the quality should be identical to a really nice cable, and I can confirm it works fine.

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post #1007 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct the 3311 has a full set of pre-outs whereas the 991 does not have them. ...

The pre-outs was a definite bonus for me I inherited one of these Aragon 8008BB semi-oldschool 400W/4ohm monsters from my audiophile pops-in-law.



I am going hook up to drive the Vandersteens one this days. I will be my first "outboard" amp ... should be fun, when I get room and time.

Long Live The Gorn!
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post #1008 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It can certainly convert/upscale a 480i/60hz to 1080p/60, however, the source must be in 24hz in order to upscale/convert to 1080p/24.

just to be clear, the ABT-2015 actually CAN convert any source input to 1080p/24. Framerate conversion is one of the features of the ABT-2010 and 2015 chips.... It just might look end up looking like crap if the original source material wasn't 24fps!

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post #1009 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 09:33 AM
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Although a feature of the 2015, is it implemented in the AVR? The manual implies that the source must be 24hz and specifically notes that a 50hz signal cannot be converted to 1080p/24.

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post #1010 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 09:41 AM
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I have definitely done it with my AVR 2310. Any input signal can be converted to 1080p/24 output if you set the resolution output setting to 1080p/24 (vice "auto").

I played with this a bit when I recently got a new display that can handle 24hz input properly, I have taken 1080i/60 output from my HD DVD player (which can't output 1080p) and used the AVR to convert to 1080p/24. I also played with some other signal inputs but the results weren't always pretty

To me, the manual (e.g. pg 71 of the 3311ci manual) doesn't imply that it CAN'T be done, only that they recommend against it for non-24hz sources.

I have no ideal about 50hz inputs, that's PAL right?

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post #1011 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 09:54 AM
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Good to know and yes, 50hz is PAL although likely not an issue with the EU models.

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post #1012 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

it will work fine, but the Denon does not directly decode the DSD audio from SACD, so you just set the Oppo to decode it first and it will send it multich PCM to the receiver over HDMI. That may be the limitation you were thinking of.

the Onk 300x is in a bit of a different class, probably more comparable to the Denon 43xx/48xx models. It probably weighs 2x as much as the 3311!

Thanks...that's what I thought would be the case but I wanted to make sure.

Also, I didn't really think the Onkyo 300x and the Denon 3311 would be an apples to apples comparison but since I'm not sure what the costs will be, not sure the higher end models will fit within my financial plans.

You never know though.

Regards,
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post #1013 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
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So Audyssey is setting my left and right Mythos Ones at a 200Hz crossover. This seems way high to me. I know they produce lower than that.

All I've seen suggested is to place them closer to a wall, but I don't really have any limbo in terms of where I can position them.

Any ideas what else I can try?
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post #1014 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 03:30 PM
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200Hz does seem excessively high... are you sure you wired them up correctly? if the speakers have dual binding posts (for bi-wire) make sure that the jumper is in place and the woofers are getting a signal.

assuming that part is fine, definitely try moving them a bit. even a few inches may help if you are getting a nasty room mode that is sucking out the bass. skootch them a few inches and maybe toe them in a bit or something, and try re-running Audyssey.

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post #1015 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvader View Post

The pre-outs was a definite bonus for me I inherited one of these Aragon 8008BB semi-oldschool 400W/4ohm monsters from my audiophile pops-in-law.



I am going hook up to drive the Vandersteens one this days. I will be my first "outboard" amp ... should be fun, when I get room and time.

The 8008BB is a classic and a very excellent amplifier. It is really not a 400W/ch amp since it can actually take the full 15A from a 120V outlet and convert that to output power (1800W total). I would not leave this on the shelf for very long. Fire it up and enjoy it!

JD
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post #1016 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

200Hz does seem excessively high... are you sure you wired them up correctly? if the speakers have dual binding posts (for bi-wire) make sure that the jumper is in place and the woofers are getting a signal.

assuming that part is fine, definitely try moving them a bit. even a few inches may help if you are getting a nasty room mode that is sucking out the bass. skootch them a few inches and maybe toe them in a bit or something, and try re-running Audyssey.

They are definitely wired correctly. No dual binding posts.

I tried moving the speakers around and I still get 200Hz every time.

My main seating position is a couch against a wall. I know in your guide you mention not to have it too close to any walls. I have the microphone right at ear level in the main seating position, but it's close to the wall (about 2 feet). If I move the microphone farther away from the wall, I can get 150Hz, which is a little better but still seems high. I can't seem to do any better than 150Hz no matter how far or close I place the microphone to the wall.

Strangely my center, which is at exactly the same distance as the left and right, gets 120Hz.
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post #1017 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 04:56 PM
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On paper the Mythos One goes down to 20hz so there's definitely something amiss. Keep in mind there is only one setting seperating each of those readings ..120-150-200. Are you using a tripod to support the mic?

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post #1018 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Keep in mind there is only one setting seperating each of those readings ..120-150-200. Are you using a tripod to support the mic?

Ah yes, good point. I tend to forget the receiver selects the crossover point.

Yes, I am a photographer and am using a high quality carbon fiber tripod.
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post #1019 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 05:03 PM
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Hmmm if I move the mic significantly forward of the listening position, like 2 feet, I can get 120 and 100 for my L/R and center, respectively.

So, would it be "ok" to do the Audyssey setup at this distance, to get more realistic crossover settings, and then manually bump up the distances after the fact? I know bumping down the selected crossover point is a no-no. Or is this cheating the system, and I have some inherent problem in my room configuration?
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post #1020 of 10527 Old 07-21-2010, 05:05 PM
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Confirm that you got a DM-A409 mic. It's possible the mic is defective. If not already tried, place the mic just a few feet in front of the mains and see if you get the same high frequency crossover.

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