The **Official** Denon 3311CI/ 991 Owner's Thread NO PRICE TALK - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 12:38 AM
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This is our first home theater system; so much of what I read on this thread went over my head. But I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem we had.

We just got our 3311 installed and we did notice some problems. Our system includes a Samsung 46 inch 8000 3D LED TV (46C8000) and a Samsung 3D Blue Ray player (our old/ancient set up was in dire need of replacement). At first it seemed as though the 3311 would not work with the Blue Ray. The picture would flicker and then go out so we updated the firmware which seemed to solve the problem temporarily. But it went back to flickering. Next we updated the firmware on the Blue Ray which again seemed to fix the problem but it went back to the flickering. All the firmware is up to date on both the 3311 and Blue Ray player. We also had problems streaming Netflix. It seems to be working now but only after unplugging and replugging in the HDMI cable; not sure if the problem is fixed. Anyone else experience this problem? Sorry if I am not using the right terms?
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post #152 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 07:10 AM
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Answers please

1) can I listen to Pandora/inertnet radio while using my PS3 [web surfing] with the 3310, can the 3310 also manage this. i have the 3808 and this is not possble.

2) I'l be using DT speakers 7002 [mains] in a 5.0 config at first without using the subs [built in to each speaker], will the Audyssey XT be more helpful after i start using the sub function of the mains or will the 3310 Audyssey be similar. I'll also ask the DT thread owners but I want to to hear from AVR owner also.

This is all to help me pick either 3310 or 3311, if these points are the same then the few smaller upgrades are not worth the extra cash right now.

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post #153 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

It's interesting, I have my OPPO 83 set to output SACD and connected to the 3311 via HDMI only. SACD's play with no issues but when I check the audio input signal on the info menu of the 3311 it displays PCM 88khz.
I guess the OPPO knows somehow that the 3311 won't decode SACD.

DreamCatcher

Hmm. I believe I had to set my Oppo DV-980H to output DSD, rather than LPCM. So I assume I would have to set it to output LPCM if I got the 3311.

I also see that the 3311 doesn't decode HDCD either. I have only a few HDCDs, but I really enjoy their sound. What would be the effect of playing them through the 3311, which doesn't decode that format?

I wonder why Denon chose not to include decoding for these formats. I know there is a debate about whether it matters which unit does the decoding, but it seems strange that my older receiver decodes those formats, while the 3311 doesn't.

I'm very interested in the 3311, but I'm also wondering how much of a step up it would be from my Yamaha RX-V1800. I know the Audyssey is better, and the 3311 has some features I like. I'm not sure how much I would use the networking features, but maybe I eventually would.

I have a 7.2 setup of Rocket speakers in a room that is roughly octagon-shaped. The room is about 16 X 16 with a 20-foot high cathedral ceiling. I have several acoustic panels placed around the room, and the floor is carpeted. I use the system about 70-30 HT vs. music. I rarely turn it up past around -10 on the volume scale.
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post #154 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

Answers please

1) can I listen to Pandora/inertnet radio while using my PS3 [web surfing] with the 3310, can the 3310 also manage this. i have the 3808 and this is not possble.

2) I'l be using DT speakers 7002 [mains] in a 5.0 config at first without using the subs [built in to each speaker], will the Audyssey XT be more helpful after i start using the sub function of the mains or will the 3310 Audyssey be similar. I'll also ask the DT thread owners but I want to to hear from AVR owner also.

This is all to help me pick either 3310 or 3311, if these points are the same then the few smaller upgrades are not worth the extra cash right now.

1. The Video Select feature hasn't changed from the 3808, rather it doesn't work with HDMI sources, so, just as with your 3808, if you connect the PS3 to the AVR with a component cable, you should be able to select the internet radio as the input source and then set the Video Select setting to the PS3 component input jack.

2. Until you add an external sub, you're going to want to connect a couple RCA cables (3310 via "Y" splitter) to the internal subs in the 7002's so the sub will be set to YES and you can then make adjustments as needed. The difference between XT and the standard version of MultEQ involves more filtering for the satellite speakers. The sub filters in both versions are exactly the same.

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post #155 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubam View Post

This is our first home theater system; so much of what I read on this thread went over my head. But I was wondering if anyone has had the same problem we had.

We just got our 3311 installed and we did notice some problems. Our system includes a Samsung 46 inch 8000 3D LED TV (46C8000) and a Samsung 3D Blue Ray player (our old/ancient set up was in dire need of replacement). At first it seemed as though the 3311 would not work with the Blue Ray. The picture would flicker and then go out so we updated the firmware which seemed to solve the problem temporarily. But it went back to flickering. Next we updated the firmware on the Blue Ray which again seemed to fix the problem but it went back to the flickering. All the firmware is up to date on both the 3311 and Blue Ray player. We also had problems streaming Netflix. It seems to be working now but only after unplugging and replugging in the HDMI cable; not sure if the problem is fixed. Anyone else experience this problem? Sorry if I am not using the right terms?



Sounds like you're having some sort of hand shake issues, I don't know too much a bout the new specs on hdmi 1.4 but I would make sure you have the right hdmi compliance cables for your new set up. Monoprice have inexpensive great made hdmi cables that you can try and see if that's the issue without spending more than you want. Also they have great info on their site all about 1.4 which I haven't read yet but will soon

Hope someone will give you more info than what I did, or any other brewing issues.


Good luck

Djoel


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post #156 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott967 View Post

So it seems the AVR 3311ci would meet this requirement, unless the HDMI-DVI is a problem?

scott s.
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The use of an HDMI-DVI cable between an HDMI repeater (ie. AVR) and a DVI TV "may" cause problems with any AVR, regardless of the brand. Your best bet is to purchase the AVR from a source that will allow you to return it if necessary.

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post #157 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubam View Post

It seems to be working now but only after unplugging and replugging in the HDMI cable; not sure if the problem is fixed. Anyone else experience this problem? Sorry if I am not using the right terms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Sounds like you're having some sort of hand shake issues, I don't know too much a bout the new specs on hdmi 1.4 but I would make sure you have the right hdmi compliance cables for your new set up.

Most HDMI cables sold in the past couple of years are Hi Speed cables (often labeled as HDMI 1.3) that will also work with the new HDMI 1.4 AVRs. Make sure that you try all the HDMI inputs on the 3311 to see if you get the same result. On the 2010 models, the HDMI1 and HDMI2 jacks have somewhat different specs then the remainder of the HDMI jacks. It's likely the same with the 3311 as well.

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post #158 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:34 AM
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I'm debating whether to get 3310ci or 3311ci. Is there any big difference between them besides 3D/HDMI1.4a? Sound quality?

The price I saw, the best for 3310ci is $650 from Amazon golden box. The price for 3311ci will have $250 more than this price. I need justify it's worthy or not.

Thanks for your input.

Lou
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post #159 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:49 AM
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As pointed out earlier, if you plan on buying the DSX upgrade package ($100) that difference becomes only $150. Audyssey claims the use of the DSX "wide" speakers has a much bigger impact then adding 2 rear surround speakers as it's much easier to listen in front of us then behind us. The 3311 also now has the more advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT previously only offered in the upper level Denon AVRs. The 3311 is also likely to have a working network card. The 3311 also offers a 3 year warranty vice only 2 with the 3310. Worth $150 for all that? IMHO ... yes.

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post #160 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I also see that the 3311 doesn't decode HDCD either. I have only a few HDCDs, but I really enjoy their sound. What would be the effect of playing them through the 3311, which doesn't decode that format?

I wonder why Denon chose not to include decoding for these formats. I know there is a debate about whether it matters which unit does the decoding, but it seems strange that my older receiver decodes those formats, while the 3311 doesn't.

I'm very interested in the 3311, but I'm also wondering how much of a step up it would be from my Yamaha RX-V1800. I know the Audyssey is better, and the 3311 has some features I like. I'm not sure how much I would use the networking features, but maybe I eventually would.

In order to get the full effect of your HDCDs, you'd have to connect the Oppo 980 to the 3311 via analog RCA cables, otherwise if connected with a digital cable, the Oppo will simply play the regular CD track.

Denon likely chose not to include the SACD and HDCD decoders simply because neither format never really took hold. Certainly not to the point where it would be worth putting decoders in the lower level AVRs. Folks who prefer these higher audio quality formats typically have more expensive setups where you do indeed find decoders installed.

Regarding the networking feature, if you listen to music, you would likely quickly enjoy the benefit of listening to "internet radio" stations. Some programs allow you to select your own preference in music and the program then searches for only those types of songs to play. Also, another benefit of the network connection is that firmware updates (of which there will likely be many) and feature upgrades can easily be done via the network in your own home, rather than having to bring the AVR in to a repair facility, as must be done with the non-CI models.

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post #161 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmatrix View Post

I'm debating whether to get 3310ci or 3311ci. Is there any big difference between them besides 3D/HDMI1.4a? Sound quality?

differences between 3310 and 3311 are all listed in post #2 in this thread. Unless you need a lot of legacy inputs, the 3311 is a much better featured model overall. When you throw in what JD brought up with the new 3-year warranty on CI models, I would also go for the 3311 if I was in that price/feature range.

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post #162 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As pointed out earlier, if you plan on buying the DSX upgrade package ($100) that difference becomes only $150. Audyssey claims the use of the DSX "wide" speakers has a much bigger impact then adding 2 rear surround speakers as it's much easier to listen in front of us then behind us. The 3311 also now has the more advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT previously only offered in the upper level Denon AVRs. The 3311 is also likely to have a working network card. The 3311 also offers a 3 year warranty vice only 2 with the 3310. Worth $150 for all that? IMHO ... yes.

Cool... What's DSX? Does DSX emulate more speakers? Like I have 7.1 system, with DSX, it will sounds like 9.1 or 11.1?

3 years warranty is great!

Lou
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post #163 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 09:43 AM
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Audyssey DSX as explained on the Audyssey website here, on the 3311 will allow you to replace the rear surround speakers with either Front Height or Front Wide speakers to complete a 7.1 setup.

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post #164 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 09:45 AM
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We have an AudioQuest Cinnamon In-Wall HDMI Cable running from the 3311 (BD input slot) to the 3D Blue Ray player. The installer tested all the cables and even tried a brand new cable because he thought the cable may have been damaged; no problem with the cables. We plan on calling Denon on Monday and let them know about the problem

Firmware upgrades
-Harmony One remote
-Denon AVR 3311CI
-Samsung BD-C6900, Blue Ray 3D
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post #165 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Audyssey DSX as explained on the Audyssey website here, on the 3311 will allow you to replace the rear surround speakers with either Front Height or Front Wide speakers to complete a 7.1 setup.

It seems my 7.1 system can be upgraded to 11.1 in the future with 3311ci DSX. I can't use these height and wide speakers as another Zones, right?
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post #166 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:02 AM
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no, the 3311 can only run 7 channels at a time. If you want to use all 11 channels, the only receiver in the world that can do that is the 4810.

as JD already said, "the 3311 will allow you to replace the rear surround speakers with either Front Height or Front Wide speakers to complete a 7.1 setup."

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post #167 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no, the 3311 can only run 7 channels at a time. If you want to use all 11 channels, the only receiver in the world that can do that is the 4810.

as JD already said, the 3311 allows you to add TWO extra speakers to 5.1 to complete your 7.1 setup, but those 2 can be either surround back, front wide, or front height.

Ok. I think I was confused by the back of 3311ci. Saw there are wide and height input too. I thought they can work at the same with 7.1 system.

If my 7.1 system already setup as surround back in the ceiling. It seems DSX will not benefit me...
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post #168 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:16 AM
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not unless you get a 9-channel model (e.g. the upcoming 4311 or Onkyo's higher end line from 1007 on up)

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post #169 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubam View Post

We have an AudioQuest Cinnamon In-Wall HDMI Cable running from the 3311 (BD input slot) to the 3D Blue Ray player. The installer tested all the cables and even tried a brand new cable because he thought the cable may have been damaged; no problem with the cables. We plan on calling Denon on Monday and let them know about the problem

Before calling, you really need to try connecting the HDMI cable to each of the other HDMI inputs on the 3311 as that may solve your problem.

Quote:
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If my 7.1 system already setup as surround back in the ceiling. It seems DSX will not benefit me...

Not unless you choose not to connect them of course. The DSX wide may provide a much better listening improvement over your rear in-ceiling speakers.

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post #170 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by [KYA]Mega View Post

A great place to start is BatPig's Denon/Audyssey FAQ: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

I don't have my 3311 yet, and this will be my first Denon/Audyssey, but I think I have a pretty good grasp of things thanks to that FAQ and some other experience I have, so here is my attempt at answering your questions:

If you use the subwoofer output of the Denon, you should not need to use the crossover or low pass control in your sub. If you can turn that stuff off completely, that would be "direct mode" (your best option) and if you cannot turn it off, just set the crossover to the highest frequency it has which allows it the widest range of sound.

Then let Audyssey do it's magic. If Audyssey sets any crossovers to something higher than 80Hz, leave it, but if it sets any lower than 80Hz, raise it up to 80Hz and set your all your speakers to "small". Done. Enjoy your calibrated system.

If anything in the sound bugs you on any of your sources, consult the FAQ for common issues and their solutions.


In my subwoofer manual it says for sources with an LFE output or that use an internal crossover, the lowpass filter should be defeated by setting control to BYPASS. So my subwoofer has a direct mode I assume and I should set it to bypass?

Do I have to run Audyssey setup again or is there a way of just setting just the sub again as I have it working nicely now. When I go into Manual Setup - Speaker Setup - Crossover Frequency on Crossover Advanced it only has my speakers, Front: 120 Hz, Center: 100Hz, and Surround 120Hz. It does not have my sub there. Why is that, I definately ran the auto setup and it detected my sub and my sub is working fine but perhaps the receiver is not controlling it?

A question for you Batpig. According to your manual you stated that you can use bitstream when using PS3 slim. I do have a PS3 slim and a Denon representative originally told me to use bitstream because it lets the receiver do the processing as opposed to the PS3. When I set it to bitstream a warning message pops up saying some Blu Ray sources may not be available using bitstream. Do you think there is any advantage of using bitstream or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter perhaps the Linear PCM is more compatible.
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post #171 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:36 AM
 
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Where is this 3 year warranty on the ci/3311??
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post #172 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 10:39 AM
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Where is this 3 year warranty on the ci/3311??

Sorry what do you mean by where? It came with the instructions and other flyers in the box. It is a 3 year warranty from Denon and if there are any problems you can take it to any authorized Denon repair facility.
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post #173 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 11:27 AM
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Where is this 3 year warranty on the ci/3311??

On the Denon website.
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post #174 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 11:35 AM
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Not unless you choose not to connect them of course. The DSX wide may provide a much better listening improvement over your rear in-ceiling speakers.

I haven't setup my inceiling speakers yet. Can I use 2 in-ceiling speakers as two front wide? I will use speakercraft AIM7 Four for these two front wide if possible.

If wide is much better than surround back, I definitely will try that setup with 3311ci.
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post #175 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Electronics Expo has a sale going on now using code SUMMER35 which will get you 24% off MSRP on the 3311!

Are they an authorized dealer? Their product page says they are but I thought the CI models weren't supposed to be sold online.
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post #176 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dpstrand View Post

Are they an authorized dealer? Their product page says they are but I thought the CI models weren't supposed to be sold online.

yes, they are.
http://usa.denon.com/OnlineETailers.asp
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post #177 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dools767 View Post

In my subwoofer manual it says for sources with an LFE output or that use an internal crossover, the lowpass filter should be defeated by setting control to BYPASS. So my subwoofer has a direct mode I assume and I should set it to bypass?

Hi dools767, the bass management is handled by the AVR so set the LowPass knob to "BYPASS", also set Phase to "0", set Sub Volume about half and then run Auto Setup.

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Do I have to run Audyssey setup again or is there a way of just setting just the sub again as I have it working nicely now. When I go into Manual Setup - Speaker Setup - Crossover Frequency on Crossover Advanced it only has my speakers, Front: 120 Hz, Center: 100Hz, and Surround 120Hz. It does not have my sub there. Why is that, I definately ran the auto setup and it detected my sub and my sub is working fine but perhaps the receiver is not controlling it?

Yes, anytime a setting is made on the Sub or even moving speakers or furnitures around Audyssey Setup should be rerun.
The Subwoofer Mode setting and LPF for LFE setting is found by clicking on "Speaker Config Check" and then "Bass Setting".

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A question for you Batpig. According to your manual you stated that you can use bitstream when using PS3 slim. I do have a PS3 slim and a Denon representative originally told me to use bitstream because it lets the receiver do the processing as opposed to the PS3. When I set it to bitstream a warning message pops up saying some Blu Ray sources may not be available using bitstream. Do you think there is any advantage of using bitstream or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter perhaps the Linear PCM is more compatible.

I have the PS3 Slim and have try both Bitstream and LPCM and I don't hear a difference (but others may disagree). I leave it on Bitstream because of the blue light .
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post #178 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In order to get the full effect of your HDCDs, you'd have to connect the Oppo 980 to the 3311 via analog RCA cables, otherwise if connected with a digital cable, the Oppo will simply play the regular CD track.

Why wouldn't it be the same as SACD? In other words, why couldn't I let the Oppo DV-980H decode the HDCD and send the LPCM signal via HDMI?
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post #179 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Mike - have you read through the Audyssey section of my FAQ linked above? Your understanding is off on a few things....



this is FALSE. Audyssey simply measures your speakers and reports the results back to the receiver, which actually DOES make an arbitrary decision on crossovers, setting them at the lowest point above the measured roll-off. Audyssey is NOT in control of the crossovers in the consumer implementation; thus, do not assume you are getting an "optimized" crossover set for smoothest response. Audyssey specifically recommends this procedure of raising crossovers that are set too low by the receiver, since the subwoofer channel filters are much higher resolution, and many receivers will set the crossovers very low (or worse, set the speakers to "large").



this is also FALSE. The filters are INDEPENDENT of the crossovers. Audyssey filters all speakers across their entire operating range, regardless of where the crossover point is set. Again, have you read that section of my FAQ? The only risk of losing out on the filters would be if you LOWER them significantly.

Thanks for the response. My mistake was in how I was looking at the bass management process. I was thinking the audyssey filters were applied before the crossovers and summed bass. It sounds like I was wrong and the filters are applied afterwards. If that is the case, raising the crossovers won't cause problems with the audyssey filters.

I never realized how complicated bass management really is until I started reading about the issues some people have with the implementation in the Emotiva UMC-1. With all the different eqs, crossovers, time delays, bass redirection, etc. on 6 to 10 channels, it would be almost impossible for the average person to figure it out without forums like this one and all the helpful people like Batpig to straighten out laymen like me.

-Mike
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post #180 of 10496 Old 06-27-2010, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

Why wouldn't it be the same as SACD? In other words, why couldn't I let the Oppo DV-980H decode the HDCD and send the LPCM signal via HDMI?

If the 980 can do that .. then sure, that's another solution.

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