"Official" Yamaha RX-V667/RX-V767 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster View Post

I do agree with Travisimo that movie soundtracks are inconsistent. But i'd also say look at the YPAO settings. for some reason it set my left and right @ +4dB, my center @ -0.5dB (and dialogue is often too low, so thats a real problem) and my sub @ -10dB (wtf?). Maybe because my left & right were set as large, do you think that'd be a reason the 667 pumped them up more than the other speakers?

This happens because you have the sub's level too high when you run YPAO. To get the best balance of settings, lower the sub's level and re-run YPAO until you get a sub channel result at or near to 0db. YPAO tries to balance ALL channels and is effected if the sub is too high or too low.
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post #722 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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I've read all kinds of posts about bi-amping generally, but I cannot find any post in this "official" thread regarding anyone actually using it, and especially because our 6063 (or 667) supports it via hardware configuration. To quote the manual ...
Quote:
Using front speakers that support bi-amp connections produces a high quality sound.

It would imply that special speakers (with 2 connector pairs) are required, which would limit the speaker systems I'd otherwise consider. This naturally begs the question ... should I spend any time at all searching for bi-amp'able front speakers, or should I simply purchase the best active woofer and satellites I can find (... within my budget, of course!)?

Note: I do have a post in the "speakers" forum that asks about the general availability of bi-amp'able speakers ...
Edit: I won't bother with the speakers forum, until someone here gives me a good impression that it's worthwhile ... I was simply thinking about optimising the power available, but it really does limit my choice in speaker ...
TIA & Cheerios from the Avalon

cheerios ... michael shaffer
Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
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post #723 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarewolf View Post

I've read all kinds of posts about bi-amping generally, but I cannot find any post in this "official" thread regarding anyone actually using it, and especially because our 6063 (or 667) supports it via hardware configuration. To quote the manual ...

It would imply that special speakers (with 2 connector pairs) are required, which would limit the speaker systems I'd otherwise consider. This naturally begs the question ... should I spend any time at all searching for bi-amp'able front speakers, or should I simply purchase the best active woofer and satellites I can find (... within my budget, of course!)?

Note: I do have a post in the "speakers" forum that asks about the general availability of bi-amp'able speakers ...

TIA & Cheerios from the Avalon

The short answer is that all this does (from the 667) is boost the available power to the speakers. Similar results can be had by adding an amp.

Many speakers that have extra connects may claim to be "bi-ampable" but in fact do not have the correct crossover inside to support true bi-amping. In that case it again does nothing but boost power.

True bi-amping involves separate amps and active crossovers feeding a speaker with completely separate wiring for the different "channels" of drivers. There are speakers out there than even have wiring capable of tri-amping and quad-amping.

Use of a good sub with the speakers set as "small" is essentially another path to the same end. Again, with the 667 or any AVR all you're really doing is boosting the power available to the speaker. It's arguable that you'll get better result for "audio quality" simply by adding a good quality amp with more output. Not only will you get more power but also a "real" audio amp with better performance.

The biggest variable here is the speaker in use. Don't assume that just because it has 2 inputs that it's really wired for true bi-amping. And don't assume that it's really a good enough speaker to offer any real improvements from using that option.
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post #724 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The short answer is that all this does (from the 667) is boost the available power to the speakers. ...

The biggest variable here is the speaker in use. Don't assume that just because it has 2 inputs that it's really wired for true bi-amping. And don't assume that it's really a good enough speaker to offer any real improvements from using that option.

This is what I thought ... ie, there are a lot of front speakers available that cannot be bi-amp'd, and at least some of them are likely to sound better than any of the few appropriately designed to be bi-amp'd.

Still, I'd like to hear from anyone who's clearly improved their fronts via Yammy's capability to bi-amp, specifically which speakers were used(?)

cheerios ... michael shaffer
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post #725 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 11:07 AM
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Hi all. I'm an AV newbie. Apologies in advance if I sound like an idiot.

I've just replaced an old receiver with the RX-V667. Works well in all things video but I'm having a problem getting the subwoofer to be used for sources connected via HDMI.

I have a Comcast HD cable box (Motorola DCT3412) and a Roku XD player. Both are connected to my receiver via HDMI cables. I have Polk RM-75 speakers and Polk PSW10 subwoofer.

Both sources are successfully passing video and some audio frequencies to the speakers. However, neither is successfully passing the bass frequencies to the subwoofer. In order for any sound to come from the subwoofer, I have to also connect the cable box and Roku player to the receiver via red/white audio cables. When I do this, sound is passed to both the speakers and the subwoofer successfully from each source. I want to fix this so the audio works completely over the HDMI connection.

any ideas on what the issue is?
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post #726 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacyn View Post

I've just replaced an old receiver with the RX-V667. Works well in all things video but I'm having a problem getting the subwoofer to be used for sources connected via HDMI ... any ideas on what the issue is?

If the sub wasn't working for any source I would say you have your front speakers set as LARGE, instead of SMALL. But if it works over analog that doesn't make sense.
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post #727 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarewolf View Post

This is what I thought ... ie, there are a lot of front speakers available that cannot be bi-amp'd, and at least some of them are likely to sound better than any of the few appropriately designed to be bi-amp'd.

Still, I'd like to hear from anyone who's clearly improved their fronts via Yammy's capability to bi-amp, specifically which speakers were used(?)

I guess what I was beating around the bush at is that you'll be far more likely to achieve "improved sound" with most speakers simply by adding a bigger amp. But some people do report improvements using the bi-amp feature which are consistent with having increased power output. Bookshelf and smaller floor speakers will not see much gain.
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post #728 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacyn View Post

Hi all. I'm an AV newbie. Apologies in advance if I sound like an idiot.

I've just replaced an old receiver with the RX-V667. Works well in all things video but I'm having a problem getting the subwoofer to be used for sources connected via HDMI.


any ideas on what the issue is?

Not all channels and sources are 5.1. Unless you have front speakers set to "small", the sub isn't doing anything without a LFE channel output from the AVR. 2-ch sources have no LFE channel.
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post #729 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 03:33 PM
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Hi All,

Just got this receiver and loving it. How do I hook up outside speakers for my deck? I only want them to play sometimes (when I'm outside). I have all of my components (cable box, DVD/CD player and Apple TV) hooked up via HDMI. Do I just hook up the outside speakers to the "extra SP" outputs? I tried that but didn't get sound. Perhaps I need to do something through the menu?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #730 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If the sub wasn't working for any source I would say you have your front speakers set as LARGE, instead of SMALL. But if it works over analog that doesn't make sense.

Right, that's what I thought too. I checked and they're set to SMALL. Do you think this might be an issue with the receiver? I thought maybe a cabling issue, but it seems odd that it would occur with multiple cables at the same time...quite a coincidence.

any other ideas?
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post #731 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbriegs View Post

Hi All,

Just got this receiver and loving it. How do I hook up outside speakers for my deck? I only want them to play sometimes (when I'm outside). I have all of my components (cable box, DVD/CD player and Apple TV) hooked up via HDMI. Do I just hook up the outside speakers to the "extra SP" outputs? I tried that but didn't get sound. Perhaps I need to do something through the menu?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I did this by following the instructions for setting up Zone 2 in the manual (page 16). Then you need to make sure you go to the Setup menu, select speakers, select manual, select power amp assign and select 7 channels +1 zone.

You then control the source and volume for your outdoor speakers via the Zone 2 functions.
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post #732 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 04:38 PM
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When using the YPAO mic of my RX-V667 to do an auto set up, the receiver reports that all speakers are large - all 7 in my system. This makes sense, but I thought that the fronts should always be set to "small" to let the sub provide the low frequency instead of the mains driving the bass. Is this correct? I'm connecting my sub via the RCA coax out "sub"

If the fronts should always be set to small - regardless of size - is there then a way to force the "small" setting when using the YPAO mic to configure the set up?

Thanks!

Ian
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post #733 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 05:44 PM
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You have to change them to small after running YPAO, not before, and you might as well make them all small (not just the fronts). Also make sure the crossover frequency is set to a reasonable value.
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post #734 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

This happens because you have the sub's level too high when you run YPAO. To get the best balance of settings, lower the sub's level and re-run YPAO until you get a sub channel result at or near to 0db. YPAO tries to balance ALL channels and is effected if the sub is too high or too low.

the sub's volume level was at less then half like the manual suggests. the fronts are already set to large. if i lower the sub much more i might as well not use one and just let the fronts do the bass.
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post #735 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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He is not saying that the sub should have a lower level. He is just suggesting you set the sub's own level control such that the receiver's channel level is not a lot different from 0.

I personally think attenuation (a negative) channel level is ok. But if it's two positive, I always think you could run into the situation where the pre amp's output could start clipping.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #736 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

You have to change them to small after running YPAO, not before, and you might as well make them all small (not just the fronts). Also make sure the crossover frequency is set to a reasonable value.

Thanks kriksemaj99.

I will change over all my speakers to small. But, since YPAO set up the bass management with values for the size of my speakers (large) at the time of calibration . . . don't I need to compensate for the chance to small if I'm taking a lot of bass from my fronts and surrounds?

You mention to crossover at "reasonable value" . . . again, I thought that by turning both the volume and crossover setting to high values allowed the receiver to control this via the values YPAO chose. So, when I can to set the crossover to (?), doesn't this again upset the "fine tuning" that YPAO did? My PSB fronts are so old, I have no idea where they should cross over.

Lastly, if I change the speaker size to small, and then change the crossover to a reasonable value, doesn't this mean all that I'm getting from YPAO is the delay time, speaker distance and the volume level for the sub that YPAO picked?

If changing the speakers to small is the best way to go, why doesn't YPAO recognize the benefit of calibrating with "small speakers" chosen right from the start?

I had thought that simply using the YPAO mic was the way to go . . . just run the test, and if you don't get errors your good to go without needing to change speaker size or crossover.

Thanks again . . .

Ian
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post #737 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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based on my own experience with YAPO, feel free to experiment...

I run YPAO
I change all speakers to small
Optionally - re-run YPAO IF you can tell it NOT to check speaker size

Done...

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #738 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 09:26 PM
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I know the 667 is able to upscale an SD signal to 1080P. Question is how good a job does it do? Is it usable or not? My current display has a mediocre scaler in it, so I was just trying to see if the receiver would help or not. How good is the analog to HDMI conversion even if you keep the same resolution? My current receiver hinders the signal. I get a clearer picture going straight to the TV with the video cables.
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post #739 of 3955 Old 01-09-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wcmlutz View Post

I know the 667 is able to upscale an SD signal to 1080P. Question is how good a job does it do? Is it usable or not? My current display has a mediocre scaler in it, so I was just trying to see if the receiver would help or not. How good is the analog to HDMI conversion even if you keep the same resolution? My current receiver hinders the signal. I get a clearer picture going straight to the TV with the video cables.

I find that since my TV displays everything in 1080p, I let the AVR do the switching and the sound. I set video to pass through for everything. I have 1080i content, 1080p BR and 1080p upconverted inputs. I like it better this way. But if you think the conversion done isn't so great, you're not alone. I have no analog inputs for video, so this may not be the best advice either.
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post #740 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 05:20 AM
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Today I was faced with the decision to get either a RX-V667, or a RX-V2700, both the same price here in Taiwan ($600.. yeah, ouch). I went with the former just because I use self-powered monitors and don't need a great amp, and figured it would be best to go with the newest tech for compatibility reasons. Do you guys think I made the right call? Oh.. the V2700 was GOLD colored, that was another big negative hahaha..

Another quick question - is there a way to disable the amp on this thing since I'm only using the pre-outs? I'd do it for power savings/heat related reasons.
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post #741 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teeger View Post
I will change over all my speakers to small. But, since YPAO set up the bass management with values for the size of my speakers (large) at the time of calibration . . . don't I need to compensate for the chance to small if I'm taking a lot of bass from my fronts and surrounds?
Yamaha don't say exactly what YPAO is doing, but since they don't give you the chance to make changes before running YPAO your only choice is to change it afterwards. The EQ chosen by YPAO will still be in effect. But I would compare all the different EQ modes, and EQ off, to see which you like best.

Most auto-setup systems still like to set speakers to LARGE when they shouldn't be. Lots of articles will tell you always to use SMALL, here's one. YPAO is certainly not infallible. You may have to experiment a bit to see which crossover value you prefer, and whether you want to turn the sub level up or down compared to the YPAO value.
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post #742 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seacyn View Post
Hi all. I'm an AV newbie. Apologies in advance if I sound like an idiot.

I've just replaced an old receiver with the RX-V667. Works well in all things video but I'm having a problem getting the subwoofer to be used for sources connected via HDMI.

I have a Comcast HD cable box (Motorola DCT3412) and a Roku XD player. Both are connected to my receiver via HDMI cables. I have Polk RM-75 speakers and Polk PSW10 subwoofer.

Both sources are successfully passing video and some audio frequencies to the speakers. However, neither is successfully passing the bass frequencies to the subwoofer. In order for any sound to come from the subwoofer, I have to also connect the cable box and Roku player to the receiver via red/white audio cables. When I do this, sound is passed to both the speakers and the subwoofer successfully from each source. I want to fix this so the audio works completely over the HDMI connection.

any ideas on what the issue is?
YPAO isn't perfect. From the pictures, you have small speakers. They may be great small speakers, but the AVR would prefer sending bass to the sub if you have one. As for analog being different: was the front panel display different too? Try checking the OnScreen->Information->Audio and see if there is a /1 at the end indicating an LFE signal is present. Every input is different (why I love this unit). Does the sub have a activity indicator? Some do, showing that it has received a signal. The AVR doesn't need 5.1 input to use the sub, it can simulate that. But via HDMI it will, depending on your settings, kill the sub if the HDMI say there is nothing to send to it. It's a smart little AVR. Those white scene buttons are a big help too.

I also have an HD cable box feeding the AVR. It says everything is 5.1 1080i. Sure it is. Find a benchmark content source and let that be your guide to a better listening experience. Please don't feel your questions are idiotic. You got here, didn't you? That makes you smarter than average.
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post #743 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I find that since my TV displays everything in 1080p, I let the AVR do the switching and the sound. I set video to pass through for everything. I have 1080i content, 1080p BR and 1080p upconverted inputs. I like it better this way. But if you think the conversion done isn't so great, you're not alone. I have no analog inputs for video, so this may not be the best advice either.

Hi, can you or someone please speak a little more about upconverting?

1) Is upconverting enabled by default?
2) Is this passthrough referring to the same thing as upconverting? Is passthrough on/enabled meaning it's just "passing through" and isn't being touched or upconverted?
3) where in the menu on the 667 can i find video passthrough and what option do I set it to if I want the 667 to upconvert the lower quality signals like composite, etc..

Please add anything else you can think of... I'm so confused about upconverting and can't find any solid reference to it in my manual.

Thanks!
mmoreimi
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post #744 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yamaha don't say exactly what YPAO is doing, but since they don't give you the chance to make changes before running YPAO your only choice is to change it afterwards. The EQ chosen by YPAO will still be in effect. But I would compare all the different EQ modes, and EQ off, to see which you like best.

Most auto-setup systems still like to set speakers to LARGE when they shouldn't be. Lots of articles will tell you always to use SMALL, here's one. YPAO is certainly not infallible. You may have to experiment a bit to see which crossover value you prefer, and whether you want to turn the sub level up or down compared to the YPAO value.

Thanks kriktsemaj99 & MichaelJHuman . . .

I will be setting all of my speakers to "small" and then play around with the crossover, as this seems to be the best approach.

I'll go over the manual to see how the 667 allows for manual adjustments of the EQ. I didn't think there was much by way of EQ user adjustments.

I have to admit that the way (with "large" speakers, as YPAO chose) the system sounds better than before using YPAO. I just know that driving the mains at full frequency isn't very efficient - and I'll likely blow my very old PSB's if I drive them too heavily with too much bass. I'm glad to hear that the preferred method is simply changing speaker size to small - regardless of how BIG the speaks may in fact be.

Thanks for all your input.

Ian
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post #745 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

He is not saying that the sub should have a lower level. He is just suggesting you set the sub's own level control such that the receiver's channel level is not a lot different from 0.

I personally think attenuation (a negative) channel level is ok. But if it's two positive, I always think you could run into the situation where the pre amp's output could start clipping.

i'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but what i did was re-do the YPAO set up with the sub at lower volumes until YPAO set the fronts to 0dB. the problem now is the sub is @ -7dB, and for some reason the center is @ -5.5dB.

so i think i'll change the fronts to "small" and then bump up the subs volume dial to my taste, and ditto for the center (probably up to 0dB or close to it...as i currently find dialogue much too low). should that be ok?

I guess my question becomes if i'm altering the YPAO setup that drastically, was there any real point to running it in the first place?
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post #746 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoreimi View Post

Hi, can you or someone please speak a little more about upconverting?

1) Is upconverting enabled by default?
2) Is this passthrough referring to the same thing as upconverting? Is passthrough on/enabled meaning it's just "passing through" and isn't being touched or upconverted?
3) where in the menu on the 667 can i find video passthrough and what option do I set it to if I want the 667 to upconvert the lower quality signals like composite, etc..

Please add anything else you can think of... I'm so confused about upconverting and can't find any solid reference to it in my manual.

Thanks!
mmoreimi

A little more. First, I have an RX-V867. That being said, the rest should be the same anyhow on an RX-V667. Big thing you said: quality. Quality does not equate to resolution. A digital 480i signal is not lower quality, it just doesn't have the higher resolution of HD. As for upconverting you are entering the battle of the chips that change resolution. Some are better than others. You can, with the V867, select the output resolution from "auto" to 480i to 1080p to Through. Get to that choice by: On Screen->Setup->Video->Processing (on)->enter->Resolution->enter. Pick something that is not grayed out. I choose Through. I don't know what auto does. and feeding the AVR with a 1080i signal my only choices are auto and through. I have not had years of experience with this unit and I may be way off base. I hope you will get better advice from another if that is so. But nothing stops you from playing with it and let your eyes be your guide. I find it interesting that the default video output is 480p. Or maybe I set it that way.
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post #747 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrmbadger1 View Post

Ok, so I've had this receiver for about 4 weeks (I'm an audio newby so forgive this if its basic). I finally got a 7.1 speaker setup and I put in Toy Story 3 the other day (a 7.1 source). My blueray player is set to pass the audio directly to the receiver without decoding it. I have my sound program on "Movie:Standard" and when I go into the audio info, it says 3/2/.1 - i.e. 5.1 channel

When I change the program to "Surround Decode," it says 3/4/.1 - 7.1

Why would the Standard program not output 7.1? Does it have something to do with the Standard Program using Cinema DSP? Does Cinema DSP not work with 7.1?

I kinda like the Cinema DSP effects, so that is why I ask, also I don't wanna have to keep changing the sound program based on whether I think the input is 5.1 or 7.1

Thanks
Justin


Ok, so not to quote myself, but I think I found the answer in case anyone cares:

From Yamaha's website:
"Conventional multichannel audio reproduction systems base their sound on Dolby Digital and DTS decoding, using matrix and steering technologies to create surround sound effects. Yamaha CINEMA DSP is much more advanced, actually creating richly realized independent sound fields that envelop you in an unmatched surround sound experience. With dialogue, music and effects from ideally located in these separate sound fields, you will hear sound with accurate placement, smooth movement, exceptional clarity and richness, and startlingly realistic presence. It will seem as if the walls of your room have disappeared and you are in the middle of your own immense theater! The decoding circuitry performs Dolby Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS Digital Surround, DTS-ES (DTS-ES Matrix 6.1 and DTS-ES Discrete 6.1), DTS Neo:6 and DTS 96/24 decoding with extreme accuracy, as well as all digital sound field processing."

Since Toy Story is DTS HD it apparently is not supported by Cinema DSP. It appears that none of the supported codecs of Cinema DSP are 7.1 capable. Thus it appears that Cinema DSP is not supported for 7.1 sources. According to Wikipedia, only DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD support 7.1, and neither is listed as being supported by cinema dsp.

However, I am an audio newby (this is my first receiver) so I may be wrong.
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post #748 of 3955 Old 01-10-2011, 08:57 PM
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I'm having a little bit of trouble that someone may be able to help me with. I recently upgraded from the 663 to the 667. I use this receiver in my basement, and have 2 zones setup in my basement. One zone is on one side of the basement which is a 5.1 setup around the tv. The second zone is on the other side of the basement by the bar. Zone 1 is connected to the receiver via hdmi, and zone 2 via standard av cables. There is a distance of about 45ft between the two zones.

Here is my problem... I have my Playstation 3 connected to the receiver and I use my ps3 as a music media device during get togethers. When I use the receiver for such a purpose, I have both zones on at the same time running the same source (the ps3). When I had this setup running while using the v663 I received no lag to the second zone, and the sound coming from both zones was in sync. This is now no longer the case while using the v667. There is now a slight lag on the second zone, which is very noticeable, which now causes a echo effect when both zones are running.

The only difference I can think of besides the receiver itself is that I was using banana plugs for all speakers when using the v663, but I am only using banana plugs for zone 1 with the v667, because I don't have the option to use them for zone 2 with the 667.

Any settings you guys can think of that I should check out which may help me correct this problem? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #749 of 3955 Old 01-11-2011, 03:49 AM
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I'm the happy owner of a 767 now, and have spent some time running YPAO and manually editing the PEQ and speaker settings.

Looking at this plot form the Pure Direct (dark grey) and Through-setting (yello):



This is the Natural setting (red) compared to Through


And after a manual job I ended up with this (purple line):


The manual setting sounds better in my ears, less boxy sound, male voices and snare drums are less colored. Feel fre to comment

The 767 was baught to replace Pioneer VSX-915, and so far the upgrade is huge, both in music and movie-mode.

Link to my HT-presentation in a norwegian forum:http://avforum.no/minhjemmekino/show.php/tols1
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post #750 of 3955 Old 01-11-2011, 05:36 AM
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I don't wish to start a new micro-thread, but what's the definition of "small" and "large" as related to speakers? Is there some ANSI standard? A lot of time is being spent on this and I want to get my facts straight.

My newer Sony 3-way speakers are sitting on top of my older Pioneer 3-way speakers. Does that make me a redneck?

Found out from the Yamaha documentation that if you have a speaker with a woofer of 6 1/4 inch (16cm) or larger you have a "large" speaker. If you have a woofer of 6 1/4 inch (16cm) or smaller you have a "small" speaker". If you have a speaker that is exactly 6 1/4 inch (16 cm) it probably needs therapy.
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