"Official" Yamaha RX-V667/RX-V767 Thread - Page 59 - AVS Forum
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post #1741 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

...I think the name "extra bass" is misleading and makes a lot of folks think back to the old "loudness" button. "extra bass" does not boost the bass(as the name implies),it just distributes the bass differently.

Extra bass does boost the bass, it gives you a peak in the frequency response centred on the crossover frequency, so it's not really a good thing.

Remember that there is not a sudden drop in a speaker's output at the crossover, it drops off gradually (same for the sub above the crossover). When you turn on Extra Bass it has no effect on high frequencies above where the sub plays, and it has no effect on the lowest frequencies where the main speakers have no output. But there is a range near the crossover where both are producing some output and in this range the combined output is increased, which ruins what otherwise could have been a flat frequency response.

If you want more bass it's usually better to have the frequency response gradually rising at lower frequencies, rather than have a hump around the crossover.
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post #1742 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Extra bass does boost the bass, it gives you a peak in the frequency response centred on the crossover frequency, so it's not really a good thing.

Remember that there is not a sudden drop in a speaker's output at the crossover, it drops off gradually (same for the sub above the crossover). When you turn on Extra Bass it has no effect on high frequencies above where the sub plays, and it has no effect on the lowest frequencies where the main speakers have no output. But there is a range near the crossover where both are producing some output and in this range the combined output is increased, which ruins what otherwise could have been a flat frequency response.

If you want more bass it's usually better to have the frequency response gradually rising at lower frequencies, rather than have a hump around the crossover.

As I mentioned,if you want to use a sub, you can't really turn on or off the "extra bass",it is automatic depending on your front speaker size selection. As far as the "peak"or "hump", it exists to a degree at any crossover point,even with speaker set to small w/extra bass off(you're right, crossovers are not "brick walls"). Adjusting the level and crossover freq. of the sub(to better integrate it with the front speakers) and/or using the parametric eq might take care of that problem. I know a lot of people say"if you have a sub,set 'em to small",but we've all seen those pictures of huge h/t set-ups;do they all have their very large front speakers set to small? The final test should be your ears(we all hear differently and have different preferences),so switch between large and small and what sounds best to you is the bottom line winner!
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post #1743 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

Not to speak for rdgrimes, but when he referred to "secondary audio," I think he was referring to BD player settings. After you set all the BD player parameters correctly, and play the disc, press "straight" on your AVR's remote, and then press the "info" button several times on the remote to cycle through the various information that will be displayed on the AVR's front panel. Let us know what happens!

Thank You.

Having 667 for a while but I had never made it worked with blu-ray discs. They always showed DTS on front screen. I set my Pany BD-65 audio to bit-stream, Srtaight on 667 but no luck. Reading your post talking about "second audio" on blu-ray, I changed it to "off" and it works. Though I don't have the good ears to notice the improvement from DTS to DTS-HD MSTR . May be a bit, not sure, but I am happy
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post #1744 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by AVS66 View Post

Thank You.

Though I don't have the good ears to notice the improvement from DTS to DTS-HD MSTR . May be a bit, not sure, but I am happy

Makes ya wonder what all the fuss is about, doesn't it? You are welcome (for my small role).
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post #1745 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 12:45 PM
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I re-read Chris's article and thought that a lot of his reasons for setting front speakers to small didn't apply to me. I've got plenty of headroom(400 watt monoblocks for the fronts) and no WAF,so I don't need small speakers. I decided more listening was required(Tom Petty-Wildflowers). Going in, I was still a little biased towards "large",but I'm really doing this "blind",with eyes closed so I can't see the osd. After a while, I became confident which one sounded better, and it was..........SMALL! Then I changed the xover back to 80hz from 60hz and......it sounded better! I tried raising the xover higher,but in my 280 sq. ft room it made the sub "localized"(I could hear where the bass was coming from),so I kept lowering it until I couldn't tell where the sub was in the room and that was ....80hz. So, I'm back where I started,all speakers set to small,xover at the default 80hz. I changed it back because now I think it sounds better that way. Hope It sounds better that way tomorrow. As you can see, this was all done listening to music(my ht/music mix is 50/50) and if all I listened to was h/t,that would have been my test material and maybe resulted in a higher xover(more boom). My brain hurts and I haven't even played with the YPAO yet!
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post #1746 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 04:13 PM
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Here's another one;is it possible to listen to a cd(audio 1) while watching Dish(hdmi 1)? I looked in the manual,didn't see it.
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post #1747 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Here's another one;is it possible to listen to a cd(audio 1) while watching Dish(hdmi 1)? I looked in the manual,didn't see it.

If your Dish is connected via HDMI to your AVR, see the information in the green box on page 25 of your owner's manual. To avoid this hassle, but lose switching through the AVR, connect your Dish via HDMi to your tv and use optical from Dish to your AVR.
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post #1748 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

If your Dish is connected via HDMI to your AVR, see the information in the green box on page 25 of your owner's manual. To avoid this hassle, but lose switching through the AVR, connect your Dish via HDMi to your tv and use optical from Dish to your AVR.

I was playing with the remote and found out how to do it;
while watching Dish(hdmi 1), osd>input(the one you're watching),then arrow up, then arrow down to audio in,press enter,chose what you want to listen to! When you want to hear what you're watching again,repeat and chose hdmi 1(or the input you're watching).

Easy! (I learn something every day!)
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post #1749 of 3962 Old 04-08-2011, 10:08 PM
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Thought I'd share that Big River has the Yamaha RX-V867BL for $488! The Yamaha RX-V667 is $549. Go figure!
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post #1750 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 07:04 AM
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i recently received the 867 and am using it to upconvert video primarily and reduce cables. at the moment i dont have any speakers besides my tv. i have the receiver set now to pass the audio to the tv via hdmi. this works great for my directv reception which passes just fine including audio. for my wii, it works for about 4 seconds and then the receiver switches off sort of like a circuit breaker would switch off. i can turn it back on and again it works for about 4 seconds and has the same problem. any idea what the issue is? do i have a bad receiver?
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post #1751 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhodson View Post

i recently received the 867 and am using it to upconvert video primarily and reduce cables. at the moment i dont have any speakers besides my tv. i have the receiver set now to pass the audio to the tv via hdmi. this works great for my directv reception which passes just fine including audio. for my wii, it works for about 4 seconds and then the receiver switches off sort of like a circuit breaker would switch off. i can turn it back on and again it works for about 4 seconds and has the same problem. any idea what the issue is? do i have a bad receiver?

Are you trying to output audio over HDMI from an analog (stereo) audio input?
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post #1752 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 09:14 AM
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Reading through the whole thread, I see a couple of places where folks who are very new to the game asked for recommended settings but didn't get much of a reply.

I suspect the reason for that is: some could argue that providing such recommendations would be all but useless since there are some many variables including source material, room acoustics, speakers and placement, the listeners ears, taste, preference, etc.

That's quite true, but still leaves the newbie, especially non-tech newbie, pretty bewildered.

After having done some extensive testing, I drew up some recommendations for other members of my family to use, and am happy to share in case they are useful.

Of course the caveat is: these are based on my system, setup, and preferences so you may not find them suitable. But it might be a place to start:

_____________________

Settings
Based on BITSREAMING to the AVR and a 7.1 Speaker setup using 2 back surround speakers:

1) OSD -> SETUP -> SPEAKER -> MANUAL SETUP -> POWER AMP ASSIGN = < 7ch Normal >

2) OSD -> INPUT -> HDMI 1 -> DECODER MODE =

3) OSD -> SOUND PROGRAM ->STANDARD -> DECODE TYPE = . Make this setting for all other Cinema DSP Movie modes (Spectacle, Sci-Fi, Adventure, etc.)

4) OPTION -> SURROUND DECODE =

Playback Options (select at time of playback)

Source Type
2 ch Sources: Movie
Select STRAIGHT to hear the 2.0 source in 2.1
Select SUR DECODE:
or
One of the Cinema DSP Movie modes if you like DSP (I find these tend to work well with 2ch sources)

Music
Select STRAIGHT to hear the 2.0 source in 2.1
Select SUR DECODE: if you want the music matrixed to different channels (single listening position)
Select Cinema DSP Music: <7 Ch stereo> if you want the same music from all 7 speakers (party mode(many listeners) or if you are moving around while listening))
Select Cinema DSP Music: or one of the other locations if you want to simulate listening in that environment.
Note: ** When the input source is 2ch, selecting Cinema DSP Music: <2 Ch stereo> provides the same output as STRAIGHT **

Game
Select STRAIGHT to hear the 2.0 source in 2.1
Select SUR DECODE: if you want the game soundtrack matrixed to all 7 speakers
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's an action game and you want the DSP effects.
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's a roleplaying game and you want the DSP effects.

5.1 ch Sources: Movie
Select STRAIGHT to hear the 5.1 source in 7.1
One of the Cinema DSP Movie modes if you like DSP. (I normally don’t use DSP if the movie is known for a great soundtrack (e.g. Master & Commander), but if the soundtrack is weak, DSP can add to the experience)

Music
Select STRAIGHT and change OPTION -> SURROUND DECODE = to hear the 5.1 source in 7.1
Select Cinema DSP Music: <7 Ch stereo> if you want the same music from all 7 speakers (party mode(many listeners) or if you are moving around while listening))
Select Cinema DSP Music: or one of the other locations if you want to simulate listening in that environment.
Select Cinema DSP Music: <2 Ch stereo> if you want multi-channel music downmixed to 2.1 channels and only output through the front speakers and sub.
Game
Select STRAIGHT and change OPTION -> SURROUND DECODE = to hear the 5.1 source in 7.1
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's an action game and you want the DSP effects.
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's a roleplaying game and you want the DSP effects.

7.1 ch Sources: Movie
Select STRAIGHT to hear the source in 7.1
One of the Cinema DSP Movie modes if you like DSP. (I normally don’t use DSP for 7.1 sources). If the source is dts HD MA 71, and you select a DSP mode, you lose some quality.

Music
Select STRAIGHT to hear the source in 7.1
Select Cinema DSP Music: or one of the other locations if you want to simulate listening in that environment.
Select Cinema DSP Music: <2 Ch stereo> if you want multi-channel music downmixed to 2.1 channels and only output through the front speakers and sub.
Game
Select STRAIGHT to hear the source in 7.1
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's an action game and you want the DSP effects.
Select Cinema DSP Movie: if it's a roleplaying game and you want the DSP effects.
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post #1753 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillaVista View Post

Settings
Based on BITSREAMING to the AVR and a 7.1 Speaker setup using 2 back surround speakers:

1) OSD -> SETUP -> SPEAKER -> MANUAL SETUP -> POWER AMP ASSIGN = < 7ch + 1ZONE >

Do you have 9 speakers + sub or 7 speakers + sub? If only 7, you don't need power amp assigned to 7ch + 1 zone.
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post #1754 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Are you trying to output audio over HDMI from an analog (stereo) audio input?

yes
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post #1755 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhodson View Post

i recently received the 867 and am using it to upconvert video primarily and reduce cables. at the moment i dont have any speakers besides my tv. i have the receiver set now to pass the audio to the tv via hdmi. this works great for my directv reception which passes just fine including audio. for my wii, it works for about 4 seconds and then the receiver switches off sort of like a circuit breaker would switch off. i can turn it back on and again it works for about 4 seconds and has the same problem. any idea what the issue is? do i have a bad receiver?

I have a wii connected to my 867 with AVR set to pass audio to both HDMI outs. No problems with receiver shut off. You might have a defective unit.
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post #1756 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbhpi View Post

Do you have 9 speakers + sub or 7 speakers + sub? If only 7, you don't need power amp assigned to 7ch + 1 zone.

The latter. Thanks for the correction.
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post #1757 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

I I tried raising the xover higher,but in my 280 sq. ft room it made the sub "localized"(I could hear where the bass was coming from)

Your sub will become localized at 100Hz and above maybe a little lower. Depending on the placement of your sub. (I have subs in 3 corners of my H/T room.)
Ideally to you would want to find where your mains cross the bass at and set your sub inside the receiver to cross at the same of just below where your mains do.~ (If you are going tp set your mains to Large)
With your mains set to large you have the option of turning Extra Bass OFF inside the unit, that should kill your sub if the mains are set to large and you get to much bass. (not possible )
Again, it is an "ear" thing and what YOUR ear likes as apposed to someone elses who do their settings differernt.
I use 2 passive subs and a 250watt powered sub but i like my house to feel like its shaking, some might not.
If you havnt and i wasnt clear on that from your posts, run YPAO and see where it sets things at. It did a pretty good job for me but i still found room to tweak it to my set up. Also having the OSD available will help alot with setting your speakers up no matter how you do it.

I took the red pill.
(and got screwed by Toshiba)
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post #1758 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 01:19 PM
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A quick question when i go into Speaker/manual setup/ level and choose a speaker to adjust and this includes the test tone I have a small red bar followed by a longer blue bar then a red bar the same size as the blue bar followed by another blue bar the same length as the 2 previous bars and finally a short red bar ...........i don't remember this being there when i initially set this system up is this normal
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post #1759 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe01880 View Post

Your sub will become localized at 100Hz and above maybe a little lower. Depending on the placement of your sub. (I have subs in 3 corners of my H/T room.)

My post #1745
I tried raising the xover higher,but in my 280 sq. ft room it made the sub "localized"(I could hear where the bass was coming from),so I kept lowering it until I couldn't tell where the sub was in the room and that was ....80hz. So, I'm back where I started,all speakers set to small,xover at the default 80hz. I changed it


With your mains set to large you have the option of turning Extra Bass OFF inside the unit, that should kill your sub if the mains are set to large and you get to much bass. (not possible )


My post#1740
The "extra bass" does switch on and off automatically when you change from "large" front speakers to "small" front speakers. When set to "large",you can turn the "extra bass" off. Unfortunately,this turns the subwoofer off! So,if you want to use a subwoofer, your choices are ""large"with "extra bass" or "small" without "extra bass".

Again, it is an "ear" thing and what YOUR ear likes as apposed to someone elses who do their settings differernt.

My post#1742
The final test should be your ears(we all hear differently and have different preferences),so switch between large and small and what sounds best to you is the bottom line winner!

Thanks for agreeing!
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post #1760 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommrussell View Post

A quick question when i go into Speaker/manual setup/ level and choose a speaker to adjust and this includes the test tone I have a small red bar followed by a longer blue bar then a red bar the same size as the blue bar followed by another blue bar the same length as the 2 previous bars and finally a short red bar ...........i don't remember this being there when i initially set this system up is this normal

I couldn't duplicate that.
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post #1761 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

thanks for agreeing!

gmta

I took the red pill.
(and got screwed by Toshiba)
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post #1762 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 03:22 PM
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Anybody know a good code for a Dish Network VIP722k receiver/dvr?
I tried all the ones on the cd-rom.
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post #1763 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 03:23 PM
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my tv (samsung c8000) causes my 667 to switch audio sources when it turns on. For example, if I turn on the 667 and select 'tv scene' it will work perfectly until the tv turns on and then forces the 667 to switch to the tv audio (which is nothing because the audio is coming from direct tv receiver)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe01880 View Post

Disable HDMI control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSmith View Post

Turn of CEC technology in your display.

Mark

Ok so I tried both of these options. Disabling HDMI control seems to stop the audio input from being changed by the tv, however, now i get no sound from the tv.

Man, thought I knew a lot about this receiver but now im getting frustrated!

Thanks for any further input you can give guys.

-Dan
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post #1764 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmercer3 View Post

my tv (samsung c8000) causes my 667 to switch audio sources when it turns on. For example, if I turn on the 667 and select 'tv scene' it will work perfectly until the tv turns on and then forces the 667 to switch to the tv audio (which is nothing because the audio is coming from direct tv receiver)





Ok so I tried both of these options. Disabling HDMI control seems to stop the audio input from being changed by the tv, however, now i get no sound from the tv.

Man, thought I knew a lot about this receiver but now im getting frustrated!

Thanks for any further input you can give guys.

-Dan

Ensure that you've set your receiver to pass audio via hdmi to the tv.
On Screen>Setup>HDMI>Audio Output (ON). This should enable you to get audio from your tv's speakers. If you use HDMI control under these circumstances, remember to turn your receiver on after your tv if you want audio from the receiver.
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post #1765 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 05:26 PM
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The 'large speaker' + extra bass scenario really pisses me off.

I have fronts that go to 30hz and that's one of the reasons I bought them.
So basically when you set your speaker to large your sub will play front channel bass ( below it's crossover ) in addition to your front speakers playing the bass, so it's the same effect for the sub as though the bass was being re-directed when the speakers are set to small. Except of course the fronts are playing the bass too.

Does anyone find the sound when the extra bass is on jarring or unnatural or does it just add a bit more power, is the sound balanced or exaggerated with the front channel bass as well?

For people that like setting all speakers to small this would not be a problem, but as I want my fronts set to large to get the most out of their range...this is a serious problem and might make me go for a different receiver.
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post #1766 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
The 'large speaker' + extra bass scenario really pisses me off.
Does this model allow the setup of two subs?

If it's like the Aventage line then you could set your sub to be the 'rear' of a front & rear pair of subs, in this mode only the LFE channel (and not front L & R bass) will go to the rear sub
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post #1767 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
The 'large speaker' + extra bass scenario really pisses me off. I have fronts that go to 30hz and that's one of the reasons I bought them. . . . Does anyone find the sound when the extra bass is on jarring or unnatural or does it just add a bit more power, is the sound balanced or exaggerated with the front channel bass as well?
I've found that setting 'extra bass' ON can be advantageous in some situations and disadvantageous in others, even with the same speakers. The determining factors (for a particular mix of L|C|R speakers and SUBs) seems [to me] to be a function of room geometry/speaker placement plus wall/room contents reflection/absorption characteristics. In a new set up situation, I try extra bass both ON and OFF, carefully set up each way. I typically find one of the two settings sounds 'good' . . . and the other either 'boomy', or 'thin', as the case may be.

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post #1768 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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Here are my findings with the 867 with speaker setup. Even though my main speakers will go down to a low enough frequency, they are not as efficient as the dedicated powered sub nor are they powered similarly . Even though they may be capable of playing as low as 38 Hz, as the roll off around 40 Hz is -3db, it would take about twice the amount of power to get the same SPL level in that range, if the efficiencies were even equal. Since the mains are not as efficient as a powered sub, the powered differences would be even further skewed from the mains providing as much bass as the Sub. Also, there is the possibility of some bass frequencies being out of phase between Main R, L, and Sub in various places in the room.
If you want to try a controlled experiment, you can set your mains to large, disconnect one speaker (at the amp [off] to avoid shorting!) and then plug an active sub into that preamp output and compare your active sub to the passive main speaker. They will get the same signals, but your active sub will be much louder and do a lot more work since it's more efficient. The differences will be noticeable.

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post #1769 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dchalfont View Post
The 'large speaker' + extra bass scenario really pisses me off.

I have fronts that go to 30hz and that's one of the reasons I bought them.
So basically when you set your speaker to large your sub will play front channel bass ( below it's crossover ) in addition to your front speakers playing the bass, so it's the same effect for the sub as though the bass was being re-directed when the speakers are set to small. Except of course the fronts are playing the bass too.

Does anyone find the sound when the extra bass is on jarring or unnatural or does it just add a bit more power, is the sound balanced or exaggerated with the front channel bass as well?

For people that like setting all speakers to small this would not be a problem, but as I want my fronts set to large to get the most out of their range...this is a serious problem and might make me go for a different receiver.
I think there's something psychologically bothering about setting your(and mine) big floor standing speakers to "small". If you switch back and forth between large(with extra bass) and small(without extra bass), you'll find the difference(if your sub is set up properly) is very,very small. Use the setting that sounds best to you. It is that simple. Someone with different speakers in a different room might chose differently. It's not a matter of right or wrong,it's what you prefer, and it's nice to have choices.

this might help; http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/ (from kriktsemaj99)
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post #1770 of 3962 Old 04-09-2011, 06:52 PM
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I think there's something psychologically bothering about setting your(and mine) big floor standing speakers to "small". If you switch back and forth between large(with extra bass) and small(without extra bass), you'll find the difference(if your sub is set up properly) is very,very small. Use the setting that sounds best to you. It is that simple. Someone with different speakers in a different room might chose differently. It's not a matter of right or wrong,it's what you prefer, and it's nice to have choices.

this might help; http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/ (from kriktsemaj99)
I understand the psychology of people having a problem with the word small.

That is not my problem at all. For one the LFE channel is mono, having one or more subs producing the bass frequencies from 30-60hz ( which is what I stand to lose ) removes the directionality of those sounds that would come from the front mains without that conundrum.

I also don't like how the fronts sound after they have been neutered.

Everyone here may as well throw their floor standing systems in the garbage and get a satellite system and 4 subs if all that matters to them is the LFE.

I use my system for equal parts gaming, music, and movies.

For a home theatre only setup maybe it wouldn't be that big a deal. But for music not having any of that bass coming from the fronts just sounds horribly thin.

I have my surrounds and centre set to 'Small' for logical reasons. The lowest my centre goes is 55hz and my surrounds 60hz. So it makes sense to set my crossover to 60hz to get the most out of them. In order to get the most out of my fronts I have them set to large. Their is no delusion. I'm just setting don't want exaggerated LFE in place of directional bass from my speakers which adds to the separation of the channels and in my opinion; the quality of music.
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