Pioneer VSX-1020 vs Pioneer VSX-31 vs Onkyo TX-SR608 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I thought that I had decided on the Onkyo 608 but then I read about winston9332's bug about reducing the quality of HDMI Video, then the Pioneer Elite VSX-31 comes out today. So now I have no idea what I am going to do.

Are there any recommendations for any of these


Pioneer VSX-1020
Pro
has ethernet and streaming
Con
weak

Pioneer VSX-31
Pro
has dual 12V triggers,
2 year warranty over 1 year (1020),
ability to use the RF remote control
the Elite styling (amber display)
the "Pioneer Elite" name
Con
most expensive

Onkyo TX-SR608
Pro
cheapest
most powerful
duel sub-out
Con
reduces the quality of HDMI Video or no upscaling and OSD



Can anyone help me make this a full list
I will keep updated if people say anything
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:54 PM
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I am trying to decide between receivers in this price range. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I like the extra Bell's and Whistles the pioneers comes with, but I am not sure it has enough power.

Setup is 5.1 with paradigm monitor speakers.
The receiver would be replacing a 8 year old Yamaha RXV-640

Any advise or thoughts would be appreciated.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:35 PM
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So you are aware, both Pioneer 1020 and Onkyo 608 have a bug when running in 24p you lose close to 10db as well both players freeze when running 2d BD movies,
Pioneer has a great picture, i tested both units for 3 days and i said for get it, and spent the money on a Denon AVR-3310CI

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme22 View Post

So you are aware, both Pioneer 1020 and Onkyo 608 have a bug when running in 24p you lose close to 10db as well both players freeze when running 2d BD movies,
Pioneer has a great picture, i tested both units for 3 days and i said for get it, and spent the money on a Denon AVR-3310CI

I am strongly considering getting the 1910 and wasn't aware of those issues. I did a quick search of the 1020 thread and didn't find anything about these... could you explain these more or point me to where I can find more info? Does the freezing occur even if HDMI is just set for pass thru?

Thanks
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:33 AM
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You just blew up my Pioneer 1020 bubble too... how hard is it to make a good 1.4 capable receiver that doesn't mess up the HDMI signal?
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme22 View Post

So you are aware, both Pioneer 1020 and Onkyo 608 have a bug when running in 24p you lose close to 10db as well both players freeze when running 2d BD movies,
Pioneer has a great picture, i tested both units for 3 days and i said for get it, and spent the money on a Denon AVR-3310CI

Please explain further on this. It makes little sense.
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Please explain further on this. It makes little sense.

okay so i had the 808 & 1020 connected to panny 3d tv, and sammy 3d plasma at my bestbuy, side by side
in a private room we have, and i tested both units and found that they had flaws,

like i said for some people that can understand what i am trying to say,
when both receivers are out putting 24P 3d and 2d you lose 10db in sound

so if you have you are listening at +4.5 you lose 10db
so the sound decreases in 24p

this is on both view ether pass thr or non pass thru, I talked to Pioneer and they are aware of this issue this is with both
1.4 and 3.1a cables we even tested non 3d tvs and the same issues, even the 3d and non 3d BD players was having issues

the Denon seemed to work fine with no issues not to sure what is happening on Pionners or Onk side

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme22 View Post

okay so i had the 808 & 1020 connected to panny 3d tv, and sammy 3d plasma at my bestbuy,
in a private room we have, and i tested both units and found that they had flaws,

like i said for some people that can understand what i am trying to say,
when both receivers are out putting 24P 3d and 2d you lose 10db in sound

so if you have you are listening at +4.5 you lose 10db
so the sound decreases in 24p

did you measure the volume? the test environment does not sound very clinical. how do you know it was not an issue with the bdp or hdmi if it appeared the same with both receivers?
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

did you measure the volume? the test environment does not sound very clinical. how do you know it was not an issue with the bdp or hdmi if it appeared the same with both receivers?

I did not officially measure the volume we did not have the tools to do that but you could hear the drop in volume, I thought that I was going crazy but the drop in volume as well

Like i said we used 1.4 monster cables and 1.4 rockfish cables
as well panny and sammy 3d bd players, we ruled out the panny and sammy 3d bd players and the cables because this was happening on a reg plasma TVs and reg bd players,

From jdsmoothie "Before returning your Denon as being defective ... "Reset the Microprocessor" (see Owner's Manual for instructions)
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

did you measure the volume? the test environment does not sound very clinical. how do you know it was not an issue with the bdp or hdmi if it appeared the same with both receivers?

When you can clearly hear or see a defect, clinical measurement seems to be excessive, unless you just like to have numbers associated with everything.

This drop in sound level seemed drastic enough to be noticable by that basic measurement tool - the human ear.

When I get up in the morning and look out the window, I don't use a light meter to tell me that it's sunny, so I may not be the measurement type.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

When you can clearly hear or see a defect, clinical measurement seems to be excessive, unless you just like to have numbers associated with everything.

This drop in sound level seemed drastic enough to be noticable by that basic measurement tool - the human ear.

When I get up in the morning and look out the window, I don't use a light meter to tell me that it's sunny, so I may not be the measurement type.

3d is obviously a very new technology and we probably are learning more and more about it as it develops. we have already learned that codecs decoded in the receiver tend to be louder (not better) than lpcm. who knows - there may be a similar phenomenon with 3d. i guess my point is it's probably not fair to label it as a bug of the onkyo or pioneer until it is confirmed that there is a receiver that does not have a similar lower level.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

When you can clearly hear or see a defect, clinical measurement seems to be excessive, unless you just like to have numbers associated with everything.

This drop in sound level seemed drastic enough to be noticable by that basic measurement tool - the human ear.

When I get up in the morning and look out the window, I don't use a light meter to tell me that it's sunny, so I may not be the measurement type.

To your point, i clearly saw a video processing issues with the 608 and i recall you had the light meter out for the sunny day
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

3d is obviously a very new technology and we probably are learning more and more about it as it develops. we have already learned that codecs decoded in the receiver tend to be louder (not better) than lpcm. who knows - there may be a similar phenomenon with 3d. i guess my point is it's probably not fair to label it as a bug of the onkyo or pioneer until it is confirmed that there is a receiver that does not have a similar lower level.

As I read the post, the volume loss was with either 2D or 3D material. The trigger seemed to be 24p output being enabled.

If Pioneer is "aware" of the issue, this means that they are still trying to categorize the disparity as a "problem" or a "feature". Unintended "features" are less expensive for manufacturers, as they don't require a fix.

I agree that people jumping into the 3D world will likely face numerous compatiliblity issues and challenges over the next year or so.

Based on this thread, it appears that Denon may have fewer issues (or unintended features) than the other brands.

Key to selection at this point may be ease of firmware update process and the history of the manufacturers in developing needed firmware fixes.

Onkyo, for example, had had a history of not posting firmware updates for their lower end receivers, requiring owners to ship them to a service center - at the owner's expense - to have a simple fix applied. The 600 series fall into this lower end category.

The firmware updates for the 608 can be done by burning a disc and using the optical in on the receiver, but Onkyo does not support this being done by the user a and doesn't publish either the firmware or the process for updating.

To me, this is an important buying decision, affecting both the overall cost of the unit over time, and the issue of having to unhook everything and incur the expense of mailing + downtime.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

As I read the post, the volume loss was with either 2D or 3D material. The trigger seemed to be 24p output being enabled.

If Pioneer is "aware" of the issue, this means that they are still trying to categorize the disparity as a "problem" or a "feature". Unintended "features" are less expensive for manufacturers, as they don't require a fix.

I agree that people jumping into the 3D world will likely face numerous compatiliblity issues and challenges over the next year or so.

Based on this thread, it appears that Denon may have fewer issues (or unintended features) than the other brands.

Key to selection at this point may be ease of firmware update process and the history of the manufacturers in developing needed firmware fixes.

Onkyo, for example, had had a history of not posting firmware updates for their lower end receivers, requiring owners to ship them to a service center - at the owner's expense - to have a simple fix applied. The 600 series fall into this lower end category.

The firmware updates for the 608 can be done by burning a disc and using the optical in on the receiver, but Onkyo does not support this being done by the user a and doesn't publish either the firmware or the process for updating.

To me, this is an important buying decision, affecting both the overall cost of the unit over time, and the issue of having to unhook everything and incur the expense of mailing + downtime.

Poster said it happened to both Onkyo and Pioneer. This might be a source-specific problem (ie the blu-ray players themselves).
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:33 PM
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So I guess the magical question is which receiver company is the best at posting firmware updates and which receivers are the easiest to update?

And for a follow-up:
Which receivers (if any) have an ethernet connection on the back that allows for easy firmware updates like how the latest Blu-Ray players have?
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:00 PM
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I have an issue like that on my onkyo 708 where the sound just seems to be too low. I don't have a 3d television, and i'm playing bluray movies through a ps3
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:38 AM
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I am trying to decide between the Onkyo 608 and Pioneer VSX-31 myself. I have two questions:

- I will have large speakers up front and smaller surrounds, so I need the ability to set a different crossover for each speaker. Downloaded the manuals for both and I see that you can do this for the Onkyo but apparently the Pioneer just has one master crossover setting and can't set crossover per speaker. Can anyone confirm or dispute this?

- My setup will use a projector, so the ability to plug in any analog (or HDMI) source and have it sent by the reciver via a single HDMI cable would be huge. Both receivers seem to do this, but I'm trying to find which would have better video quality, particularly with component to HDMI and upscaling to 1080p.

Thanks!
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:52 AM
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You didn't lower the sound through the PS3 menu right? (triangle then change sound +/- 3)
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