New Onkyo TX-NR5008 & TX-NR3008 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ Essentially. Again though, you can take 5 minutes configuring it correctly to all but alleviate the issue. There's solid reasons to chase after the Denon 4311, but this is not one of them, IMHO.

James

LOL i agree. The Onkyo clicking has been blown out of proportion because like you said, people don't configure properly.

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post #152 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 10:11 AM
 
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No matter what, the change from 5.1 to 2.0 and back to 5.1 will cause a click, its is the
scenario for most TV programming. The denon is all soild state in the digital / analog input /output modes, relay clicks only for direct/bypass stereo modes.

Thats the reason I didn't keep the 607 and got a 1909
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post #153 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Note:
Audyssey, CTO Chris Kyrakakis, has just announced, that the first production run of the 3008 / 5008 has a firmware bug, which causes the stated problems. There will be an official announcement by Onkyo following, up to which serial no this problem exists. For those units affected a firmware update will be provided by Onkyo.

gurkey,

Thanks for sharing this information, but I'm still torn between the TX-NR3008 and the Denon AVR-4311CI. The Denon has some nice features, but I'm trying to look for a compelling reason to buy the Onkyo and be done with it.


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post #154 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 11:56 AM
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I'm sharing the results of all my research for free all I ask is that you and your contacts tell Bill at H.F.H. that Woody B sent you/them.

Thanx Woody B

http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/st....Hifiheaven2002

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B what you ask ??

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post #155 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 11:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

gurkey,

Thanks for sharing this information, but I'm still torn between the TX-NR3008 and the Denon AVR-4311CI. The Denon has some nice features, but I'm trying to look for a compelling reason to buy the Onkyo and be done with it.


Willie

Call me crazy, but I do feel the onkyo amps sound stronger an denons.
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post #156 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 12:26 PM
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I won't call you crazy, I'll just say that I don't think you (or anyone else) could pick either out consistently at even VERY loud spls.

Outside of the THX porcessing modes, I simply do not see a reason feature/performance-wise to choose the 3008.

Denon has in its corner:

11.X potential
Superior Video Chip
Pre-Amp functionality
Better GUI
Digital inputs to 2/3 zones




That said, as mentioned here before, the 3008 could easily be 3-$400 cheaper.

Value's my mantra and no doubt the 3008's stuffed with it.

James

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post #157 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 12:39 PM
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i have been looking at the tx-nr5008, but now am confused regarding the 'clicking' issue. How big a deal is this? Is it likely there is a fix coming down the pike? What, if anything, would be a good consideration for a replacement?
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post #158 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I won't call you crazy, I'll just say that I don't think you (or anyone else) could pick either out consistently at even VERY loud spls.

Outside of the THX porcessing modes, I simply do not see a reason feature/performance-wise to choose the 3008.

Denon has in its corner:

11.X potential
Superior Video Chip
Pre-Amp functionality
Better GUI
Digital inputs to 2/3 zones

How much of that do you really need? (And doesn't the 3008 have "pre-amp functionality"?) Personally, I would and will never use 11 channel (not in this house), I have a video processor, and I use a different receiver to power the music throughout my house. That leaves "Better Gui", which once you get one of these set up, you never look at (at least I haven't in the last several years).

Bob
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post #159 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 01:11 PM
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If you had read the previous posts, you would have known already, that this is a "no issue" dating back as far as the "old" TX-NR905 and others.
Just reread those, please... because i don't want to repeat myself ... again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gupta011 View Post

i have been looking at the tx-nr5008, but now am confused regarding the 'clicking' issue. How big a deal is this? Is it likely there is a fix coming down the pike? What, if anything, would be a good consideration for a replacement?

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post #160 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I won't call you crazy, I'll just say that I don't think you (or anyone else) could pick either out consistently at even VERY loud spls.

I know I could easy tell them apart, the low end of the 607 is soild sounding and the 1909 sounded thin by A/B them. I happen to be one of those who really listens to music, not just build towers of hardware
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post #161 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I won't call you crazy, I'll just say that I don't think you (or anyone else) could pick either out consistently at even VERY loud spls.

Outside of the THX porcessing modes, I simply do not see a reason feature/performance-wise to choose the 3008.

Denon has in its corner:

11.X potential
Superior Video Chip
Pre-Amp functionality
Better GUI
Digital inputs to 2/3 zones


That said, as mentioned here before, the 3008 could easily be 3-$400 cheaper.

Value's my mantra and no doubt the 3008's stuffed with it.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

How much of that do you really need? (And doesn't the 3008 have "pre-amp functionality"?) Personally, I would and will never use 11 channel (not in this house), I have a video processor, and I use a different receiver to power the music throughout my house. That leaves "Better Gui", which once you get one of these set up, you never look at (at least I haven't in the last several years).

ctviggen,

The Denon might not be the right AVR for you because of your needs and setup, but everyone's situation and setup is different. Those items that James list may be important to some prospective buyers. Never say never when it comes to future needs. I personally will not benefit from 11 channels, but that could change. Also, the Pre-Amp functionality is a feature that all AVRs should have at this price point in my opinion. Maybe we will see it the 3009 or whatever the replacement for the 3008.


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post #162 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googlegod View Post

I know I could easy tell the them apart, the low end of the 607 is soild sounding and the 1909 sounded thin by A/B them. I happen to be one of those who really listens to music, not just build towers of hardware

googlegod,

We are a lot higher up the food chain than a comparison between the 607 and a 1909. Since, the Denon AVR-4311CI and the Onkyo TX-NR3008 have implemented from the upper end of Burr Brown DACs your ears may not be as golden as you think. If I'm not mistaken the AVR-4311CI and the TX-NR5008 use the same Burr Brown DACs, but different implementations of course.


Willie

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post #163 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I won't call you crazy, I'll just say that I don't think you (or anyone else) could pick either out consistently at even VERY loud spls.

Outside of the THX porcessing modes, I simply do not see a reason feature/performance-wise to choose the 3008.

Denon has in its corner:

11.X potential
Superior Video Chip
Pre-Amp functionality
Better GUI
Digital inputs to 2/3 zones




That said, as mentioned here before, the 3008 could easily be 3-$400 cheaper.

Value's my mantra and no doubt the 3008's stuffed with it.

James

Hello,
I am not so sure about Anchor Bay's Chip being superior to Reon. That is certainly up for debate. Denon's Preamp Only function is excellent and truly is a great idea though I do believe the AVR-4800 offered this years ago as well. Awesome regardless.

I am also not so sure about the Denon having a superior GUI. This is another thing that is somewhat subjective. Digital Inputs to Zones 2 & 3 is a great feature for sure as is having support for 11 Channels simultaneously. Though I do question how many people can accommodate 11 Speakers and 2 Subwoofers in their Room/HT.
Cheers,
AD

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post #164 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

The "relay clicking" issue wasn't one, really, because it happened only, if the user did not setup default audio modes in the units setup, thus causing the unit to hunt / search for a new mode every time the input parameters changed. They just added a convenience feature, to have this subdued in the case, this was the cause.
This matter - and its remedy - has been discussed extensively in several forums and threads already.
I do have one of the "big" Onkyos and it never happened to me...

without being an *******, where exactly would I find the discussed "matter - and its remedy"?
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post #165 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 07:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

googlegod,

We are a lot higher up the food chain than a comparison between the 607 and a 1909. Since, the Denon AVR-4311CI and the Onkyo TX-NR3008 have implemented from the upper end of Burr Brown DACs your ears may not be as golden as you think. If I'm not mistaken the AVR-4311CI and the TX-NR5008 use the same Burr Brown DACs, but different implementations of course.


Willie

True that I haven't given the new highend denons and onkyos a hard listening too in my home lately, the last overpriced AVR I purchased is my denon 3300 which I use as pre amp to a peavey 1500 amp to power my old Tympani 1D which I only use for music. I had phase linear (pre and amp) by bob carver, but his crap never lasts long.
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post #166 of 8702 Old 09-01-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

How much of that do you really need? (And doesn't the 3008 have "pre-amp functionality"?) Personally, I would and will never use 11 channel (not in this house), I have a video processor, and I use a different receiver to power the music throughout my house. That leaves "Better Gui", which once you get one of these set up, you never look at (at least I haven't in the last several years).

Yes the 3008 has a pre-amp ability. The difference is the 4311 has a preamp mode setting that disables the receivers internal amps where the 3008 does not have the ability to turn off the receiver's internal amps. Meaning you are using more electricity when you are not even "using" the 3008's internal amps when you are using an external amp. If the internal receiver amp is not being used, that also means less heat in your audio cabinet too.

One interesting thing from this preview from AudioholicsI of the 4311 "In a brilliant move, Denon has allowed the Pre Amp Mode optional setting in which selected amplifier channels may also be configured for multi-zone use, while the main zone amplifiers are shut down."

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post #167 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 12:37 AM
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Just search for it here (several threads) and in other forums.
More easily setup those default audio modes in the setup of your Onkyo AVR and see what happens yourself. That's the way i did it.
The AVR only starts searching for another mode, if it doesn't know, where to go next. With those default modes it knows beforehand.
My previous 905, my current 876 (and the just acquired 5007 i expect) did never "click" its relays after it had turned on... and i should know (hopefully), sitting about 8 ft away from the unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gupta011 View Post

without being an *******, where exactly would I find the discussed "matter - and its remedy"?

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post #168 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 06:15 AM
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^ the funny thing about 99% of the above:

is that it's readily dismissing the Denon's advantages while not promoting a SINGLE advantage of the 3008.


First, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that no one on this forum could differentiate between the 4311 and 3008 in a level-matched ABX.

I've personally had/owned both the Reon and ABT and feel the ABT does a better job. By no means is either a deal breaker/maker, just saying. I believe most critical reviews I've read have leaned that way as well.

Ditto for pre-amp mode.

The 11 channel option though is VERY significant, especially when you consider the type of enthusiast who's spending this kind of time and money on an AVR. Many (like me) can, desire and WILL use an 11 speaker array.

Accepting digital inputs in other zones should be expected in a flagship receiver, IMO. Denon does it with mid-models.

I'm still figuring if the 11 channel is a must for me, but I consider too that although it may not be NOW, I'm moving to a future, expanded spot where it'll be easily utilized.

I like both units, one to me simply offers more, for a few hundred more, of course.

James

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post #169 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

How much of that do you really need? (And doesn't the 3008 have "pre-amp functionality"?) Personally, I would and will never use 11 channel (not in this house), I have a video processor, and I use a different receiver to power the music throughout my house. That leaves "Better Gui", which once you get one of these set up, you never look at (at least I haven't in the last several years).

Asking a rabid AV-hobbyist how many features he really "needs" is like asking a guy with a corvette how much horsepower he really "needs".

Neither of these devices are made nor intended for joe or suzy six-pack. And at this price point, since so many other aspects are at/near equilibrium, features and other, even more narrow factors always seem to be the differentiators (assuming one doesn't make a selection that's nearly entirely predicated upon brand loyalty).

James

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post #170 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ the funny thing about 99% of the above:

is that it's readily dismissing the Denon's advantages while not promoting a SINGLE advantage of the 3008.


First, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that no one on this forum could differentiate between the 4311 and 3008 in a level-matched ABX.

I've personally had/owned both the Reon and ABT and feel the ABT does a better job. By no means is either a deal breaker/maker, just saying. I believe most critical reviews I've read have leaned that way as well.

Ditto for pre-amp mode.

The 11 channel option though is VERY significant, especially when you consider the type of enthusiast who's spending this kind of time and money on an AVR. Many (like me) can, desire and WILL use an 11 speaker array.

Accepting digital inputs in other zones should be expected in a flagship receiver, IMO. Denon does it with mid-models.

I'm still figuring if the 11 channel is a must for me, but I consider too that although it may not be NOW, I'm moving to a future, expanded spot where it'll be easily utilized.

I like both units, one to me simply offers more, for a few hundred more, of course.

James

I'm considering both the 4311 and the 3008. My main sticking points are that the 3008 is heavier by 16 lbs (assuming the power supplies are beefier) and it has the THX ultra select 2 cert (not sure how exactly important that really is to me).

The 4311 has the 11 channel option (not that I will use all 11 just like the flexibility option) and the ability to shut off amps to reduce heat and not use as much wall juice if i run an external amp

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post #171 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 06:41 AM
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For the green leaves expecting to reduce their carbon footprint or save money by shutting down their AVRs internals and utilizing (an) external amplifier(s), forget it.

Substituting the AVRs own amps for, likely, more powerful substitutes will increase BOTH.

Now, if you plan on using an amp from the get, and/or believe switching off said internal amps will increase fidelity, that's another kettle of fish.

Still a nice option to have.

I'm sorry, but assuming one AVR will sound/perform better or be more reliable than another simply because it weighs "x" more lbs is a bit archaic, in this day and age. Again, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that EITHER one of these units will play very loudly, very cleanly, with little strain.

As a believer in THX and the "guarantees" of performance they offer, a particular unit's badging of such is certainly not a reason to dismiss another hi-end component. Again though, if you really lust after their proprietary processing modes, that's a bit different.

James

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post #172 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 07:17 AM
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Fyi ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

here is the latest information that i have received. Onkyo has identified a firmware issue that affects the results of the multeq xt 32 calibration. Their engineering team is working very hard to fix it. They expect to post a firmware update on their website very soon (in the next few days).

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post #173 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
I am not so sure about Anchor Bay's Chip being superior to Reon. That is certainly up for debate. Denon's Preamp Only function is excellent and truly is a great idea though I do believe the AVR-4800 offered this years ago as well. Awesome regardless.

I am also not so sure about the Denon having a superior GUI. This is another thing that is somewhat subjective. Digital Inputs to Zones 2 & 3 is a great feature for sure as is having support for 11 Channels simultaneously. Though I do question how many people can accommodate 11 Speakers and 2 Subwoofers in their Room/HT.
Cheers,
AD

AD,

I agree that the GUI and video are subjective, but Onkyo doesn't get a pass for not including some of these features at least on the 5008. The preamp feature as well as the ability to do 11.2 which I have no desire to do at present are nice features to have just in case.

This is not directed at you, but I refuse to dismiss a feature(s) because a competing prodcut has it. I guess the 3008 and 5008 replacements may incorporate these features, but Onkyo is still in the running for my 2010 purchase.


Willie

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post #174 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 08:16 AM
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I'm kinda lost on the point being made about the Denon's ability to shut down internally while using external amps, the Onkyo not being able to do this?

I had my Ipod hooked up to an Integra 50.2 running the Ipod on Zones 2&3 off external amps and the internal amps were not on? Is this what's being referred to in the arguments I have read? Or is it something different?
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post #175 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldiablos View Post

I'm considering both the 4311 and the 3008. My main sticking points are that the 3008 is heavier by 16 lbs (assuming the power supplies are beefier) and it has the THX ultra select 2 cert (not sure how exactly important that really is to me).

The 4311 has the 11 channel option (not that I will use all 11 just like the flexibility option) and the ability to shut off amps to reduce heat and not use as much wall juice if i run an external amp

Eldiablos,

Those are the pros and cons of either AVR so it comes down to which features have more value in your setup. Some believe that preferring the Denon means you think it is a better product and vice-versa.

You mention the 3008 is heavier and that it has THX Ultra Select2. However, you're assuming of the benefits of one (weight) and wasn't quite sure of the benefit of the other (THX), but those are valid points in your purchase decision. You've also made valid points in favor of the Denon.

Depending on needs either component will be the right choice.


Willie

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post #176 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shnapper View Post

I'm kinda lost on the point being made about the Denon's ability to shut down internally while using external amps, the Onkyo not being able to do this?

I had my Ipod hooked up to an Integra 50.2 running the Ipod on Zones 2&3 off external amps and the internal amps were not on? Is this what's being referred to in the arguments I have read? Or is it something different?

Most AVR's, when used as a pre-amp (or even in a dedicated pre-amp mode), still have power going to the amps, and the audio is still "routed" to them....

The Denon design, however, shuts down the amps not being used and "disconnects" the audio path to them internally..

While it may save on electricity (which you will use anyways for your external amps) Denon claims it creates a "cleaner" pre amp section, and hence may make the audio path "better" or "purer."

If it makes an audible difference is up for research and debate.
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post #177 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 08:41 AM
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I'm kinda lost on the point being made about the Denon's ability to shut down internally while using external amps, the Onkyo not being able to do this?

I had my Ipod hooked up to an Integra 50.2 running the Ipod on Zones 2&3 off external amps and the internal amps were not on? Is this what's being referred to in the arguments I have read? Or is it something different?

Opinion: shutting down internal, unused amplifiers translates into increased sound quality for reasons really beyond the scope of your question. Some would say: absolutely, some would say: not a chance. YMMV.

Fact: if one is going to use external amplification anyway, extinguishing internal AVR amplifiers will reduce heat and electricity consumption.

Fact: although you were just using zones 2 & 3, the entire amplification section of the AVR MAY have been powered on, athough I'm pretty sure in your case the Onkyo does not power on the other 5 channels when JUST using the other zones. This is more directed at those using a 5/7/9/11 channel array in the main room with external amps. People now have the ability to turn off the amps they are "pre-outting" to (an) external amplifier(S) when, in the past, they could not.

I think that nut-shells it.

James

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post #178 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 09:29 AM
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Opinion: shutting down internal, unused amplifiers translates into increased sound quality for reasons really beyond the scope of your question. Some would say: absolutely, some would say: not a chance. YMMV.

Fact: if one is going to use external amplification anyway, extinguishing internal AVR amplifiers will reduce heat and electricity consumption.

Fact: although you were just using zones 2 & 3, the entire amplification section of the AVR MAY have been powered on, athough I'm pretty sure in your case the Onkyo does not power on the other 5 channels when JUST using the other zones. This is more directed at those using a 5/7/9/11 channel array in the main room with external amps. People now have the ability to turn off the amps they are "pre-outting" to (an) external amplifier(S) when, in the past, they could not.

I think that nut-shells it.

James


Ahhhh ok, this goes way back to the reason I have all these NAD amps.. My plan way back in the day way to run a CP-3 because I didn't like integrated receivers. Over the last 18 years things have vastly improved so I ditched that whole massive separates idea. Considering all this why would those seeking power shut down even bother with a receiver and not a stand alone processor? I would assume it's the money savings you get when buying integrated?
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post #179 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 10:51 AM
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^ Essentially. If you're like me and believe most/many PRE/PROS are simply overpriced, glorified receivers without amp sections and with balanced outputs, you realize there's a sizeable amount of cash to be saved by going with a nearly identical AVR.

Seemingly, this 4311 offers the best of both worlds (if we agree that most would never realize any sonic benefit from XLRs (balanced) interconnects in a 2-3 foot run).

And I don't know that anyone was really seeking it, per se, but it is a nice little perk I guess.


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post #180 of 8702 Old 09-02-2010, 02:20 PM
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Ok the 5008 got here this morning and is all hooked up and running. I didn't even do an Audyssey EQ as I don't want to hear any errors. So I can't tell you if it functions properly or not.

If for some reason you all want me to run XT32, I might. I only did a manual set up and it's decent, but I know it will sound better letting Audyssey take over. I watched Transformers at a Medium volume (65 on meter) and the unit gets pretty hot. No biggy as my Rotel RSX-1065 got fairly hot as well and I never had a problem..

I'm going to do some 2 channel playback in a bit here to see how musical the Onkyo is and I will come back and edit this post and check to see if someone wants me to run the Audyssey EQ...

I'm running some older stuff, B&W 705 mains, Velodyne F-1500R Sub, Sonance T series in walls(sides and rears).
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