The "Official" Onkyo TX-NR808 Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:56 PM
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I have just ordered 808 to replace my 6 year old Onkyo HT-RC230.
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:14 AM
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And I just ordered an 808 to replace a two-year-old 606. Decided I wanted the HDMI1.4/3D capability and a few dozen more watts per channel just enough to stop waffling and just buy it. Plus I really like symmetry in my AVR model numbers.

I figured that there is a chance the price will drop another $20 or $40 over the next few months, but what the hay, I'll scratch that itch and buy now.

However, all my work looking for the best price also means that I probably want to upgrade my HT AV Rack, since the 808 will be a tighter fit than I would like unless I drop the shelf even lower (and it is quite low now).

Sigh, upgraditis strikes again. Next will be speakers, I fear...



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Old 04-14-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmeelik View Post

I finally decided to upgrade my vintage 110w/rms 2ch pioneer amp and 170w/rms speaker (each has 3" tweeter, 5" mid and 2x12" sub) system to a home theater system... Should I have bought a receiver in $500.0 range with pre-outs and buy external amps like an Emotiva to get the clarity and volume as my old amp?

I'm having a similar ''problem.'' In short, The max volume doesn't seem to be as high as I desire or expect. The quality is perfectly fine, but there is no threat to the integrity of the speakers as compared to my previous setup.


To back up a bit, my previous system was a Luxman C-02/M-02 combo that fed into a pair of Technics SB-CR77s (25-200W, 8Ω). I now have an NR808 that feeds into the same speakers. When I tested volume output, I used my iPod and a mini jack to RCA for both setups.

Basically when I plug the iPod into the Luxman and adjust the volume knob, I achieve normal volume at 1/16th of a turn, the room becomes unbearable at 1/4 turn, and I fear the speakers will explode at 1/3 turn.

With the Onkyo, the room is comfortable around 30/100, and only just unbearable at 100/100 on the volume slider (abs). As a corollary, adjusting the volume takes an unbearably long time. I feel I should be able to further drive the speakers if I so choose, since the wattage rating is not so different. Is there any reason for this, or is there some safety limiting thing in more modern receivers?

Assume I have reviewed the Volume Adjustment thread
(http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289208)
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:53 PM
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im having the lockup issue as was brought up on page 47. keeps resetting back to the cbl/sat output. no other buttons work. if i pull the plug from the wall it sometimes works for a little while then resets back to cbl/sat. remote wont work either. clearing the memory does nothing to help the issue.

if i hold down the input i want while turning it on it stays on that input but cant change volume or anything still.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:09 AM
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got mine set up pretty quickly, some features are a bit buried compared to my old 705.

Even got Pandora and Sirius set up, I just need to figure out why it can see my Gaming PC's share, but not my HTPC share folder. They are both on a custom workgroup with no password.

Switches 3D nicely between PS3 BluRays and Games (fat), and Comcast 3D.

More tests and setting, but pretty happy so far. I just wish I had made the jump back when people were finding it for $700 instead of the $850 I paid.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarious View Post

Is there any reason for this, or is there some safety limiting thing in more modern receivers?

Did you use an SPL meter to set reference level to 75db?
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgephri View Post

I just wish I had made the jump back when people were finding it for $700 instead of the $850 I paid.

Why'd you pay so much? It's not The $680 that it was a couple of months ago, but Amazon still has it for $750.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

Why'd you pay so much? It's not The $680 that it was a couple of months ago, but Amazon still has it for $750.

There is also "The Egg", which was my source, for a little less again.

Earlier this week new (non-refurb) units were more expensive through Amazon IIRC, or perhaps Dgephri has another preferred supplier and was willing to pay a bit more.

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Old 04-15-2011, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temerarious View Post

Basically when I plug the iPod into the Luxman and adjust the volume knob, I achieve normal volume at 1/16th of a turn, the room becomes unbearable at 1/4 turn, and I fear the speakers will explode at 1/3 turn.

With the Onkyo, the room is comfortable around 30/100, and only just unbearable at 100/100 on the volume slider (abs).

It is possible that your Luxman combo is simply more capable, powerwise, than the ratings indicate.

It is also possible that Onkyo has designed their 808 to max out with a certain maximum amount of THD - i.e. the pre-amp/amp relative sensitivity could have been deisgned to "sound louder" at the expense of of distortion, but they chose not to for reasons unexplained, whereas the Luxman is cranking out huge perceived power but at THDs that are larger than "typical" (which you can't really hear if the loudness is that uncomfortable for you).

Your speakers have a 90 dB/W sensitivity, so they aren't overly onerous to drive for the 808.

I currently have a 606 with similar size/sensitivity speakers as you (though mine aren't capable of 200W), and I have no problem making my room uncomfortably loud at the top end of the volume knob. The extra 45 W/ch of the 808 will be a really nice treat for me.

Dunno, assuming your 808 is set-up properly as you mentioned (6 ohm and above speakers selected, Audyssey relative volumes make sense, all around 0dB, all of which I'm sure you have got done right) then I have no idea why the 808 seems to be so poorly performing in comparison.

EDIT: It occurs to me that you are using a specific (analog) input type on the Onkyo, for which perhaps it is not optimized, whereas the Luxman will be very optimized for analog, obviously, since it is from the days of yore before HDMI and maybe even S/PDIF (doesn't seem to have S/PDIF from what I can see online). So maybe the Onkyo analog inputs allow for a stronger signal (2V peak to peak vs 1V peak to peak), and your iPod simply doesn't drive the full analog signal range the Onkyo would be capable of using without distorting. Are you using the headphone jack of the iPod or an adapter for the docking port?

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Old 04-15-2011, 10:20 AM
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I used analog for sake of comparison, but my home system is set up with HDMI into everything, and performs similarly. Also, playing flac through the media server provides similar results.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

Why'd you pay so much? It's not The $680 that it was a couple of months ago, but Amazon still has it for $750.

Well...when I hit Add to cart two days ago, it showed as $849.

Local guys, matched that, and I have bought from them before.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:19 PM
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I am looking at a Denon 5308ci an a Onkyo TX-5008 and the new Onkyo receiver coming out.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jappleboy View Post

I am looking at a Denon 5308ci an a Onkyo TX-5008 and the new Onkyo receiver coming out.

(My bold)

Which "new Onkyo receiver"? There are several soon to be released, and more after that expected, in the 3x0, x09 and x009 series?

The 809 should be the equivalent as adding the typical 80x features/power to a 70x receiver: compared to the 808, maybe a bump up to 140 W/ch, upscaling to 4K, maybe yet another HDMI input and probably another HDMI output (the 709 is supposed to have two), maybe a more advanced Audyssey (um 32XT, is that what it might be called?).

More clarification of your choices would be good, and why you are looking at them...

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Old 04-15-2011, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dgephri View Post

just about to pull the trigger on upgrading my 705 to an 808 to gain 3D and more power.

I have the room shown below (click for fullsize):

(image deleted by shinksma from quoted post)

So I've got 7.1 hooked up, but there is little encoded in 7.1 yet.

Would it be better to take my RC-Minis down and use them for Height?

Or should I move the RC-Minis to the sides and use RC-10s for Height?

I would leave it they way it is, and matrix your 5.1 sources to 7.1, which should provide nice rear-corner imaging that you can't achieve with your current speaker locations on their own.

IMHO of course,

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Old 04-16-2011, 12:49 PM
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Hey guys. Quick question. Ever since I switched the receiver over to THX mode on my ps3, I can't get it to say DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD anymore. How can I revert back to that? Thanks

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Old 04-18-2011, 06:57 AM
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Just a heads up for those looking for a certain price point from a certain vendor. Amazon has "updated" pricing (ships from Amazon).

JewDaddy: I assume you are connected via HDMI, and have set the PS3 to bitstream? You probably just need to get out of THX mode on the receiver by cycling through the normal modes.

Also note that if you are using 3D from the PS3, it cannot send out the advanced audio codecs and reverts to 2-ch audio for HDMI - you have to use optical to get any kind of 5.1.

AFAIK at least - the PS3 does have some kind of limitations regarding 3D, since it isn't truly HDMI 1.4 capable, so compromises in the signal bandwidth were made.

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Old 04-19-2011, 09:12 PM
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Got my 808 via UPS today. Setup was a breeze, since it replaces a 606, so all the connections just migrated over, other than the new-and-improved direct connection from 3D BD player (the whole trigger for this purchase), and resultant minor re-organization of HDMI outputs to display devices. The Harmony remote didn't even need reprogramming for the existing/common commands (but I did anyway to add the phono input for "Listen to Vinyl" activity).

Speaking of which, I finally got to play some vinyl - haven't done that in years, despite having older receivers I could have hooked up - too lazy. Note to others: if listening at relatively loud levels, use the direct or pure audio modes for vinyl to disable any subwoofers connected that you have turned up for maximum oomph in movies: the turntable rumble at very low subsonics was making my room vibrate at about 10 Hz. I suppose I could turn down the subwoofers, but I like them as they are for all other sources.

As noted by others, relative to the my 606 the volume must be at a higher "number" to get the same loudness. I typically listened to movies at 55 (scale 0 to 80) or so on the 606, but I need to be at 65 or so on the 808. Recognizing that the 808 goes to 100, that still allows for more overall "loudness" as expected. I suspect the 808 maps the volume setting differently between the 808 and 606: the 606 seemed more linear from 0 to 60, and the 808 seems more logarithmic - e.g. settings of 30 to 35 or so are useful for normal background TV watching, whereas I don't think even 45 would be a suitable volume on the 808 - probably need to go to 50 or so. A volume of 20 on the 606 is audible, but on the 808 is almost a whisper - have to set it to 35 or so for equivalent loudness.

(I have a 606 in the family room I'm using for relatively on-the-fly comparisons.)

I would think the 606 maxxed out at 80 would probably equal the 808 at about the same volume setting or maybe 85 on the 808, so that leaves the 808 with the extra headroom up to 100 for the really big watts. On the other end, the really fine control you have over volume levels from 0 through 20 on the 808 which are equivalent to the range of 0 through 5 or 8 on the 606 seem like overkill.

What also accentuates the feeling of mis-matched range is the finer detail on the 808: volume in half-steps (e.g. 55.5) vs full integer units on the 606 (e.g. 55 or 56, nothing in between).

I noticed when I had a DD audio signal from cable that "Dial Norm -4dB" or maybe "Dialog Norm -4dB" is displayed when I switch to that input. This thread has a couple people noting Dialog Norm displayed when switching to a DD source from XBox, but I don't recall anyone saying much else about it. I looked in the manual and could find no setting/adjustment for Dialog Normalization or similar - anyone want to point me at what this means and/or whether I would want to adjust it, if adjustable?

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Old 04-19-2011, 10:28 PM
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to show off to some friends I hit the Volume on my 808 up to the "Reference" at 82...if you haven't gone that high yet, give it a shot.

The scale between 78>82 seemed VERY pronounced! Kind of like "everybody will want it to sound loud, sweet, powerful, and dramatic Right HERE!"
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litew8 View Post

Statements don't usually end with question marks floating over a head - with quotes of my comments. So I replied. I consider it a mistake soley because the receiver was designed or intended to work with 3D content. That means 3Dtv's. How many 3D tv manufacturers are there for the same year the avr was introduced? How hard could it have been for the receiver manufacturer to have known of a possible IR conflict? We'll never know, but unfortunately - it is now the consumer's problem. You can have a nonchalant attitude about it, but I bet you won't be buying that tv knowing the incompatibility with the receiver you own, even if it were the better brand tv made.

I find it sad because if I were to have bought a 3Dtv, it would've been a Panny.

It reminds me an issue some years ago between the in dash bluetooth handsfree of a Lexus not working well with a Motorola cell phone.
When I emailed both Lexus and Motorola regarding this issue, Lexus answer was that Motorola should not have released this cell phone model before testing it with all car makes and Motorola reply was that Lexus should not have released their in-dash receiver as a universal bluetooth compliant hands free on their vehicles.
Of course It's obvious I bought another cell brand which worked fine with the Lexus . No way I would change the car !!!!!

A year later I installed a Blue Tooth Sony radio on my son's car, and of course it was not well compatible with his top of the line smart phone so I contacted Sony Customer Support and again the ball was passed to RIM, when Sony's tech told me the cell manufacturer should test their smart phones which each brand of hands free devices available in the market.

Now changing the subject to my 3 weeks old TX-NR808, It came with the latest software, it has it's share of once in a while Pandora loosing contact with the server, and a issue noted in one of the posts: the receiver suddenly changing constantly the audio mode and unable to respond to the remote control or the panel buttons. The only way is to unplug and plug it again.

What surprise me more is that the receivers turns on by itself and starts this crazy cycle.

Unfortunately sending it back to the states for warranty would cost me more that what I paid for it !!!!

I believe this is more a software problem that a hardware problem.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:13 AM
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currently the 808 is $699 on amazon and the 708 is $729
does that make any sense?
the 708 is noted by amazon as under review due to inventory or description however, and currently not available.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwwgnojhamcom View Post

currently the 808 is $699 on amazon and the 708 is $729
does that make any sense?
the 708 is noted by amazon as under review due to inventory or description however, and currently not available.

Meh, it happens when the relative demand for the 708 exceeds the supply compared to the 808.

The replacement for the 708, the 709, has been announced so I would imagine the retailers saw that coming and made sure to not have excess stock of the 708 because they won't move as many once the 709 is out.

The 809 has not been announced yet, so retailers are probably taking advantage of the time frame beforehand to offload excess stock with agressive pricing: the 808 is being fairly nicely discounted recently (and thus why I bought one ).

And who knows what "issue" Amazon may be having with their inventory/shipment customer comments: could be anything from a couple of customers in a row getting bashed boxes to accidentally selling refurb units as new. They never seem to fess up.

Just my observations,

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Old 04-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyH View Post

Hello All- I recently wrote about our Onkyo TXNR808 remote not working right with the Panasonic TC-P58VT25 in 3D mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WendyH View Post

Hello All - We responded to the Panasonic Tech's email about our Onkyo TXNR808 remote control not working while the Panasonic TC-P58VT25 was in 3D mode. After we told him we could not move the receiver away from its location under the t.v., which apparently, Panasonic thinks would help, he mailed us an IR Filter to put on the Onkyo. It was about 1" x 1" hard plastic. We sprayed it with a solvent to stick it on the Onkyo's IR location, as it was not self-sticking. The solution worked. Now, we can control volume on the Onkyo while the Panasonic is in 3D mode.

I am still wondering why this situation arose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmir View Post

It reminds me an issue some years ago between the in dash bluetooth handsfree of a Lexus not working well with a Motorola cell phone.

Above posts edited for brevity, just to provide context:

There is simply too much stuff to test to catch all instances of possible interference, especially as new designs hit the market in a short time frame. I would bet that both Onkyo and Panasonic did test in their labs for possible interference from/to all known sources and devices using a IR-blaster mockup (with software-configurable IR signals, including 3D glasses sync flooding) and IR-receptors.

But the lab is not the real world, and although the filter worked for WendyH, it might prevent other folks from using their Onkyos in their particular installations by attentuating the IR signal too much, or by blocking IR from third-party IR controllers like a Harmony. So Onkyo might not want to make the filter part of the standard IR sensor sub-assembly.

Most people seem to get lucky with receiver and 3D xmitter not interfering, and hopefully this problem will diminish as 3D glasses sync methods migrate to using Bluetooth, and perhaps IR filters can get more selective.

It would be interesting to see a study done on how sensitive IR sensors (e.g. in receivers) are to the various IR sources, and how prone specific IR sources are in causing interference in a variety of sensors. We might see whether one manufacturer is the culprit in either category - who's too sensitive, and who's being the bully.

On a completely unrelated note, I ran Audyssey last night but was dis-satisfied with the EQ results: the Onkyo implementation of Audyssey that has the high-freq roll-off ends up sounding too muddy in my relatively-well-treated room, and it wreaks havoc with the nicely EQed BFQ-subwoofer combos. So Audyssey is disabled. Too bad Onkyo doesn't allow the Audyssey Flat curve and that Audyssey won't allow the user to disable EQ on specific channels (like the SW).

I did use the speaker distance and relative levels though, and tweaked the speaker crossovers up a bit (let the SWs do their job).

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Old 04-21-2011, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

Above posts edited for brevity, just to provide context:

There is simply too much stuff to test to catch all instances of possible interference, especially as new designs hit the market in a short time frame. I would bet that both Onkyo and Panasonic did test in their labs for possible interference from/to all known sources and devices using a IR-blaster mockup (with software-configurable IR signals, including 3D glasses sync flooding) and IR-receptors.

But the lab is not the real world, and although the filter worked for WendyH, it might prevent other folks from using their Onkyos in their particular installations by attentuating the IR signal too much, or by blocking IR from third-party IR controllers like a Harmony. So Onkyo might not want to make the filter part of the standard IR sensor sub-assembly.

Most people seem to get lucky with receiver and 3D xmitter not interfering, and hopefully this problem will diminish as 3D glasses sync methods migrate to using Bluetooth, and perhaps IR filters can get more selective.

It would be interesting to see a study done on how sensitive IR sensors (e.g. in receivers) are to the various IR sources, and how prone specific IR sources are in causing interference in a variety of sensors. We might see whether one manufacturer is the culprit in either category - who's too sensitive, and who's being the bully.

On a completely unrelated note, I ran Audyssey last night but was dis-satisfied with the EQ results: the Onkyo implementation of Audyssey that has the high-freq roll-off ends up sounding too muddy in my relatively-well-treated room, and it wreaks havoc with the nicely EQed BFQ-subwoofer combos. So Audyssey is disabled. Too bad Onkyo doesn't allow the Audyssey Flat curve and that Audyssey won't allow the user to disable EQ on specific channels (like the SW).

I did use the speaker distance and relative levels though, and tweaked the speaker crossovers up a bit (let the SWs do their job).

shinksma

I had so many problems in my home multiple room IR repeater setup with interference from all kind of sources specially fluorescent lights and offending TV sets, tried so many types of IR receivers to fight them and ended using blue masking tape as the universal solution, playing with one or two layers in front of the lenses according to the IR noise level and so far got it working.

Bluetooth seems to be the best solution as I recall is a battery hog against the IR.

Unfortunately most TV sets manufacturers are not willing to cope with this kind of problems leaving the small HT providers like Onkyo or Denon to find solutions.

This is the same on all electronic gadgets where the specialized designer/ manufacturers are able to keep track on their labs and provide up to date solutions ( and we pay the price of this R&D )
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:15 AM
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both denon and onkyo have been in the ht business for over 25 years if i was going mate electronics gear, i would go the route of denonxsony/toshiba, onkyoxpanasonic/toshiba/toshiba..

as good as lg and sumsung are they seem to have the unwanted ghost ir conflicts that hampers me buying their products, can't fault their screens though ir control lets them down..

some people luv oppo, can't say much..

sony, been using sony product for over 20years, i can't fault their cd, dvd & bluray players and vcr's and also tv's, wouldn't use their avr's as their amp sections are very weak..

panasonic had a chance to lay with their stuff over the years can't fault them

toshiba, is the old grey horse that never seems to die, pretty rock solid in dvd and tv screens from what i've seen..

for avr's it is usually a 2 horse race between denon and onkyo when talking features for price scale, then you have the dark horse of the industry pioneer and yamaha to contend with, as their products are also good..

marantz who were once good in the avr market sadly due to amp issues less people buy them..

with the amount of netwoek products out it's making the older generation avr's become obsolete..
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by robmir View Post

Bluetooth seems to be the best solution as I recall is a battery hog against the IR.

My 3D glasses use Bluetooth instead of IR, and the batteries seem to last forever. Even if they drained quickly, it wouldn't be a big deal since they're rechargeable. I definitely think Bluetooth is the way to go. Hopefully, all manufacturers will start going that route.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:19 AM
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im having the lockup issue as was brought up on page 47. keeps resetting back to the cbl/sat output. no other buttons work. if i pull the plug from the wall it sometimes works for a little while then resets back to cbl/sat. remote wont work either. clearing the memory does nothing to help the issue.

if i hold down the input i want while turning it on it stays on that input but cant change volume or anything still.

Just the same happened to me this morning, plus it keep cycling through the DSP modes so I had to do the hard reset and it seems to be fixed.

It's a shame that today receiver's behave more like a computer running on Window Millenium than a plain audio amplifier
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TiVoHD View Post

My 3D glasses use Bluetooth instead of IR, and the batteries seem to last forever. Even if they drained quickly, it wouldn't be a big deal since they're rechargeable. I definitely think Bluetooth is the way to go. Hopefully, all manufacturers will start going that route.

Agree 100% but IR is way cheaper so guess which is the manufacturer "best" choice ?
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Old 04-21-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmir View Post


Just the same happened to me this morning, plus it keep cycling through the DSP modes so I had to do the hard reset and it seems to be fixed.

It's a shame that today receiver's behave more like a computer running on Window Millenium than a plain audio amplifier

My 808 was working fine until last Thursday when the remote stopped working. Not the actual remote unit but the ability for the receiver to act on commands. Nothing. After a lot of troubleshooting including calls to Onkyo and Cruchfield I resigned myself to the reality of having to send my 100 some odd day old receiver to Michigan for warranty repair. No warranty services near me. I decided not to wait to get it back and be without a receiver so I am now using a Marantz 6005 in my HT. Not as many bells and whistles as the 808 but plenty for what I need and hopefully less to go wrong. So far in the few days I've used the Marantz I'm very happy with it. Now to send in the onkyo for repair. Just before the Marantz arrived the 808 suffered a total meltdown and.now no longer responds to commands using any buttons on the receiver. It turned itself on and reset all configuration settings on it's own. But still won't accept any function commands including turning off. Maybe the logic board is bad. Just like on a computer.

Bob

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Old 04-21-2011, 08:25 PM
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I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong thread, but I was wondering if you guys can please provide me with some guidance / expertise re: proper speaker hookup?

The house I bought came with pre-wired 4 sets of speakers (all on 1st floor):
1. Kitchen = 2 ceiling speakers (AudioSource AS6c @ 100W / 8 ohm)
2. Office = same as kitchen
3. Front of the house = 2 outdoor speakers (Hometech, not sure about the specs)
4. Rear of the house = same as front

The wires that come out of the wall are 4-conductor (red, black, white and green) and I was able to test the speakers through my small stereo system and the speakers work fine. So here is my question: how do I exactly hook these speakers to my Onkyo TX-NR808 receiver? All four sets of speakers have volume knobs so the volume can be controlled "remotely," which I find to be a neat feature and also wired correctly.

I read in the manual that the 808 has additional Zones, but can someone please explain what exactly does this mean? The way I understand it (or at least hope is the case) is that these additional Zones can be used to play music using different source (though not sure if it can be done simultaneously)? For example, I can listen to Sirius/Pandora through Zone 2 (say outside speakers) while watching the movie in my living room. Is this correct? If not, is it possible to achieve it?

For my main HT setup, I'm running 4 x Polk Monitor 70 II, CS-20 II (center) and PSW505 (sub), so most of the "main" inputs on the 808 are already in use. Additionally, as I have mentioned, what I hope to achieve is to have three separate "entertainment areas" (living room via main speakers; kitchen/office using ceiling speakers; and outside speakers). Again, is this possible and how do I properly hook up the speakers? Do I need an amp?

Thx in adv!
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:59 AM
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best to talk too previous owner to what setup he had in place in each area...

in the way of components...

your problem can have many solutions depending on who you ask, unless there a detail wiring schematics of the home you'll be pissing in the winds to find out what was installed there...

imo if the previous owner hasn't created a list of what cable was installed chances it was an illegal install..
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